Atheists, explain to me how faith in a manmade THEORY evolution is better than faith in the divine word of a Holy God

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Proof of evolution:
>centuries of study on plants and small mammals
>the discovery of genetics
>darwinism
>survival of the fittest
>useless organs and bone structures left behind from our ancestors
>fossils dating back hundreds of millions of years

Evidence of god:
>Some books that have been translated a few dozen times
>a guy that may or may not have existed that may or may not have raised the dead
>people who think they can "speak with god"

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The simple fact of the matter is that we really don't know which theory is real, there's just more scientific evidence which backs evolution being more plausible than creationism

That being said, some scientists do agree that even evolution could not be possible without some sort of existing 'spark' to kick-start the evolutionary process, putting forward a theory that the basic principles of both evolution and creationism could perhaps coexist with each other

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Plot Twist: Stargate was right all along.

That being said the chemistry for life is so common in the universe and so easy to make you don't need a spark for life to happen. given the right chemistry and time it just happens.

At our most basics we are just chemistry, our DNA operates on the charges of the base pairs trying to neutral themselves out like any chemical reaction. If there was some unknown magic that was needed to make life exist then sure but nope. A basic understanding of chemistry and atomic theory is all you need.

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actually I have better things to do right now than waste time here, you can have your thread back OP. I have a life which is more then can be said for you sadly.

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First, prove to me that god exists.

Second, prove to me that it's YOUR God and not Allah or Brahma or Zeus.

Third, prove to me that you have the faintest fucking clue what he wants, as opposed to what you WANT him to want.

(Pro tip: you have to do this without referring to the Bible. Because to the skeptic, it's just another book.)

Once you do all of that, then I'll be convinced that your theory deserves the same consideration as science.

The Neverending Shitposter. I hope you die of anal cancer, somewhere where they never heard of painkillers.

Because it allows them to touch little children in their swimsuit area.

>centuries of study on plants and small mammals
Where did the physical laws of the universe come from that allowed such life to exist?

>the discovery of genetics
Where did the physical laws of the universe come from that allowed such things to exist?

>darwinism
An old man writing things with an agenda.

>survival of the fittest
Let there is some really weak things in the world like cows. They have almost no defensive mechanism. Also people tend at times to help the weak, which goes against this. Hmm.

>useless organs and bone structures left behind from our ancestors
"Left behind"? So if ancestors leave behind their experiences about a deity, ignore exploring that. But an organ you're to scientifically stupid enough to understand is a missing link to a theory a mad man came up with while he was fapping to nature porn. Right.

>fossils dating back hundreds of millions of years
Prove those creatures existed, yes. Proof that they "evolved" via a set of universal laws called evolution? Nope. It's just a snapshot of things that existed. it doesn't prove anything else.

Also this thread is furry spam so forget it.

Anyone with basic historical and scientific literacy knows.

Oof someone hasn’t done any study on something they want to disprove

Because EVOLUTION means it's okay for me to fuck monkeys and they are sexier than young boys

Do you want me to be an atheist who believes the universe and all it's laws came into existence out of nothing? Then convince me without insults, talking down to me and make a good case. I've got time.
Preach like my life depended upon it.

Are you canadian or african? teasing...

Evolution is just the passing down of beneficial/neutral genes
Genes can be added due to mutations as well
And due to predation in nature, the organisms with the most beneficial genes survive to reproduce more often, thus passing their genes on

Let's say you're 100% right. So there would be this physical / biological set of rules in this universe that allowed this to happen. How did the universe come to be where these laws were imparted into it?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm honestly curious. Cause and effect. If there is this evolution, that is the effect. if you were to make a universe from scratch, how would you install those laws into the universe you created so they would work?

Evolution doesn’t rely on arbitrary laws of the universe.
That’s like saying pi equals 3.14 because universal laws
It just makes sense that life would refine itself over time

Again, saying you're correct, then there is a set series of directions for life to refine itself to. How did the physical universe come to be that those directions exist in the first place?

The first life forms were probably extremely simple hydrocarbons. They might not have even fit our definitions of life. But over time a biological machine will get more complex to out reproduce its competitors

>I don’t understand stuff so a higher being did it

you do realize that neither atheism nor the theory of evolution contain any statements about the origins of the universe whatsoever, right?

True. That shit is closer to philosophy than science

god is a myth, the bible is fiction and religion is bullshit

christians, jews & muslims have been trolled by the oldest bait in the history of civilization

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I think you're missing my question. I'm going under the idea that you're initially right. However I am also going under the condition that if the effect is a universe that allows this to happen, how did the universe happen?

I openly asked several times how did it happen. Instead of being a dick, convince me that a 3 dimensional physical universe just popped into existence with a set series of biological and physical out of nothing.

Then why believe in it, and why do SOME fedora wearing atheist types say there is no god and point to these things as proof? The premise of OP's meme-question is why not have faith that if there is an effect, maybe there is cause? The universe seems too well ordered for random chance, and for laws in the universe to exist without a cause. If someone wants me to believe in these things, they have to back it up. I have no problems with people asking, "Why should I believe your god is the real god since there are many claims to different gods existing?" That's 100% fair. But I don't have the faith to believe existence and evolution and biological and physical laws came to be out of nothing. It takes a lot of faith to believe that, and I don't have it.

I'm serious about my questions. If there is no god, and people have some explanations for some things, but they can't explain others, I get suspicious. I don't want to spend my life believing in an unscientific lie to placate people who would try to shame someone for believing in a deity.

The universe may be infinitely old idk
Any information before 13.8 billion years ago is to red shifted to ever understand

Holy God is proven by nothing in history, not one single piece of concrete evidence even remotly supports the so called events of the testaments- not a single word of truth, only faith and hopes.

Evolution is just a collection of written passages based on direct ,visible ,measurable information collected over the decades by scientists to try and explain the world and its living organisms...no faith or hopes or biased make belief concoctions of poetic fictional stories.

Not correct, the light from any bodies beyond that distance may not have arrived here yet.

>Holy God is proven by nothing in history, not one single piece of concrete evidence even remotly supports the so called events of the testaments- not a single word of truth, only faith and hopes.
Isn't there a thing in the jewish word, or the christians old testament that says their god wants you to "prove him" about some stuff? I think it's in the last book of their old testament. Also there is some line in isaiah, I think, it's been a while since someone showed me, where the jewish god told people to put him in remembrance of things he said or some such?
Sounds like it's a god that wants to be held accountable and proven he exists.

but the light cant and never will reach us
the things emitting the light are moving away faster than light

The expansion of the universe is faster than light anything past the hubble sphere will never reach us
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_sphere

Fuck off Alabama

One of the few times that furfags actually save the day.
Thank you furskins.

Lol

can someone please tell me what the OP pic is from?

You wish you could bone your redneck sister.
Jealous incel.
it could be worse, it could be Kentucky or Florida.

It's an edit of the chick from The Neverending Story with I think the face of some Saturday night live chick with an ugly face.

it's a frame from a banned film called "daisy's destruction".

Because there's zero possibility that an all knowing and all powerful entity made a fucking idiot like you in its image

Dude, no! kek

can we talk about this meme?
is there one person who makes these, or a group or just several individual autists?
OP, what made you post this right now?

I've seen this posted for I think several years now. I don't know if it's a forced meme. This isn't like /pol/ where you can tell the ID of someone who posts. Who knows?
t.Milhouse

Because on gets tested and continually refined, the other is just stupid shit

You're right. Evolution is just stupid shit.

The way i see it, it doesnt fucking mattter. We all die so whats the point of debating what happens after die? It doesnt concern anyone, Just let people believe in, whether it be god, allah, buddha or even fucking chris-chan, as long as they dont push it, then let them be

>chris-chan
don't you mean christine-chan you fucking homophobe

But what if it does matter because you and I don't know everything, and living the life of a human cockroach, just eating, shitting and breeding isn't all there is to be in life? I want to know the truth.
I have a theory that if there is a god, I think the dude would want to make his presence known somehow. So... has it happened and if so, which dude is the real dude. Would Dudicus Maximus please stand forward?

That faggot isn't ever getting pregnant and his DNA is a dude... what passes for a sloppy lethargic blob of one.

Thats what i was saying. Let people who believe in a higher meaning believe it, and if you dont then dont. it only effects you.

But what if they are believing the right thing? Fuck man, I want to know. I mean various religions talk about a hell which is all fire and that, and scientists say the center of the earth is a FUCKING BALL OF FIRE AND MOLTEN EARTH. How the hell did those people all those years ago guess that correctly, and so many of them say the same thing? Freaking creepy, man.

I'M THE SCATMAN

Holy word of "God" is manmade too.

volcanoes

Yeah, but in the center of the earth? Maybe I can believe someone had the imagination for that, but people used to believe the earth was flat, and some indians thought we were on a giant turtle or some such. IDK, man. I want to know if it's legit.

Id say research all the major religions and talk to spiritual leaders in each group to make decision.

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God made boobs. Checkmate, atheists.

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what's the purpose of posting the same thread again and again and again, and without posting the results of other similar threads?

Good point. Not everybody is here every moment of the day, so... IDK. Someone should collect stuff and try to make cheat sheets for various opinions.

There ist no reason to believe into something that people call "god".

Jews is the answers, you know.
Jews don't give a fuck about integrity, they just need you to argue about stupid things like this

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If this post ends in 633 then God exists.

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so this is a YLYL thread? is fun to know there's no need to take anything posted here seriously then

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you should read again, jidf, your degree is not gonna paid itself

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Can I save that image?

The Abrahamic God is an Akkadian-Summerian god though. The Ancient Hebrews weren't all that different religiously, or culturally than the Assyrians and Babylonians. They, and a lot of other groups, were just caught in the middle of the two warring empires for a few centuries, and when the Persians showed up they were happy to come under their influence instead. And that's how the Abrahamic faiths ended up being monotheistic, and why the Akkadian-sumerian religion died out completely.

If you went back in time to just after the Bible was written and mentioned anything about how pork and shrimp is good you just need to understand cooking temperatures, they would burn you at the stake.
Ignoring the obvious, people who would be considered caveman by our standards wrote a book to influence people. Either to keep them alive (don't eat pork and shellfish) or to force morals on the society (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.) they needed it to commanded by a magical sky wizard under the penalty of eternal hell or else no one would listen to the rules.

Everytime I see this thread I laugh, how are you eating up the morals of a bunch of cavemen. Try reading from scholars of the last 150 years.

yes, i give you my permission to do what ever you want with it

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I need a jewish version of this.

Scholars told me Pluto was a planet.
They lied.

How did da jews get across the Red Sea when they were escaping Pharaoh? I never figured that one out.

sorry i don't have a kosher version

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If evilution weren't correct then the entirety of moderb biology and all it's real world applications would be wrong too. We know this isn't the case. At best, evolution just needs more refining, but this is true of all science, and likely always will be.

>If evilution weren't correct then the entirety of moderb biology and all it's real world applications would be wrong too.
Yeah no, that's lunacy.

Just cut off the tip.

Allah is the same god. It's just the Arabic word for it. In the Middle East Christians and Jews, and other Abrahamic faiths call their god Allah.

I thought it was "Abba Father" for the Christians.
I thought it was also "cha-ching" of the cash register for the jews.

>>survival of the fittest
>Let there is some really weak things in the world like cows. They have almost no defensive mechanism. Also people tend at times to help the weak, which goes against this. Hmm.
It's survival of the fittest, not the strongest you mongoloid. If being a fat, docile meat&milk bioreactor gives you the most offspring then it's the fittest choice for the environment the creature is occupying.

>Scholars told me Pluto was a planet.
>They lied.

No that is how science works. When the knowledge changes, the definitions can change. Unlike the Bible where cooking temperatures are still a mystery.

Oh goy, holy buuble.
Yes goyim you are doing the right thing embracing yahwe. We big-nosed Kikes who are dirty like cocroaches are god's chosen people.. But goyim animals like you who are faithful to yahwe, our god, have a special place in hell. You will work only for 23 hours in our gold mines as opposed to 24. Also we will increase your interest rates by 0.0000000001% so that after 1 billion years you can afford to fuck a little asian goy who landed in the hell for embracing buddha in the ass. Of course given we won't increase inflation. Oh goy! Look forward to your afterlife its gonna be awesome!

Fresh off the boat, from reddit, kid? heh I remember when I was just like you. Braindead. Lemme give you a tip so you can make it in this cyber sanctuary: never make jokes like that. You got no reputation here, you got no name, you got jackshit here. It's survival of the fittest and you ain't gonna survive long on Yea Forums by saying stupid jokes that your little hugbox cuntsucking reddit friends would upboat. None of that here. You don't upboat. You don't downboat. This ain't reddit, kid. This is Yea Forums. We have REAL intellectual discussion, something I don't think you're all that familiar with. You don't like it, you can hit the bricks on over to imgur, you daily show watching son of a bitch. I hope you don't tho. I hope you stay here and learn our ways. Things are different here, unlike any other place that the light of internet pop culture reaches. You can be anything here. Me ? heh, I'm a judge.. this place.... this place has a lot to offer... heh you'll see, kid . . . that is if you can handle it...

>Make shit up one day
Accept it unquestioningly and mock the religious folk
>Change your shit
Accept it unquestioningly and mock the religious folk

I believe science goes hand in hand with the theory of a god, but that god, whoever he is would be consistent 100% of the time. There is a science in the character of that god, if you would.

>It's survival of the fittest, not the strongest you mongoloid.
I guess that explains why atheists are usually fuck ugly and can't get laid.

>athiest
cringe

>fittest /= strongest necessarily

In biology fit means having a niche to guarantee survival. Cows are a major food source for humans. That's their niche. That's what guarantees their continued survival.

Humans aren't inherently strong either. We are intelligent and we are social animals. That is our niche.

So what made the universe be where these niches could exist?

>Do you want me to be an atheist

No one really cares what you are. Your mom may have told you that you are a special snowflake, but she was either lying or delusional. You're not. None of us are.

pederasty was proper in ancient rome and accept in plato's writing.

try again with your simple dismissal of apparent "molestation". ancient greek life is more proper than bullshit catholic beliefs.

there's only ONE "work" on the notion of rumored tales of whatever, that include magic. it isn't even properly formatted in APA style. evolution theory is.

I think most atheists do care. If they didn't care why spend so much energy dogging people? They mock people that think different from them. You don't get into a tizzy about stuff that really has no value. And they don't want religious people to have their own places and nations. They want control over other people. That says a lot about their self-righteous image of themselves.

i know that the future is predestined and that we have no free will. i KNOW this myself because i had a special gift of seeing it to know it. that means we live in a recording, and it is obviously using a power source to render it. it came from somewhere. there IS something beyond us. this IS just a fake box (universe)

"nothing comes from nothing." - rene decartes

keep these threads going... they're hilarious for a philosophy major.

youtube.com/watch?v=Za7wKeWZrrI

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>I'm smarter than you
>Won't share it
Thanks for the help, moron.

The current and most widely accepted model is the LambdaCDM model. It's nowhere near complete, and no one claims it is.

Then how can you claim there is no god if you don't know? Have you been everywhere? I heard a science news story recently where they have scientists who say there might be alternate universes. Well, if there might be one, how come that one can't be where a deity might pop up from?
I just don't get how people who openly say they don't know it all are so damn sure they know something they can't prove doesn't exist? Smarmy fucks.

>Philosophy Major
Sputtering unnecessary bullshit and propaganda that noone needs instead of making oneself useful in chemistry,physics,math,biology,linguistics, computer sciences, architecture, geology, medicine etc....

One's is a falsifiable theory with the best evidence our most intelligent minds can currently conjure. The other theory has no evidence and was the best theory someone in 200 AD could conjure.

>theory
People said they experienced various things about god 9depending on what you god you believe in.)
I can understand questioning if they were delusional or telling the truth, that makes sense. But islam, christianity, judaism, hiduism, all that stuff, none of them were theories. They weren't guessing. I don't understand how someone dehumanizes people like that in saying that. What is wrong with you?

You should watch KJB: The Book that Changed the World. It's really good, and the dude who played Gimli in LotR is the narrator. It's just a translation dude.

>"What happens when you die?"
>"You get what you want if you're good and you face your worst fear if you're bad."
>"Can you go more in depth on that?"
>"Okay so..."

But no religion or faith I know says I have to face my worst fear.
tfw when it's getting back with my ex-gf who is a landwhale now on deviantArt making pron and fursonas. I'd face fire for eternity than deal with that,

Religious people do all that too. Fuck, people who are just really into a particular sports team, or piece of pop culture do that, as well as people who dislike those things. It seems to be a general human trait, rather than one of any particular group of us.

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You're not wrong. It's just that user was saying he believes nothing matters, so why bother, but many atheists seem really bothered.
People suck.

Where did this god come from?

>Then how can you claim there is no god if you don't know?

I don't claim that. I'm a heathen. I believe in lots of gods.

Great question. It's literally the question of "why does existence exist?"
This universe exists in a state with time, space and matter. None of them can exist without the other two. If the universe was made, and a god said he did it, where did he come from? It literally blows my mind the possibility of the infinite.

Which one has the best shoes?

jesus christ i didn't think this thread would get 130 replies thanks guys
it was bait

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Loki. He's the one responsible for all the gods greatest artifacts, like Mjolnir, and Gungnir. It stands to reason he'd be able to procure the best shoes for himself.

But the divine word of a holy god is a man made theory as well

Funny you say that. Gonna let you in on a secret. The bible was written by man.

Not a theory. A claim. If it's a claim, you can disprove it. A theory isn't really anything.

>The bible was written by man.
Moses got the first copy of the ten commandments written by God Himself, and in anger Moses destroyed them. So why wouldn't God tell people to write things down. It's an act of obedience to do that correctly and share it with others, no matter what god you serve.

I'm getting drunk at 7:30am, on hobo beer. Do you really think this thead is going to be the low point of my day?

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East coast US? What's up?

Anime exists.
Checkmate non-believers!

I for one appreciate your honesty. Have good a one.

i know tl;dr, but you did say, "explain" so...

its a good question that deserves a good explanation. the theory that god exists is a theory that is supported by zero real evidence. the theory that evolution is taking place is supported by a literal shitton of evidence. maybe you've seen dogs, for instance. obviously, there were no dogs in the garden of eden, therefore, genetic drift must be a thing that is actually happening. if genetic drift occurs over a long enough period of time, how could that not result in evolution; as the environment separates successful genetic changes from harmful ones? also there's the fossil record, the pepper moth etc.. vs again, zero real evidence that god is not a made up man made theory. there are thousands of religions on just this planet, and you know that a lot of religions are made up horse shit, and i know just as surely that yours is too because zero evidence.

> the theory that god exists is a theory that is supported by zero real evidence.
Don't need to read any more than that.
Everything else has to be bullcrap.
Existence dictates something made it.

GOD is a Fictional character from the book called Bible

allah called. you're gonna die, infidel
Also this Christianity MUST be the real thing because it's the only one atheists bitch about. It's almost like they are doing the devil's work.

Pic related

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So you trust the word of God through the mouths of man, who is literally in the Bibles words prone to corruption of every type?
You seem to be forgetting that strongest doesn’t equate to “the fittest”, especially in nature.

see
You can prove it for yourself by doing what the word says.

So if I've done what the word says and nothing happened, have I proven it false?

You don't necessarily have to choose one over the other. One of my gods is said to have sacrificed an eye for knowledge, and later hanged himself frim the World Tree to learn the secrets of writing. I doubt those stories are literally true, but they are metaphors to demonsteate that Odin prizes knowledge and learning over his own wellbeing. Odin may not even objectively exist, but the things he is said to stand for do. My faith is rooted in the here and now, and I value science over blind faith. I still think there's room in there somewhere for my faith, or superstitions, or bullshit, or whatever you want to call it.

faith = belief
theory = based on evidence.

/Thread

>So if I've done what the word says and nothing happened, have I proven it false?
What did you do? Did you turn it off and on?

>whatever you want to call it
Fiction.

Hmm.
Aren't you displaying faith that science will have an answer to why you don't believe in God?
I mean it's a real stretch to say, "everything just showed up one day with no explanation!"

>Aren't you displaying faith that science will have an answer to why you don't believe in God?
Nope.
>I mean it's a real stretch to say, "everything just showed up one day with no explanation!"
Where did he say that?

You're misrepresenting what i'm saying. Depends on your definition of 'faith' - religious people claim they have 'faith' of things they believe arbitrarily.

Conversely, science has evidence backing it, so you have 'faith' in the evidence-based process.

Because god is not real? You know when the new testament was written? Or the fact that no one of the guys who said that he has seen jc never wrote a shit about him.

>Nope.
I think you are. Faith is acting on what you believe. When you act on what you believe and find that it is true, you no longer believe it. You know it.

Why does everyone automatically crap on Jesus and God and not on allah or other gods? I wonder.

>Faith is acting on what you believe.
False. Faith is belief not based on reason and evidence.
>When you act on what you believe and find that it is true, you no longer believe it. You know it.
False, knowledge is a subset of belief. You necessarily believe everything you know.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have the same God. As for why people in the West tend to pick on Christianity, it's because it's by far the majority religion.

This defies logic and reason. In fact, there is no reason to take anything on faith. Whatever floats your boat.

Because evolution is verifiable through repeated tests that converge on the same conclusion.
The Holy God theory is basically AB
If it goes right, it's his glory
If it goes wrong, he works in mysterious ways
There's no real explanatory power to "GOD DID IT".

That works too. Its unimportant.

>there is no god and point to these things as proof?
Because these and the laws of physics function without a God factor

There’s ZERO evidence for the existence of any god. However, there are many logical arguments that raise substantial doubt. I’m not buying it.

One is scientificaly proven

Evolution is just change over time due to natural/sexual selection , all we have to know so that we can prove evolution is this:

- Genes are a thing that exists

-Time is liniar and a thing that also exists

- Sexual reproduction exists and you get half the gense from ur mom and half from ur dad.

- Genes that inhibit surivival/reproduction are less likely to pass down to childern as they carrier of the genes is less likely to get a mate and reproduce

-Genes that help with surivival/reproduction are more likely to pass fown to childern as the carrier of the genes is more likely to get a mate and reproduce

And the other is one a dozen story about how the world was created and was writen by a differnt almighty god than the other that could have been just as eazly be someone lying his ass off for some reason or the other

Example: You're at a friend's house. You're hanging out watching handegg sports. You ask if there are anything to drink and he says, "Yeah, there's a beer in the fridge." You get up, walk to the fridge, not knowing if he told you the truth, open the door. You see the beer. Do you still need faith? Nope. You have knowledge. You KNOW there is a beer because you experience its presence with your five senses.

Faith is acting on what you believe.

You hire someone for a job. They say they'll show up on Monday morning at 8am. You don't this guy from Adam. When that dude shows up, on time regularly, your faith is rewarded by knowledge, bring turns faith into trust. Capability plus consistency brings trust.

You don't know every scientific law in the universe. Once you experience it, you have have to believe it. You know it. Have you ever been to a bar and seen a chick and she says she's a she, but something seems off, and later you find out it's a tranny? The pervert wants you to have faith in their words that they are packing a vag down there. Once you see it's some perverted guy and kick his ass, then you know not to have faith in him.

Exploring the 3 dimensional physical universe with science is a right thing to do. But you're searching for answers having faith in that process for things you don't know. Once you demonstrate they exist, you don't believe in gravity, you know it.

How did those laws come into being? What faith do you have that the physical properties of an entire universe just pops into being. Dude, your atheism is a religion. You believe in the god of nothing, and that takes way too much faith.

I wasn't arguing for it?

All these faggots saying there is no god.
All of them say "hurr science."
None of them can answer where science came from.

NO!

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God himself said he died for our sins. The king James bullshit bible changed words. There is neither heaven nor hell, but jesus died for us to be able to die in peace. I like arguing with hardcore christians, because the latin and hebrew testaments are completely different to the american one.

Dont forget jesus/the holy ghost/god saying, we are his children and are now responsible to ascend to gods ourself.

What about the Greek?
Checkmate: gaytheists!

>How did those laws come into being?
We're working hard to hash out the best explanations.
There are some things, like what happened before the big bang, that might impossible to verify.
>physical properties of an entire universe just pops into being
The entire universe didn't just pop into being.
It started from a seed, and grew.

>where science came from
Us.
>inb4 fallable man bullshit

>Do you still need faith?
You didn't need faith in the first place.
>You have knowledge.
Knowledge is a subset of belief. If someone asked you if you believe there is a beer, you'd have to say yes.
>Faith is acting on what you believe.
No, it isn't.

Wasn't the Bible written by a bunch of dudes high off of cannabis while atheism is the overall collective statement of hundreds of thousands of scientists that have come to the conclusion there is no god?

>What about the Greek?
Wat? The oldest records of the old testament are hebrew and egypt. The oldest records of the new testament are hebrew from the golan hights and latin.
Contiue to believe in heaven or hell introduced by translation errors. And lets not forget dragons in the pagan translation

>We're working hard to hash out the best explanations.
>There are some things, like what happened before the big bang, that might impossible to verify.
So you want me to have faith in you, that based on your expressed limitations that there can't possibly be a god? That's what you're saying.

>The entire universe didn't just pop into being.
>It started from a seed, and grew.
And geez, I thought we were floating on a giant turtle.

You dummy. I meant the scientific laws of the universe. How do you make a universe out of nothing? How do you input time, space and matter? How do you add the principle of gravity? If evolution is real, how do you program the universe to have that in there? Since there is DNA, how do you make the principles of biology go so that DNA has the properties it has?

You're objectively wrong.

Who the fuck posts this shit? Are you a stormfront fagg?

Holy crap , im now belive in a god , but now who was it?

Allah?
Yawhee?
Some random ass god from some african tribe that basicly no one knows about as the tribe was dystroed by a herd of elephants?
Some aliens?
A succubi that got the powers of got and made the world that we live in because she was bored one day?

The problem is: jesus said, he is god and he is going to die for our sins so we better. Even based on the bible god died for us so we can grow up to become gods ourself.
Just hardcore christians would argue with their heaven hell model

I love hearing all these peoples' obscure takes on the Bible and Christianity, using them as some kind of argumentation. Just because you think that god is nature or god is everyone or some shit doesn't validate any sort of religious claim, it just highlights how much you like to make up shit.

>You're objectively wrong.
Nope.

>How do you make a universe out of nothing?
Give us an example of nothing.

If there is a beginning, there is an end. If there is an effect, there is a cause. The effect is the universe in all its complexity. What caused it in the complete condition that it's in?

You people want others to abandon their religions and faiths and such, put up or shut up. You either have answers, or you're more in the dark then the people you despise.

I don't think you know what "faith" and "theory" means.
You also assume a lot.

Did you know that being able to believe is a genetic part of your brain? I don't know if you believe in evolution, but it turned out that people having that part of their brain had a higher survival chance due to them enduring all pain and trying to reproduce as much as possible. But we are in a time where people believing less survive longer (ww1, ww2 and so on). Atheism in most people is not just people not understanding your point of view, but just no longer having it

>The effect is the universe in all its complexity.
Prove that the universe is an effect and that it does not simply exist.
>You either have answers, or you're more in the dark then the people you despise.
Wrong. At least I know that I don't know. The people I despise don't even know that they don't know.

>If there is a beginning, there is an end. If there is an effect, there is a cause.
Wat? That is just defined by our universe. There has to be no end and outside of our bubble not even a single of your laws matters. That is high school physics. You can argue for god, but that is the worst example possible

There was a scientific study a while back that was published that said if you use magnets to damage a part of the brain, it destroys your belief in god and makes you more susceptible to welcoming foreigners. /pol/ had a field day with this. Literally you have to be brain damaged to think like that, they said.

You don't make priniciples, and you don't set objectivity. If you can decide what is objective, then it isn't objective; something that is objective, by definition, just IS. The principles that govern the expansion and mechanisms of the universe are inherent. For some reason, theists have this weird concept that the laws of the universe were imprinted onto it rather than directly involved with it's formation. The universe (or any deity for that matter) did not decide what laws would best serve humankind. Rather, WE as living creatures figured out how to make the best of what we have.

>Prove that the universe is an effect and that it does not simply exist.
Either cause and effect works for everything, or it's not a scientific law. You are not talking in gibberish and circles.
>Wrong. At least I know that I don't know. The people I despise don't even know that they don't know.
You don't know that. You're acting in faith that you know that.

>There is no god
>can't prove how the existence of the universe came to be
>still says, "it can't be god, hurr we r smurt"

>Literally you have to be brain damaged to think like that
You can also completely erase memory or your lower brain functions for survival with electric shocks. I guess pol also believed that all atheists were electroshocked during childhood instead of just being born without that part of the brain

>So you want me to have faith in you,
I want you to follow where the evidence goes.
If god thrust his arm into the mortal realm to create the world or alter it in fantastical ways, like say parting the Red Sea, there would be forensic evidence in the physics left behind.

That's not saying we could find god particles, think of it like how we find black holes. We can't detect them specifically, we look for all the light around them being sucked in.
>there can't possibly be a god?
There's different kinds of Atheism, Hard, Soft, agnostic, etc.
I simply say there is no convincing evidence of God, not that there's definitely no God.

Why don't you ask them? I think they'd wipe the floor with you.

To expand another point, a lot of theists assert that God is the standard for what is objective fact-- that make it subjective, with the subject being God.

Because science christfag

Not to mention that this genetic "disease" of the missing part of your brain turns out to be genetically dominant. If christians want people to believe more again. they would have to introduce eugenics

>Either cause and effect works for everything
You are assuming that the universe is an effect. Please back up your assumption.
>or it's not a scientific law
That's actually not how scientific laws work. Scientific laws frequently only have a specific range of application.
>You don't know that.
Yes, I do.
>You're acting in faith that you know that.
Nope, it's based on reason and evidence that's been confirmed countless times.

You mean the ones that believed in shapiro or the uk populist or in trump being for free market and shit?
Nah, people shitposting are enough on here

>If god thrust his arm into the mortal realm to create the world or alter it in fantastical ways, like say parting the Red Sea, there would be forensic evidence in the physics left behind.
How did millions of jews get across that sea to exist for thousands of years without boats?

>I simply say there is no convincing evidence of God, not that there's definitely no God.
Two things work for me. 1. The universe is a living testament that a higher power made it as it has order and rules.
2. This can be debated, but this God would have had to reached out to people in times past if He wants them to know who He is. You can believe the testimonies of islam, judaism, christianity, whatever, or not. At least in the jewish / christian texts that god tells you that you can deal with him. That god makes demands and says, "I am."

I already told you. The Lambda CDM Model is the best, and most current explanation. If you actually want your question addressed, I suggest you familiarize yourself with it.

>current
I did. It explains nothing. It's stabbing in the darkness. Bad science with limited tools.

Why is the best a Christian can come up with 'you just have a different faith than me, therefore I'M RiGhT'

Who said I was one, infidel?

The only reason why you said Christian is because you know it is the truth and the light, and darkness hates the light lest their deeds be made manifest.

Not even him, but multiverse is viewable by now. We just had luck to have our almost stable universe pop into existance. Hawkin even gave an equation to create a new universe within our universe with a new big bang.

>How did millions of jews
Was it million?
Does that reflect the archaeological record?
Did ancient egypt have the resources to utilize millions of hebrew slaves, which indicates even more millions of other slaves of different ethnicities?
>get across that sea
You need to establish they did cross in the first place.
If we assume that it did happen, one explanation I've heard that it wasn't the Red Sea, but the Sea of Reeds which is further north. It's very shallow, and strong winds can quit literally "part it" and make it crossable.

>> man-made theory

>> bible written by men

hahahahha this is a joke, right?

>How do you make a universe out of nothing?

You don't. Which is why modern physics considers the very idea of nothingness to be nonsensical.

>The only reason why you said Christian is because you know it is the truth and the light, and darkness hates the light lest their deeds be made manifest.
So you believe in the idea of christians of the 13th century about hell?
Wow, good for you, you are at least openly not a christian

>is the neverending shitpost a joke
hello newfriend

Oh, is the current model inadequate? What do you plan on proposing in order to give us a more accurate one? Why isn't it a good model by the way?

Actually, are you even a physician? Do you even have a doctoral degree? Scratch that, have you ever even made any studies into the field you're currently admonishing?

Ignorant question, but if there can me multiple universes, why is there all this devotion to the idea that there couldn't be a universe with a being that made this one? I don't understand how you can exclude one thing and then concede that it yet might be.
I don't know science obviously, I'm asking a logic question. I still don't know how you answer, if there is a god, who made god or where did god come from?

>god tells you that you can deal with him. That god makes demands and says, "I am
Deal with him?
He's described as all powerful and perfect and right in all he does.
Sounds like I can't reason or bargain, I'm just obligated to follow or face his wrath.

>men
We made a theory that says there is no god! Now obey us!
>other men
We say there is a god. Obey him!

What to choose. What to choose...

>current
That suggests there might be others after it
That suggests you don't know everything
But you're sure there is no god.
Riiiiiight.

>why is there all this devotion to the idea that there couldn't be a universe with a being that made this one?
Now we are getting to the more important questions. We are elevating from the 1:1 bible believer to: what if some other being created a new universe within theirs or we are just a simulation. That nobody can answer, but God is not what hardcore christians believe it to be, however you turn and twist it

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Are you done making up shit, I said Chrstians because it is the dominant religion in my country and on this board, not because 'I know it's the truth'. Next time you say 'Atheist', I'm going to say you're an unbeliever now.

also randomness is funny, ask a biologist, chemist or IT guy. Given enough time anything can happen

>That nobody can answer, but God is not what hardcore christians believe it to be
I don't understand. What do they think?

I notice the only religion or faith atheists get their ass warm about is Christians. If you're telling the truth, and there is no god and this is that important, because these religious people believe it is important with the ideas of heaven and hell and sin and stuff, why don't atheists leave christian countries and preach this stuff in mud slime areas? See what happens.

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A being existing before existance itself and him creating all universes to just populate earth. Ask a christian, how they think stars existed before humans and the answer will be a facepalm. Also ask them if we should colonize mars or do space programs

Randomness? I admit I don't much about all of this, but sounds a little sketchy to believe in.

I mean, we know a lot. Most of the stuff we don't know is only unknown because we haven't encountered it yet. If you choose to believe that God just sits out there, always avoiding our scope of understanding, always remaining uninvolved in what we now understand... that doesn't sound like a good God. Or the Christian one, Muslim one, or really any god that supposedly created everything.

So you don't believe in lottery winner?

...

Because humans, unlike gods, are real and have the ability to observe what's happening and draw a sensible conclusion.

As opposed to "a magic man did it."

Between the two, the amount of faith required to believe in what is seen with one's own eyes is substantially less than that required to believe in a magic man in the sky (or the planet Kolob).

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Because athiests usually inhabit first world countries, which are cohabited in majority by Christians. Confluct naturally arise and ideas clash.

So you must live in a majority Christian region then, right? Want to hear something super weird? Atheists in the middle east are often on about Islam while atheists in India often fight Hinduism, and in Japan Shinto. Fucking weird, right?

All you fucks are retarded.
Atheists are stupid fucks because they admit they don't know everything, but are totally sure there is no god because hurr, they didn't see it yet.
religious people are stupid fucks because people have real questions about their jive, and they don't have their shit together to give a lot of people real reasons to believe "this one is the one."
I'm getting and beer and going to /s/. Fuck all you twerps.

I mean, I am throughly against Islam. To answer that question. Asking me why I don't become a missionary for atheism is pretty fucking funny though.

>are totally sure there is no god because hurr, they didn't see it yet.
Nope.

I don't know about sitting out there, but take step one, if there is a god, and he made his will known to people through the hands of man, wouldn't the first thing to do is whittle out which religions are shit and which ones actually have historical basis? How the fuck did slimy jews exist all these years alongside good jews? How did some of those bizarre events in their word happen in front of millions of people and no one wants to prove that didn't happen, and yet they couldn't have survived if it didn't? I just don't get any of this.

never saw a lottery take random atoms out of a universe make something as complex as DNA

Scientific theories and theories are not the same thing.

Then take cern and watch them creating molekules out of nothing

I know dozens of atheists and maybe only one is "sure" gods don't exist. In fact, most are rather soft on the position. But I bet you're stupid enough to be totally sure that Santa Claus or the magical lizard that lives in the Moon doesn't exist.

>admit they don't know everything
So they admit there is a god, but they don't see him?

So would a troop of retarded monkeys with rabies. Just because they think flinging shit and howling like retards is clever, doesn't mean it is.

Explain. I honestly don't know this because I graduated shit usa schools.

What's cern?

Just because something complex had small, simple beginnings doesn't mean it can't happen.
Take any major company that became a massive chain. It started small, and it was incredibly unlikely to achieve that massive success, but it did.

you don't know yet you shit on someone who says you're being shit to others because you don't know

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Same thing could be said for atheists. It's just that it's odd how religious people will kill and die for their faith, but those who are confident to mock religious people are the biggest cowards in the universe, even though they put themselves as superior to others.

>I did. It explains nothing

It explains a lot, and will inevitably lead to whatever model replaces it eventually.

Atheists don't know for sure. I don't know if there isn't A god. But I am sure it's not the Christian one, at least if holding him to his own character in the Bible.

A company is led by something that has intelligence. Random molecules turning into life? That's a different story.

Theory within science is a misnomer it is properly explained as a fact that may possibly be wrong. The TOE has been shown in action many times from the famous E.Coli experiments to lesser known ones, unless your holy book can show me with my eyes and other senses that a god probably exsists, and that the TOE is incorrect with provable circumstance that can be replicated in a lab, then I will praise your God as I praise Keku.

Faith would work, or indoctrination from a young age. Which is pretty common.

Usually it's brain damage or an inability to accept reality that turns people around tough

And if that model shows there is a parallel universe with a deity, what then? We don't know. I'm more agnostic myself.

Do you mean jewish too? Why do you think that?

How are atheists cowards?

They attack only religious folks they figure won't set them on fire or toss them off a building. If you're right, why be shit about it?

Alright, lets take something inorganic. Right angles are statistically a near impossible formation in nature. However, given enough time, you can see crystals that form complex patterns including right angles. It was incredibly unlikely that we would see the pattern that was formed in the end, but it formed nonetheless

Atheists will "attack" religious folks that actively kill atheists.

>That suggests there might be others after it

There will be.

>That suggests you don't know everything

We don't, and never will.

>But you're sure there is no god.

Objectively, no one is or ever will be, however specific gods such as the Abrahamic one can be ruled out due to it's contradiction with observed reality.

>Riiiiiight.

See the pic I posted? That is you. That is how I see you in my head

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how did dna get to be int he double helix shape and not in the shape of a beer can. that's what i want to know, m8.

The staggering number of contridictions found in the Bible lead me to believe it was created by people and not an all-knowing being.

t. enlightened agnostic fag

Dude, I know atheists who attacked religious people without being attacked first. People are shit no matter who they are.

Arguing with idiots not understanding what randomness really is is just fruitless. Don't bother, they would also not understand how the bible would be able to be found in pi

Sure, but religion is a big cause of making people shit.

>Objectively, no one is or ever will be, however specific gods such as the Abrahamic one can be ruled out due to it's contradiction with observed reality.
Yeah no, you're wrong on all counts.
>See the pic I posted? That is you. That is how I see you in my head
That takes a lot of faith, doesn't it? You don't know for sure.

Because beer cans weren't invented yet, unfortunately. Would've been a much better choice tough.

Contradictions? Like what?
Also if atheists openly say they don't know everything, but they are sure of one thing, there is no god, that's a major contradiction.

>ow did dna get to be int he double helix shape
chemistry and physics, That is even easy to answer, the helix is the easiest and most stable structure to maintain.
You should have rather asked how molekules can form a bacteria.

No, human nature is the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.
I need another beer.

Bro like what if DNA was just in the shape of a DVD and we all didn't notice it.

In the sense that human nature gives rise to things like religion, sure.

where da fuq did the rules of chemistry and physics come from? so the dna followed rules that's there, but somehow those rules got there because of atheist fairy magical dust?

Molecules bro ya 'av been typing it wrong.

>Yeah no, you're wrong on all counts.
Wait, he wrong on ALL counts? What do you use to disprove the other gods then? Do they all comport with reality too?

What if it was in the shape of big boobs?! Like Double-D cup boobs? All hell, we need an anime character for DNA with a huge rack.
DNA-Chan

Because scientific models have predictive capabilities, while on the other hand the word of god, the bible and praying don't offer any useful information.

The hydrophobic effect. It has Hydrophobic core and hydrophilic outside

atheism is a religion, m8. don't make me glass ya, ya cunt

Randomness and chaos are not the same things. It's actually quite difficult for computers to generate random numbers. People usually settle for chaotically generated ones instead, which for such purposes as lotteries, work well enough, since most people don't understand enough about either to even wonder if there's a distinction.

It isn't though d00d.

my bad, my country spells them with K
From randomness you just said was impossible due to how the dna is

i don't get it. if this effect is real, how the hell did that happen? What cuased things to have this effect?

We dunno bro, but ain t that a better answer than saying a magic man did it all and we gotta give said magic man cash through his servants?

Christianity is like old ass scientology. Js

You right. This needs too happen mate.

The devoted would say so, as it is written in the book of Blind Faith, Chapter 1, verse 1, thus sayeth shitheads who don't know everything, "Just say it's not a religion when it really is. Now buy Richard Dawkins' book and wear a fedora."

Actually people are paid to create real random numbers: they have a list of long passwords and choose one just by throwing a dice. That is real randomness. And that can be projected to our multiverse idea. It is most likely that our universe bubble is the only one to sustian higher life.

Physics.

The arrangement of charges of the individual molecules of the DNA, molecules are made from atoms which are made from subatomic particles

I don't like hats though.

I want that job, sounds super easy

>From randomness you just said was impossible due to how the dna is
What the fuck is wrong with you. You can't get laws in the universe through randomness. Make a universe and demonstrate me how that happens. A fucking computer game has to have someone put in the laws of the game or it doesn't get made. da hell

What made physics?

I am sure that the Christian god doesn't exist. There's a debate tool I really like using with Christians; starting with the presupposition that the Bible is the inerrant word of god, something that all Christians believe. I like starting with that, because that means ANY mistake that is found disproves that premise

What made things so this was possible?

Is there a list of mistakes I can look at?

Who says physics was made?

The real edition is does she wear thigh highs?

The type of matter and its distribution

Don't talk in circles.

>Make a universe and demonstrate me how that happens.
I see, you are not common with hawkins calcs on creating a new universe with a lhc that would defy all our physics. I hope one day some mad NSA scientist is allowed to build that and eradicate us just to show how other universes are different to outs.

Okay. Now answer the question.

I got a question for all the squabbling people!
Okay let's say there is a god. And he wants to talk to people before the inventions of internet, video cameras and all that nonsense. This god tells people to write down what he says. What are you to do? Wait 5000 years until someone has a smart phone and then tell somebody?

Take 100 sided dice, roll it a 1000 times. What's the probability of roll 10 50s in a row? Now roll it 10000000 times, what the probability? Now roll it an infinite amount of times, what is the probability?

Currently only 3 people are doing that job, a girl on the west coast, a young MIT student and one in spain. If you offer your service in other areas you can earn a fortune, companies pay a fortune for real random numbers

If something was made, why couldn't there be another dimension with another universe? I saw Star Trek. they had religious people. If they can believe it, why can't it happen?

because you can't have a set of laws in existence without a beginning. It's like the question to religious people about who made god.

Wow, even indeed has jobs for fags to roll a dice all day long. Who wants to do that tedious work.

An actual god wouldn't need to wait for humans to invent anything and wouldn't need to rely on human recording devices. It could simply directly convey knowledge to all humans and have it continuously conveyed through all generations.

But those dice only have numbers from 1 to 100. To make something that never existed before, something outside the bounds of 1 to 100, life, you can't create something out of something not present. It's like putting cheery cola into a DNA and expecting a sonichu. it just doesn't compute.

You mean talk to people and tell them to write it down and preach it. Okay, so some "holy" book must be true, just which one?

I'm not disputing that there's a beginning. I'm disputing the idea that this beginning necessarily has a cause.
> It's like the question to religious people about who made god.
Right, and the answer is similar. The big difference is that we observe that the universe exists, but we don't observe that gods exist. We can simply save a step.

>You mean talk to people and tell them to write it down and preach it.
No, that isn't what I mean at all. There would be no need for anyone to write it down or preach it, because everyone would have it imprinted in their minds.

>To make something that never existed before, something outside the bounds of 1 to 100
100 years ago scientist already thought about things defying our laws of physic. The most common person is lovecraft. Turns out, you can write about different physics but can't reproduce it.

What if evolution is leading life to god?

Biblical cosmology, the law of quarantine, rituals concerning making the sick well again, myths such as the tower of babel, the flood, etc.

So much of this is false. The bible can't even stay unternally consistent. Burial sites will move around, the origins of names change, and even the behavior of god himself changes.

Look up Akeldama. Tell me how it got it's name.

No imagine that the elements of the periodic table exist in the universe and now the universe has X amount of rolls to get the right combination and so far has about 14 billion years to make to those rolls. Also because of chemical properties like hydrophobic vs hydrophilic, etc drive the chemistry forward

Evolution isn't goal oriented.

>I'm disputing the idea that this beginning necessarily has a cause.
I don't have faith enough for that. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Not even a joke, old and new testament never called humans as sheep, but as children and often enough said that humans need to become equal to gods.

But what if that god wanted to do it his way and not yours to see how you respond? We can come up with cool ways, but if there is a god, he has his will in his desire to communicate with people.

It doesn't require any faith to not accept a claim that hasn't been proven. Also, reality is under no obligation to make sense to you.

Why did the jews put all those genealogies in their book though? I don't get it.

I get the chemical part, but life isn't a chemical. It's something more.

then what the fuck good is it? spinning wheels? fuck that. sounds like trash

>But what if that god wanted to do it his way and not yours to see how you respond?
Well an actual god would already know how I'd respond.
>he has his will in his desire to communicate with people.
Alright, well if a god who goes about things this way also punishes people for not believing, then this god would be an asshole.

>but life isn't a chemical
uhm, yes, it yet still is. We are just a mass of chemical reactions.

I don't know about you, man, but neither side is proving it to me. It's just the religious fanatics in this thread are bringing up logical questions and no one is answering them.

No it's not. DNA only exists the way it does because of chemical and physical laws.

ok, thinking about it, now it makes sense why god said, he will abandon us and eden so we can shepperd his creation

Correction to my statement here. Life IS just chemical reactions

>Well an actual god would already know how I'd respond.
I don't think so. I heard from some people that the world is kind of like a testing chamber. I don't know if I'm using the right word because it's been a while. Everything about human life is basically to make us in a state where we have needs, and the opportunity to do right and wrong and have that god say what is right and wrong. Some people will surprise you. They'll do right one day and not the next. IDK man.
>Alright, well if a god who goes about things this way also punishes people for not believing, then this god would be an asshole.
That's just like your opinion.

The whole point of "my side" is that it hasn't been proven.

Then you can't be guilty of doing anything wrong because you can just say it's a chemical reaction.

>It's just the religious fanatics in this thread are bringing up logical questions
I want to see those questions, tbh. Because most trolls got shredded to pieces in this thread.

What put those laws into work?

>I don't think so.
I do. An entity that wouldn't know the result beforehand would not be a god.
>That's just like your opinion.
One that I should think most people would share if you switch out god for a human.

Neither has yours, so stop being a dick.

Yeah nah, you're a cunt.

The summation of individual properties of the atoms in the DNA molecule

Sure you can. I can just say my chemical reactions are declaring you guilty and punishing you.

Since my side is "it hasn't been proven", yes, my side has been proven.

>Then you can't be guilty of doing anything wrong because you can just say it's a chemical reaction.
Are we now moving to a meta plane? You doing something reactionary doesn't mean you can't later reflect it. Ethics may be subjective, but ethics is older than the old testament.
That power elevates us over animals, we were able to feel regret 100k years ago

>I do. An entity that wouldn't know the result beforehand would not be a god.
You're defining a god? Why is it out of the realm of possibility that the god could create something with its own will? That doesn't make any sense.

sounds like crap. you didn't answer the question. if those properties exist, how did they come to be? why, atheist god why?

So, you are a troll too? Or are you just one of the "just pretending to be retarded" fags?