Why do liberals keep using vague euphemisms like “reproductive rights”, “reproductive choice” and “women’s rights” instead of saying what it actually is, such as “killing off the fetus” or “getting rid of the fetus”?
Health organizations and doctors use language like “killing off the cancer cells” or something very direct like that all the time when they’re explaining the process to patients, why aren’t they that direct when dealing with abortion?
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Just let them kill their babies. Their is no God, love is not real, evolution will take care of it.
That’s not the right thing to do though, to just sit by and watch. Something has to be done to stop it
why?
so what if people want to kill their babies?
who gives a shit?
Myself and a fuckload of other conservatives
sure, but *why* do you care?
Check out the edge on this guy
Because other conservatives told him to
Can't we just use something like a dough rolling pin. To steam roll the belly, and yeet those little fuckers out the canon hole on a flesh bungee?
Got a problem with that liberal piece of shit?
Call it whatever you like.
A fetus isn't a person and even if it WERE a person, no person has the right to make use of another person's body whether they need it or not.
And the government damn sure shouldn't be able to force you to let someone or something else use your body against your will.
Period.
still waiting
why do you care what other people do with their unborn babies?
Being a lemming? Personally, yeah. But if you wanna think a certain way because someone else said so be my guest. I just don't imagine life being very fun that way
Because abortion is murder
>killing off the fetus
>getting rid of the fetus
Deletus the Fetus
Who really gives a shit? It's in the woman's body. If it's alive, why do we start counting its age when it transcends the vaginal canal, and not before? Why does anyone give a fuck what someone does with their unborn child? A fetus is more of a parasite to the female body than it is an individual. Just admit you think god would be upsetti spaghetti about it, and you think it's the "right" thing to do, to ban abortions. Should we charge men with multiple homicides every time they ejaculate too? What's makes the fertilization process that much different? Keep your faggot religious zealot bullshit out of our government, we'll be much better without it.
so, you don't support child support?
i get that you think that,
but so what?
why do you care that some people "murder" (abort) their unborn children?
Certainly i do. How do you feel those two issues are analogous?
This!
Anyone who shorts their child should get the chair!
What a fucking hero you are. Do you and all the other dipshits like you have a job or anything, or do you just sit around on your ass all fucking day and think about what other people should be allowed to do with their own shit? Closet the fucking batsuit my dude.
why?
muh trump
Batman, you’ve really run out of good villains haven’t you
Personally I don't give a shit. It's a not a baby. A fetus is not a baby, and often it's not even a fetus being aborted.
Besides, stupid people don't understand anything. If you don't choose your words carefully, they'll throw a hissy fit, placing more value on a tiny, mindless, unfeeling lump of cells that could one day, if the roll of the die is fortunate, turn into a baby instead of the real-world currently living and feeling human mother (and father).
There's really not a great reason to believe human life starts at the split second of conception. Sure, it's easier, but I have zero qualms letting doctors decide the ethics of abortion. I am not educated in that shit.
So yeah, terminating some cells - killing that life, if you get bitchy and accuse me of obfuscating - is far, far, far less bad than forcing a young woman who's totally and utterly unprepared and unwilling to face the extreme responsibility of raising another human. Exceptions and anecdotal evidence aside, people born under these circumstances often do far worse than other people.
In short, while I understand the distaste of having to accept a moral grey area and give the responsibility of solving it to doctors, it's so very clearly the most reasonable approach to this subject.
user I thought we went over this the other day. Your underage is showing. Quit being such a massive faggot.
t. i watched rick and morty
shut up nihilistic faggot
Because abortion is murder, and I, as a conservative, believe they should get the highest punishment. The death penalty.
>Why do liberals keep using vague euphemisms like “reproductive rights”, “reproductive choice” and “women’s rights” instead of saying what it actually is, such as “killing off the fetus” or “getting rid of the fetus”?
It's a woman's right to get rid of the fetus. Are you happy now. Worry about your own life and why you haven't done anything with it, rather than some undifferentiated cells with less intelligence than a shrimp.
Because conservatives are too retarded to understand context. They'll go all "hurr durr murder" if we don't use more descriptive language.
It's like when you're talking to a two year old. You need to be more descriptive with your words because they don't understand how the world works.
>not a person
You, don't get to make that distinction. You don't. You live in a country, you didn't start one. You have public representatives, you are not a representative of people. If you love in Alabama, your representatives decided life begins at a heart beat.
IF life begins at a heart beat, which I would imagine it begins earlier. Considering the definition is vaguely "the separation between plants and animals from in organic matter" a fetus is INDISPUTABLY organic matter. Killing the organic matter is murder.
The fetus is a citizen of their mother, i.e a mexican baby isn't an American unless born in america up to that point the baby is Mexican. So the child, the being, the organic material. Growing inside the future lawyer that decided she just can-not-wait until she can consent to a pregnancy to get dick, has to die.
Lets be very clear, consent to sex is consent to pregnancy.
So you want to give women the right to disregard their life creating capacity to the EXTREME of taking away a life. Not a plant life, not an insectoid, women don't give birth to dogs. It will be human, it has unique DNA.
And if you claim rape as a somehow game changing phenomenon. Guess what bud, when you're raped, you know it. You don't find out you were raped 6 weeks after it happens, you take precautions.
Seems more direct then a bunch of old fucks saying "I disagree with abortion because I can".
>look up the definition of life before you spew your regurgitated thoughts
neck yourself
A life is a life, would you care if someone murdered your family without repercussions?
According to your logic, you wouldn't.
if murder by definition is 'the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.', then what is abortion?
Why should someone be forced to take care of a child they dont want if women dont have to take care of a child they dont want?
Because it's not your pussy,
go mind your own business and quit thinking up ways to get into someone else's.
Fucking conservatives, always trying to stick government in everyone's shit because they think they're holy or some shit.
Grow the fuck up.
Reminder than earlier than 8 weeks it is an EMBRYO, not a fetus. After 8 weeks it is a FETUS all the way until it is born, at which point it is a baby.
Thank you for using scientific terms correctly.
no u
Conservatives are a bunch of rich people telling poor people “hey we are just like you”.
Anyone who believes that is a fucking moron and you have no hope of engaging with them
Embryos grown in vitro don't count because they're not inside a woman.
The vagina is conservatives big fucking obsession, not morality.
>unfeeling lump of cells
When is it not an unfeeling lump of cells?
wow this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. It's like you're just stringing random words together and hoping they mean something.
Poor people are, too dumb to use contraception? Deal with it you fucking poverty stricken fag.
but that's circular logic
you said anyone who murders their unborn fetus should be executed; I asked why
your reason can't be that it's murder; I already accepted that you call it "murder"
i'm asking why you think the fetus-murderer should be punished
GIVE BIRTH OR KEEP YOUR LEGS SHUT FILTHY WOMAN WHORES
I know, its frustrating to be on the wrong side of logic and reason. You just can't beat it.
When it's pulled out and dead.
checkmate.
Fetus just means unborn baby.
to work for someone you don't want to work for is to have someone use your body against your wishes
neck yourself
because they take into account the woman's experience through pregnancy which is not addressed by the term killing the fetus
But it has nothing to do with your family, it has nothing to do with you period, so why care?
How many unwanted children have you adopted?
Brutal.
>You, don't get to make that distinction. You don't
Sure i do.
But that's because i've actually bothered to think about it.
A person i a being who possesses self-awareness as well as the continuity of that self reaching into the past and stretching into the future.
This being has moral agency. They are capable of making moral judgements and are responsible for the consequences of those judgements.
A person can think independently, reason and rationalize. They can be empathetic or cruel. They may understand the position of another person. They have the ability for introspection. They can self examine and think about thinking.
A fetus has none of those qualities. It's not a person, it's at BEST a non-sentient animal and even that is being charitable because even a grasshopper has more self-awareness than a fetus.
>consent to sex is consent to pregnancy
No.
It isn't.
Good answer.
Syntax means a lot, that's why conservative propaganda shirks it at every opportunity.
Were/are you unwanted? And what standard do you use to determine who is wanted (or unwanted) and who isn’t?
There's a big difference between having to give up your money and having to give up our body.
Because your logic is shared by the people that agree with child murder.
That would be a scary place to live, where I can just go murder your entire family without consequences.
Sounds pretty degenerate to me.
wow you figured that out all by yourself, here's a cookie
Because they broke a law, and if it wasn’t for laws we would all be animals, they haven’t got any laws, only the law of the jungle, and that’s not got an effective court system because indigenous people just beat an oil company over some land in the amazon so it’s not proper laws.
And as soon as the babies are born, you could care less about the health of the baby.
I addressed who gets to determine when the origin of life starts as a society, if you don't like it, then move.
I addressed the definition of life since thats what is up for debate.
I addressed the fact that a woman neglecting her responsibilities is the number 1 cause of abortions.
I then added an answer to, what I would consider the exception to the murder of a child. A mother having to carry a rape baby to full term is bad. Luckily, babies don't have a heart beat before plan B pills work for 40 bangin-bucks.
No google told me, long ago.
It's still a baby.
You know, a human being?
You like to call it a fetus to dissociate from the fact that you agree with child murder.
Having parents who want to raise you, you fucking retard. How is that for an obvious answer.
And where are the children you adopted, again?
My entire family isn't parasitically living in the womb of a woman that's asked you to help her get rid of these abominations inside of her.
Who’s asshole did you pull that fallacy out of?
WHy the fuck you fuckin shitbirds enslaving fucking babies? Look at that, you've already cuffed an infant. Probably to butt-rape his bunghole and teach him "the glory of Christ and also but more importantly crony capitalism Republican-style!"
Nice opinion there m8
I'm defending a human's life
Its human, there's no debate about that
And I'm abiding by the definition of life
Your 7th grade philosophy C+ doesn't change anything. And doesn't remove the power of the government we reside under. If you don't like it, run for election, or leave.
I'll take that as none.
How can you just sit by and watch?
>You like to call it a fetus to dissociate from the fact that you agree with child murder.
No, it's called a fetus in order to differentiate it from a baby that's been born and is fully developed and able to survive on its own. That's literally all it is: a scientific medical term, you literal moron.
It's not my fault you are literally afraid of words.
Terminating a pregnancy is a commonly used term.
How many unwanted children have you adopted?
The NY lawmakers tried passing one that would allow child murder after dilation.
Is it a parasite when it's trying to get out?
Because secretly you're a cuck who wants to raise all the babies.
Responses in thread answer your question OP. If you don't acknowledge it by using euphemisms, your conscience will let it slide and you won't feel guilty. The replies here label what every pro-choice person think.
"Who cares if they kill children?"
It'll be outlawed.
How about the obvious statistics of how many unwanted kids are in foster care and orphanages, and how many kids in America have poor healthcare and poor access to good education.
Mad about abortion.
Gives 0 shits about babies living in the conditions that abortion was intended to prevent.
It's political division that the argument is based on, not the morality of taking care of life.
If conservatives cared as much about life as they do about what's in a womans cunt then maybe there wouldn't be a need for abortions in the first place.
But lets allow the conservative media to get us to focus on a symptom while ignoring the overall problems.
Babies can survive on their own?
How long after birth is this possible, brainiac?
I didn’t adopt any kids, you have to be married and go through a rigorous legal process to even be qualified. So you think that the only standard for whether a baby is wanted or unwanted depends entirely on whether the parents want him or her? If so, you just negated your argument for adoption
Abortion is such an interesting issue and as an atheist who thinks its a little fucked up, I don't know what to think, because neither side really has any good argument. I dont like kids, I dont think we need more people running around, but at the same time its just a little...Uncouth.
The left has nothing but "MUH BODY" but that argument is severely lacking in nuance. Your body, your choice? So can I go to a public place and whip my dick out and start jerking off, since its my body, my penis? Why should the government be able to dictate what I do with my body? Oops, guess "my body, my choice" isnt quite as profound as you think it is. Your rights end where they begin to collide with someone elses. Does a fetus have rights? Well, to the left the answer is no.
The right never knows how to make a not-stupid argument because they drag god into everything. And it just makes it painful to listen to and try to argue logic with. Its not a creation of god, its a creation of ours - which to me is just as important, because its a real argument that we can move forward with.
I dont know. It should probably be legal, mainly because I cant stand hearing bitches screetch it my ear about it. But I will admit that hearing someone has done it does make me feel like they are probably a little bit of a fucking cunt with no moral fiber.
Whats also interesting is pro-abortion people typically don't agree with late term abortions, but can't ever seem to define an actual line between when "late" actually is or isnt, and what the distinction is. Whats the difference between the fetus at day 90 and day 91? I don't know when they develop the ability to feel pain but maybe thats a good cut off? Whenever they develop some form of consciousness?
Maybe whores should stop whoring. INB4 "muh rape" most abortions are not post-rape. They are post-you being a whore.
Those kids are free to work hard to get a good education and healthcare. You're not a fucking socialist who gets things handed to you in America.
So abortionists kill babies because of possible living conditions?
When did this happen?
Well, not a conservative, but I agree. Why mince words. I think women, and also men, should have the choice to terminate a pregnancy if we want to.Life isn't precious, and if it was we wouldn't be murdering one another constantly, putting each other to death or going to war. A baby isn't innocent, because innocence is as abstract a concept of guilt. And if you want to come down to it, they're being killed/terminated/whatever for being a financial burden, a time consumer and you shouldn't have to pay for 18 years for a 5 second orgasm because you can't stand fucking condoms, she won't do anal and sometimes a good fuck is worth a potential babies life, the same as stepping on an ant that might have held the key to the future evolution of their species into sentience. And if you use "god" as a reason not to, nobody gives a shit. The same way you twist scripture to suit your beliefs, so do liberals. Yours is the angry bearded white guy that kills. Theirs is some woman who's unfunny and whiny when they dont get what they want, and niggers god is some coon that promises dead niggers that were shot by cops all the car stereos, blunts and white women they want, but ultimately ends up in prison and they're on their own for eternity.
So yes, we want to kill babies rather than be inconvenienced or have our orgasms be less pleasurable. It's absolutely worth a life and to answer your inevitable question: what if my mom aborted me, i'd have not been conscious then, and wouldn't know or give a shit.
Source: I'm a guy who got 3 chicks pregnant since he was 19 (last one was 31) and they all had abortions.
and yes, i do expect you to read all that shit.
That is nothing but a meme arguement. That's the arguement used for refugees. I'm not the mother, I didn't tell her to take that dick, I didn't tell her that she wouldn't get pregnant if she took that dick. I'm only stating, that sex leads to a baby. And if you can't handle a baby, murder isn't the answer, a vibrator is.
No one's talking about murdering children, this is about a family making an intelligent decision to remedy a stupid mistake, if you want to call abortion murder that's fine, but you can't abort anyone's child but your own.
Therefore there is absolutely no way it can ever affect a family or person outside your own sphere of influence.
>things that dont happen to me directly have no importance
retard
/thread
Survive without medical intervention, dumbass. Of course babies need care and attention. Even 7 year olds need parents to feed them and care for them. Do you want to redefine any person who can't work a job and pay for their own food as a baby? Go ahead, it wouldn't be the dumbest thing you've done.
Do you think those kids are all saying, "I wish my mother aborted me"?
No, it absolutely doesn't. You have no say in this. Just shut the fuck up and worry about some other fake right wingtard problem.
>Those kids are free to work hard to get a good education and healthcare
Yes, 6 year olds are free to work jobs and pay for their schooling. They can take night classes.
You're so dumb it makes me sad for you.
virgin alert
You keep throwing the word “unwanted” around and I’m afraid you’re using it in the sense that the Nazis did.
Abortion is about eugenics and control for black people. They can’t own slaves anymore so they find other ways of governing their plantation
No, they're kids, and often when they go unadopted into their teens they end up self aborting anyway.
>killing
Tissue only, less alive than cancer and amoebas until the 7th month of gestation when it takes over its homeostasis. Up to that point, it's not alive, conscious, aware or anything else. It's part of the woman's body, hence bodily autonomy, hence HER. FUCKING. CHOICE.
Do you think there’s a bunch of foetus ghosts saying “I wish I wasn’t aborted”?
False; you are a retard.
Should have been aborted.
Sure it can, it has social impacts.
How many girls kill their babies every year?
How many did it before abortion was legalized?
Were they as promiscuous then?
Why not?
Were they smarter about who they had casual sex with?
Were they smarter in general regarding sex?
Kill yourself you fucking imbecile.
I wish he would’ve been aborted
The world would be a MUCH better place! Like bigly, Huuuuge!
>Nice opinion there m8
If you think any of the qualities do not more accurately describe personhood than "has human DNA" then please make your case.
Otherwise you're just making an appeal to emotion, not a logical argument nor a defense of your position.
I'd agree that it's human.
But it's not a person.
But don't allow your frustration over your inability to advocate meaningfully for your point of view cause you to miss the point i made previously:
Even if it were a person, it would still have no right over another person's body whether its life depends on it or not.
>I wanted to grow up and work a $8 minimum wage cuck-job on behalf of the Republican political movement
Do you think the fetuses who were aborted were thinking "I wish my mommy had let me be born?"
No, because they can't think and are just a bunch of cells and reflexes.
I hope you're a vegan if you're this obsessed with unsentient life.
>Of course babies need care and attention.
Couldn't you make the argument that they're still a parasite after birth then?
And if so, why can't your parents abort you for living in their basement at 20+ years old?
Giving a mother the ability to terminate her ultimate responsibility doesn't stop orphanages from swelling up, you would have to mandate free abortions. Settle down.
What stops women from having all those babies is RISKS, taking actual responsibility for the dick they take.
holy shit you sound like a FAGGOT
doctors would say, theyre undergoing leukemia, (which is the most common process of killing off cancer cells.)
doctors would say theyre having an abortion. (which is what the process is, and theyd say it is killing the fetus, if someone as dense as you had to get it explained to them)
Being in other peoples business doesn't make it your business, nor does it = affecting you.
Nice arguement bud
>I'm a guy who got 3 chicks pregnant since he was 19 (last one was 31) and they all had abortions.
Why yes, abortion is for retards who don't fuck with birth control or condoms or a vasectomy.
Shit, I dont know whats worse - letting retards like you off the hook for fucking ugly whores and being retarded, or forcing you retards to live your retarded life with your retard spawn on my planet.
Why can't you brainiacs answer those simple questions?
It's funny because you Trump tards are always in here screaming about "niggers" and how you hate them, but then you want all these unwanted black kids to be born to terrible mothers with no fathers, and repeat the cycle of violence and lack of education that leads to a black dude mugging you on the street.
Ahh, so you want someone else to take care of those kids.
If you really cared about those poor unwanted fetuses you would be adopting as many as you can.
>And if so, why can't your parents abort you for living in their basement at 20+ years old?
I'd be okay with that. Yea Forums would be a lot better afterward.
They don't want to admit its murder.
Conservatives, what do you want to do when you force a woman to have a baby she can't afford? You ok with your tax money going toward helping that child with welfare? No? How about the child going hungry then? Still no? But you won't pay anything to help it out, right? It costs you nothing to let her abort.
dont act all high and mighty faggot.
nothing in this world matters if it doesn't affect you. this is why you give more shits about abortions than starving niglets in africa. YOU care because it somehow affects YOU. not because it is generally bad.
Abortion is fucking murder. The nazis didn’t think sending Jews to Auschwitz was “murder” because to the nazi, Jews weren’t people.
So you’re no better off than a eugenist and a fucking nazi.
I was pro choice till people wanted late term abortion. Hell in NY you can abort after birth. You can kill kids if they survive abortion. Liberals had to reverse laws that say If you kill a pregnant woman you are killing 2 people. So double murder. Can't have that it work allow abortion laws to work.
So 1st trimester abortions I am on board. But once you asked for all of the above. I joined the pro life camp. Those people are much more caring and understanding. Abortion is used as birth control and not something that is safe and rare.
Do you eat meat?
>I've bothered to think about it
>A person i a being who possesses self-awareness as well as the continuity of that self reaching into the past and stretching into the future.
This being has moral agency. They are capable of making moral judgements and are responsible for the consequences of those judgements.
Clearly you've not thought very hard, as this definition excludes amnesiacs, dementia patients, comatose patients, sociopaths, and children among many others. There's nothing wrong with abortion, but if you think that's a satisfactory definition of personhood you're dumber than the trumptard.
What stops women from having unwanted babies is easy access to and education about birth control methods like the pill, IUDs, and condoms.
But conservatives can't even get behind that. It's really pathetic.
i dont care if you kill a deer/cow/pig for your own benefit (to eat)
i dont care if you want to kill a 2 month old fetus which is basically just goldeen at that point. if you deem it the best situation rather than orphaning it or raising it in the fucking ghetto or hillbilly swamp.
go for it.
kill goldeen.
Since when does b care about abortion? Daddy trump told em to? Look at you pathetic faggots
lol thinking human life is precious. There's 7 billion of us, we're killing the planet slowly, and no one is special, including you, no matter what mommy told you.
If we agree its a human, and not a person.
I would ask you why a human has to die before it's a person because it has a shit fucking irresponsible mother.
It's dumby fucking easy
>a woman
>that doesn't want a baby
>can't afford it
>can't support it
>shouldn't have sex
It's that fucking easy
Consent to sex, is consent to the byproduct that is, a human who will become, a person.
I care less, for the careless mother. Than the innocent life.
Now you're starting to understand my point of view though, that would be a pretty sketchy place to live if those were the "norms" in said society.
What's funny is the people advocating for such things wouldn't last long in that society, they've be killed off by others stronger and more barbaric than them.
Do you eat meat? Where do you draw the line of murder?
Nice try bud, like i said. Consent to sex, is consent to a child. If they didn't have a get out of jail free card with a price tag attached. There would be LESS children in the system.
I have no guilt, and as hard as you try. Your arguement falls flat when all I insist on is holding the mother to her actions.
Imagine loving licking boots, Pat Robertson-level moral gymnastics and caring about fetuses specifically until they are born. Now add a lolli or trap obsession. This is the b/ that elected Trump
Actually, we do. Science and biology are the ONLY things that get to make that distinction, and the matter is completely settled.
Life has eight simultaneous requirements.
Human zygotes and embryos are never alive.
Human fetuses become living but non cognitive, incapable of thought, memory or awareness at right around the seventh month when it takes over homeostasis, which is the eighth and final requirement.
The fetus does not become cognitive or aware until a week to two AFTER BIRTH. The human brain has a shitload of surface area and it takes a while to fully form.
That's it. Long and short of it all. 7 months to life, 9 months plus a weekish to anything resembling a "person" according to the vast majority of society. The woman, on the other hand, has contributed to the economy, been trained/educated, worked, developed relationships, enjoyed happiness, made tens of thousands of memories. She's worth FAR more to society than the baby is even after it's born. Furthermore, you fucking subhuman rightwing RETARDS absolutely fail to grasp a very simple counterpoint: SHE CAN FUCKING MAKE ANOTHER ONE even if she aborts this one. It only takes nine fucking months to do. You subhumans want to punish or even kill her for ONE goddamn abortion or "suspicious" miscarriage and you're just going to deny her the potential to go make another one, two, three even? Seriously, on behalf of the entire intellectual community: anti-choice people: HIT YOURSELVES.
Well thats the thing, I paid for the deaths of three human beings and there's not a fucking thing you can do about it. I know it must absolutely burn you up inside, because on 2 of them I pressured them to.
On the first one, that was the best though. She was all for it. She was this gothy peurto rican chick that i was fucking (this was the first one, she was 19) and she was all fucked up and psychosexual nuts. Did a lot of crazy shit like go out with guys to rile me up and stuff.
Anyways, I knock her up, and we both are like "okay, we gotta get an abortion" so she comes directly back to my place and she's being helped in by her sister. So she's sitting in my bed and we're watching tv on this shitty black and white travel tv, and she starts kissing on me. Now this is like an hour and a half after she got home and maybe 3 hours after she had the abortion.
And I said whatever And I fucked her, nutted in her and i look down at my dick and theres these splotchy blood marks here and there and a couple smears and I realize I just fucked the corpse of my kid and came all over it, as if it was a celebration of its death.
Well, I was kinda fucked up about it but as I got older I actually found it kind of hot. Me and the chick broke up about 5 months after that.
Good times.
agreed
Meat isn’t murder because it’s a different species.
Does a grizzly bear “murder” a hiker in the woods who pissed him off?
Why do you give a shit? Because it’s systematic? My god, every b/tard on this site hates Jews,blacks, or women. All of a sudden you car because it could have been you? That’s som dumbass logic my guy. Funniest thing to me is how hurt of a butt you get when “Muh opportunity” the baby isn’t shit. It’s at zero, last thing we need is more incel, tiny dick, racist mfs running around like all of you. Inb4, “I’m trolling you.” Legitimately apply what I just said and tell me you aren’t a fucking bitch. We praise gore vids here but get upset over this? Man o man too soon, Tree fiddy, and incoming fake story.
>this is why you give more shits about abortions than starving niglets in africa.
No, prolife people care about the IDEA of helping babies, as long as they don't have to actually put any of their own work or money into it, ie helping others.
There's nothing more unchristian than christians in america
It's retarded, like in most cases the dad isn't around anyway in these situations anyway. And if y'all care so much than why don't you completely look after the child? But even still she gotta go through pregnancy and birth.
>A life is a life
that seems like an unrealistically black-and-white way of looking at the world
different peoples' lives have different value depending on a whole range of factors (eg. law-abiding citizens vs criminals, achievers vs losers/scroungers)
isn't it reasonable to suggest that one of those factors relates to whether a person's conception was intended and/or wanted?
if an unwanted pregnancy goes to full term, it could be agued that the resulting "life" doesn't have any intrinsic value
a child that was knowingly and intentionally brought into the world deserves all the protection as everyone else, hence why i don't endorse "child murder" in any broad sense
but a child that was never wanted essentially becomes nothing but a burden, and will most likely suffer a wretched existence
people like me that support choice of abortion aren't necessarily brainless SJWs or bloodthirsty satanists; we simply want to reduce the number of people in the world that are born into shitty lives
the world is overpopulated enough; we really don't need to be in a race to make sure every conception is carried through by law
tl;dr:
"murdering" (aborting) a fetus isn't great, but if the alternative is that the unwanted child is born into a shitty situation and lives a life full of misery, isn't it the lesser of two evils?
Abstinence is the only 100% birth control and thats free.
Don't like the price of college? Pick up a trade, your future children will be able to go to college.
It's the land of opportunity not the land of anyone can be whatever they want to be. And people are responsible for their actions.
If a drunk driver kills someone, the death doesn't absolve them of drunk driving. In fact! They're responsible for both. Deciding to get that drunk and get in the car (horny and have sex with someone that won't help you provide for a child) and kill a pedestrian (have an abortion)
Actually it means primordial human--life potentiated but not yet alive.
"unborn" is not an actual term, it's a forced bullshit misnomer just like "pro-life". Eggs are not chickens. Acorns are not trees. You are not intelligent.
The vast majority of these unwanted babies will result in either the kids themselves being wards of the state/government, or their entire fucking "family" being on Entitlements. You Conservitards should know this already. Stop trying to inflict your bullshit recidivist forced morality on the rest of America. Every life is NOT precious. Fucking morons
OH and a followup: this all happened the day Sam Kinnison died. We saw it on the 6:00 news that someone in a truck plowed into him.
Then i plowed her. And apparently my kid.
It’s killing an animal that’s more sentient than an unborn foetus
>implying all life should stand above a woman's abiltiy to decide at a reasonable time for herself whether she wants to support it
"Life" is not inherently magically special. We can make braindead body function for years and decades after any life that could possibly matter has ceased.
Unsurprising that I only get shitty, basically irrelevant counterarguments. Are you all just trolling or stupid? I have to lean towards the latter.
>When is it not an unfeeling lump of cells?
Did you not read what I wrote? Copy/paste of what I just fucking stated:
>I have zero qualms letting doctors decide the ethics of abortion. I am not educated in that shit.
And
>while I understand the distaste of having to accept a moral grey area and give the responsibility of solving it to doctors, it's so very clearly the most reasonable approach to this subject.
I can't answer your question, and you sure as fucking shit can't either. Let's let people who know wtf they're dealing with - due to many, many years in school - make that call, based on what's best for everyone, eh? Sometimes, that involves terminating a bunch of cells before they develop into something it'd be unethical to harm.
Man, you wrote all that shit. Are you telling me, that a fetus isn't alive? Man. That must make it inorganic. But... but wait... no..
Conservatives don't want to be forced to pay for it. Either because its wrong and they disagree or because its against their religion. They are ok with personal choice they just don't want to be forced.
I fully agree with that
Shut up. Pick up a book. And HIT YOURSELF. You are an embarrassment to the entire fucking human species.
the point dummy was that if we had fact based sex ed so people understood how pregnancy happens, access to contraceptive services so people can prevent pregnancies, and then policies designed to make it easier for people to care for the kids they have (child care, a robust safety net, and living wages for everyone who works full time) we wouldn't need as many abortions, and certainly not as birth control.
why aren't rich republican donors pouring money into artificial uteri so that all fertilized eggs are viable?
because none of this is about the sanctity of life.
it's about hating and controlling women.
don't talk to me about morality or conservatism. you don't honestly think it's conservative to force the police to investigate miscarriages. you never have a problem with sending poor fuckers to die in wars. you don't believe in supporting the sanctity of life once it's born.
you just hate women. and it shows. and you'll lose because of it.
america has a taliban, and now everyone can see.
weird that the side of the political spectrum that agrees with Hitler the most can somehow deduce this but cant deduce that the isolationism, nationalism, and racism they preach are core tenants of the nazi regime.
are you special or just retarded?
In fact these examples are far from novel for me.
Amnesiacs is a bad example because while they may not have continuity in the same way your or i do, you've made the mistaken of thinking that if you do not tick every box on the list then you don't qualify as a person.
As for dementia and the comatose, they at the very least they WERE once people and in my opinion deserve the respect and treatment which that entails.
Sociopaths are certainly capable of many of the qualities i mentioned and again, one not need check every box.
Children.
Now that's the one that's always interested me because when it comes down to it, before a certain age i don't think children really meet any meaningful requirements for personhood.
It is my opinion that their inclusion in the category is a product of unavoidable bias and emotional attachment more than anything else.
Is killing a mosquito on the wall of your living room wrong?
You just proved my point.
None of that affects you, it's nothing to do with your family, if you don't want abortions in your household than educate your children and raise them right in an effort to prevent it.
Or just don't reproduce.
Smh
kek.
all of them would be all for the death penalty, so some killings fine for mahjustice mahrevenge or hunting for mahfood. or for euthanasia.
but now this is focused as a left/right debate. they all become bigboi patriots.
this answer suggests you only care about abortion if there's a law against it
i'm guessing that's not true; if it was/is legal wherever you live, you'd still hold these views, right?
i'm trying to get to the root -- what's the underlying reason from your perspective that "murdering" an unborn "life" should be disallowed/punishable?
Double murder doesn't matter. It's a legal and criminal law term and definition, not a medical or scientific one. I could just as easily point out to you that the census doesn't count fetuses, therefore they aren't people/don't count. Equally invalid for this argument.
I already answered the TRUTH of your existence
YOU ARE A FAGGOT
you want me to do some higher level math proofs or something?
>the point dummy was that if we had fact based sex ed so people understood how pregnancy happens, access to contraceptive services so people can prevent pregnancies, and then policies designed to make it easier for people to care for the kids they have (child care, a robust safety net, and living wages for everyone who works full time) we wouldn't need as many abortions, and certainly not as birth control.
We have every single one of those.
That human has to die because they do not have the right to make use of a person's body.
>shouldn't have sex
>It's that fucking easy
It is that easy. But it's not realistic.
And since i'm living in the real world where people will be fallible, i'm content to uphold the right to bodily autonomy which i view as one of the most fundamental rights we have.
found the christian cuck
say what you will, she kept the darkie granny monkeymouth off the 20 till at least 2028. and probably won't ever happen.
take that, president nigger!
It affect the society you're living in.
ie; you, I and everyone around us.
Which episode of Naruto is this line from?
Organic means carbon-based. Yes, the primordial state tissues of the embryo and fetus are carbon-based and therefore organic.
Yeah, go for it.
false.
That's where you're wrong. When the mother invited the cock, she invited his baby.
It is realistic if there are repercussions. Less people drunk drive than would like because its illegal.
You know why
>vague euphemisms
It's not vague and it's not euphemisms. It is about the rights of the woman to carry the fetus to term or not. By law a fetus isn't a person, so why should a fetus get extra rights or more rights than the woman carrying it?
Only if you can't mind your own fucking business and want to push you religious morals down everyone's throat.
Otherwise, no, it affects no one but those involved.
So, if I killed someone, they did not have continuity into the future, as they no longer have a future. Therefore, it is just as justifiably to kill a fetus as a developed adult. This is continuitious with your logic.
You’ve gone from bear to mosquito. So I would argue a human is like a bear, and an unborn foetus is like an unformed unaware unthinking pile of matter
no we don't. we have abstinence only sex ed that your parents can opt out of. we don't have easy access to iuds and other methods of birth control that are much more effective than condoms. and we don't have affordable child care, you fuckers are always trying to cut wic, tanf, snap, and any other form of benefits. and we have a minimum wage that has not increased in purchasing power since the 1970s while everything has gotten more expensive.
if we didn't have republicans we wouldn't need as many abortions. it's just that simple.
So you’re basically a nazi. You believe in eugenics because you don’t want to be bothered with looking at a kid with Down’s Syndrome who sits at a bench at the local grocery store. To you, you’re better than him. You have all your senses and intellect, so to see someone disabled bothers you because you feel that they shouldn’t be allowed to exist.
So not only are you a eugenist and a nazi, but you’re also one of the most cold-hearted fucks on the face of this earth. You would rather murder him off than let him exist
We both know that's not true.
You can play stupid all you want, user.
Yes, we do.
Thank you for validating that it is organic and thus alive, grass is alive my guy. Lots of things are alive. The peas I'm eating in my meat pie were alive before they were killed, circle of life. Except the dirt didn't get seed planted inside of it, decide it doesn't want to sprout the pea, and ask the farmer to pluck it prematurely. No, it grew, because that's its function.
>It is realistic if there are repercussions
Certainly. And an abortion is one of the ways in which one deals with said repercussions.
prove it.
I kill mosquitos all the time. Never killed a bear but if I did I would take it to the butcher and pick up the meat the next day.
What’s your point user?
Are you a foster parent and are you willing to pay a shit load of taxes to take care of these unwanted babies that will go into state's care? If not, fuck off.
Trolling Incels.
what about rape?
I'm confused. Is 'organic' your only criteria for 'things we shouldn't kill'? Because good luck eating anything.
Of course a foetus is organic. So is my literal faeces. How is it relevant to the discussion? Specious argument.
Better than being stupid, user.
Stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours.
I'd rather kill you than let you stop an abortion.
Two useless fucks gone in one day is a win-win.
*fewer
And why do you pretend to know about consent when you're obviously a virgin?
You literally just did it for me.
fucking virgin. abstinence was forced onto you, not a choice lol.
false analogy there. most situations are like breaks not working, a guy pulling out infront of you (or in the case of sex a guy not pulling out of you/premature acceleration.. broken condoms precum or misdosing of birth control from your shitty medical system)
in the car analogy of a pulling out, or breaks not working, that would be manslaughter not murder.
>continuitious
A perfectly cromulent example of how fools embiggen themselves
Are you trying to claim you aren't a tremendous waste of space while arguing with random people on Yea Forums?
Sounds pretty stupid to me.
I am an egalitarian. We're about the furthest thing there is from hurr durr Nazis. I do not believe in eugenics. I simply acknowledge a handful of basic Biology facts that completely prove it is 100% acceptable to abort fetuses up to the 7th month and from the argument of Utility, I would add upto the point of birth for any situation that significantly endangers the woman. As previously stated, the woman is far more societally valuable than a non-aware, non-cognitive fetus.
Cause if you siad you will be killing a child people would flip out. I get rape or life of mother abortions i do. But the rest they just cum dumps acting like they saving a childs life.
I feel like you're half way there. Imagine, instead of holding the baby accountable for the mom taking a dick. You held the MOM accountable for going out and taking the dick. She might not take that dick right?
She might be the daughter of the mother that couldn't have an abortion. Her life, saved. Terrible mom, terrible environment. She decides to be above that, go to college, not fall for the first drunk college soon to be drop out's advances. And gets her degree, meets a provider, has a child, raises it properly.
In that obviously ideal scenario, responsibility did what it is supposed to do. It influenced decision making.
Not the user you are responding to, but you don't make sense my dude. Abandon ship and save face.
>the peas I'm eating were alive before they were killed.
I just lost about 3 IQ points.
Conservatives care about fetuses, but they don't care about other people. These are the people who don't want to pay for public education, social welfare programs, social security, healthcare.
They only care about abortions because their parents told them too (and good conservatives always blindly follow their parents).
If life is sacred, then you better start caring about poor people too...
If you eat meat and complain that abortions are murder and unfair to the life of a human being, you’re a hypocrite who has no value or concept of life and consciousness
You know you've been raped before six weeks, seek medical attention and get a plan B.
Did that person you killed have self-awareness? Were they a moral agent? Could they rationalize and make judgements?
Does the fetus?
Sorry but your example is not compatible with my logic.
It's a facile oversimplification in which you latch on to one single element of the definition of personhood.
so in a debate, when you make a claim, you have to justify it with evidence. i can't prove something doesn't exist. you claim it does. prove it. go ahead. i'll wait. i think you'll learn something if you actually do some research on sex ed, contraceptives, the social safety net, the minimum wage, and child care availability/affordability. the long and short of it is that you're ignorant, and willfully so, which is fine, but it renders your opinion invalid. womp womp.
Less of a waste than the useless lump of flesh you're trying to white knight.
>basic biology facts
Yea if you cut up a fetus with scissors, it dies.
That’s called murder.
>so in a debate, when you make a claim, you have to justify it with evidence
You provided the evidence, scroll back up.
He's like a child who just learned a new word and is trying it out.
when u fail basic biology but pretend u know what ur talking about
No man, nice try though. I can tell you're trying hard.
Criteria was
>alive
Organic
>human
Organic fetus in a human's womb
So I'm saying, don't kill organic babies.
Not don't kill organic, the pea was an analogy m8
Debatable.
I like this criteria. If all conservatives ate only inorganic things, we could bleach them out of existence
diehard rightards would argue rape babies dont happen.
but lets be honest, they obviously do, especially in alabama and the hoods.
thats why a law is so fucking stupid, they should just de-incentivize it so people dont treat it like a trip to the dentist.
>If you love in Alabama, your representatives decided life begins at a heart beat.
I don't care what some uneducated American (tautology?) shitkickers decided.
Neither me nor my representatives should decide when an abortion is not longer defensible, or when it's necessary. Most certainly not in Alabama - an extra shitty speck of shit on the asshole that is the US.
Stating that something is "life" does not automatically make it infinitely valuable
>Killing the organic matter is murder.
Eh, then so is weeding out in my garden. I'm murdering all that organic matter! Please. Denying the termination of a fertilised egg is not more moral than damning at least 2 people to a likely life of ass.
>Growing inside the future lawyer that decided she just can-not-wait until she can consent to a pregnancy to get dick, has to die.
What the fuck?
>Lets be very clear, consent to sex is consent to pregnancy.
Why? Those are two completely and utterly different things. Especially since pregnancy is/should be optional
>So you want to give women the right to disregard their life creating capacity to the EXTREME of taking away a life. Not a plant life, not an insectoid, women don't give birth to dogs. It will be human, it has unique DNA.
Don't give a fuck what DNA it has - without a brain to feel or think anything whatsoever, it's simply not as important as a woman's right to choose. Most especially because no child deserve to be born to a parent who doesn't want it.
>And if you claim rape as a somehow game changing phenomenon. Guess what bud, when you're raped, you know it. You don't find out you were raped 6 weeks after it happens, you take precautions.
>implying rape victims always act totally and 100% reasonably and logically, and that we should expect this of them after they've faced severe trauma
Most important: Forcing a child on a mother who doesn't want it, or leaving it to the system, is worse than terminating it at an appropriate time as set by doctors
Well murder only applies to illegal killing of another human. Otherwise it's just killing. Even if it's another human and self defense, it's just killing if it's legal.
Next point. If you want to classify human rights as belonging only to completely developed humans, then everyone up to about late 20's isn't really a complete human physically or mentally. Can we kill them too. It's like comparing the stages of an insect that goes through metamorphosis. Where do we draw that line? Yes this is a stretch.
Last, I forgot.
you might not know you're pregnant? you might not be able to afford plan b?
how does it support freedom to have the government investigate miscarriages? do we really want the government asking women about heavy periods?
So by that reasoning I shouldn’t be allowed to eat plants either, since they’re alive too and cutting them is the same as murdering them?
>If life is sacred, then you better start caring about poor people too...
Which is another hypocritical point about conservatives in general. They rally against abortions because it "kills," they are completely okay with the death penalty? Pro-life isn't really pro-life.
>She might not take that dick right?
Wrong.
Banning abortion doesn't stop abortions and it certainly doesn't prevent unwanted pregnancies.
It turns out that getting people to stop having sex is virtually impossible.
Let's not pretend that without having to carry the baby to term there are no dissuading consequences to an unwanted pregnancy.
SAVE THE TUMORS!
I BRAKE FOR ADVANCED MELANOMA!
How DARE you cut out that cancerous growth, it's ALIVE you fucking murderer!
>cutting up a fetuses it dies
Unless it was month 1-6.9, in which case it was never alive to begin with except in the cellular sense, but tissues in complex organisms give up their ability to sustain their own mono cellular life for specialized colony-based duties.
>"killing" a fetus is murder
Murder is a legal term, specifically the unlawful premeditated killing of a living human being by another human. As previously proven and discussed AD NAUSEUM, fetuses in the first two trimesters are not fucking alive, so they cannot be the subject of murder.
Fetuses don't commit triple homicides, you retard.
Of course not, because fetuses aren't people. Glad you see my point.
Fucktard should have been swallowed at conception.
agree fully to this.
conservatives, lets be pragmatic, discreet abortions are incredibly easy, it just means that these will be done in private in shitty situations or youll get alot more dumpster babies. which is a fucking far more difficult end to a life.
women realise that theyre pregnant before anyone else generally as they miss their period. late term abortions isnt what the argument is about.
Is calling me a virgin all you have?
I'm not arguing about my life to some internet philosopher. My point stands. Sex is consent to have a child. It doesn't matter if you, a nameless faggot like the rest of us. Think I'm a virgin. You have nothing valid to say.
M80, look into science once and a while. Grass is in the literal, sense alive. I used an analogy with satire, get over your 3 iq points bub.
I'm going off the definition of "life" not biology inherently
I have a good gist of what you're saying.
NO WOMAN
IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR STUFFING
HER FRONT COCK RECEPTACLE
WHICH AT ITS CORE FUNCTION
PRODUCES LIFE
because?
Because sex is good and why not.
I'm saying not to murder something that meets the criteria of organic, and human. Not just organic. Maybe i misspoke.
Honestly i do think that children below a certain age and maybe some severely challenged people don't necessarily meet the meaningful requirements for personhood. Although i couldn't really comment on the latter because i'm not informed.
It's just bias and emotional attachment in my opinion.
Then everyone gets the snips before puberty. Nobody has to worry about pregnancy ever again.
No, this just really drives home the point that you have no concept of life and consciousness. All you are doing is supporting what I’ve said by making such an ignorant rebuttal
Because all people commit triple homicides
If you can't afford any of that, and birth control is 100% and you can't accept the consequences of your own actions.
Maybe don't take the dick.
Nice assumption there m8, at first no, it won't stop pregnancies. That will take time, and ruined lives of horrible women. But not everything that is right is always easy.
lel
Fetuses aren't even conscious. They are like plants
Ah, you're just edgy I see. Carry on then.
Most, if not all women, are a net drain on society. They take more than they put in.
They're not that valuable. They're actually quite invaluable considering the only skill most of them have is getting men off.
Some of them are really smart and I love those women and I want them to never be denigrated or mistreated but the simple fact remains that most women should be nothing but breeders.
Well based on some idiots in this thread, I must commit genocide every time I jack off. Or a woman commits homicide every time they have a period.
Except with unique human dna
It's not right, it's not acceptable and it WON'T FUCKING HAPPEN. This shit will be thrown out and we will SEE to it.
this entire debate was settled back in the fucking 50s you regressive drooling subhumans. Do you know what back alley abortions and wire coat hangers were?
NEVER AGAIN. I will BEAT PEOPLE over this if I must.
So you're a plant when you go to sleep?
Apples have unique apple DNA. DNA combinations are nothing special or sacred. Making itself into unique combinations is literally what DNA does.
Not user you are replying to, but your reply suggests you might be a plant or have plant-like intelligence.
Wait, is this guy for real? You think plants have consciousness and that they are constantly in a subconscious dream state? Do you think if you yell loud enough at a plant it wakes up and is fully aware of its existence?
ITT: conservatards pretending to care about a fetus when they won't pay to support it and its mother after it's born, so that they can punish females for having sex
if you crush a cocoon or a caterpillar, i wouldnt accuse you of killing a butterfly.
im okay with euthanising a person in a vegetative state, even if its an active process not just turning off life support.
the limited mental activity is the issue.
if you want to abort a baby in the first couple of months fine. thats basically euthanasia.
>vague euphemisms
you'd have to be the dumbest goddamned retarded asshole idiot to think that "reproductive rights" is vague OR a euphemism. It's basic fucking bodily autonomy we're talking about. If your blood will save another person's life, no one can make you donate your blood! Even if you're dead, we can't take your organs unless you give permission before you died! And this is talking about saving a real person, possibly several actual people! Why in the FUCK would you think it's okay for women to have less control over their bodies than a fucking corpse?
Plants are loosely conscious. They reply to stimuli and communicate with one another through their root systems.
taste good too, like sweet potato
subconscious is not the same as non-cognitive. Fetuses and newborns cannot think. They cannot log memories yet. They are UNAWARE.
Even in the deepest sleep you're still more than a little aware and your brain is working. Very hard, in fact, as it's cleansing itself of plaque buildup and waste products from neuroreceptor reactions and ATP use.
So since you have all the answers, what is the exact point in time (measured in weeks, days, minutes and seconds) after the sperm hits the egg is it a non-human before it becomes a human (at which point it’s okay to use he or she when referring to it)? I’m looking for an extremely precise answer because, since you have a “concept of life and consciousness” and I don’t, I would like to be on your level of underatanding with this.
You seem very smart, let’s see how smart you are. Tell me all about the exact instant it becomes a he or she
Don't cut yourself too hard with that edge.
Dude, please? Please start a fight over it. There are never enough lefty bashing compilations. Bring friends.
Very different from a human being asleep and processing thought patterns from the day
thinking people will not fuck is honestly the most retarded thing there is.
also, if you're under 18 you're protected by law from being responsible for a whole shit load of decisions. you're not able to sign contracts, get a loan, etc etc because you're literally not mature enough to do those things. but you think some horny kid should be punished for the rest of their life from having sex? are you fucking kidding me? get the fuck out of here.
if your sibling needs an organ or even fucking blood to save their life, there's literally not one jurisdiction in the country where anyone can legally force you to give it to them. and you want to force a kid (even one who was raped) from carrying a baby to term? are you some special kind of moron?
no, you just hate women because you're either some incel faggot or a member of the american taliban. do us all a favor and open your wrists.
No, because when you sleep you're still conscious. That's why you dream and are aware you are alive. Fetuses are not conscious in any way shape or form.
Besides, you don't actually believe a fetus is a real human life either or you would have a funeral for every miscarriage. But you don't because even though a "fetus died" its not very significant or uncommon.
Its sacred because it is human DNA, if you're comparing a unique human to a unique apple. Then we can't find common ground and I think thats the end of it.
You don't want that.
Furthermore, the legislation has NO CHANCE in the Supreme Court. The GOP faggots know that too, they just did it to rile up support from the drooling subhumans who vote for them.
But seriously, who thought it was a good idea to shill anti-abortion shit on 4chins? Pretty sure the cool kids didn't start posting this bs on their own two weeks ago.
I'm just clarifying for you since you seem to believe that there is absolutely no activity whatsoever; they are living and they are loosely aware of their surroundings and of other plants.
apply all the antiabortion arguments to farming/eating animals.
if you think that animal lives dont matter.
then apply that logic to someone whos killing animals in your neighborhood for fun.
>They reply to stimuli
Being phototropic is not consciousness numbnuts.
Russian troll farms
You want to know when a baby can form memories or when it becomes one sex or the other? Seems like different questions. Both are easy to google but I would be happy to answer for you if you can clarify
Shit topic to generate a quick shitstorm of shitposts. It's lazy work but it gets the job done.
Why do conservatives keep using vague euphemisms like "pro-life" and "sanctity of life" instead of saying what it actually is, such as "controlling women's bodies", or "denying freedom of choice" and "forcing people into poverty"?
>Nice assumption there m8,
It's not an assumption. Banning abortion doesn't appreciably decrease the rate of abortions.
It DOES increase the rates of both maternal and neonatal mortality though.
Kind of counter productive to your aim.
People just keep having sex.
There is absolutely nothing sacred about humans.
We're fucked up, defenseless, hairless apes with a shitload of leftover useless bits, almost no survival instincts to speak of and a prefrontal lobe that didn't shrink enough to let us evolve as a purely rational being.
Thank you fir that comment. Let's debate the plant parenthood program.
>He doesn't know what he's talking
>Feels qualified to speak up anyway
There's more than one species of plant you moron. I wasn't even referencing their photosynthesis nor the phototropic process.
No I’m fully aware of the level of activity plants have, but it’s not the same as “so when I go to sleep I am plant now?”
because they don't want to admit it's about punishing women
I don't think i'm 'being edgy. I think i'm being thoughtful.
Feel free to join me.
You have no idea how much activity plants have. People who spend their entire lives researching plants still aren't entirely sure to the extent of plant awareness.
Fuck off you mouthbreathing LARPer
They are not conscious at all. Plants are not aware they exist like bacteria. They just have action and reaction. Like chemicals do. If you fill action and reaction results in consciousness. Then you also think that like baking soda and vinegar is conscious
No, I’m wondering the exact amount of tine after conception when it becomes a person (and it’s then acceptable to refer to the fetus as a human being).
Incel detected.
Let be break this down for you before you have an aneurism.
>thinking people will not fuck
Yes, I think a woman will have sex with a stranger with a with the safety blanket of an abortion. No I don't think she would make the same decision, and would hold a man (as they should) accountable for his own seed.
>under 18 protected by laws
No shit, there's no frontal lobe developed. You're governed by hormones. Underage pregnancy sucks. Why does killing the baby fix the problem? Sex ed might be a little more useful if there's the general message conveyed that the uterus makes babies. And if semen gets in an egg, you don't get to erase that mistake with a suction tool and a doctor who profits from the murder.(I know my verbage will make you angry move past it, you're above that.)
>organ donation
No they arent going to MAKE me give him my kidney, because I didn't MAKE the situation that made him need the kidney.
But a woman does, when she takes a beef stick with no thought to her responsibilities.
>hate women
No, abortions absolve men of responsibility as well. Which is equally wrong. But this isnt a "men's " issue, clearly.
nah I have sex all the time
chicks get off to the fact that I think most of them are retarded whores
they like being called what they are :)
ahh you fucking virgin dweeb getting sad on the internet about being a virgin. fucking neet incel. sex is sex pregnancy is pregnancy.
thats like saying sky diving is plummeting to your death, if your parachute doesnt open thats your own fault you agreed to death.
just pay for a prostitute if you really have to you spastic mgtow cunt.
*time
I'm not talking at all dipshit. This is called writing. Maybe you should avoid offering opinions until you can identify the mode of communication you are using.
I do want that, I want it bad Macho-Man Andy Samberg I want it so bad.
This is an old view that has since been disproven. We now know that plants communicate with each other and even request and share resources with one another.
We still don't know how deep the rabbithole really goes.
Are you done yet?
Nice, you're not attacking the argument but nitpicking one piece of the argument
You're doing this because you don't actually have an argument.
Been a pleasure.
Show me the study, please.
Nice opinion there m8, that fetus is as innocent as humans will ever get. And you want it to line the pockets of some sort of manipulation hospital.
The cortex, the epicenter of human consciousness, starts to form by six months gestation.
Which is ironically after its too late to have an abortion.
Well, personally I believe organizations such as plant parenthood should be available for all plants of all ages, and should provide education on plant STDs, plant control, and emergency pollination contraception.
Oh cool. That's fine. So you just feel that 'life' is too narrowly defined by the descriptive biological determinants of life: Homeostasis, Organization, Metabolism, Growth, Adaptation, Stimuli responsiveness, Reproduction.
You're entitled to that opinion, and you are unlikely to change your mind. People here who disagree with you however are equally unlikely to change their mind, so maybe back off.
Yea Forums is a largely secular place, and most arguments against abortion invoke some kind of concern for abstract and/or spiritual concepts like 'souls'. So you likely knew that this discussion would be lively. I do wonder why you bother though.
5months old is when they are able to start forming memories so I would say that while they are still in the womb they are not a human, they are part of another human. If a woman had a late miscarriage then it’s not considered neglecting a child
M8, I'm married and had sex before hand. I use to be pro choice. But then I grew up, I know, it's crazy.
So when I sleep I plant?
Are you being paid to shill? Or is this like some religious outreach thing your church is doing?
Serious question.
You already are a vegetable. You just don't know it.
Waifus aren't real user.
So from the moment that the sperm hits the egg, how long (measured in weeks, days, minutes and seconds) does it take to be considered a human being?
(As opposed to not being a human being)
Your online role playing as a married man? Did you never have an imagination?
I like to try and educate myself with opposition. For instance gun control. I enjoy listening to a moderate left person's ideals, and would like to meet common ground.
The center is where the true answer lyes, and the center only happens through civil discussion. Ying and yang and all of that.
But abortion like gun control just brings extremisms and no real discussion. I am slightly disappointed by the time I wasted but, its not the worst.
I is sleep I be plant
So it’s okay to kill a baby off at 8 months and 2 weeks?
The fetus isn't alive. You might as well call the pencil I'm about to break in two "innocent".
>some sort of manipulation hospital
pic related.
That's not true. We actually do know how conscious a plant as we know when it's necessary for humans and animals require to be conscious.
Using your logic, stones could be conscious and mining is mass murder
ok then never jack off.
It takes a lot of religious values and money to say
>organic
>human life
Is a byproduct of sex, and should be treated as such. And women should be held responsible for their actions, as well as hold men responsible.
You two should hang out
The fetus is alive by the definition of life, get over it.
If it won’t cause complications to the host human yes.
Why bring unwanted life into this world?
so there's no frontal lobe development necessary for responsible decision making, and yet children are still expected to make responsible decisions. this is the kind of stupid required to be a republican. thanks for playing.
I keep seeing 'conservatives are rich and tell people what to do.' What then do liberals do?
and isnt it convenient that an unborn fetus has no opinion, never makes demands of your political party, and is morally uncomplicated, unlike the poor, the addicted, or the incarcerated.
isn't it so convenient that an unborn fetus doesn't resent condescending comments, or complain that about your views. It doesn't ask you to question patriarchal condescension, when 60+ year-old men tell 20-year old women that they must end their careers or education to raise a child they didn't want.
Unlike orphans, the fetus is silent. They don't need money, or education, or childcare. And unlike immigrants, they don't have all that racial, cultural, or god forbid, religious baggage you dislike.
Its perfect for letting them feel good about themselves without actually having to do any work at creating assistance for people.
In fact, they're the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike anyone not exactly like you.
Because prisoners, immigrants, the sick, the poor, widows, orphans? All those groups mentioned in the bible... they are far too inconvenient, compared to the nice, simple, silent fetus who can be used as a weapon in their desire for control.
A generally lawful medical procedure designed to terminate a pregnancy, killing a possibly viable living proto-human, because for whatever reason she doesn't want it leeching off her body anymore.
That's not an old view. That is the literal view we take on biology. Plants can communicate. That doesn't make them conscious. It just means they send a signal out and then they react to that signal. You don't have to be conscious to give and receive signals or your router is essentially conscious.
No, we don't. You're woefully uneducated on the subject and it shows.
the-scientist.com
Educate yourself. Research before you run your stupid mouth.
We do NOT know how smart they really are. Just because the leaves don't respond doesn't mean anything.
We're talking about species which have evolved far, far differently from animalia.
Bots on the internet communicate with each other, doesn’t mean they are conscious
Why is a heartbeat of any relevance if there's no brain function?
Yeah, but you pro-life goobers didn't just happen to come to Yea Forums all at once by coincidence. Don't avoid the question.
They do not have a nervous system. They do not have a brain. Consciousness and experience are inexorably linked to having a nervous system and brain.
When the cortex of the brain becomes to form which is around the 22 week period. Essentially around 6 months. Legally you can't have an abortion unless life threatening to the mother etc. After the 5th month.
Let's be honest and call things as they are. Abortion is killing- legal or not and women should have the legal right to kill even up to a child's age of 'reason' - some time even after child is born. We all just have to agree what that criteria should be.
I’m sorry that you view human life as “unwanted”. I wish you felt differently, it’s a pretty nihilistic and fucked up view of humanity but just because you don’t value human life doesn’t mean I need to follow that same hateful path
Hope you can get some help
We came when Shareblue decided to shit up the rest of this site.
A plant almost kill me once . . . I got better tho.
No, abortionists kill fetuses because the woman it's inside asks them to. The woman is the one who is deciding based on living conditions, or financial concerns, or medical concerns, or psychological concerns.
Depending on where the fetus is during gestation, that fetus can't live on its own. At least a plant can live on its own. It's alive, but by law, it's not a person.
Well at least you admit coordinated shilling. That's a start I guess.
I don’t view human life as unwanted and that’s a pretty big leap to get that from what I’m saying. Let me make it clearer and simpler.
If someone wants an abortion, they don’t want their child. That child is unwanted. Why bring unwanted life into this world?
Ahh yes, you're right.
And the abortionists kill babies for that sweet sweet yellow Lambo.
Neither of which matter. They're important to our understanding because we can't fathom of intelligence outside of our sphere.
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It clearly does or they wouldn't have the capacity to request nutrients or send distress signals.
If this was a place for sensible discussion, I would enjoy seeing where that reasoning goes.
I didn't read your whole post, I don't know if you've noticed but I'm walking up hill a bit over here. Figuratively of course, if you're that buttburt I'd try getting over it.
Because that is what the representatives decided.
I would suggest no abortion EXCEPT for rape and incest.
Believe it or not, i browse B and value life.
The fact that the fetus needs its mother somehow validates killing it?
I'm not the user you were speaking with and never said I coordinate with others.
Nice try though, brainlet.
Don’t eat poisonous plants
You can't state conclusively that they aren't. It just comforts you to think that they aren't.
To think that other things are conscious is to mean humanity isn't that special; that YOU aren't that special.
Reality check: we and you aren't.
I already know these topics. You are trying to push your personal ideas about conscious on non conscious things.
For example, an ant is fairly not self aware. To the point that an ant that has a smashed stomach will start to cannibalize itself while dying because it reacts to the signal of protein more then its own life. Which is actually more conscious then a plant.
No, it's the fact that I have the right to not have my body be stripped from me to upkeep another. It's all about bodily autonomy, my dude.
heartbeat is not one of the factors that determine if something's alive.
Bots aren’t conscious
>i browse B
What's B?
No, you're trying to push your ideas about consciousness onto conscious things.
Popular belief was that animals were on full autopilot. We now know that to be true.
They used to say man would never fly in the sky. We know that's not true.
You're an idiot clinging to old data.
And I said we because I assumed the people who share my beliefs starting lurking other boards while Shitblue started shilling outside /pol/.
you should have the right to kill- correct.
You can run electrodes to make a heart beat when it’s no longer attached to a body
A tree farted on me an made me want to suicide.
Again, you can't state that conclusively. It just comforts you to think so.
I would suggest mind your own fucking business.
You do have that right. You don't have the right to kill a baby to obtain it. That right is the same that makes rape illegal. The right to say "no I'm not ready for a baby and this partner and I couldn't provide a suitable life for it".
>beliefs starting
beliefs began*
This whole debate boils down to 2 things.
1. Can humans live civil enough lives to not act on every basic animal impulse that they encounter? If they can't be civilized, maybe they don't deserve civilian rights. (Act like animals and be put in cages)
2.a. Can humans not be so slimy to try to weasel out of every possible responsibility and consequence of their own actions? (A+B=C).
2.b. Can humans stop resenting a functioning brain? If (A+B=C), and you know it, and you still want(A+B), then expect (C) to follow. Otherwise take precautions and stop being subhumans.
now know that to not be true*
correcting myself
Hahahaha rules 1&2 faggot
No shit sherlock, i can't talk to you if you aren't paying attention.
My b bro my b Yea Forums
Man, if only that was an actual arguement and not a sign of failure
I can. If I roll a ball down a hill, it doesn’t have consciousness, it rolls because I pushed it.
You’re reaching
So its a coordinated effort from /pol/. Now we're getting somewhere.
Just like I kill the grass whenever I mow my yard or kill sperm when I jack off, yes.
lol