Having to rely on an employer for food and shelter is retarded
How many boot lickers got rabies from this statement?
How many of you agree this system is broken?
How many of you are indocrinated sheep that can't question what you've grown up knowing? (Probably the majority since the majority tend to "normalize" anything. Sort of how in the past, cp used to be acceptable. Like in rome or some shit. I forgot, but you get the idea. People tend to be sheep and just "accept" society for what it is instead of questioning things).
Discuss amongst yourselves. Do you think a society structured in such a way that basically forces you to be a bitch of some sociopath just so you can obtain a means to food and shelter as being complete dog shit that needs to change or are you a conformist boot licker?
The system currently means you CAN'T rely on an employer. However, particularly in the US, the culture has moved onto seeing employment as a virtue and a necessity in it's own right, instead of as a means to an end. So one's fellow citizens shame into compliance as the employers take advantage. There used to be strong unions. There used to be the idea that work was an equal trade. There used to be the idea that people worked to live, not lived to work. We're as much to blame as the fat cats.
Tyler Gray
What u gonna do about it u fuck
My father escaped socialism, moved to europe and in 10 years built a house worth 5mil $
If u cant do shit then keep complaining
In the end ure just same stupid sheep as capitalist slaves
At least u have internet to spread your hate huh
Anthony Long
I find a system that functions through basically just consumerism/sales to be wonky as fuck.
I also find it stupid as fuck how businesses are created to maximize profits, NOT to give people a means to survival. Like what the fuck even is that?
There's no real option to just saying "fuck this shit". This society traps you. Too bad we can't just grow our own food and have survival based on OURSELVES rather than on the MERCY of a sociopath. Some say "be an entreprenuer!" Like it's so easy. Most fail and even if you succeed, you just perpetuate the system and make others your bitch unless you have a sole proprietorship.
You have to change your personality and become a cum licker conformist in order to satisfy employers which you do because you need money for food and shelter. You have to become a "yes man" bitch.
It's dog shit. What's worse is that businesses are also not created to help people. They do the opposite for the most part. They are created to leech off of people's labor through sales of their products or services.
But of course, most people don't question it because mammals are all basically sheep and only a few are black sheep
Jonathan Ross
>If u cant do shit then keep complaining
Lmao retard. You're father first of all got lucky. Most people won't see that kind of money no matter how much work they put in, dumbass. Simple logic.
Secondly, YOU are leeching off of your father's success. Get off your fucking high horse, child. Grow the fuck up and stop leeching off your rich father, dumbass.
Caleb Nelson
social market economy with a universal basic income is the way out of this global hellhole, capitalism has catapulted us forward but is not sustainable in a pure form or alone and neither should we give up a free market
Andrew Bailey
UBI is government life support for consumerism. It provides an excuse for companies to pay ever lower wages yet still have customers. It's a terrible idea.
Evan Butler
It seems to have cretaed more buying power in Alaska and they've had ubi for over 30 years. They wouldn't have kept it for that long if it were a failure so you're basically wrong there.
Ubi + universal health care = more power to people. You won't NEED an emplpyer as much for your survival. It won't be as cut throat to be able to survive.
Secondly, people will be able to job hop more so I don't buy the "decreases wages" part.
My only real concern is how it will affect the cost of living, but at the end of the day, if Alaska has had it for over 30 years, it should be safe to assume the citizens got more buying power so I think it would work out every where else as well in America.
Isaac Smith
look man I just want the option, for myself in the most lazy and selfish way but ultimately for everyone, to be able to not work at all and still survive and have food and shelter - but then to be able to engage in the luxuries and ratrace of consumerism as I can or want to opt in, you know? I just think that's a good balance
Julian Collins
>Secondly, people will be able to job hop more so I don't buy the "decreases wages" part.
To add to that, I basically mean your average worker will be able to afford to become more picky which is a GOOD thing.
Brandon Lee
Alaska's still tied to other states with some federal labour laws in play etc. When UBI is the only option, there's no reason for companies not to lobby the government to ensure UBI goes up so their wages dont have to.
Jonathan Collins
With ubi, people can be more picky and simply say "fuck off" to employers that pay low which will force employers to have to pay more.
Also, the burden shouldn't ALL be on the employers either anyways. I hate employers, but let's be real. Some employers (such as those starting out) can't afford to pay a lot.
Think of it like this.
30% of jobs pay hardship wages in metropolos cities (can't move out on your own). I assume it's worse everywhere else considering metropolis cities are where most jobs are created
With ubi, that 30% will probably decrease since before, what those jobs paud wouldn't be enough. Now with ubi, it can be enough.
It will create more livable wages and middle class wages INDIRECTLY. More buying power and more negotiating power between an employer and employee.
Nathaniel Brown
When the only (entry level/unskilled) jobs available are low wage, tho, it's subsist on UBI or accept poor wages.
As for employers who can't afford to pay decent wages... then they aren't doing well enough to hire people. They don't have a right to people's labour. They should have to pay a reasonable rate for it.
UBI is a bandaid not a fix.
The "indirectly" argument sounds remarkably similar to the "trickle down" arguments to be honest
Jayden Thomas
So to add, ubi = more jobs (which I hate but for now, it's the only way to live), more livable wages (thanks to the ubi itself), universal health care added to this will make it so you won't have to work full time in order to get health care (it seriously is retarded as hell needing an employer to provide you benefits. It's also funny considering the u.s. is the only 1st world country without universal health care), more negotiating power for average people as they won't need employers as much for survival, etc.
Ubi definitely looks like an actual improvement to the current state of this shitastic country.
Tyler King
I didnt care about refugees when i was making lots of money and i dont give a fuck about them now Im making barely any.
let them drown tbh.
Luis Murphy
>As for employers who can't afford to pay decent wages... then they aren't doing well enough to hire people. They don't have a right to people's labour. They should have to pay a reasonable rate for it.
100% disagree. Are you for raising the minimum wage by chance? Because that's a terrible idea that would basically make it so new businesses can't be started which means less jobs which means less people can actually survive.
It's Vetter to have shit jobs AND UBI because those hardship wage jobs can now become livable wage jobs with UBI. Think about that.
>UBI is a bandaid not a fix. It's a step in the right direction. You can't expect one thing to fix literally EVERYTHING. That's naïve.
>The "indirectly" argument sounds remarkably similar to the "trickle down" arguments to be honest
Illegals make up like 3.3% of the population. People who blame immigrants for the shit state of america are ignorant.
Cameron Wood
Also, just think logically about it when I said "indirectly".
Say you have a shit job making 20k. You can't move out. With ubi, that extra 1k a month now made you have a salary of 32k. Minor inflation will probably occur, but you will probably have more buying power regardless and with that extra buying power can possibly make it so now you CAN move out even WITH that 20k shit job.
That has NOTHING to do with trinkle down economics. Literally a completely different subject altogether.
Jackson Parker
They really don't have a right to workers tho. If they're not earning money, what right do they have to my labour? If they want it, they can pay me a reasonable rate for it. If they can't afford to do that, then there's no good reason to be in business.
Raising the minimum wage is fine if done very carefully and gradually. You can't just jack it up by 20% or 50%, you have to do phased increases over several years. It does cause inflation, but done gradually it's not catastrophic, and the inflation doesn't match the increase overall because not everyone is on minimum wage.
Frankly, new businesses that can't make money SHOULD fail. Wages are a fundamental expense a company has to deal with. We don't (usually) suppress the prices of costs of goods to companies just so companies can move more product. We don't and shouldn't subsidize unviable businesses. It's a dumb thing to for lots of reasons. And if you're in a UBI system, then the wages *aren't* letting you survive, the UBI is. So the wage ends up being treated as a privilege.
UBI has elements of trickle down in that it's a subsidy to companies. You're artificially depressing their expenses and subsidizing the cost of labour.
Your employer can now ignore your cost of living arguments for wage increases. Congratulations, you've locked yourself into that wage. Hell, they can now let your wage decrease in real terms (relative to inflation) because you've effectively "got a raise" from the government already.
Bentley Jackson
Oh and because the same thing is happening across the economy - literally every single worker got that "raise" - it won't help to go somewhere else because the overall wages across the market are now depressed. Your bargaining power went down overall.
As I mentioned, when the shock effects of minimum wage increases are reduced, inflation is a solved problem with minimum wage increases. Why would I care about the "burden to employers"? Jobs per se are not the goal. Living standards and income are. Jobs are one metric (and not the only one) we use to measure how we're doing in achieving that. Jobs are not an inherent good. Employers have no right to labour. None. Zero. Zip. They have the option of purchasing your labour, that's all.
I live in a country with a relatively generous minimum wage, a quite healthy economy, that survived 2008 fine, and which has a decent welfare and public health system. Without UBI. Sure there's problems - there's no such thing as a perfect system - but it shows that minimum wage isn't an inherently bad thing.
Wyatt Collins
Bump to give time to respond
Jacob White
>So, we examine the scenario where each person in the U.S. receives $1,100 per year, for a total cost of $330 billion annually. Unlike the larger-scale UBI considered below, which must be financed by either a larger deficit or distorting tax, Alaska’s program can be considered to be “externally financed” since the revenue comes from payments for rights to mineral extraction. Hence, we model this transfer without considering additional debt or taxes.
Yang wants to use technology the way Alaska uses oil
> As a result, labor becomes relatively more scarce, leading to a slight increase in wages, Ubi has lead Alaska to increased wages >thereby offsetting some of the reduction in labor supply that helps form compensation.
Also, next sentence says gdp decreased but really, I think gdp doesn't do a good job in demonstrating how a society is doing anyways.
>Why would I care about the "burden to employers"? Jobs per se are not the goal. Living standards and income are
You are thinking about it wrong. I HATE employers, but it's stupid to have to rely on them 100% and ubi would relieve having to 100% rely on an employer.
Also, minimum wage doesn't even help most people at all. What about those making above minimum wage but still struggling? It does nothing but raise the cost for them and create less jobs. I would argue it's a worse idea than how you view ubi
> As a result, labor becomes relatively more scarce, leading to a slight increase in wages, >thereby offsetting some of the reduction in labor supply that helps form compensation Reread that paragraph. It's explaining why it didnt go down *as much* as other metrics. Not that it didn't go down. it did. It's prefixed by > The reason that household compensation falls by less than total hours worked
Minimum wage raises the wage floor. In that regard it does slightly push up wages up the chain. It preserves the economic incentive to actually work too.
Isaac Rivera
More minimum wage means less jobs because less businesses would be a thing. Even if it DID translate to more pay on all levels (which it probably wouldn't for every job), it ALSO gives employers more power (as you would still 100% need them for survival while ubi gives you less of a shackle).
Robert Hall
"less jobs" isn't inherently a good or bad outcome though. Having a large number of underpaying jobs is not necessarily preferable to a smaller number of higher paying jobs. In fact, one of the worst things to happen to the labour market in the last century was the push to get women in the workplace. That effectively nearly doubled the labour pool, depressing wages, leading to a situation where dual incomes are basically necessary to survive - more jobs, but not a comparable increase in living standards and real household income.
However, from an employer perspective, this allowed the real cost of labour to decrease substantially. (I'm not saying women working is a bad thing btw - just the effect the change in the labour market had)
Jobs, per se, are not something to aim for. Stop thinking in terms of jobs as the end goal. They're a means to an end. UBI locks you into a cycle where government *has* to ensure businesses make enough profit, to pay enough tax, to heavily subsidise wages...
