What do you think about socialism?

AOC loves you

like the majority of people don't understand it

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just to add on to this.
Capitalism is based on the idea that people will make rational decisions. But even Adam Smith recognize that it's unrealistic.

And modern behavioural economics has proven most people aren't rational.

So capitalism by definition is an inefficient system. And for the past 200 years people have been arguing that the benefits of capitalism was that it's purely the most efficient system.

So socialism helps reduce those inefficiencies, by preventing people from making irrational choices (like not having health insurance).

Socialism means that the government runs everything. That leaves you with nothing that you own, and no say in the matter because socialists put down all opposition.

That’s a society that you want?

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You think unqualified people working in politically aligned groups and using force are more rational than individuals when it comes to decision making?

YOU ARE DELUSIONAL

that's communism

It's pure cancer. As a public service, I'll define some terms:
>socialism: the public/state ownership of the means and distribution of productivity
>welfare: state provision of public goods

Welfare predates modern implementation of capitalist and socialist theory. It is separate from either, therefore public schools/roads/healthcare are not socialist in nature-- they are implementation of welfare. Since socialism in practice distributes nearly everything, it's not really welfare. Welfare has been the most widely implemented under capitalism for two reasons: it is necessary to combat the massive amounts of inequality that is inherent to capitalist systems; and capitalism is far more productive than socialism, so there is far more wealth to distribute.

Marx himself feared the hyper-productive nature of capitalism-- he advocated a subsistence living, a reversion away from most public goods. If that's what you want, go live off the grid in a commune. As for the rest of us, we'll become steadily more wealthy as a society, and hopefully find a way to battle the inevitable evils of capitalism (most evident in the rise of tech monopolies that basically run our lives at present).

countries with public healthcare have a statistically healthier population than those without it (on average), and there are significant economic benefits.

And you still have democracy. You elect politicians who then manage socialist policies (that already exist successfully in multiple countries).

>90% of the people on the left just want to reign in capitalisms worst impulses.
That's because only the furthest 8% of the left are actual socialists. The rest just want a strong welfare state. Which is fine.

It’s kinda crazy how all the people running socialist countries don’t have to stand and wait in a bread line or petition the government a dozen times for medical treatment for their daughters, but the people who do not run that same socialist society have to do all of that.

And yet capitalism allows both of them to get what they want.

Pretty fucking weird..

for the record im in favour of socialised healthcare

but the real point of competing economic systems is to create greater growth. growth wins over everything. and the simple capitalist mechanisms of growth far, far surpass anything else in history. that's led to the destruction of the planet but still, that's what the whole political competition is really about. central planning can't really create much dynamic growth

The closest would be 'gov't ownership', 'abolishing private property' is the end goal, but that happens in the communist utopia (or shitty third world countries)

Why should I have to pay for your medical bills?

I would say destruction of the planet is a pretty terrible tradeoff. Capitalism works for short-term gain with terrible long-term costs.

Mixing capitalism with socialism to mitigate the problems with capitalism is the best way to solve these problems. A purely competitive system will always overvalue the short-term. And that's not really a great policy.

you don't. you receive money as a result of the wealth of the society around you. and that society may decide that the price for that is taxes to go to healthcare. better healthcare typically enlarges the economy of the country

i agree the destruction is a bad consequence

but socialism is really just another economic theory/system which is intended to create maximum growth. so the debate between the two systems is not one of industrialisation vs ecology

>Canadian/European socialism is great.

Neither are socialist. kys.

Why should I go to a McDonalds-quality clinic when I can just use the insurance that I pay for to go get quality healthcare from a private vendor? Why should my tax money benefit you?

I pay taxes for infrastructure because when I drive over a bridge I want to know it’s not going to collapse. I pay taxes for police because they’re supposed to protect me, enforce the law and maintain order in society. I pay for the military because they protect this country.

What do you do that’s so great that I have to pay for your medical bills?

Small countries, with similar racial and cultural makeup, and very little power on the world stage, under the peace dividend of stable borders and a great lack of multiple common invasions.

Look, I can tell you barely have a surface education on politics and economics, so I am going to stop wasting my time. Kindly piss off.

Okay, we should adopt their policies. Which uh...yeah that's socialist man.

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I just explained it, so read what I said. The idea is that universal healthcare benefits the economy. The economy grows and you live in a better society. Aside from that, a lot of people think it's a right. Good healthcare protects you from living in a sick and dangerous society.

and by the way, you can still get private healthcare if you prefer

we should be more social and helpful towards each other and get rid of the mighty jew banking company

I think the addiction epidemic directly combats communism and is probably the reason the DEA continues to say that opiates are safer than pot

Healthcare isn’t a right. If you’re broke, get a better education and a better job. There’s nothing free in this world and I’m not going to bust my ass and pay 70% in taxes so that the government sends it to an illegal immigrant Mexican woman to pay for her 8th kid. She doesn’t do a fucking thing that benefits me or this country (besides provide cheap labor to democrats) so why the fuck should I work hard to see my money benefit her?

I'm in favor of it. National socialism is the future.

>Okay, we should adopt their policies.
Being fully market economies, heavy on the welfare?
>Which uh...yeah that's socialist man.
fucking retard

inventing an example which makes you emotionally upset does not really deal with the point. taxes and healthcare are macroeconomics, and you're just being irrationally angsty

if you disagree with one of the laws enforced by police, or the procedures of the police, does that mean you want the police disbanded and replaced by private police?

Socialism is for figs...

>if you are broke, get a better education
How would you pay for that, if you are broke?

>I’m not going to bust my ass and pay 70% in taxes
So leave the country. Nobody denies you that right.

Huzzah

You mean fags? That's a great way to start your argument lmao

Well to put it in a real world setting, all of the 2020 democrat candidates want illegals to magically become US citizens, and almost all of them want socialism. That means that I now have to pay for the healthcare and welfare checks for the litters that illegals are breeding here. This becomes a rational and valid concern: who is going to pay for all of that? Do you expect me to?

Unethical.

Yea and the illegals and the drug addicts will trash our country. Just like California

Meanwhile socialist California keeps dumping money into a growing drug and homelessness crisis and they scratch their stupid fucking heads and wonder why

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new here, aren't ya?

Drug War prevents socialism.
You can't just take whatever you need because junkies would steal everything

Cucks. All will be turned to Swiss cheese, burned in piles or hung from trees.

That's because the US system is built around negating and reducing social mobility. If you are concerned about paying welfare checks, you should also be concerned about why the country continues the trend of creating an A team and a B team of its citizens.

How in the fuck could you ever convert America to socialism? Idiots.

You say that people aren't rational and to solve this problem it's better if bureaucrats make irrational decisions for everyone?

Or do you think bureaucrats has a finer blood than us?

>A team and B team
What in God’s name are you going on about?

Just ask yourself this simple question: why would anyone want (key word) to financially support someone else is not willing to work in exchange for mutual benefits that might or might not occur?

Forget about communist theory. Look at the reality of it and answer truthfully

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*who is not willing

I'd rather ask why you began with a real-world problem and then went back to wanting an answer to a theoretical or even philosophic question as to why you would do something with seemingly no benefits for yourself.

Pic related are the kinds of faggots begging for socialism

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Lol the eternal nigger rears his nappy head.

Because people are social animals and are willing to help each other? The problem with Marxist theory isn't that at all, nor any of the other problems that capitalists trot out like the calculation problem, and people who think it is are deluded. It's its egalitarian baggage. The social side, not the economic.

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I was asking the theoretical question as a real world question. Why would you work hard at school and get a good job to see the fruits of your labor go to the 8th kid of a gang banger illegal immigrant, or see it go to a “sanctuary city” that pays drug addicts to shoot up more heroin?

Well if you’re a fucking piece of shit and choose to shoot up dope in the street I’m not going to pay a god damn thing for your sorry ass. The world would be better off without you.

Socialism seems to want people to believe that there is virtue in monetarily rewarding drug abuse.

So socialism is a mental illness

Sounds like your problem is that you don't wanna pay brown people to be shitty.
So why not encourage brown people to be not shitty? Or remove them from the equation altogether?
Dude, I'm a Nazi. I want drug addicts to get help, and drug pushers to be hanged. I don't want to just throw money at the problem.

So you are saying getting a good education, by working hard in school and getting a good job from that is not valuable for you if others don't?

The ones who don’t aren’t the ones moving the economy.

The economy isn't the ultimate end of society.

Why should I encourage them to do anything? They’re human beings, they already have a sense of right and wrong and a sense of duty/obligation to do the right thing. If they don’t follow that then they can rot in the gutter and they won’t get a nickel from me

The economy is the reason society exists to begin with

Because the state exists and it exists to encourage and coerce people into doing things they may not have the will or desire to do on their own.
Duties, like rights, are reciprocal. People have duties to society at large, and society at large has duties to individuals. It's the right thing to do to help broken people, and to remove from society those who are malicious.
Not at all. The economy shouldn't be the focus. The stock market really only matters to a handful of rich Jews. National well-being and strength is what matters. Reducing individuals to economic units is degenerate.

You do realize that American socialism made it possible for your hypothetical uber-mensch to be in that position, don't you? Public education, clean water and environmental standards, free airwaves and open utilities, police, fire, and military protection, healthcare until you turned 18, cheap and open travel-- these are all socialist benefits. You didn't earn them, you don't deserve them; we (everyone who isn't you) just gave them to you because we (everyone who isn't you) think that you should have them, because in the version of reality we're building for ourselves those are just things that people have. If you think you want to try logging with only the things that you, solely and personally, have accrued then brah, you are on the wrong fucking continent. I'd suggest central Africa or the shittier parts of Asia.

Sounds like you like to think of yourself as an important individual in society, while in reality, you are statistically more likely to be an easily replaceable cog in the big picture.

No, society exists because it proved to be a safer and more beneficial alternative than living alone with your closest relatives.

You sound like an impotent 57 year old. Not to mention a crybaby bitch. Tell us to “get off my lawn!” Fucking dumbshit. It costs us more to treat all the uninsured. I take it Math isn’t your strong suit.

This dumb white nigger actually believes it’s all “libruls” hiring illegals. Jesus fucking Christ, the idiocy.

Ok well I have more of a right to be here than you and when it comes time, we’ll have a civil war for capitalism vs socialism. After that socialism won’t exist anymore because all the socialists will be wiped out

How’s that, bitch?

Civil war here we come

:) can’t wait

Capitalism made all that possible, all capitalist benefits.

Lol what's the matter, did babby soil him's nappy? Is babby gonna have a wittle cwy now?

Don't cwy, babby. It'll be otay.

Do something you worthless white nigger pussy. You fat fucks have been saying that shit since 08. You wouldn’t even know who to shoot, you fucking janitor coward. Kek

Hahaha

There won't be, because that entire dispute was resolved. That's also why this entire discussion is fucking cringe. Neoliberalism is the synthesis of postwar American capitalism and '68 Eurocommunism and its polar opposite is fascism. Those are the relevant opposites, not your gay boomer Cold War socialism/capitalism shit.

You're going to die off and then me and my fellow zoomers are going to kill each other over whether the future is globohomo or nazbol. And I can't fucking wait.

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Nice smiley, fag. You’re one pathetic pussy of a 12 year old.

Underrated

I think it’s good for all.

If it was left to capitalists they would only benefit the top 5% of the population, and the rest of us -- you included -- would be treated as chattel. Capitalism only ever benefits the individual at the expense of the community without some sort of moderating influence.

Oh god. You’re such a faggot

Go shoot yourself and do the world a favor. The more liberals who kill themselves the better off everyone else is

Stupid faggot ass piece of pigshit. Go put a gun in your cunt face and blow it off. Your mom should have swallowed

We’ve been conditioned to believe that “isms” are bad, communism, socialism, racism, capitalism, oh wait forget that last one..

Let the tears flow, little one. Let the agony of being soft, fat, white and 12 wash over you. Use that force on your enemies! Cry them into submission!

At least till bedtime.

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>still has to rely on others to kill themselves while he doesn't have to balls to start the civil war he wants

You know it’s officially summer when you see assblastery of this caliber. Never has anyone been more triggered. You can hear the sizzle of her tears hit her cheap Walmart keyboard.

God this is such a moronic statement it’s not even funny you already are not only that you’re paying for privatized healthcare you can jack the prices skyhigh. you’re paying for healthcare providers/technology/drug execs to have those nice cars and homes.

Hey kid. Want some free candy?

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He’s going to call it bait now.

Full house of truth.

I like that it paid for inventing light and strong materials in the space race, and new branches of mathematics to be worked out, and nuclear power, and countless electronics and instrumentation and chemistry and metallurgy and computers and programming and weapons systems and battleships and design software that was used to develop countless machines and processes and btfo out of Germany in a couple world wars and perfect diving equipment and aircraft parts and aviation as a whole and air travel and give an entire generation interest free loans for homes businesses and education before those very same people who are now in power have cut all those loans and education funding and made it damn near fucking impossible to afford to start a business due to having to shoulder your employees insane healthcare costs all while bitching about how socialism is evil.

Socialism is how societies take on the big risks that the capitalists can't, either because they're too poor or too pussy. After the big costly risks are paid for by the fucking crown, or fucking nasa, or fucking department of energy, then it's up to the fucking moneygrubbers to come along and make better fucking toasters out of it for you plebs. And that's what you worship, a fucking market of god damn toasters like its the meaning of your pathetic lives.

Rot.

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Britain here. Not socialist. Huge motherfuckin empire.

I'm 40. I spent the majority of my childhood in West Germany. My biggest memory? Traveling on a train near the border and seeing the fence and guard towers on the East German side. If your political system has to build a wall and man it with soldiers to keep people in, your political system is fucked.

1.21 niggawats
ur empire failed
and all that money, & you fags never even had a space program
just a bunch of old geezers in tweed walkin around some old brick buildings goin wot wot wot

>40, was 10yo when the wall came down
>doesn't like authoritarianism circa 1979
>buys into authoritarian right wing nationalism in 2019
lol good job user

Authoritarianism is the problem. Communists kill

explain how I buy into right wing nationalism.

How old were you when the wall came down?

You can like right wing nationalism and socialism at the same time

dubs proves its socialism or barbarism /thread

just like Christianity; looks great on paper but will never happen cause men aren't angels.

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>Capitalism is based on the idea that people will make rational decisions. But even Adam Smith recognize that it's unrealistic.
this is incorrect.
in truth, it does not matter if people are rational or irrational. the law of supply and demand is not dictated by the rationality of individuals.
the reason why economists use models of rationality is because we don't have any working model of irrationality.
however it would be very beneficial to know just how rational we are, and it's one of the major topics modern econ is working on.

Bout tree fiddy.

Fascism or barbarism, more like
Dubs get

> If your political system has to build a wall and man it with soldiers to keep people in, your political system is fucked
lol user that's not exactly how that wall got there.
you may want to sit down, cause this may come as a terrible shock, but you see, once upon a time, a serb killed the archduke and, well, funny thing, haha, but all the Old World cultures somewhat predictably went nuts and killed everybody. Twice, actually, because they were fucking morons.

The dubs have spoken nazifag
Hope you like being strung up by your feet :)

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13

It will grow in popularity until 59 years from now when nobody wants to work. Everyone will be on government aid and society will collapse. We need to wait for robots to get smarter before we can be this lazy. We'd also need to integrate some eugenics into policy and that's not likely at this point either.

BUT I DON"T LIKE IT ANYWAY

Nobody has ever wanted to work. Still have to work. You're a moron.

It’s gay

So, because of WW1, East Germany, with the help of Russia, built their border with guards facing inwards, land mines, and machine guns, to keep Serbs out?

>But it makes economic sense to support people (healthcare, education...
but why do all that when the market can take care of it?
why get stuck with a basket of goods, some of which you don't want, and only will be disappointed with when you can just buy what you want and not buy what you don't want on the market?
not to mention government spending crowds out public spending - this includes charitable programs.
people lose their sense of self responsibility and see a person starving on the street and say to themselves, "not my problem, it's the government's job to deal with the poor."

Moreover, where does the money for all this support come from?

Without taxes, which is absolute theft, governments can't fund social programs. Doctors and other skilled persons will not work for free. Universities do not educate for free. The money has to come from somewhere, and when given the chance, those taxed the heaviest of their own hard earned money will leave to a place where they keep more of their own wages. Socialism and communism use the threat of the gun to keep producers in their own countries. In any other economic system, if the ones who are forced to pay out the most for those who can't or won't work have the chance, they will go to a country or state where their contributions to society are valued more than the leach.

Well one or two things might have happened in between, but you don't need to trouble yourself with that.

Like what? Germany having it's ass handed to it twice? Don't start shit if you don't want shit. Don't use National SOCIALISM as a form of government to motivate your people to murder jews, gays, gypsies, and other folks, all while wanting the resources of other hard working countries for yourself.

You can gloat about the time capitalism used you to make you own yourself but it doesn't make the dialectic any less advanced.

Neoliberalism or fascism. Make your pick, user.