Need a h-hand Anonymous?
Whether it's life advice, h-help with neuropsychopharmacological interactions, or just a d-desire to talk, I'm here for you.
Don't s-suffer in s-silence.
Need a h-hand Anonymous?
Whether it's life advice, h-help with neuropsychopharmacological interactions, or just a d-desire to talk, I'm here for you.
Don't s-suffer in s-silence.
Other urls found in this thread:
anekiho.me
youtu.be
anekiho.me
twitter.com
What is this fake stutter bullshit you fucking larping faggot kill yourself
W-what can I d-do to help you today, Anonymous
Is that u Alice?
d-d-dumb tranny
OP, I'd like my dick sucked. Can you help?
I have sexual fantasies about abducting, raping, and torturing.
that you, tranny fuck? still doling out your shitty autistic device to foot worshippers? haven't killed yourself out of shame yet?
you can't help me when I'm my problem. you can't help me commit to my dreams and aspirations when I know I'm incompetent.
How are you stuttering on "h-hand" and "h-help" and third grader words, but are perfectly able to say "neuropsychopharmacological interactions" just fine?
I have a fetish for long glossy french nails. Where could this stem from?
Yes, w-what can I do for you today?
Nope
Im pretty bored most of the time, but i dont feel there's anything worth my time available to me and i usually end up settling for something trivial.
I've been told I need to see other people more, since being isolated can lead to that kind of apathy, but I don't think it helped a lot when I did. I don't feel like I can connect to most people either.
Wat do, other than anhero.
He's just trying to be cute, but it comes off as retarded.
I s-sure can't MAKE you commit to such things, but I c-can definitely help you with them
that's just what a tranny would say
she
since youre so smart you should be able to figure out its just to seem quirky. does everyone know? yes. does it still work? kinda. just like paying compliments to people.
Alright.
W-well, would you say you aren't f-finding pleasure in things you previously found pleasure in?
My dream is to be a hard working man. Right now, I'm a lazy sack of shit alcoholic with no job that live3s on the side of a mountain about 10 miles away from any employer and no transportation money. Now show me your ass.
W-what skills do you have?
So you just gonna fuck off, or should I start the gorebomb?
Do you feel like you're a drain on society? That you're just wasted air and space?
>W-well, would you say you aren't f-finding pleasure in things you previously found pleasure in?
Definitely. I gather this isn't all that uncommon in my generation. My vidya games and anime don't seem to do it much for me anymore. Sure there's a rare gem here and there, but mostly it's just to pass time. But if you only live to PASS the time, isn't that the same as slowly killing yourself. So yes.
Feel f-free to start the gorebomb, I'll j-just be here again later today then tomorrow
>Do you feel like you're a drain on society? That you're just wasted air and space?
I guess I am, but I don't feel the way you put it. I don't care about society in the least, and I don't care that I'm a burden.
You asked for it faggot
I have an uncontrollable urge to shoot my load into girls (boys) calles Alice. What can be done about this?
Don't know, as I d-don't know anyone matching that
guess nevada lost their job again
>That s-sounds like anhedonia to me dear. T-that's a symptom of depression. You might w-want to talk to a doctor, if you've b-been suffering like this for a while.
Idk, last time I talked to a doctor about it all I got was prescription for meds that dazed me, and a reference to a psychologist (or what it's called in english). Idk, I felt the psychologist turned out to be a waste of money (really expensive and getting nowhere).
I appreciate the advice nonetheless,
W-what medications did you get?
And I mean, that's j-just the symptomology as I s-see it. That's anhedonia: an inability to enjoy things you p-previously did.
There are many things you can do about it, b-but a doctor is your best shot. Simple t-things you can do at home include exercise, working on small projects to boost your dopamine output, and living more healthfully.
Well, for example, one of the fantasies revolves around a girl I went to high school with. She's very underweight, potentially anorexic, and that makes her even sexier to me. But I fantasize about abducting her and keeping her chained up in a cabin or basement or wherever. In my fantasies, I starve her and anything she gets from the small amount of food to water contains my cum. I punch, slap, and kick her around. Stub cigarettes on her body. Burn her with hot objects. Force things inside her and up her ass. Rape her. Nearly anything my mind come up with to torture her and cause her slim little body pain brings me great sexual pleasure.
What is this all about and where does it come from?
wow you sure saved the internet there buddy
I don’t need anything today Alice. I’ve just missed u for the past year or so. I hope ur doin good. Do u still keep schedule?
Claiming
Again, fetishes develop at r-random. Could b-be anything from a childhood skinimax video t-to simply deep seated power issues.
Who is Alice and what do I need to know about her? A quick rundown, pls.
Schedule is c-currently 8AM EST
are farts stored in the tummy or butt?
What are some anti anxiety/depressants that don't make me fat.
I'm Alice and I j-just try to help people on Yea Forums.
Nothing important.
Colon.
RPing attention whore that fancies herself a therapist but really she just creates circlejerks with ronery codependant weebs
It is that sort of thread because I'm in love with her.
Beta blockers are good at b-blocking the physical effects of anxiety, m-making it much easier to cope with anxiety, w-without too many physical side effects.
S-sorry, I don't like nor want attention
It's n-not though, and loving a figment of your imagination or a c-character on a screen is n-neither healthy n-nor appropriate for an adult
My sister died not to long ago. How do I deal with this survivor's guilt? How do I stop feeling like I should have been the one to die?
Why not just use Alpha blockers?
Your behavior suggests otherwise! You disgusting larping weeaboo faggot!
I love her because I literally am her and I don't feel so alone anymore.
Beta blockers h-have less side effects and w-work better in some studies. It's an area of active research.
S-sorry, existing isn't desiring attention
So is it normal to have these fantasies?
I can down half a bottle of vodka in one sitting without falling over or passing out. I can be social, but I'm also way too much of an asshole/self absorbed to get a long with people. I get irrationally mad at people who don't say hi back to me. I used to work on cars in my free time but after 7 cars that all ended way too soon after I bought them, I have given up on that. I used to take care of the house I live in until I ran out of money to fix it. I've got basic electrical and construction skills as well as being a quick learner when it comes to that stuff.
Now I'm on the path to becoming a horder. I've tried contacting my doctor for help, I'm on some ativan and adderall, but it's not helping. I don't like how I feel on the adderall, but it's my only source of income every month so I don't really want to get off it. (I'm able to get like 400 for 60 20mg tabs) I'm incapable of phone calls for whatever reason. I have an anxiety attack when I think of making phone calls, and when I take the atavan I just do nothing and I'm fine with it. I wish there was a drug inbetween adderall and ativan.
I'm still waiting on ass pics, btw.
Your aloof, enthusiastic affectation isn't fooling anyone! People that have been around for more than a day know what a piece of shit you actually are sweetie pie honeybunch!
not OP, but afaik dark fantasies are often common if youre in a dark place in your life emotionally. So common may be a big word to use, but its not all that uncommon either.
Aye or nay?
it is though. it does fool some. and i myself have been around a long time, but im apparently not as 1337 4channer as you, since i dont know about this character.
I'm sorry, I'm so so sorry to hear that Anonymous. Someone you've had around you your entire life...that's awful. I'm sorry. I know nothing I can say can make that better.
But Anonymous, you need to take care of yourself. Of course surviving isn't your fault; I know that, you know that. But your brain is always going to find ways to torment you; that's what it does, to try and make it easier to survive, to try and inspire you to go kill that lion. Of course, we're not on the savannah any more, so that instinct is just painful, not useful, but that's where it comes from.
I would recommend you find a group therapy that deals with survivor guilt. Find other people like you, share that pain around and comfort each other. That's the best thing you can do for that sort of hurt: know that you aren't alone and know people who have similar experiences.
Most major cities have such group therapy sessions, and if you cannot afford to do such a thing or need help in any other way, please contact me:
Email: [email protected]
Steam: rukiarcx or Aneki Margatroid
Discord: Alice#8225
Twitter/Twitch: CeltyPlays
Chat: anekiho.me
I'll help you pay for it.
I h-hope you get through this Anonymous. I'm h-here for you every step of the way.
>I'm sorry, I'm so so sorry to hear that A
I had to stop reading to laugh
You're not sorry
And there's the other shoe. Advertising for her cringey fucking Twitch channel. You're human garbage babycakes!
I w-wouldn't say it's normal, but it is n-not clinical.
Odd that I've d-done this for 8 years and n-no one can actually point to my wrongdoing then
>her
She identifies as female. I respect trans rights, even if she is a piece of shit!
Is seems like most of the time a patient would explain his situation and the practician would try to simplify it as much as possible "so you were happy and now you're not anymore" "So you are afraid of changing your lifestyle".
Is it because most situation comes from the same root or because you want to start from very simple and go deeper into the situation ?
Oh w-wow, we've got some honest to god psychers in t-the audience! T-tell me what color I'm thinking of
she isn't trans
How does the bottom of her bargain pumps taste?!
This
Blonde hair color
That w-would depend on the practician, b-but I often find it useful to simplify so both parties understand the situation fully
it's just a fact dude. sorry you can't understand that same as you can't seem to actually provide evidence for her wrongdoing.
Her farts smell good?! You enjoying that aroma cocksucker?!
Ah, Nevada got fired. Stealing too much, buddy?
Why does feel-good music piss me the fuck off?
I need a mixture of a live in social worker and that drug to get a slap in the face.
There's no such thing as trans rights, only human rights. People have the right to call themselves whatever they want. I have the right to call them whatever the fuck I want. Respect is earned not given, shit wad.
aren't you the cocksucker, you tranny loving bitch who cant keep a job?
Thanks user, sounds relevant.
You can't go around calling children motherfuckers now can you? There is such a thing as situational rights.
Not your s-style I guess? Are you f-feeling alright?
My p-pleasure.
W-well, I cannot offer you t-that, though I'd b-be happy to offer you the slap
Survivor's Guilt is pretty bad sometimes. Some people in WW2 used their buddies as human meat shields while the Germans were cutting them down
>Not your s-style I guess? Are you f-feeling alright?
I'm feeling a-okay. But when I wake up my mom changes the TV to Good Morning America and they constantly play feel-good music and completely ruins my day.
I w-would ask her to perhaps play something else or t-turn it down?
That's how she wakes me up
S-sure, but it isn't as if she c-can't turn something ELSE on if you HATE it.
him
her
This is the literal shit they play on their morning programme
I make sure the TV is low before going to sleep
to whom it may concern
to actually answer the question, I stopped after my cousin shit on my floor and stole my camera after breaking into my house. He was the closest thing to a father figure I had and he helped me source out an e500 in good condition. only needed some minor front end repair, until some fucking Mexican plowed into my ass and totaled the car I had JUST FUCKING BOUGHT. AGAIN. I've gotten to the point where everything I do and touch falls apart, my relationships, my house, my cars, my life. Can't do nothin right. So here I drink. Until I find a trap that will live under my bed.
(The adderall feels like it's constantly throttling me. Like i'm a glass of water and I'm on the edge of over flowing. Not really anxious but laser eyes.)
That's got nothing to do with rights. That's fucking common sense. You shouldn't be getting in legal trouble for doing it, as the constitution overrides most of those stupid laws. Someone SHOULD be able to beat your retarded ass silly if you do though.
T-that's awful, Anonymous. I'm s-sorry to hear that. But I'm f-fairly sure the answer is not a trap who lives with you.
Good morning! I lost my job and I couldn't be in a better mood. Hope you're just as happy!
All I want is a trap house though
alice?? do you still cook? are tea time threads dead?
I d-do cook! Just missed last Friday!
S-sadly not but I'm happy you are happy!
W-why?
gay
Nae nae
post kitchen
because once you get here you'll never go back ;)
Stop giving Alice attention.
fag fag?
I'm n-not a trap.
No t-thank you, I'm on my way to work.
This. Instead, t-tell me more about yourselves
So you welcome a savage beating if you call someone the wrong pronoun? I'm comfortable with that, but I don't think you really believe that.
God you're such a total fucking weeb faggot
Anything I c-can help you with today?
My favorite was when she claimed not to be a weeb because she was actually japanese. That was a fun trend
Kill yourself
S-sorry, that won't help you
Why not? You usually seem pretty chipper. I figure you have a lot to deal with but you deal with it well.
Thank you though! I really am relieved. My old boss was a huge dickhead. I'm trying to land a job in a hospital right now, and in the meantime I'm volunteering.
lmao oh boy the delusion knows no bounds
post kitchen with toaster
Ah, j-just not feeling it today
what the fuck is this thread
a get thread
Love and cheer and m-mental help
>one off
shieeeet
Theeere's that passive aggressive, repressed anger response I'm accustomed to seeing!
S-sorry, if there's one thing I d-do to do, it's repress myself
Unconditional love is worthless
Do to do, hah! Nice work, phone
Strong disagree
kitchen
Yes? You'll h-have to wait for my cooking thread or video
Well, I hope you feel better and I hope work treats you well. Happy alice > sad alice.
That same hospital, actually. They have a thing for students, and since after I finish my major I'm going to med school, I figure maybe this will help me get my feet in the water. I've actually never done any volunteer work before, so I'm not sure what to expect!
Lots of hard work if m-my experience is anything to go by
when is that? you changed schedules?
wow, how is calling a kid a motherfucker as bad as calling a faggot a man? Well, then, it's situational. If you keep doing it on purpose then sure, you should get your ass beat, if they can. Now, if they start swinging because they look like a troglodyte and expect me to know they're a female, they're at fault and deserve their ass beating. I believe that the community should police itself instead of relying on the government.
Friday at 8pm est
I don't need help. I'm not a sociopathic larping weeaboo faggot like you!
wtf why only fridays? are you the same alice that gave kamina glasses or are you like the 7th one?
Given you j-just accused me of a bunch of things without evidence, I'll go ahead and say you c-clearly aren't well adjusted
T-the very same
dude, you're still pushing this nonsense? just cut your balls off already and move to france.
>I'm a well adjusted human being
Well adjusted human beings don't harass people in Yea Forums to fuel weird ego boners.
S-sorry, biological female here
This
You seem to be infatuated with insulting people that you view as inferior instead of being humble and polite. Why? Do you get off on it? I'm curious. They just want to help, is this how you treat everyone who helps you? How have you gotten anywhere without help?
s-s-sorry buddy, the dick make you a guy
Alright honest question
Do you guys think Alice will ever break free from her mental psychopathy?
I d-dont have one
Do you think Ikaros will ever fuck Tomoki?
i call bs, original 4th alice said they were hard to find
Yes
Take a deep whiff of them weeb farts anons. Smell good? Smell like perpetual virginity?
I h-have no idea who "original fourth Alice" is. I'm the second.
Don't you read books?
No Tomoki dies at the end of the manga
Out
post proof, kitchen
Again, I'm w-walking to work. I literally cannot do that.
out..?
Out. Now.
i have no where to go
I wanted to go to Alice's chat but I think Angelic is still mad at me
Fucking weirdo.
No duh dipshit now go away
Show feminine benis!!!
I only h-have a vagina, soery
I am now Alice3
Nope
I'm here to give advice
He's been out of the closet for a long while.
oh boy circlejerking faggots that think Yea Forums is a social forum dragging their eDrama from personal chats to this board. the new tripfags, who of course are the proudest form of cancer
and handies...
Nvm something came up
I will leave for now.
Goodbye
Your penis?
HEy psych pls help, i am a retarded fucking idiot, wat do?
Thank Christ hallaluia
Re-read a book
He can't read it in the first place, how is he supposed to read it again?
Not really, no. Why are you so obsessed with sex? Why do you think you're a better person than someone who hasn't had sex? Just because they're not out getting fucked doesn't mean they're not better than you. So, again, why are you full of hatred and animosity? Life is short, it's better to be happy and content.
Because nevads isn't getting any either, due to fat
You think this sociopath has the keys to happiness and contentment? LMAO she (maybe) is a repressed, delusional cunt that will probably never be happy which is why she has to affect this sunshiney disposition for all you fags. I have friends, I have a job I like, I play music. I'm not a solid gold player but I get girls. Trust me I'm much closer to happiness and contenment than this miserable larping weeb trash is.
I love how you call her a bunch of things with no evidence but also LMAO you try to hype yourself up after spending literally an hour doing this? Hahaha! That's the best joke I've heard all month!
G-good to hear life is going so well for you
him
Her
What makes you think this all I'm doing? This is just a diversion. Somebody has to call out this fuckin sperg or people might mistakenly take their shitty fucking advice
That's not evidence of anything but you being obsessed
Him
Prove ut
Haven't seen any shitty advice do you have examples
Provo Utah?
How are they a sociopath? You're throwing large words around that you don't fully understand. From talking with you, I can peg you as a narcissist, but pegging someone as a sociopath for starting a psychology thread on Yea Forums doesn't make much sense. Then you go off listing all these things that literately everyone has/has the ability to grasp like it's some sort of bragging point. This is some severe social ineptness that you can only find on Yea Forums. I bet you're the guy who's friends exclude him from some of the larger meet ups. None of this, though, changes the fact that you're still on Yea Forums. That was MADE to discuss anime.
I wonder what sort of training you have in psychology and behavioral studies. I'd love to hear you give advise on some of the bleeding hearts in this thread Mr. Nobody.
Nah son, obsession would be coming to this weeb fuck's defense because you're such a ronery sperf that you think it's your friend
like this dumb cunt
or this one
Nah it's attacking someone rather than ignoring them lmao
Met this amazing girl, thought that things would work out, but she rarely checks her phone for messages (her friends also complain about this) and I've been left on delivered for five days, which is far longer than usual. I've realised that I'm wasting time on her when there are other options, but still, could use some advice with getting over the feels.
Im so scared of intimacy i cant even get myself to fuck a hooker. Wat do mr headdoctor?
Where. T-that does sound rough. And I assume you talked to her and she basically just dismissed you?
Mrs, and I w-wouldnt go looking for intimacy with hookers. But t-tepl.me about how you feel Anonymous, when you attempt to hire one. What stops you?
Any advice for being attracted to minors? Or should I just any hero
I'm berating you for talking shit about weebs on a site who's mascot is a fucking anime character. Get out of here summer.
What, is tyf dead as a doornail?
I w-would seek a medical healthcare professional f-for that. I am not t-trained for that at all.
Aw jeez Rick, don't talk to my sister like that!
If you can give out better advice, why don't you do that instead of shitting on everyone around you with what seems to be the diarrhea verson of words that you're spewing from the asshole planted on your face.
>summer
newfag
I doubt this weeb trash feels attacked. They're probably enjoying the attention which honestly gives me reservations about even saying all this, but you baby birds need to be fed and I guess I have to be the one to do it
Go away Nevada get a job
sniff sniff yummy weeb farts
that's terrible advice they are required to report you
Alice, if no one has told you they love you today, let me just tell you that I love you.
oh boy another ronery weeb that thinks it's their friend
And?
I l-love you too Anonymous
So that's a no on actually being able to do better got it good to know you can't give better advice than someone you are accusing of being a sociopath lmao
I should have seen the signs that you already flushed your brain a long time ago. Sorry for thinking otherwise, carry on and have a lovely day.
sniiiifffff sniff sniff
Problem?
I'm doing great. I'm doing even better now that you're here!
you seem to have a pronounced interest in weeb farts, may I ask what makes them so appealing to you
it's one of those fetishes I just never understood. not that I'm judging, but could you explain it?
G-glad to hear it
sniiiiffff sniiifff sniff oh thank you alice mantroid for your delicious weeb farts they sustain me
Dude, your obsession with weeb farts is unsettling, can you please seek some help for that. It's disgusting.
shit man, if that's what gets you going, more power to you
Met her at a uni leadership camp a couple months back. She doesn't dismiss me when I talk to her, we actually get along very well when face-to-face. Lots of inside-jokes, etc,
and she always hangs around with me whenever we are in the same place. She is also a part of one of my friend groups, and as such we see each other whenever that particular group meets up.
Recently however, I barely see her, as while we tend to hang around in the same places on campus, I attend different days to her due to my schedule.
She made plans to go with me to a museum exhibition over the holidays, however, when those holidays actually came to pass and I asked her about it, she said that she was too busy with stuff. She asked to reschedule it to the upcoming holiday month (around two weeks from now), but now I'm expecting her to be "busy" again, and won't bother messaging her about it anymore.
It just strikes me as weird, because despite being fun and outgoing in person, she always electronically replies (in group chat and private chat) in a one/two-worded manner that doesn't allow extra conversation.
fake
Dear Alice, how do i stop my brother from being a fucking weeb?
Instead of being a doormat, toutchings doll with his cheetos dipped fingers while lurking in the room, he should be out training, drinking and having fun
i miss my brother
Hey man, it's always good to accept your kinks. I'm glad to know that you just have a repressed need to have some hot kinky weeb sex. I bet you're into vore, too.
It s-sounds like she is m-most likely either using you or has higher priorities than you. I w-would express how you feel and give her a chance to change, t-then cut her off.
M-maybe just let your brother be himself unless h-he is harming anyone.
Absolutely nothing! I'm on vacation this week, and today is my day to be lazy and goof off.
Hey Alice, reccently my brother has become an unbearable asshole to me. We used to spend some quality time together, but recently he's started mocking me for what I like instead of supporting me and giving me some advice on how to better myself though subtle messages or by convincing me it was my idea. He's really stupid.
I miss my brother.
Sounds nice
I s-see. How old is he?
\/
how old are you? You seem to be about 12.
Sneak out and join me. I have a place here on the East end of Long Island. You want to go kayaking?
In fucking NYC water? Are you s-serious? Fuuuck my skin is already fucked up! No thank you!
Cheers, I hadn't considered the possibility that she'd be using me. I wouldn't be surprised if she had higher priorities though, she is a very levelheaded person.
I probably won't express how I feel, since I am fine with keeping her as a friend, and that sort of stuff always makes things uncomfortable. Do you have any advice for losing feelings for somebody?
My heart is now broken.
Only t-thing that works is time and ice cream, Anonymous!
good advice for society, terrible advice for the pedophile
Good advice for both.
pedo puts himself in jail for liking jailbait?
how is that good advice. by that logic most of men should hand themselves in today
Why are you unbanned again? Ffs mods
Merely being attracted to children isn't a criminal offense
I'm never banned f-for more than 5 minutes
Ban evasion faggot
W-welcomr to Yea Forums!
Ikr they can’t even get a ip Range ban right
My range is too side
Big*
i love u
Love you too
I dont know what you're talking about
But I'm interested.
she's pretty~
why'd you save that image twice?
I do not want to be pedophile.
not fired, found a better job
I have toenail fungus & I really want to make my toes pretty & pink so I can paint them and trap people better. What should I do?
im not sure but i would love to find out!
i bet they're good
Hahaha fucking came back just to say that? That means you got fired for fucking sure, did you steal too much shit you fucking idiot?
G-good to hear
Can you really make good money as a camgirl/camboy
I d-dont know, seems l-like a saturated market.
cya, can i call u pink Alice?
Their name is ikarous
thank u Alice~
*Squeeze* g-glad to hear it
You wish u cunt, just missed bullying your sorry ass
Sometimes bonds run deep on the internet too ^^
I wish
I wish
I'm back :)
calle me Alice3
Thank you, I love her.
I know that, im just wanting to call them something else
go away
Kekekek Nevada got fired and so he can finally chase Alice across infinity chan again lmao
Go away forever
H-have a good day at work sweety~
I'm not Alice tard
Where do I go?
Why do you want me to go away forever? I just want to help people
oh ok, actually Alice4 technically unless I added in an extra Alice somewhere XD
Sure kid
Forever. Go away.
Lmao he could probably retire and do that if he wanted by now, but its good for him to work so he stays busy and doesn't get too obsessed with pounding traps
Lmao kid go back to masturbating with your own tears over losing a shitty job lmao
Yeah he loves that trap dick too much if you ask me
Adornable
Retire? To what, his parents basement?
Well buddy, dontcha know? You gotta reap what you have sown
Which number can I claim now?
I genuinely want to help people
Where should I go?
I would love to chase alice across infinity chan too but i dont think i could keep up
Why is there someone RPing as me? Also since when did I lose my job?
im worried because cant stop fap ,alwais hornie and i dont care just fap with all
Alright t-that was my thread! If you need further help, contact me in the following ways:
Email: [email protected]
Steam: rukiarcx
Discord: Alice#8225
Chat: anekiho.me
R-remember, home is where the heart is
Away
LMAO He posted in the thread despite already posting in the thread, like we are gonna buy that! Lmao go back to welfare and do not pass go
Okay retard
Hi big dick
You lost your job for real?
hm probably 4 is still open, i havn't heard any plans for any more since the 3rd failed
that foot looks red and irritated. it bugs me thoroughly.
I guess I'll make my own advice threads
Have a good day at work~
Where is the 3rd?
I dont know honestly, they just disappeared, last I could figure was san francisco
No lol
Then I will go with Alice3
okay good, how are you?
are u sure it shouldn't stay reserved qq
Go the fuck away
I guess I'll go with 4th since its my favorite number...
I will go after this thread~ and I will make another one later