If a fetus is alive and is a seperate human life as distinct from the mother...

If a fetus is alive and is a seperate human life as distinct from the mother, when did killing him or her (as determined by XX/XY chromesomes) become a “right”?

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Right to privacy.

when the growth of the baby can endanger the parent

The nazis didn’t have right to privacy when they burned jews in death camps?

How often does that happen?

A fetus can't survive without the mother until viability so it's not really a seperate human life.

So fucking what, either it can happen or it can't?

It's not a baby until it's born. Before that it is a part of the mother's body.
Go read some books, boys. Those of you who aren't paid trolls.

You can defend yourself, but you don't have a right to murder. Bad conflation.

You can’t survive without food and water either, so why are you using that argument?

Not that user but theres a reason children dont have rights. I mean they have a right to care be fed and taken care of but a child cant own a gun in some states some states its a hunting rifle. Children cant vote theres a lot they cant do so that arguement doesnt work in your favor either

You’re not defending abortion now as much as you are genocide. The Turks thought that the Armenians weren’t “wanted” so they decided to systematically murder 1.5 million of them between 1915 and 1918

conservative america=freedom,unless your gay or want an abortion

Except the problem here being, other people are sticking their noses in others businesses when it isn't any of theirs to begin with.

I see a fertilized embryo as a human, but not sperm or an egg. We all took biology in school, don’t act like a moron

Do children have the right to life?

I kill whomever I please.

You guys are retarded.

What that guy said was literally part of the definition of life i.e. homeostasis

So by that logic twins must be half people then? So If I abort one twin that's half a murder?

Moral fag. Please die.

No one cares about people on death row, who commit suicide or want to get rid of a parasite.

There’s millions of starving, abused babies in the world. Help them nigger.

The Constitution does not guarantee any 'right' to privacy

Just because I murdered someone in my home doesn't mean the police have any less right to arrest me for what I did in my private area.

I agree with this.

Evict it and if it’s a person, it will find away to live.

Like I said, don’t be a moron.

The DNA is complete when the speem hits the egg. It’s very simple

If a corpse is alive and is a seperate human life as distinct from OP, when did burying / cremating him or her (as determined by XX/XY chromosomes) become a “rite”?

So you’re a self-loathing liberal who wishes death on others because you can’t stand wallowing in your own misery. Got it

Children that can survive on there own without having to rely on the mothers body to survive have the right to live as per the definition of a baby and a person

The constitution also considers niggers 3/5 citizens. Most abortions like 70% are niggers. This is what the founder wanted. Surely you don’t think you know better than Good ole George?

Many animals require a mother's nurture to maintain homeostasis. Being without the mother doesn't make it any less of a living being.

You didn’t answer my question. Do children have the right to life?

Yes.

Man that has nothing to do with the context of what we are talking about and you know it.

But there is also simply my life own philosophy on the subject. A person is a person because of the memories and experiences they have, and that of which other people have with them.

Fetuses are not fully people. Its all a lesser of two evils kinda situation. No one wants to have to choose in a situation like that, but someone has to.

But also, and this is important, it is no ones business other than the mother and father what happens.

What do you mean 'the DNA is complete'? The complete human DNA structure develops as the fetus develops. Do you really not understand Gene expression?

It's not a life distinct from the mother. It is precisely a parasite until it can live on its own without the mother.

I have two kids, and still don’t give a shit if a woman has 20 abortions.

I’m not interested in taking care of poor people’s babies. The nigger population in Alabama is about to explode. We can’t afford all these niggers. Fuck off.

if i put my arm to the elbow inside your ass you will prefer to have a legal way to do remove me or you will do it outside the law knowing that you can be imprisoned for doing it?

Sorry, but no you are incorrect. The capability to do so and the ability to do so (given everonmental variables, such as the presence of the mother) are not the same thing. A fetus is not capable of maintaining homeostasis by itself. A born baby is.

No i did. Its not considered a child until it can draw breath outside the womb and live without being attached to the mother. That child has a right to life but anything before that is not considered a human and has no rights

Ok well I hope you get out of your pit of depression, I really do. I’ve struggled with depression my entire life so I know what it’s like

But don’t hate on others.

“A person is a person, no matter how small”

- - Dr Suess

Yeah, but then who was phone?

The only cure for my depression is more abortions.

Think of me like one of those fetuses you want to save. Don’t deny me my existence.

Except when it's not a person and a Fetus instead.

Abortion should be legal for the sake of population control, fuck the religious right, get rid of those things if you don't want them.

Y'all hate basketball americans right, then support abortion

Unless you can breath on your own outside the womb, you are a parasite. What’s next, save tics?

If I gave you the choice between saving 12 human embryos and one baby which would you choose?

Ticks do serve a purpose as food but fuck those little cunts

1973, I think. Listen, I destroy a bald eagle or whooping crane, it is considered destroying a bird. I kill a pregnant mother, I get charged with a double homicide. Make up your mind libtards.

>fetus is alive and is a seperate human life as distinct from the mother
That’s wrong tho. You’re thinking of a baby. Fetus lives inside

I think you’ve been bamboozled into believing the left-wing narrative on abortion. It makes money, it keeps democrats in line because it’s a polarizing issue by default, and it is the cornerstone foundation of the “free sex” movement that started in the 1960s because to the left, there is no such thing as personal consequences, so they mask it with euphemisms and distractions to AVOID addressing what’s really happening: the doctor cuts the baby out of the womb and throws it into a biohazard bag and throws it away.

Abortion, no matter how you slice it and dice it (no pun intended), is murder.

DUDE what if my DICK was inside a PUSSY?!

It considered them whole citizens with 3/5 legislative value

I guess the bill also includes stipulations about men having to pay child support immediately if they are accused of being the father.

Yep. The whore you fucked once can accuse you of fathering her spawn and you have to pay for her medical and child support immediately.

kill it even if it's a live.

So if you were in a situation where you could save 12 human embryos and one baby you'd choose the embryos over the baby one would presume?

So the ability to traditionally breath air is the requirement for being a human and there are no exceptions?

Or you can be smart and order a DNA test

Approximately age 35.

What about when it is half way out the canal? Is it considered a fetus incapable or a baby capable [of homeostasis]? What about technology being able to maintain an early expelled fetus?

No, go be a hugger elsewhere.

Mind your own fucking business. You want kids, have tons, but plenty of slut shouldn’t be mom’s.

The world is filled with babies that are unwanted.

Those of us who don’t care about abortion, don’t believe life begins at conception.

>As determined by xx/xy chromosomes

Just gotta throw in a totally different debate with that, huh? Your faggotry is showing real clear.

When people became forgot the only reason to women. Seriously, the only point to them is childbearing. It's the one thing that men can't do. If they no longer do this, they become completely pointless.

By technical definition yes thats all it takes to be considered a full baby now a human? Thats a little far fetched and a different issue entirely. But it will never be a baby until it has drawn its first breath outside the womb there is no argument there until you can get the definition changed

*became
Ignore that word.

Roe v. Wade isn't a discussion about how to best cross a river.

There is no left-wing narrative here. I support abortion because I don't want my taxes paying for nigger and spic babies. Because ultimatlly that's what will happen you dense cunt.

I’m not going to mind my own business if there’s a silent holocaust going on. That’s how all of us pro-lifers feel about it and that’s why there’s a fucking revolution happening in states right now

If you can afford the ones that test fetal tissue and if she agrees to it and doesn’t argue fear of miscarriage. Have fun paying 2500k to prove you’re not the father.

>I kill a pregnant mother, I get charged with a double homicide.
That’s actually just a conservative attack on abortion rights.

By this logic shouldn't every human currently on life support have the p[lug pulled?

We're discussing whether the fetus is a life not whether it is a baby

Correct. It is not explicitly called out in the Constitution. It was established by a Supreme Court decision that ruled it was alluded to in the Fourth Amendment that says all persons shall be secure in their homes and persons against unwarranted search and seizure. Your murder example is ignorant, because if there were probably cause for a search it would be warranted.
You argumentative piece of shit.
Read a fucking book.

Nigger the only think that’s going to happen is niggers are not going to be able to afford abortions and have 10x the kids.

White women will fly to a state with legal abortion and get one.

>the liberal then resorts to excuses for “justifying” murder (“it was unwanted”) and personal insults

That is almost literally the opposite of what was said.

It's not a separate human life until a certain point. The first instance of a heartbeat is not that point.

See

It is not a fucking child, it is a fetus. Try reading for comprehension, you goddamn retarded piece of shit.

Hell any good lawyer can protest saying how can you prove it hell court mandated parental test are a thing ive gone through one kid wasnt mine didnt cost me a thing

You're the equivalent of PETA whining about owning a pet being animal abuse, it's only a holocaust to you.

There's no real benefit to having a child that isn't wanted, it just forces economic strain on the "parents" and creates a child that isn't wanted and forcing them into a shitty home.

So what is that point, Dr. user?

So a woman should be forced to birth a kid that was never intended because even when used properly condoms are only 99% effective and oops, this was his 100th orgasm?

Machines aren't organisms. Not yet anyway.

When women got the right to vote away their responsibilities.

When it can breath and survive on its own.

In the early 1970s when the Supreme court decided Roe. V. Wade. It was not recognized as a tight before then

Im aware and im telling you. Unless. You. Get. The. Definition. Changed. The. Answer. Is. No. Here is another way to make it simple

>has the child drawn its first breath outside the womb
>if yes, congratulations it is considered a baby with human rights
>if no, then its not a baby with human rights

Then they end up on Yea Forums spamming trap threads.

Read what? The writings of Margaret Sanger the eugenist?

Will you pro-life fucksticks be stumping up the money to pay for the nigger babies? Tell you what, i'll become pro life if you volunteer for a 15% tax increase to pay for that?

Think of all the lives you'd be saving!

This.

No, but the` woman is, for all intents and purposes, a life support system for the unborn. There is no difference in pulling the plug and aborting a fetus.

(Mind you, I don't have any problem with abortion, I'd just like to remind people that we are talking about killing babies here.)

People have been aborting fetuses and even abandoning children to die of exposure since the existence of the human race.
The purpose of legalizing abortion was to eliminate unsafe abortions. Just like you are going to drink and do drugs, people are going to get abortions when they get pregnant and see that giving birth is not a good idea for whatever reason.
The idea is to accept reality and reduce harm where necessary.

I believe this is a nigger conspiracy by Farrakhan to take over the USA.

If that’s the law now since the 70s, why is it a double homicide if a pregnant woman gets murdered?

Because you are not worth a respectful reasonable argument. You are a troll, pure and simple.

That question was settled 40 years ago. "Dr. user" doesn't need to decide shit.

>Revolution
>New laws in Alabama, the state internationally known to be hilariously culturally ass backwards

That's not a revolution you plum. That's Alabamans being Alabaman.

There is a big difference, the machine doesn't have consciousness. It can't be 'harmed' by having a parasite hooked uo to it. A human woman can.

when it uses somebody elses organs without consent.
Its not killing, its withdrawing support. Its not our fault it causes death

ITT: A perfect example of willfully ignorant fools and trolls. Fuck all of you.

The lesser argued point.
A lot of these laws are to make people safer.
I know I know "well maybe they shouldnt get pregnant". Well. They are. And the horrifying consequences will ensue without access to safe legal abortions.

I don't know. The heartbeat is arbitrary though; it's a point that "feels" like it might mean something because as a culture we talk about feeling things in our heart. I would argue its probably a point where the little brains are complex enough to feel pain and form thoughts.

The problem with pro life is that they just want to take the easy route of banning abortions. You want to get rid of abortion, then spend the money and do the science to show when a fetus becomes a conscious being. Or spend the money and build a baby pod to make a fetus viable outside of the womb. Or spend money to give subsidies to mothers for childcare, living expences, etc.

Pro-life is mindless, and doesn't want to acknowledge the complexities of the issue.

Harm only comes into play in some cases. I'm for just about any case in which a woman wants an abortion. Abortion's most important role is birth control after the fact. Keep the poor and the dark from having babies they can't afford!

No I’m not, I just wanted to have an honest discussion about the atrocity of abortion and you resort to personal insults

What if they try to make a fetus a “life”, since we know it’s not a baby deserving of human rights, and make it illegal to terminate any organism that has the potential to create human life, like sperm?

What if we are all tried for murder for allowing our cum to dry on a dirty sock?

It considered them chattel with 3/5 legislative value. Not human, let alone citizens

So, user. If you had the choice between saving the 'lives' of 12 human embryos and 1 human baby which would it be?

controversial answer. Since when did it be ok to take another persons right of choice?

MY GOD!! WHAT HAVE I DONE !!?

>don’t know

So when we advance into the future and develop nanotechnology that allows molecule-sized robots to float around in the womb to take measurements of the fetus and we start discovering orders of magnitude more than we know now and they come to find out that a fetus is no less human than you and I, what will the abortionists say then?

If I had something foreign growing inside me, I'd pay good money to have that shit ripped out. idgaf if you think it's alive, if supporting the killing of children is what it takes, then I'm gonna support the killing of children

Women should be tied down and forced to have babies like a giant puppy mill. Except for humans.

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>If a fetus is alive and is a seperate human life as distinct from the mother

You can stop right there. It isn't. And don't atart in with that nonsense fakse equivalency that a 1mo fetus is the same as a 9mo in-utero baby. If growth amd development don't matter, then a 1yr old baby would have the same rights as a 40yr old woman.

Y'all niggas gay.

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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

answer this

What the fuck are you talking about? Microscopic measurement robots?

I like the way you;'re managing to go UP the slippery slope. A sperm lone never was and never will be a complete human just like an egg alone can't either. If so, well, every man is guilty of millions of deaths every time he beats it and most healthy women of birthing age commit a murder a month.

If you are ejaculating on socks, that’s murder. Semen is what makes a baby, therefore it is a baby.

A fetus alone will never be a person either, it grows in the mother.

So you'd allow a living feeling baby to die to save 12 embryos that might not even become children.

There's the morality of your pro-lifers guys. Not really a single problem with killing babies.

Read

well also georgia ohio and missouri, but sure

Women don’t destroy their eggs. Men are actually destroying semen by masterbating, semen create babies, so it’s murder. A literal daily holocaust of babies.

Are you retarded? A fetus on it's own can't become a baby either.

Dammit, why you gotta post such sexy fully grown human females?

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What has been truly infuriating me is how women believe that it is their body. It's not their body it's a baby's body. They're not sticking a vacuum their head until their limbs are torn off, they're doing that to another body, not their own.

Well then you would actually have a moral high ground. Until then you're infringing in someone's body.

You want to get rid of abortions, there's much better ways to do it than the current prolife approach of ban ban ban. However, they require you to spend real money and make real complex decisions...which is more difficult than yelling at people and calling them muderers.

I'm prochoice in principle and prolife personally. I have the financial means to deal with an unexpected pregnancy. However, I don't think I have the moral superiority to doom a woman and family who doesn't have that financial luxury.

3 fucking months. that's what time you get to decide... outside of the rare circumstance the pregnancy threatening your life. After that; fuck you. These arguments of semantics have led to nothing but degeneracy.

I hope anti abortion retards understand how retarded they sound.

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So the answer is yes. You'd kill a baby to save something that might not even become a baby?

Jesus fucking christ you pro-lifers are dense.

If left alone they usually do.

What if it’s retarded or a nigger? And you don’t find out until 20 weeks?

Yea like 150-200 years in the future when a doctor injects a shot of (probably clear) liquid into someone that looks no different than water but it’s millions of atom-sized robots that float around inside and monitor the persons body or fix diseases

Goddamn Yea Forums. Never change.

Not in absence of another organism to maintain it it doesn't.

This has got to be the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.
What if robots find out they're what now!? This is a philosophical question. If you want to go with the cold facts a robot would gather it would more likely than not consider consciousness life which comes well after birth, even. If the authority was given to your micro science robots we'd be legalising retroactive abortion next.
You thought of this argument like just now didn't you? Wasn't well though out.

>Women don’t destroy their eggs.
Their body sends one out every month whether they like it or not. It may not be voluntary, but if we're going to argue every sperm is a life then so is every egg.

Joke's on you, I'm not anti abortion. I'm trying to get people to see how fucking retarded their argument is.

I already have the moral high ground because of all the advances in medical technology we’ve made so far. They can 3D image a fetus now for Christs sake

No, but the point is you have to take an action in order to cause that fetus to be absent of another organism. Do you get that? Pro tip: if you're still not following that action is called abortion.

What if we inject nanites in and we find out the Fetuses are bundles of cells with nothing in common with human, what will the lifetards say then?

Left alone they become unviable immediately

What if it's a 30 year old shit-poster suffering from arrested development and thinking typing nigger on Yea Forums amounts to a clever joke?

>If a fetus is alive and is a seperate human life as distinct from the mother
Well there's your problem, you're starting from a false premise! You're never gonna figure anything out doing that!

Protip: SEPARATE things can live SEPARATELY. A fetus dies if it is removed from the host, ergo it is NOT SEPARATE. Therefore, the life and desires of the actual living breathing thinking separate-from-you woman are more important that a parasite.

The argument is mind your fucking business and worry about your life, not what someone is doing in another state or city.

Normal people with stable homes and relationships don’t terminate, it’s the poor, sick and teens who do. They should, it’s better for society and themselves.

Most people in the West don’t believe life begins at conception.

That’s never going to happen. Why do you think the liquid is clear? Did you go off your meds or something?

/thread

That shit was funny though.

You mean 3d ultrasound? You do some mris on a fetus and show pain responses to stimuli, or brain activity patterns showing newborn like thought at a certain stage of development, then we'll talk. Until then you're just bullshitting yourself.

>Normal people with stable homes and relationships don’t terminate
Yeah they do.

I guess this leads to my next question. Since it’s not hard at all to prevent conception in the first place (there are many MANY resources out there to do that), why are liberals so bent on preserving their “right” to abort a baby? Are all of them too retarded to know how to use a condom or are they just sticking to their old mantra of not owning up to personal consequences?

Did you miss bottom text? I'm perfectly fine with abortion.

I'm not a fan of nword, but that was funny.

No you don't, the mother can die or the fetus. So if the mother dies is that an abortion?

I don’t imagine it necessarily being any color but I’m also not envisioning that it can’t be

Why do you give a fuck about someone else’s choice or world views? Does the abortion affect you? Don’t you got a job or hobby? Get one.

>Are all of them too retarded to know how to use a condom

So condoms are 100% effective now?

Actually I probably make a lot more than you. And it does affect me because it still remains the silent holocaust

No one can take you seriously if you keep attributing it to liberals. I'm not a liberal. I just don't think the government has any business in legislating into the womb, unless they can actually prove humanity, consciousness, whatever, of the fetus.

I'm for abortion because niggers are stupid and they won't use protection. And ultimately we we end up paying for it.

If pro-lifers are happy to accept a 15% tax rise to pay to raise overgrown nigger cum i'll happily become pro-life. Come on pro-lifers! Think of the lives you'll be saving!

If you click up the responses you'll see I said they become babies most of the time. Obviously the cases you're giving are outside of that scope. I mean, you obviously don't want me to define what an abortion is, so I won't, but maybe if you read what I said you won't have to waste a post like that.

98% actually. If she takes a Plan B then the margin for error becomes negligible

Like I said, and I’ll say it again, there are resources to prevent conception. Why are liberals hell-bent and on the war path to preserve their “right” to abortion, in particular?

I made 129k last year. I bet my dick is bigger too.

You stated if the fetus remains in it's natural state it will 'become a baby'. I demonstrated that's not the case.

A lot of people use contraception. Contraception fails, dude... 99% success rate means every year 1 in 100 women who use condoms for example will fall pregnant anyhow and that's with perfect use. Add that to the how many 10s or 100s of.millions of women having sex and that's a fuck tonne of unwanted babies when what even you consider reasonable precaution was taken...
There's also more reasons to abort that Just an unwanted child
And finally, it's known the world over that abstinence only education leads tohigh teen pregnancy rates because you get a bunch of horny ass kids with zero knowledge on how to protect themselves crossing lines.

Who's responsible for shitty sex Ed? Conservatives again. Your vote is literally causing more unwanted pregnancies fuck nut.

Again. You did not think. At all. Step out of the argument dumbass.

We believe in body autonomy. We also don’t want more unwanted kids to feed. There’s millions all over the world.

A fetus isn't a real person until it starts paying income tax.

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Plan b is a pretty bad medicine. Look it up

I want people to have the right to abortion because I don't want to pay for nigger spawn. If you're happy to do that fine. Vote for a 15% tax rise on any one who proclaims to be pro-life. Until you do that shut your nigger loving mouth,

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Do do sperm and eggs.

But its natural state is attached to the womb via the umbilical cord. Altering that alters the fetus's natural state.

I’m pro choice because of this. I don’t want to pay for your fucking piece of shit.

A lot of these right wing cunts collect welfare and then have a moral high ground about how they don’t agree with abortion. All while living on welfare. It pisses me off.

If a woman is alive and has rights, then when did enslaving her for the benefit of a clump of cells turn okay?

No, I think I’ll stay in the argument. If I don’t speak up and if others who are pro-life don’t speak up then we will be letting evil thrive in society.

Don’t ever tell me what to do.

Plan B fucks your system up and can even make you infertile. You don't always know the condom failed. It doesn't even have to break, semen and semen containing pre ejaculate emissions can even be squeezed out the rim.

Add that to the fact women can secrete a white stringy substance themselves that could look similar to agitated semen especially when she's ovulating and it's easy to miss.

Are you.suggesting women also take plan B every single time they fuck, too, just to be safe?

You are still just literally throwing shit off the top of your head when you don't know or refuse to think of all the angles..

>If a fetus is alive

It's only "alive" if it is viable outside the mother, this isn't until at least 24 weeks.

If the mother dies the fetus dies attached to the womb via the umbilical cord or not. The Fetus is still in it's 'natural state'. It's not been externally altered whatsoever.

>Don't ever tell me what to do
Oh the irony...

Also the point I was making is you're so dumb you aren't actually helping. You're throwing out dumb ideas and making your entire side of the argument look retarded. It was a polite suggestion to save your side more than it was a "shutup".

This falls outside of the provision of "usually" which I indicated here Do I really have to repeat everything I've stated in every prior post I've made?

Fine, do it. I look forward to hearing you volunteer for your 15% tax increase to take care of the 'life' that you think has the 'right' to exist.

It is not capable of thought at some point. If we pulled the "But it WILL be a human child" card, we could say the same thing about sperm.

So this is spawned from racism (which the democrats never strayed from in the 1800s) and abortion is just a population control for their black plantation. Thanks for acknowledging that. It all makes perfect sense now.

At least you’re honest

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Well your whole arguement is irrelevent then. An egg exposed to sperm will 'usually' become a baby. So by that logic you should consider the sperm and egg seperately to be 'life'.

If I went into an IVF lab and accidentally knocked over a test tube containing an embryo would you consider that an abortion? Would I be prosecuted as a 'murderer'?

So we can just start executing welfare recipients?

Niggers don’t vote. I hate to tell you. They have the lowest turnout rate.

But yeah for me it’s about population control for undesirable groups.

Well I admire your candor. If only all your friends in the left would be this blunt and honest the world would be a much less confusing place

I'm not a democrat, I've been a registered republican since i've been able to vote and frankly yes the objective number state blacks are more likely to have children while claiming welfare.

Now answer the question, will you be voting for a 15% tax rise to pay for the baby niggers? You're so pro-life after all seems like a small price to pay? Y'all seem very reticent to answer this question.

Fine with me

It’s called class. We simply would rather allocate money to healthcare and education for people already born and not potential people that more than likely will not add any to society. More likely will end up on foster care and prison.

>If I went into an IVF lab and accidentally knocked over a test tube containing an embryo would you consider that an abortion? Would I be prosecuted as a 'murderer'?

Actually the honchos of the pro life movement already said test tube babby doesn't count. It only matters when women are aborting babbies because it's a bill about control over women and has little to do with being pro life, despite the name they've given themselves. Also, I'll reiterate in case it's not clear. I am not against abortion. I am only having a discussion about the specifics of what is and is not a life and when it's OK to end it.

>I am only having a discussion about the specifics of what is and is not a life and when it's OK to end it.
My stance being that yeah, it's a life, but it really doesn't matter. In case that also is not clear.

Well that's an intresting special pleading for them innit?

Just because I’m pro-life doesn’t mean I’m pro-welfare. The laws of nature dictate that if you have a kid, you better take care of it.

Before you jump down my throat about “being in prison” or whatever I’m merely telling you what’s expected of people as parents by nature once they assume the position and copulate.

Well you’re a racist and haven’t evolved from the fact that black people have as much dignity as any others. It’s the democratic party and liberals who have been holding them down in cities and with abortion and welfare, not the conservatives

if you dont want kids then how about dont do the single fucking thing on the planet that gets u them

Do you really think the nignogs would be better off with even more niglets to feed given that they already can't afford the ones they have?

You are pro-welfare, because these kids will end up being raised with state money.

Unless you and your lifetard buddies are willing to stump up the cash to pay for the welfare kids you're a welfarist. Stop making me pay for your feelings. Pay for your own.

Guess it's easy to say that when you're never gonna be in a position to do anything that might cause children to occur, right incel?

spics are catholic and dont believe n abortion anyways and niggers want the babies to collects the welfare. checkmate loser. only people who want abortions are beautiful waspy white womyn

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I'm for forcing Niggers and Spics to have abortions in order to halt the impending destruction of the white race. Checkmate back, sweaty!

If you’re going to keep up this narrative I’d be better off having a debate with Adolf Hitler over whether or not Jews should be allowed to exist, and you’re not making any valid arguments to support your “pro-choice” views

Obviously the jews shouldn't be allowed to exist you fucking cuck.

You're not going to start some pro jew bullshit now, are you? I thought that debate was settled when everyone who had ever let jews into their country has tried to drive them back out again.

Actually I’m not pro-welfare at all, I want everyone to be able to support themselves and raise their own loving families for their kids which is a realistic expectation now with the economy that Trunp made. That’s all I want.

But you, on the other hand, side with the liberals who want more illegals from God knows where in the world to come into the US to flush out conservative voices. And you expect all of us to pay for them too, which is the real irony.

now that's what i call spicy

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And you're not willing to stump up a single penny of your money in support of this principle you supposedly believe in. If you were really 'pro-life' you'd be willing to pay extra tax to fund it. But you're not, you want other people to pay to sooth your feelings.

Yea we know, you’re a jew hater and a neo-nazi. We get it. You’re a faggot who hates himself and everyone else

And they keep saying that nazis are “right wing”. Yea right, they’re all lefties

>I want everyone to be able to support themselves and raise their own loving families for their kids

Not everyone wants to raise a family though. And if one of those people is a woman in her 20s or even 30s almost no doctor will give her the operation to shut down the baby factory.

On the contrary, my taxes partially go to Planned Parenthood (population control central for the democrat plantation). I wish that were not the case but that’s the situation now in our corrupt government

>realistic
Everyone being able to support themselves isn't realistic in any scenario. In a capitalist economy there will always be poor people, who are often exploited to the point of needing assistance.

But I'm not a nazi. I can hate jews, nigs, spics, dotheads and all manner of others if I want to without having to join some faggy special club.

It's a parasite until it leaves the womb. It feeds off it's host organism and is sometimes unwanted.

I think both sides can agree, we'd all like to choose, more directly, how our tax money is spent.

If you fuck a woman without protection or contraceptives you’re signing the dotted line for making a family.

If you’re a woman who’s being fucked you better make sure he wraps before he taps and pulls out just in case or you’re signing the dotted line for a family.

If you’re a woman and someone is stalking you to rape, pull your gun out and blast his balls off

Allow me to introduce you to this thing called reality. No matter how much you 'want' people to support themselves, people won't. They'll claim welfare and if they can't claim welfare they'll steal, go to jail and end up costing more money. Even if we start executing people for petty crimes that'll cost money.

By opposing abortion you are being pro-welfare. You might not think you are but your feelings will end up costing me money. I don't owe you shit. If you want abortion to be banned quit being a pussy and volunteer for the higher tax already.

Unless you're not really pro-life and you just like to virtue-signal on Yea Forums? I'll let you decide.

Life is irrelevant. We kill life on a daily basis. Human DNA on its own is irrelevant, we have no problem killing someone that is functioning on a brain-stem alone. We need to base the legality of killing on something that actually matters.

Base it on personhood, not life or dna
>personhood: the ability to experience the world and maintain memories, as a person
>design a scientific test based on brain waves to determine if higher functions are present in the fetus
>if they are, it's a person
>no abortion for you
>if it is not, go see doctor deletus
>he'll annihilate your fetus
>no questions asked, no guilt
>personhood will start around 18-22 weeks in most cases

What about rape/incest?
>there will be no exceptions for rape or incest
>the things that happen to you in your life should not determine the personhood status of anyone else
>including a fetus
>if the fetus experiences the world, as limited as it is able, and has memories
>too late
>see doctor deletus before this happens
>the alternative to this is not a solution
>it is the allowance of murder due to circumstances
>and those circumstances have literally nothing to do with the individual being killed

What about a severely deformed fetus?
>probably has shit-tier or no brain waves
>abort it if that's the case
>if it's not, get the abortion before it is a person
>~20 weeks is enough time to figure this shit out

What if the mom will die?
>default to the more developed person, if that's what she wants

What if the doctor doesn't want to do it?
>forcing a doctor is retarded
>just go to doctor deletus, he's game

What about some adult in a coma, is he a person?
>maybe
>if it's likely they will recover brain function
>and there are memories stored in their brain
>you have to default to keeping them alive
>if they won't recover, they are not a person
>they are a fucking potato
>pull the plug

Every other method of birth control is fallible. How fucking hard is this to understand?

Yeah, and I consider that to be a good investment to not pay taxes to raise unwanted kids. You're free to be pro-life and get rid of planned parenthood as long as you can guarantee me I won't be paying for peoples unwanted kids? Can you make me that guarantee?

So since you unapologetically put a price on every human life, how much is yours worth?

>>personhood: the ability to experience the world and maintain memories, as a person

Babies don't fit this description till about a year old. Congratulations, we now have extremely late stage abortion.

Yes, I do. Human life is cheap mine included. Millions of people die every day. What do you want me to say?

If you value human life, fine. Pay for it. If you're not willing to you don't really value human life do you? In which case quit the virtue signalling.

I’m not in a position to guarantee anything since I’m not a legislator nor do I work for any special interest group. I do have a question for you, why are you so callous towards aborted babies and so bleeding hearted towards illegal immigrant kids?

I don't give a fuck about illegals kids either. So you admit your whole discourse here was you virtue signalling?

I’m not virtue signalling at all, I just believe that all life is sacred and I don’t think that basic fundamental fact is an unrealistic expectation to demand from society

when you were conceived, dear faggot

No, I just believe that all life is sacred and a gift from God

>What about some adult in a coma, is he a person?
>>maybe
>>if it's likely they will recover brain function
>>and there are memories stored in their brain
>>you have to default to keeping them alive
Agreed with most, but this. Why must we default to keeping a vegetable alive when there's a possibility of recovery? I mean, I understand why the average person would feel this way, but it doesn't make much sense with everything else you said. Before we had the technology to keep the comatose alive, the default was to leave them to die, as being in a coma is pretty much a death sentence even with help. Why must we do everything short of self-destruction to keep a human alive?

1985.

You?

If you think all life is sacred I hope you don't ever take antibiotics, swat flies or use harsh disinfectants to clean your toilet bowl.

An idea that you're not even willing to invest a small amount of your money in? Not even 15 cents in a dollar. Sorry but you are virtue signalling. Somone who held a belief that life was sacred would be willing to invest in that belief. You're clearly not.

Kek I love this one

>go ask an adult that was an unwanted chil if they’d rather be dead

I was referring to unborn fetuses dumbass

>all life is sacred
>automatically means can't kill ANYTHING.
Unfortunately life lives off life. In order to survive most living things must kill.

The gender thing in this question makes It clearly bait try Better next time friend

Well I don't, and I have no interest in being made to finance your feelings.

How do you know what I do and what I don’t do?

Well, would you support a 15% tax increase for people who claim to be pro-life or not?

We are all biased towards being alive because we currently are. Before you were alive you didn't care or know anything about life. Once you're dead, it will be the same. Unfortunately we can't ask someone who never existed if they want to exist.

This is really the only good argument for abortion. It really keeps the nigger population in check

A living organism that is unwanted and lives on/inside a host is a parasite

What if all these anti-abortion measures lead up to a baby (who would have been otherwise aborted) growing up to find a cure for all diseases known to humanity, becoming the next Einstein and inventing warp drive so we can travel between galaxies or finding the cure to world hunger?

So youre gonna enslave women to their own bodies for the benefit of another potential person?

Do you understand why rape and organ trafficking are illegal? Something tells me you dont.

To save a life? Yes.

What if we ban abortion and one of the children that would've been aborted turns out to be Stalin 2.0 and enslaves everybody to communism? I'll take my chances.

It’s not really a distinct life until the fetus is viable outside of the womb. Anyone who argues otherwise is just a religious lunatic or a cynical politician.

You’re talking about AOC, but that doesn’t mean that she didn’t have the right to live when she was concieved

Incorrect. A fetus has early stages of consciousness at about 17-18 weeks, memory and direct reaction to stimuli begins to function at about 20-22 weeks, higher brain functions begin at about 22 weeks, and conditional reaction (classical conditioning, etc.) begin at 32 weeks.

If ifs and buts were candies and nuts. What if what if what if? What if the cure for cancer is hidden within a plant that only grows in Peru? What if one of those non- aborted children grows up to be the next Hitler, Mao, or Mussolini?

>really

You’re blurring the distinction. Try again

In that case, fine. Once I have proof that pro-lifers are paying the extra 15% tax i'll start supporting your cause.

Hurry to it user. Think of all the 'babies' dying as you argue with me.

See

Do we really have the right to life for being conceived?

A person is a person, no matter how small

Yeah, she's one of the reason I think abortion should be mandatory for some people. But that's deflection. Point is, I don't give a shit, prove to me that one of the aborted babies will cure world hunger and i'll give your proposal some consideration.

There are people that are comatose for very short periods of time. Let's say you are riding your bike, and fall on your head: you receive a brain injury that causes coma, your body is otherwise functional and fine. At this point, you have no higher brain functions-- no memories are being recalled, no experiences of the world are happening. under the terms I'm proposing, your personhood is in limbo. You wake up in a few days, and I bet you're fucking grateful that we place more value on maintaining the personhood status of someone that can/will likely recover.

Maybe you set a limited term to deal with this situation, I don't know. But I'd generally default to this rule:
>If personhood has been previously established, all cases of questionable personhood status should default in the affirmative.

Then don't say all life when you mean one very specific type of life. Because now I can't help but think that you feel that as soon as they're born they cease to be sacred.

That doesn't answer the question. Rights themselves are handed down by man, therefore, all rights are subjective. So I must reiterate, do people have the right to life for being conceived?

The alt-right needs to become pro choice

>alt-right becomes pro choice
>start saying that we need abortion to keep the white majority
>make memes giving statistics on how many black children are aborted and how quickly the nigger pop would explode without abortion
>left becomes pro life due to sjw npc cuckery

These idiots believed the ok sign meme they’ll believe this one too

Fucking profit

Yeah, well we've already decided the unborn do not count as persons in Roe vs Wade you're fucked there already.

If the baby was aborted we would never know.

Yes.

This would actually work. Funny thing is both sides have no idea what they're doing and just following extremist rhetoric because it's easier than thinking for yourself.

So the mothers body has 4 arms 4 legs 20 fingers and toes? No, therefore it is not a part of the mothers body

So the law is infallible?

Ah, well. Looks like you're a bit fucked then eh? I'll keep my money and you keep right on virtue signalling about the precious unborns.

Come back to me when you've got an actual arguement as to why I should pay for your feelings.

it became a right when the Eugenicist Sanger convinced people she only wanted to wipe out the minorities.

Is this some unwritten right? Because the only rights you actually have are those given to you by some governing body. In reality, in nature and an unforgiving universe, we deserve nothing and we have a right to nothing.

None of these things qualify as ability to experience the world and maintain memories, as a person. The very fact that it is trapped in the womb means a fetus cannot experience the world and "as a person" is highly subjective.

Get

No but you need to come up with a compelling case as to why the law is wrong. And it's gotta be slightly better than 'my feefees said so'.

I’m telling you it would work flawlessly, fucking left shouldn’t know what hit them

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It would work flawlessly, fucking left wouldn’t know what hit them

Actually I believe in less taxes and more personal responsibility for the results of people fucking without birth control, so I owe you jack shit. Alabama, Georgia and Missouri feel the same way I do and the revolution is spreading across the US as we speak

Objection! concludes a next Hitler would be a bad thing.

"As a person"' is meant to distinguish the difference between the experiences of a human person and lesser life forms. Otherwise it's a slippery slope of misinterpretation all the way up to the racial level. No thanks to that.

The specific qualifier should be based entirely on brain function, not subjective review. We can take functioning humans, map their brain activity based on specific stimuli (reaction to stimuli, memory production, any markers of experiences that pertain to higher brain function) and then check against this mapping to determine if a similar enough process exists in the fetus. If these processes exist, personhood is established, don't allow the abortion

Fetuses live using their mothers as a host in the same way a parasite does. Being human doesn't magically make parasitical behavior ok so women should feel free to do to them what we do to all other bodily parasites.

2 southern hillbilly ass states and the 2 worst northern states, out of 50. You guys are really moving and shaking now aren't you.

Surprisingly often. Pregnancy is a terrifying thing. It can cause heart failure, renal failure, immune failure, strokes, aneurysms, pancreatic failure, and a bunch of other horrible shit.

You don't believe in less taxes all, you think you do but you don't.

The reality is people won't use birth control because people are thick as pigshit. So, people will have kids on welfare, if we cut the welfare they'll start committing crime so we'll end up paying for prisons. If we start executing people that'll cost money that'll need to come from taxes

So yes, you believe in taking my money to pay for your feelings.

You are correct in one thing, you don't owe me jack shit. And I don't owe you jack shit. You're free to have you're virtue signalling party wherever you want. When you start trying to make me pay for it is where we have a problem.

It's a literal parasite at that point. If it cant survive on it's own outside the body, then it's not a baby.

But you've already contradicted yourself. Adult dolphins are absolutely more advanced in regards to higher brain functions than fetuses, babies even. Gorillas can learn sign language. Are they people? If neither of these animals experiences a level of consciousness "as a person" then a fetus sure as hell doesn't either. I don't care about your specific argument to the contrary as it is a bad argument.

No, it isn't.

Next.

Louisiana is now getting ready to adopt a new anti-abortion law

I would definitely argue that a Dolphin ranks higher on the 'personhood' scale than a fetus.

Yeah, glad it's not my state. The amount of niggers and retarded rednecks overflowing will be funny. Will be interesting to see how many wealthy pro-lifers choose to stay when they see their tax bill jump up.

Not that theres any wealthy people in Louisiana. Trash state.

Unfortunately for your state, the conservative majority Supreme Court will have to face the ghost of Roe v. Wade soon

:)

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Yeah, it's always funny how the pro-lifers abandon the states they pass pro-life laws in. Must be nice to have principles and have other people pay for them..

Parasites.

Glad you're so happy about being a social parasite :-)

I'd be embarrassed personally but that's just me..

Preservation of life

>Adult dolphins are absolutely more advanced in regards to higher brain functions than fetuses
Dolphins and gorillas may be more advanced than some adults, who knows? They may even cross into some sort of personhood-- we already regard them as higher life forms, not on par with humanity, but they are certainly elevated above our food for the most part.

Their brains and their brain functions are distinctly different from humans, though. So they'd never pass the tests involved in determining human personhood, even if they can surpass some humans in other ways. Honestly, I'd be all for protecting animal lifeforms that can be proven to pass a specific level of consciousness. But this is all just a distraction from the issue of determining human personhood.

The reality of the abortion situation is that development is a process, one continual grey area. So we need an objectively measurable cut-off point. Neither the left or the right does this: the left wants the cut-off point to be birth, which is putting about 7" of travel between a sack of worthless cells and a human person; the right wants conception to be the determining factor, which is putting a few barely developed cells on a giant fucking pedestal (they want to ban Plan B, for instance, which is simply preventing implantation of those cells). Both sides are using arbitrary criteria-- at least my criteria are based on something concrete.

If you have a better idea, not based on subjective moral systems, I'd like to hear it

Don't worry, if you're pro-lifers come passing legislation in my state I have the financial resources to move so I won't personally be paying for your principles.

Feel bad for anyone who isn't independently wealthy though, gonna be fun.

Cant you ho's just keep your legs together?

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They can't, that's the whole fucking point retard.

If the SCOTUS repeals Roe v Wade you’ll have to leave the country to get to your safe space. At least that’s the plan, right?

I'm perfectly happy to do that. Beats the shit out of paying for niggers to breed.

Will be interesting to see how all you pro-lifers will get on when all the rich people have left and you actually have to pay to keep your own pet niggers. Hope you've got plenty of taxable income ;-)

I don't like the idea of some measure for consciousness being the deciding factor. It puts potentially stupid kids at a disadvantage. Viability outside the womb works for me. Go ahead and try to abort late term, but if that babby lives, too fucking bad, raise it. This of course requires a non-destructive method of abortion in cases where the fetus may be viable. Aborting two days before your due date is bullshit, that's a baby. Likewise refusing the right to abort at six weeks is bullshit, that's a parasite.

You’re still equating a human life to a monetary price and that’s the vulnerability of all your arguments.

Scotus can't repeal the falcon punch or a staircase.

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Yes I do, because I don't believe there any anything special or magical about human life.

You don't believe there's anything special about it either or you and you're fellow retarded lifetards would be willing to put in some extra tax money. You just want to virtue signal.

>I don't believe there any anything special or magical about human life
>bases value of a person on human creation

>It puts potentially stupid kids at a disadvantage
Only if they are literally deformed. There is a very tight window for development in a fetus. Anything outside that window points to a serious issue with development.

>Viability outside the womb works for me.
That's a go-to for most moderates, and I like the general idea. But technology will eventually reduce this to an abortion ban-- we will eventually be able to keep a zygote viable through artificial gestation. There's also the issue of available medical technology: viability could be earlier in California than Mississippi, based on their medical facilities. As such, this is not an objective standard.

>Go ahead and try to abort late term, but if that babby lives, too fucking bad, raise it.
1. They could develop absolutely brutal procedures, or have 'accidents" to prevent this from happening
2. Do you really want someone willing to go through LTA to raise kids, ever?

>Aborting two days before your due date is bullshit, that's a baby. Likewise refusing the right to abort at six weeks is bullshit, that's a parasite.
I agree. But viability isn't a great standard.

Wtf are you talking about? I don't base the value of a person on human anything.