So, I have a lot of political issues that I agree with liberals on, but holy shit...

See

If I found a human finger somewhere, would I then say that this is a human? No, it's a human finger. A finger is not a human, though a finger is part of a human. Even though the finger contains all of the same dna that defines that human.
A fetus is not yet a human. It's a human fetus and definitely not yet acknowledged as a person.

>no longer consents
you dont get to revoke consent. if i get a loan and consent to paying the bank back, i cant just revoke my consent. that isnt how the world works

also, as an additional side-note:
Although I'm not entirely sure about the definition, but I'm pretty sure you can't really argue that a fetus maintains homeostasis, at least not on it's own. For a long ass time while the fetus is developing, a lot of the functions to keep it alive are being done by the mothers body.

At the point of a heartbeat, which is when the new bills are based around, it is undeniable, scientifically proven that a fetus is alive.

That means it's also alive at some point before that.

A fetus is not a part of a person. And a finger is not alive.

Kek are you fuckin retarded

A fetus is literally not capable of maintaining homeostasis. If you take it away from the mother it dies. It can not maintain it's own life without the assistance of another living being.

That is not homeostasis by any metric

Respond to this buddy

being in a vegetative state doesnt mean they are no longer human, and in most parts of the first world you cant pull the plug on someone unless they consent to it.

Cool story, sperm cells and eggs have some of those qualities, too. Surely you aren't trying to tell me that sperm isn't a living thing. Are you committing genocide every time you jizz?

Take that fetus out of its mother's body at the point at which it develops a heartbeat, which, by the way, is generally before you would even know that you were pregnant. It dies. It is not a viable human being. The science on the matter actually disagrees with you here.

Yes it can retard.
A one year old will eventually not be able to perform homeostasis.
If your alcoholic father passes out in the snow, he will stop performing homeostasis.
Stop commenting if you are just going to be wrong and insulting.

why though?
And I mean really, by what logic does a heartbeat make something that wasn't alive, suddenly alive?
You could argue that even before a heartbeat, the fetus is still alive. Hell, you could argue that the zygote is also still totally alive, since we do consider bacteria and other similar shit alive.
So again, why do you pick this specific arbitrary event as THE point that life starts?

The existence of the baby is neither a choice of the baby or the mother (except when the mother is actively trying to conceive, in which case an abortion is unlikely anyway).
Sex is a social activity of humans and definitely not for the sole purpose of procreation. The fact that humans are very unlikely to get pregnant after having sex, especially when women can only get pregnant during a limited period of the month is also a clear indication of this. (mind that many species in the world have clear indications of when they're in heat and almost always succeed to procreate the moment they try)

If the mother does not consent to having a baby inside her, she has the right to have it removed, whether it's a conscious choice or not.

Why you are wrong has been explained 4 times in this thread.
I will not explain it again.

the "baby" (FETUS) is not aware of its existence regardless of a heartbeat. if you were comatose after an accident and they unplugged you you wouldn't know, so it wouldn't even matter. it's the same thing.

Wrong. Basic googling will show you a fetus can live outside the womb, probably because it is a viable person in a certain sense.

tbh, that's not what "being able to maintain homeostasis" means.
Yes, if you chain up some dude and don't let him eat or drink, he will die pretty fast, but that doesn't mean that his body isn't able to maintain homeostasis, the dude will just starve/dehydrate, and it will take a pretty long time.
The fetus on the other hand, after being "disconnected" from the mother, will die pretty much instantly, because the body literally hasn't developed enough to do almost any of the functions required for survival.

If the finger was freshly cut off, the cells inside would most definitely still be fully alive, but unable to sustain themselves. Almost exactly like the fetus, which is fully alive, but unable to sustain itself.

You clearly do not understand how homeostasis works kek.

A fetus lacks the ability maintain it's own life on a biological level. Not just because it's unconscious and can't move.

If it were capable of maintaining homeostasis, it wouldn't have to grow in the mother's womb.

That's just a fact. Also, since when can a fetus reproduce?

Incorrect. Specifically brain dead no recovery patients. They are obligated to pull iy because it is the ethically correct thing to do. A simple google search showed me most states and most of europe is this way. Nice try pulling shit out of your ass though, well played.

Nigger are you fucking retarded. Healthcare is not free in america. Stop spewing bullshit. I have a good job and i still pay a fortune for healthcare in America. Im a natural born citizen too.

Attached: can you believe.jpg (1024x994, 83K)

If they want full control of their bodies let them. All women who are interested in getting abortions must perform them on themselves only after a grueling 8 year medical education

>doesnt know comatose people feel pain
its well documented dude, c'mon
>its the same thing
i will agree with you on that. fetuses should have the same rights as someone in a coma i.e. need their consent to pull the plug on them.

OP is a confirmed troglodyte. Don't bother.

If you are below the poverty line healthcare is fucking free. Giving birth is free. Abortions are free. That is the main demographic that is leading the issue.

Based wedge issue to keep people distracted from corruption and corporate overreach poster.

A fetus exhibits homeostasis.
If you take away it's source of food and water, it will die.
That's not "A fetus is literally not capable of maintaining homeostasis"

A finger is not alive because the cells inside it are.

Reproduction includes the ability to reproduce in the future, dumbass.
Stop posting.
>>>/reddit/

Healthcare is free in many parts of america. In my state it is. In most left wing states it is. You can go apply for it right now.
You not knowing that does not make me feel any less intelligent.

Rekt

Coma is different than brain dead. No activity, such as in an early fetus. They cant even feel pain up to 27 weeks.

Show me some fucking proof and locations of where healthcare is entirely free in america. I haven't heard a single fucking bit about this. Don't act as if you have a higher podium to stand on when you wont even provide evidence

Sperm contains human DNA yet you're not advocating for people to abstain from masturbation?

Google pal.

It isn’t really a human being though. Humans think and feel. Humans experience the world. Until the final weeks of pregnancy, fetuses lack the brain development to be truly human. They only potential future humans, and women’s bodily autonomy should never be revoked for their sake.

Lefists aren't liberals

Dust is a million skin cell corpses

Here is your honest debate.

The earth is overpopulated. We are already low on resources. People are a fucking plague. 80% of you are useless leeches to "society" to begin with. You will likely not contribute to the betterment of our species - whatever that might mean regardless...

Answer: hopefully AI helps legalize full blown "trimming of the herd" soon. Stop whining about some dead babies its irrelevant - we need less useless mouths not more. "Abortion" cases are usually lower middle class to poverty anyways. Too bad we cant just abort the mother too.

>its well documented dude, c'mon

and it doesn't fucking matter? other people make the choice for you, your life is not yours in that state

true they are not the same, but specifically mentioned comatose.

Do your rant against the death penalty next, ideologically consistent OP

I think you're conflating the biological definition of life with the ethical definition of life (whether they should be different is another matter).

In the case of an ethical definition, a Fetus does not exhibit any sembalance of sentience, and therefore is not life by a broad ethical definition.

In my mind, I think that every creator has agency over their creations to a point. In the case of an artist, it is when the art is revealed to the public.

For a lab mouse, agency may never stop, as their purpose in creation was to be destroyed.

For a child, it depends on the intent and to time. If a child is to be born to suffer, than it is a mercy to abort. If a child is born accidently, then their purpose is as their creator deems, until such a time as the creation has agency over itself.

If I child is conceived intentionally, then there is an obligation to carry it to term barring the suffering clause.

As a government cannot correctly assess intent, nor often the events surrounding the conception, they cannot rightfully take agency from the creator.

Therefore, pro choice. Not pro abortion, but pro choice.

Wow you are a retard.

Ever hear of something called, gee, i dont know, Medicaid? Free health insurance funded by the govt. Cmon man.

>Show me some fucking proof and locations of where healthcare is entirely free in america.
Why would I do that when that's not what I claimed.
But I will try to find a web page for you.
marylandhealthconnection.gov/
Took me not even 30 seconds.

Most liberals aren't liberal. But I'm using the common usage.

You need to do some more research of the brain development of babies.
But even if you are correct, it doesn't change the fact that abortion is murder.

>OPs agenda
>No masturbating
>No exfoliating
>No abortion

Is it too late to abort OP?

>make abortion illegal
>woman tries it herself or goes to "someone" to help
>ends up injured
>ER, likely not paid for by her or her insurance, cost gets passed on to either everyone else or the government
Congratulations, a woman had an abortion and you paid for her medical care.

Don't get me wrong, I personally don't like abortion. I wish one never happened again. I also don't like the government getting involved in personal shit. Bodily autonomy is an issue. So are rape, incest, severe medical issues, threats to the life of the mother or the fetus, plenty of things. Are you willing to wait on US government red tape while a woman you love is dying and something could have saved her? I'd rather not.

There is no perfect answer, but I tend to err on the side of personal freedom.

I am pro-choice. I agree that it is murder. I'm just not too pussy to admit that I dont believe murder is always wrong.

Agreed he did, because he is unaware of the two terms more than likely. A fetus at early development falls more into the brain dead camp. Though that isnt the argument to be made for abortions. Its none of our fucking business. It is going to happen, whether you ban it or not, so make it safe. Plus, if we are being honest, we dont need an influx of kids being raised in poverty, unless we are going to fix that issue first. An uneducated, unskilled populace leads to this trash heap of a website, and moreover an increase in crime and discontent.

Fuck this is making me laugh.

Why would you even bring up the characteristics of a living being if you weren't even going to research them.

A fetus dies when you take it away from the mother because of internal, biological limitations. Therefore it cannot maintain homeostasis.

It factually cannot regulate its own body temperature. It doesn't even have all of the necessary organs it would need to exist without the mother.

As if the majority even qualify for that. You basically have to be literally dirt fucking poor for it, and even then half the time they wont take you.

Wouldn't it make both sides of the political spectrum happy to just let the baby be born and then shoot it with an AR-15?

I'm going to throw my worthless two cents into this.

I'm a pretty solid conservative republican, but on this issue I'm squarely in the middle. To me the abortion issue is largely a pointless issue. The real issue (the thing that causes the abortion issue) is the decaying state of marriage, family and gender roles.

Think about it. If men and women got married and stayed married and were true to their spouse, how many girls would need to have abortions? If men were men, and acted with their heads instead of their cocks, and if they decided to actually care for the child, how many abortions would happen? If women understood the state of men, and respected that they have the right to DEMAND loyalty from a man through marriage, how many abortions would happen?

Conservatives want abortion criminalized, without breathing so much as a breath about who's going to take care of all these unwanted children.

And liberals pretend abortion is a magic solution to a problem that they largely caused with their disregard of gender roles and the sanctity of marriage.

They are both at fault, and they are both not going to solve anything.

Something you have to enroll and apply for, and basically meet the standards of being literally dirt fucking poor and barely even able to live dont count faggot. Im talking free healthcare for all, which literally doesn't exist.

So woman injures herself for trying to do sonething she knows is dangerous and against the law, but its not her fault, instead it's everyone elses?

Sorry bird brain, that is not how this works.

I'm going to say this once. The choice of abortion has nothing to do with you, so you don't get to make the decision on weather their legal. If you personally don't like abortions, don't get them. It's really simple. You know how republicans like to scream about smaller government? Here's a perfect chance to exercise that idea and get the Fuck out of somebody's body.

>A fetus exhibits homeostasis.
>If you take away it's source of food and water, it will die.
except that a fetus that has developed a heartbeat still lacks a whole bunch of things that are needed to keep it alive, not just it not being able to get food and water.
Yes, very late term fetuses can (to a certain extent) maintain homeostasis. That's why premature babies can still survive.
BUT, at 3 weeks (which is roughly the time the fetus develops a heartbeat) it still lacks the majority of things needed to keep it alive, probably the main thing being lungs.
Lungs develop at roughly 25 weeks, so before that, a fetus taken away from it's mother will die pretty much instantly, because it will have no way to get oxygen.
So no, a 3 week fetus isn't capable of maintaining homeostasis.

It is how it works, despite the illogical part of it whether you like it or not, bird brain.

look fact of the matter is abortion is murder.
planned parenthood is just another business.
women dont really give a fuck about their children
>inb4 incel
its an observed behavior in nature, once a new alpha takes the throne the females of the group will kill their children to earn favor with that new alpha)

I don't give a shit about some faux-Kantian standard that says we shouldn't take life in any circumstances. Especially from a crowd that gets their jollies whenever there's dashcam video of police justifiably killing a nigger. Life is messy. We've decided as a society to make some concessions in light of the fact that female anatomy is defective and antiquated.

Yeah we live in a society based on free-will and personal responsibility. But we're also raising our children in a culture that propagates whores & casual sex. You can't pretend this shit away with abstinence-only and emergency pregnancy clinics.

Here's the question: Do we want to have a new citizen every time a slut thinks that she's found her prince charming? Do you really trust women to make responsible choices with their bodies??

Abortion = Infanticide

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>complaining about the left when the right is trying to re-enact the Third Reich

Fuck off troll. This is war and we must END the alt-right and this false administration.

Oh, and FUCK Alabama. I want to forcibly castrate every last one of those pieces of retarded shit. UNLIMITED abortions and free birth control. Keep the population from exploding, besides fetuses aren't fucking alive to begin with.

I disagree. My mother made okay money supported a family of 4 and my dad had medicaid. I also know a well off lady who has her money hidden around and has medicaid. I think you are speaking out of your ass slightly.

Can you explain to me why you believe marraige and gender roles are necessary for a functioning society? I am genuinely curious.

My take is that the idea is only a facade of what actually occured in those times, as spousal abusive and adultery has been present since the dawn of time.

>innocent babies dead

False. Babies are fully realized, viable and birthed.

They are embryos, which are not alive and fetuses which are alive only after the 7th month of gestation. PERIOD. NO NEGOTIATION.

I wasn't assigning fault, only cost. That seems to be an issue with many Conservatives, the idea that tax dollars shouldn't pay for abortions. Remember, we live in a country where ERs are legally required to treat everybody.

Look, a fetus is literally as fucking worthless as a goddamn sperm cell. That parasitic clump of cells is not even sentient. It can't regret not being born.

abortion = having an unwanted abscess removed.
>ftfy

I've gone through it personally and been denied medicaid when I was dirt fucking poor and near bankruptcy. You basically have to commit fraud to get it or ACTUALLY be so poor you can barely afford basic survival needs.

Assuming I agree with all that, you didn't address the moral issue.
And If you want to justify that murder is moral, then we have nothing to talk about and you will very likely fail to change my mind.

>ad hominem
And still, I am against the death penalty.
I'm glad you've decided to support banning abortion because of our honest discussion.

Being pro murder, even if you do not personally commit murder, is still immoral.

You are talking to someone else.

>personal freedom
Right. The personal freedom of the unborn baby to not be murdered.

>you're only pro-life until birth
Pic related.

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Murder is a legal term for an unlawful killing. If abortion is legal it isn't muder. No malicious intent either. So checkmate, it isn't murder faggot

>specifically brain dead
cool, we werent talking about brain dead patients. we were talking about people in a vegetative state.
they are not the same thing, stop trying to move the goal post

I agree it should be legal to kill 2 year olds. We should be able to choose our own deaths. Like euthanize ourself. Or euthanize our parents.
The way our society confronts morality is holding us back. Death is a part of life. It's not something to be sad about or affraid of. It's a beautiful natural thing that we will all do someday. It should be celebrated and revered.

why are you trying to justify child murder?

>Murder is a legal term
No it is not, dumbass.

murder
n. The killing of another person without justification or excuse

Your graphic is pure bullshit. Conservatrash don't give a FUCK about babies after they're born or any female. They fight every form of societal and social assistance tooth and nail and call necessary allowance for hyper capitalism "handouts" and "freebies" for "deadbeats". They are the most imbecilic, unpleasant subhumans on the planet.

Can you name a society where marriage and gender roles were adhered to that engages in so many abortions?

A clump of cells is not a child

you still haven't answered or why you're making up your own definitions of homeostasis, which by the way, you yourself used as a qualifier for what is alive.

Fuck off Obama Voter deadbeat fucknard

Attached: Obumfuck_Embarassment.jpg (480x430, 30K)

*confronts mortality

Why are you here op?

I think it says a lot that the vast majority of physicians - the people who actually study human bodies and understand what human life truly means more than anyone - support a woman’s right to choose by a vast majority.

Nobody is better qualified than a doctor to determine whether or not a fetus can ethically be killed or not.

As someone who’s studied medicine my entire adult life, the idea that a 14 week old fetus has the same rights as a human is laughable and insulting to humans. True, it’s alive, and it’s species is human. So is the fat cell on my ass. A fetus is a group of cells that contains the scaffolding and machinery to eventually form a fully functioning baby - but until 20-24 weeks, it is not. It depends on the mother’s biological machinery to survive, because It’s not a fully formed human baby.

There is little medical or biological reason to consider a fetus under 20 weeks to be worthy of legal protection. The reasoning is only religious.

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>child
n. an immature, living human, generally pre-adolescent and pre-pubescent.

>murder
the unlawful killing of an organism against its autonomous will.

You are 100% wrong.

Fetuses have never once made it to the point of being a viable organism. It's the lawful, willful termination of tissue from within a woman in accordance with HER wishes with HER bodily autonomy.

In the first trimester it is, when the embryo has about as much consciousness as a bug, which is to say exactly zilch.

Every unfertilized egg or wasted sperm is the murder of a potential child. All men and women who don't bring every potential child to life should be imprisoned for murder. Debate me OP.

In my argument, it's not murder. So your statement may be true (although inaction is different, even in the law, than personally acting), but it does not apply.

The median, average and modal welfare recipient is an uneducated, white trailer trash loser in a red state.

I agree Tax dollars shouldnt pay for it but women should have the right to fet abortions done if they so please

That's why Obama is considered a "top ten" president by historians and your literally braindead, criminal orange tyrannical fuckwit is DEAD LAST.

kys

Moral choice to agree or disagree with regards to "murder". Don't want to make the hard choice because you're too soft? Legalize chemical/physical castration post abortion. Let them make the choice have kids or don't.
It really doesn't matter how you 'feel' its survival as a species.
Pick one.

have you ever had an abortion?

But I dont believe abortions to be morally wrong as you do. Im asking specifically about the benefits of that society, that lacks the romantacism.

A fetus is alive before it's heartbeat. The heart beat is just a marker that the laws have seen fit to use.

I think it's interesting that there are only four - FOUR - doctors in the whole US medical profession who are willing to perform abortions into the third trimester. Seems like MILLIONS of them think its unethical.

Look up "After Tiller" - I ain't doing your homework for you.

First two.

Humans develop very slowly. They are not aware of anything until the 8-9 month range and are not capable of logging memory or cognitive function until 1-2 weeks after birth (the brain is still developing postnatal--we have a shitload of surface area to grow in our gray matter.)

>is pro-choice
>is willing to have an honest conversation about it

Good luck convincing them out of their close-minded bias user

Boy do I have some bad news for you.
youtube.com/watch?v=jgw4X7Dw_3k&list=PLoE4IYBxWCoSHbZVabvDj2WEpLQdxnOL1&index=517&t=0s

>Obama is considered a top ten president by historians

Ha ha ha. And what do they know? First off, he just left office just over two years ago. Seems a bit early to be calling this history. Also, the same shit went down with the Nobel Peace Prize. They gave it to him at the start of his presidency before he even did anything.

I'm still waiting for some real history.

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It's legality is it's justification. You lose bitch

if you right wing knowitalls want to overturn Roe, the YOU should have to raise the children YOU want brought into this work.

THE FUCKING IRONY IS AMAZING.

You piss on the lower classes of society, yet want, no, DEMAND they bring an unwanted child and a financial burden into this world.

Before you get your panties all wadded up.
I know that lower income people are not the ONLY ones who get abortions.
It's just one of the most ass backwards perspectives of the "pro life"

So when DOES it become wrong with a viable fetus and a healthy mother? 20 weeks? 24? 30?

I'm male. But if I was female and became pregnant and knew everything I know now and have experienced everything I have to the point, I'd do it in a heartbeat and I'd make a point of punching any anti-choice retard picketing the clinic on my way in and another on my way out.

so then, going back to the previous post, do you also believe that we should ban plan B pills, because one of the methods in which they prevent pregnancy is by preventing the zygote from attaching to the uterus.
By your definition, that would also be murder, since the zygote is a living human cell that would eventually develop to be a human.

The fact is, even if they make abortions illegal, I guarantee those rich fucks are still getting abortions somehow. They'll fly their ass to Puerto Rico or mexico to get them.

So you are okay with removing a healthy fetus from a healthy mother at seven months?

Wat lol, look it up in Webster's, it's an unlawful killing, if we deem it lawful it's not murder. Just because someone starts yelling something is murder doesn't make it murder.
pointing out things generally conservative (but not just conservative) people do in no way justifies conservatives general fighting against most policies that help the lowest-class. ALSO refer to first part ^^^

don't fuck if you can't afford the possible result

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There are enormous complications once the body has changed that much. It's a danger to the woman at that point and there have been fewer post-third trimester abortions in this country than I have fingers. It's a moot point and a petty scare tactic.

We're united for life. We love to kill little children who come to us looking for asylum. Jesus told us to do that.

I love each of my sperm equally

Trump should have been aborted.

Sorry friend, but you're wrong.

He literally just said 10 weeks... can you read?

Bruh you didn’t pass high school biology because you didn’t learn the definition of homeostasis. An embryo can’t maintain homeostasis without constantly stealing from the host. Until an embryo develops lung maturity at around 22 weeks, it can't survive outside the womb and is thus not its own organism

Alabama is a sanctuary state for morons.

That’s the THIRD Trimester dude!!!

Of COURSE a third trimester abortion is murder. A third trimester abortion is just killing a live, viable human baby. Virtually all doctors agree that’s straight up murder, unless the mother’s life is in danger (which is incredibly rare and virtually never happens).

But the first trimester is not the third. Up until 16-18 weeks or so is much more straightforward and less controversial.

My personal limit is about 20 weeks - the earliest time when the first fetus has ever survived outside mother (though kept alive with several pieces of machinery and almost never live long after).

If you left wing knowitalls want to legalize uncontrolled immigration, you should have to clothe them, and feed them, and house them at your place.

The Bible says a child has to be a month old before it's a person.

As we all should.
youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ

Obama received the NPP because one of the first things he did was re-establish lines of communication that Bush Jr. had cut off with our UN allies and the governments of countries we had military forces in. That was causing a shitload of overseas tension to develop and fear/talk of a third world war starting. The entire WORLD breathed a sigh of relief when Obama did that, hence the PEACE Prize.

I never said any of the things you are implying I said.

And yet, the bills in NY and.other places recognize NO restrictions. Isnt this a case of "common sense" abortion laws?

I had medical in California and I never paid one cent for a doctor's visit or for medicine.

Even if it is murder you dont want unwanted children being raised by people who don't want kids until you get100% adoption rates. You are doing nothing but creating social ills

Can YOU read? He said 20-24 weeks. When it can survive outside of the womb

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Depends on the reason. 7 months is iffy on the fetus being viable/alive, but I'd be far more concerned about the woman's physiological recovery afterwards. A shitload of things change in women's bodies in late pregnancy.

If you watch After Tiller, it.holds these people up as brave vanguards holding the line against anti abortionists. Why?

I guess you're not OP.
My point is that scientifically speaking, even the zygote is "alive", so simply stating that being "alive" qualifies as needing protection is dumb.

Roe v Wade really was carefully worked out. Viability makes an excellent compromise between the religious nuts and the medical interventionists.

The answer is seven months. Period. End of story.

We can all argue each and every day about the ethical implications of abortion, but the question of whether or not it should be punishable by law is by far much easier to answer.

Abortion laws don't stop abortion, they just make it less safe.

It's classist as fuck. Wealthy people can ship their pregnant teenagers to foreign countries to get it safely done.

If you're a small government advocate, it is legally mandated regulation of women's bodies. Why is it OK to regulate individual's choices but not business?

Even if the laws did work, what do we get? More impoverished, neglected, mentally ill, malnourished, unloved potentially orphaned children.

>If the mother does not consent to having a baby inside her, she has the right to have it removed, whether it's a conscious choice or not.

This is fundamentally the issue. If you (the woman) don't want the child/fetus inside you, then you have it removed. At the time of removal the child/fetus (per normal laws) the 'organ' is no longer property of the host.
What must be stated legally, is at what point that 'organ' is viable. If you chose to remove a viable kidney from your body you are not allowed to say, sell it to someone else. You may also not have your appendix removed and keep it in a jar on your nightstand.
If at the point of removal the fetus is viable (science is capable of bringing that child to term) then rights are forcibly seized from the owner and what happens to that organ should be directly stated by law.

This is the issue that no one wants to talk about because when you hear them talk about late term and "post birth" abortion this is purely to get extremely valuable research tissue. It's sold. They just don't want to make it illegal to sell it.
Pass a law that says "it is not legal to sell abortion tissue" and the debate would be over in two weeks.

post verse and chapter

>Healthcare in most parts of the US, especially places with high abortion rates, is free.
And yet Republicans are well known for trying to get rid of this healthcare provision for women or limiting it in state laws. Why are Republicans so enamored with repealing the ACA that affords women this?
>They have countless methods of avoiding pregnancy. They ignore all of them.
>They want to have abortions.
You're being disingenuous.

OP is probably Russian.

Oh wow, I mistyped, bro. Bet you felt so powerful typing that, though. Got 'em

>If you left wing knowitalls

NOT leftwing.
>want to legalize uncontrolled immigration,

NOBODY wants that, stop watching fox "news for 5 seconds
>you should have to clothe them, and feed them, and house them at your place.
There are actually people doing this.
They are church members, maybe people you sit next to on sunday, and bash them the rest of the week on /b

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So you're fine with people who don't want kids killing their newborns if they can't find anyone to adopt?

But the Bible itself says birth plus one month. And God hasn't ended the story yet.

That’s a *single* doctor who does paid speeches on behalf of evangelical Christian groups (not exactly an unbiased source).

If you know the medicine, you can tell how VERY dishonest he’s being - or at least extremely misleading. Using the phrase “13-24 weeks” is a dead giveaway - there’s SO much change during this time that comparing a 24 week fetus to a 13 week is night and day.

The gruesome imagery he uses applies virtually only to the 20-24 week infant, which is pretty much fully formed by that point. At 8-15 weeks though, when most doctors perform abortions? Yeah, it’s not like that.

It’s extremely dishonest to compare a 24 week old near-infant and a 14 week old fetus.

CDC reports that in 2015 there were 648000+ abortions that we know of (CA wont tell). 1.3% of these happened after 21 weeks. That's almost 8400. If only 1% of those were elective (no health issues for mother or fetus) 84 viable babies were straight up butchered that year. That's Sandy Hook, Parkland, and Aurora combined and then doubled. Where is the outcry?

so you're saying your mom should have had an abortion

I root for them all & work to help them achieve their goal. Sadly, many die unswallowed :(

You just blow in from stupid town?

>This is the issue that no one wants to talk about because when you hear them talk about late term and "post birth" abortion this is purely to get extremely valuable research tissue. It's sold. They just don't want to make it illegal to sell it.
That's a really niche issue. Like, is this even real? What percentage of abortions is really for this activity?

God is a figment of the imaginations of goatfucking retards who didn't know where the sun goes at night.

I am.
I did not say that a zygote is a living human being, I did not say I oppose plan B, I did not say that I oppose birth control, and by my definition, that would not be murder (as far as I know, anyway).

>3edgy9me

I wouldn't know or give a shit if that happened because I would never have been alive, much less capable of awareness or thought.

Survival rate of babies born after 28 weeks is north of 80%.

Yeah, he opened up communications, then about faced U.S. relations to side with the Islamist enemies of Israel, and essentially told our long established allies to go fuck themselves. Then he stood on his ass (and demanded that we do the same) while ISIS ripped its way through hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children, Christian and Muslim alike.

Every foreign policy decision Obama made was to stand aside for the spread of Islam. He contributed nothing to peace.

By the time Trump took over, he had to undo that shit immediately.

The real number is about 20-24 weeks, though very few infants born at this time will survive. I believe the world record is 19 weeks, which was a single infant who had extremely serious health problems and died a few months later. I’d need to look it up again though.

But the short answer is 20-24 weeks. If I was performing abortions I would set a hard limit at 19 weeks.

Well your argument is that murder is fine, so long as committing the murder prevents further social ills, correct?

You should have been aborted and someone should abort you now.

What did Obamacare have to do with ISIS

Only with apparatus designed to help them continue to develop. Not natural. Doesn't count (mainly because the woman clearly WANTS it alive at that point and its still part of her bodily autonomy plus she's paying experts for a service).

well then you're not really following your own arguments.
You said that you consider it murder if you kill a "live human" and that a 3 week old fetus should be considered alive, and obviously human.
What I'm saying, is that by that logic, a zygote is also human and alive (if you throw out the homeostasis part, which you seem to ignore for fetuses anyway), so by that definition you should be against plan B pills.

This woman is 7 months pregnant. So two weeks before this, you're cool?

Attached: 7-months.jpg (2448x2961, 1.03M)

57th trimester abortion.

don't breed if you are so stupid that this is your level of debating. Better yet just KYS. Average IQ of the world ticks up.

See
Plus, anything through planned parenthood is sold. Plus, I assure you that literally anything that is aborted ends up in a tissue bank for research that is either sold or used for research that would have to otherwise buy it so it's saving money.

How many human fetus' do you think China gets vs the US? Why do you think they're kicking our asses on stem cell/dna research?

Would this time frame change for you as technology improves? If we had technology that could bring a 2 week old fetus to term outside of the mother, would you set the hard limit at 2 weeks?

WOW you're a fucking RETARD. Go ahead and call Obama what you REALLY want to. We all see what you are.

Kill yourself.

I see a lot of people debating the specifics of homeostasis. I will look into this to see if there is a better way to describe or explain it in a moral provable/disprovable manner.

..I'm confused. I didn't mention Obamacare. I was discussing Obama's "peaceful" and weak actions, which produced no peace, just instability and destruction.

>gun laws dont stop shootings.

But THOSE we should pass?

After 21 weeks just means *there’s a chance of living*, not that they would survive. Make no mistake, the vast majority of those premies would have died horrible deaths in the NICU.

To have a really good shot at survival, you really need to hit the 27-28 week mark, and then they’ll be in intensive care for weeks kept alive by several machines.

And there are people taking care of babies.in churches too. Are you coming around to relevancy any time soon?

If we had the technology to make a living being out of a single sperm, would that be enough to make masturbation illegal?

Your argument is moot. What percentage of abortions occur at or beyond that point? Basically none. Biology-wise, the fetus is still unaware and non-cognitive. I don't care about it at all, plus at that point it is still technically part of her body, and thus HER DECISION.

Well, since you have nothing else to say on the matter then we're done. Unlike you, I won't resort to pointless threats and hyperbole when I can't support my beliefs.

Read your bible. Roman's 13:1 tells you to follow the laws of your nation because god made the leaders aka federal takes precedence over local laws.

THIS!
most of the idiots here won't understand it though.

A single sperm only has half of a human's DNA...so no.

R3ddit is down the hall to the left faggot

Go to bed Ivan.

You cannot compare birthed, live children who are members of society, growing, learning and playing with barely viable (if even) wads of tissue. Fuck your tearjerker analogy bullshit.

Quite possibly. If you use the argument that viability determines the cutoff, masturbation would have to be made illegal if such a machine existed.

this guy gets it

oh god, we're not really bringing God into this are we? On Yea Forums?

P.S. You could end up one day in some kind of argument about finding a finger laying on the ground though if we had the ability to clone. That might be the last remaining viable cells of that 'person' and destruction of that finger could amount to murder.

The bread & butter of conservative's success is exploitation of fear & ignorance.
Why would they want to increase social ills? /s

I feel like abortion is humiliating, disgusting, and emotionally scarring. It says something about humans that almost all of us are okay with "murder" (as op puts it), as long as the organism is below a certain level of intelligence. Even though I feel like "murdering" a fetus is bad, so is "murdering" a cow but we still do both. Why? It's because we allow for murder if we have a good reason for it and the thing being murdered falls below a certain level of intelligence. I feel like anyone who argues against abortion needs to see past the imagery of a fetus being killed just as much as we see past the imagery of slaughter houses that provided food.

If this woman has health issues and will die without an abortion, isnt THAT unnatural and she's surviving because of the apparatus that removes the baby? I'm reasonably pro choice, but the bullshit hypocrisy on the left is untenable.

We’re talking about theoretical technological advances.

Fuck you retard. Literally any poorfag can go to PP or another clinic and get a free implant or condoms shipped to them!! Ik because I went there for free std treatment (claps) and they said they'd ship condoms. Seriously, I'm all for killing all the nigger babies we can but its easy to not get pregnant. Even with my ex I only used pulling out, but the only way you get preggos is if you're retarded! Close the legs if you can't be safe, damn whores

So if I have an *professional* hit man kill you as a service to my convenience, that's cool?

>And there are people taking care of babies.in churches too. Are you coming around to relevancy any time soon?
WTF are you saying?

I never said "taking care of in churches"

reading comprehension not your strong suit, is it?

That's a big "if" in that last statement. Viability at 21 weeks is much less than 50%, so I don't really trust that 84 number.

And the way Alabama is wording the law to fine the mother, the doctor, and basically locking them for the rest of their lives for a fetus that may or may not have lived on its own with a less than 50% chance at 21 weeks? That's insane.

Or just solve two problems at once and use aborted fetuses for food.

I was just saying...that you couldn't even theoretically make a human out of a single sperm. There is not enough information there.

We were done long before that. Your post clearly outlines you as a know-nothing, Islamophobic retard who sucks jizz out of subhumans like Sean Hannity like it's the Ambrosia of the Gods.

Kill yourself.

For the record, Obama commanded troops, killed many ISIS leaders and got Osama bin Laden. Wow, what a bad, evil secret Muslim lover he is! DERPDERPDERPDERP

enjoy your accident baby within 2-3 years

I mean, you can find people IN CHURCHES who are taking care of unwanted babies.im pretty sure the reading problem isn't mine.

I’m extremely suspicious of people who oppose first-trimester abortion.

It just weirds me out that there are some people who seem to have the same affection for a clump of cells as they do for a living, playing baby. That’s pretty fucked up. It actually makes me feel like you don’t have respect for *actual* human life.

We're obviously talking science fiction here, and this is just a thought experiment on the ethical ramifications of such a technology. But for the sake of argument, let's assume the machine includes a genetic database from a variety of donor females, such that there is enough information.

It's spelled ORPHANAGES

Not OP, but no. Wife and I did not use birth control for the first 12 years.
No kids, no "close calls" either.

Put it up for adoption...
Get the abortion in a reasonable amount of time. You don't know you're fucking pregnant before fucking 3 months go by? How fucking ridiculous is that? Shit is free. If you really don't want it that badly you would have done it.
Alternatively, use birth control.

At that point I defer to social contract theory and basic Utilitarianism. She is and has been a functional member of society. She affects economy, has a series of assigned numbers, has relationship ties with other societal "cogs" and has matured. We've paid collective millions for her and should thus prioritize her existence. She has known life, emotion, education, happiness and sadness. She is a life. Like mine. Like yours. WE have intrinsic value but we also have SOCIETAL value. The fetus, whether its considered living or not, has none of those things and is still non-cognitive. It never knew it was alive and it will never know it is dying or dead. It will simply cease to grow/develop.

I have MORE of a problem with it at that point, but my values clearly made the choice for me: the woman is far more important. I can and will live with the repercussions.

Fucking classic thread. Here is the only point that matters. Freedom, you don't have to agree with another's choices. Nobody has the right to decide besides the chick that's preggo. How can people force people to have a child when they will take no responsibility or even care about that kid when it grows up? Laughable, the moral fags, the religious fags and the fags that just love to tell other people how to live.

This is why anti-choice retards can hardly ever be taken seriously.

Leviticus 27:6
twitter.com/BettyBowers/status/1128512833304629248

So if the number is say 20% at 24 weeks (pic related), that number is 16 butchered viable babies, you're cool? That's about a Parkland's worth.
My overall point is, how many viable babies need.to.die.before you get on board?

>people in churches taking care of unwanted babies

LOL, maybe in the 1500s.

More hyperbole.

He bowed to the Saudi King, he changed his name to a Islamic name, he hated ISIS, but he could have ended them quickly, and with the support of other nations, instead it took him 6 years to get started doing anything. Don't you remember him saying again and again and again, "We can't put boots on the ground." Even though all his military advisers said that that's what it was going to take to get the job done? He delayed way too long.

Don't you remember his answer for the Iran Nuclear Agreement? "We have no other option, we need to do this." And then he stood by and did nothing while Iran broke the agreement several times over.

Remember his "red line" with Syria? They crossed it and he immediately turned the issue over to the congress, who were conveniently on vacation for like another week.

Osama Bin Laden? That intelligence and those actions were initiated by President Bush, Obama just took credit for finishing the job.

Obama was weak.

They're not babies you LARPing fuck.

All those BBCs beat her up inside? Sad

>im not conservative
>y u killin babies

LOL

>im pretty sure the reading problem isn't mine.
no, your AWESOME are reading what YOU wrote.
You suck at understanding what I wrote
>There are actually people doing this.
They are church members, maybe people you sit next to on sunday, and bash them the rest of the week on /b

WHERE did I say IN CHURCH?
dumbass

By that logic, ALL babies are drains on resources who return nothing to society and should therefore be disposable. Up to say, 12 or 13 maybe? They offer nothing to society other than the same thing a fetus offers. POTENTIAL.

because you're sterile or she's barren

I think you are mistaken. It takes two people to make a baby. If the man decides to abandon the child and the mom, then yes, the decision is hers.

But if he sticks around and wants the child, then the decision is also his, not just hers. If she wants an abortion and he wants the child, his opinion should overrule hers. If she wants the child and he wants an abortion, then her opinion should overrule his.

But I don't buy this "It's a woman's right to choose" crap. It removes any value to the equation that men might have, and then people wander why men don't stick around for the child.

>intelligence
>President Bush
Pick one

That's what Laura Silsby calles 'em anyway.

>Obama was a NIGGER
>NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER

>replying to obvious b8
how dumb are you?

Please explain the essential difference between his statement and your. I'm genuinely interested. Calling something ridiculous is not a counter argument.

Basically. If you try to get an abortion after 6 months they should just put the woman into a coma until the baby comes to term then kill her cause she's clearly too retarded to take care of herself.

Lost the pic.

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Literally this. Why should the OP even care what the women does? Why does he have step in and to be "moral" for them? It's none of his business at all?

Attached: trump curtsies.jpg (1280x720, 98K)

>his opinion should overrule hers
Lol, you are an idiot. Nuff said outta you.

As dumb as I want to be.

Ha ha ha. I didn't know that. Funny. But a curtsy is not a bow.

>Put it up for adoption...
And give no rights to the woman? Give the child a huge burden to life? Is that the final solution you have to offer?
>Get the abortion in a reasonable amount of time. You don't know you're fucking pregnant before fucking 3 months go by?
Over 90% of women that do get abortions get them before 14 weeks, and about 6% between 14 and 20 weeks. Most late term (>20 weeks) abortions are due to abnormalities of the fetus. Are you making an argument for all of women to not have reproductive rights for the Alternatively, use birth control.
You must be a complete idiot if you think birth control works 100% of the time.

How many of you are there OP? Or do you just have massive speed typing skills

You can make the same argument for sperm and egg cells. We should make masturbation and ovulation illegal. Top kek.

Dr. Anthony Levatino isn't even respected by the medical community. There is a reason his alma mater doesn't even list him in the notable alumni section of their wikipedia page.

How about "at least count the same"?

you're in the right place

bowing is a symbolic gesture. It means nothing more than "I am polite". Fuck off with that "weak" and "apology tour" bullshit.

>could have ended ISIS quickly
Like Trump within 30 days, right? They're a cell group of radicals. There is nothing you can do to end them quickly.

>Iran Nuclear Agreement
Correct. There was no other option at the time. Appearing to acquiesce opens the potential for compromise and further negotiations later. Stop acting like the US president needs to be a macho man with a 12 inch dick he dangles in other leaders' faces. We are a global economy and collective First World conglomerate of many countries.

>turned the issue over to Congress
They are the only ones capable of declaring war and they hold the fucking purse. Or would you prefer another 3 trillion dollars in wasted money on illegal military action like Bush did?

>bin Laden started by Bush
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Jesus Christ are you fucking dumb!!

"~ObAMa WaS WeeEeeEaaAaaAaK!"

And Trump is literally a goddamned retard.

I'm sorry my opinion offends you. I side with the parent who wants the child. I don't necessarily condemn abortion, but I don't agree with the idea that the baby belongs to the mother only. That baby has half the DNA of a father in it.

I voted for Trump but I'm pro choice. If you don't want an abortion then don't get one. And yeah it might be murder but so fucking what? It's not a conscious being that has formed relationships or anything. It can't even talk. People die all the fucking time. People die so that our gas is a couple cents cheaper. People died so that we could use more than our "fair share" of the earth's resources. Get the fuck over it.

no.
Did your uncle jethro teach you sex ed in the barn?

Theres only a few days a month a woman can conceive..
Be extra careful (or no fucking) those days.
And you worn't bring a dumbass into the world like your parents (siblings) did

>dubs checked
Yes, I believe we all are in the right place

>So I googled "characteristics of life". I found a very unpolitical, textbook definition.

This is a philosophical question, and so can't be answered by the lexicographer.

>We should make masturbation and ovulation illegal. Top kek.
they can pry my fingers from my cold dead penis

Oy, this gets into your definitions and metaethics.
For example, if you believe that a fetus is a life and each time a fetus dies its the equivalent of a human dying. By that same logic then every time there is a miscarriage, to remain consistent with your beliefs, you would have to have a funeral.

Are you accounting for abnormalities of the fetus post-20 weeks? Can anyone know that number?

My point is that it's the woman's decision. If she wants a child, she has every right to move forward with a pregnancy. If she doesn't, she doesn't have to. It's about rights.

Correction, she's fertile and you watched niggers fuck her until you had to get an abortion. Hypocrite much?

Nice bait, faggot. Is an acorn a tree? No. So fuck off with your bullshit story about being "short on friends," nobody believes your pathetic cover story, shill. A lump of cells has no consciousness so if the woman decides to have it removed it has no more ethical consequence than cutting your fingernails. If you really cared about the suffering of innocent life you'd be a Vegan. But you aren't. You're a shill and an idiot. KYS.

Hrm...Adoption or death...let me think...

I'm not even dignifying the rest of this post with a response.

ok, but babies aren't brain dead patients who will never be awake again. they'll be sentient in a few months, and by killing it, you are killing the potential for human life.

>dubs checked
I don't disagree that a father doesn't have a choice. But, since a woman has to carry the kid and birth it, it is literally her choice. Sucks, not completely fair but men get to rule a lot of shit. Can't win them all.

>A lump of cells has no consciousness
which is ultimately how you can tell OP is a shitty troll if you stupidly couldn't figure it out before that

waa

>Correct. There was no other option at the time. Appearing to acquiesce opens the potential for compromise and further negotiations later. Stop acting like the US president needs to be a macho man with a 12 inch dick he dangles in other leaders' faces. We are a global economy and collective First World conglomerate of many countries.

That's not what many of his advisers said. On the conservative side analysts predicted how Iran would break the agreement, and it turned out just how they predicted. They also put forward other potential agreements and options, all of which were ignored by Obama.

>They are the only ones capable of declaring war and they hold the fucking purse. Or would you prefer another 3 trillion dollars in wasted money on illegal military action like Bush did?

A president has the authority to order the military to act as long as the action is ratified by the congress afterwards. Obama could have acted, he chose not to. When Syria did this while Trump was in office, Trump acted immediately. Funny that Syria isn't doing that anymore. At least, not to my knowledge.

BUT MUH MALE RIGHTS

>Correction, she's fertile and you watched niggers

Racist much?
>until you had to get an abortion.
Maybe you need to go back to gender studies, child.
>Hypocrite much?
triggered much?

And the founding fathers made it clear that opposing an unjust law or system is a moral duty, so Romans can fuck off.

>potential for human life
Don't start on the bs of potential. It's a stupid fuckin term in this topic and doesn't fit.

We already accounted for abnormalities by eliminating 99% of the 99% of the 648000 abortions. Then applied a 20% survival rate to what's left. It's still 16 babies. 0.0025% of the 2015 abortions is 16 butchered babies that would have lived if removed.

>Hrm...Adoption or death...let me think...
Yeah, think all you want. My argument stands that a woman's body shouldn't be subjected to the opinions of other people, especially the state or federal government.

If you feel so strongly about this, then don't get abortions yourself. Problem solved. If you're a dude, even easier because you can't physically have one to being with.

>Hypocrite much?

Attached: word.jpg (600x518, 51K)

Uh, no. Once they have begun to be brought up, educated and instilled with values in society, they have value. We pay a metric fuckton for them for that reason. They are the next generation of cogs in the system. At the point of them being 2-3 they are worth nearly as much as an adult is to us all.

Like I said before though, my "line in the sand" for termination is at 7 months. That's the point at which it biologically becomes a living organism. Even though it's still not technically cognitive until 1-2 weeks after birth, it's still alive and has great POTENTIAL to become a birthed, living human too. In the event the woman's life is in serious danger, I'd side with the woman all the way up to the day of the birth, however. She holds far more value, we've spent far more on her, she's been a cog for a long time--been educated, been working, been interacting, forming relationships, etc. The fetus/infant has not. And, from a cold logical standpoint, save her life by eliminating the growing fetus and she can just fucking make another one. It's not like women can only give birth once.

>and it turned out just how they predicted
Was that before or after we pulled out of the Iran Deal?

Based

OP, making abortion illegal means there will be more race mixing happening and increase the black population. Is this okay with you?

I've heard that point before and I guess I just disagree with it. Just because the woman has to carry it shouldn't mean that she has ultimate say over it.

Which brings up another issue, maybe someday we'll be able to remove the baby from the woman's uterus and grow it in a container somewhere, will it still be her right to terminate it then I wonder?

>on the conservative side
Conservatives in the time of Obama were nothing but do-nothing, whiny, worthless obstructionists. I wouldn't have listened to a fucking thing they said either.

>woman has to carry it shouldn't mean that she has ultimate say over it.
Ah, yeah she should it's in her body. What don't you understand about that?

Attached: WAT.png (294x304, 179K)

That math just doesn't work out that way. You have to consider each case separately, or else you'd be applying a major rule for a niche situation that ruins it for everyone else.

It's like saying because of, I don't know, name any recent school shooting, then we should ban guns everywhere.

Before. I don't know if you ever watch conservative media, but they outlined again and again how Iran was breaking the agreement while Obama again did nothing.

Remember, just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean that they're lying. I certainly won't say the same about leftist news, I think they put forward their opinions and choose not to report certain choice pieces, but I don't think they flat out lie that often.

That's why Trump pulled out of the deal. It was a bad deal, not because of it's construction (if Iran had chosen to follow it then it would have been a good deal) but because Iran had no intention of holding up their end of it.

It's a separate creature with half the DNA of another person, and can be removed. Explain how that makes it a part of her body? Is a tick sucking her blood also considered a part of her body?

OP You are effectively increasing the dilution of the white race and progressing society towards pic related. Is this what you want?

Attached: race-mixing-couple-5-19.jpg (570x443, 79K)

Every so often no matter what president Iran fucks with the US. That's a fact, Google it if you're not old enough to know that.

A malignant tumor is a natural growth of living cells and tissue in a man's prostate. God intended for it to grow there, and so he must carry it, he has no ultimate say over it.

Does this sound retarded to you?

That's what you sound like to those of us who are intelligent and pro-choice.

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God I'm a yute for replying to such a bum thread but you make a point about parents having to deal with the responsibility right?

In most cases of criminality it's because the defendant had a terrible upbringing that pushed them into crime drugs violence etc. Abortion is necessary because it allows shitty people to not bring more shitty people into the world who will be a drain on society. Conservatives are narrow minded cucks unable of thinking in terms of longevity or permanence. Waste.

Yes of course, they've proven themselves to be very bad at keeping promises.

And we should respond to this behavior by making bad deals that we keep but they break?

No.

>It's a separate creature with half the DNA of another person, and can be removed. Explain how that makes it a part of her body?
Nigga, did you just make the argument for a woman to have even stronger reasons to abort a fetus because it's not part of her? Evict the fetus for missed rent payments.

>Ah, yeah she should it's in her body. What don't you understand about that?
Unless she also produced the sperm, pretty sure it took 2. and if sperm donor is financially responsible, he should have a say.

Dude, you are stretching so far and wide now. Look, you're wrong cause you want to impose your will on others. That goes against freedom. Freedom, I'll say it again, freedom. Don't fuck with freedom, it's a slippery slope that all Americans will lose.

You. I like you.

Murder is a legal term for illegal homicide...you are wrong. An abortion is a legal procedure.

What were some of those "again and again"s?

A malignant tumor is not a baby, and no one is insisting that he carry it because God put it there.

I see your point, but it's not really a good one. A malignant tumor is clearly a detriment to the carrier, and should be removed. Do you feel that a baby is a detriment to the mother?

So abortion is homicide.

I try my best. Yea Forums is unusually slow this night.

Should we go to war over the same shit they always do a few years apart? Come on. I bet you think we should cause you won't go to fight. You will sit behind your keyboard, you keyboard warrior, you.

And you really think it's possiable to make a woman have a baby? Ok..

>if you ever watch conservative media
Nope. It's a waste at time.
I've been victimized by both sides of propaganda, so it's been a careful process of rebuilding my news sources.
>but they outlined again and again how Iran was breaking the agreement
In what way?
Did any of the UN inspectors make that conclusion?
The main person raising the alarm bell seems to be Netanyahu, who's the same cocksucker that insisted Iraq had WMD's.

I Googled to see if you were a faggot. It said yes. So now I know it's true. Faggot

Freedom? For who? Women only? And it's considered a violation of a woman's freedom for a man to want a baby with her?

What about a man's freedom to be a father?

Sorry, I just don't see how telling a man that he has no power, no say in the life of his child up until the point that it is born (then he has to pay for it) is helping to encourage men to step up and be a responsible father. It's like being insulted and disregarded for 9 months and then suddenly being forced to pay money for something that isn't your property and isn't your responsibility.

It's not a good way to foster a family.

>That's why Trump pulled out of the deal.
he pulled out because it had Obama's name on it.
Period.
It's what bad bosses do. They change as much as they can. They shit on everything their predecessors did, good or bad.
All in order to prop themselves up.
I;ll make myself look good by making the old boss look bad.
It's shallow and stupid.
just like trump

Do you know what Rhogam is?

When the embryo forms as an RH+ blood type in an RH- woman, the "not-her" DNA in the embryo is detected by her immune system, which, under natural circumstances, can and does attack and kill it because it considers it a foreign invader. This can cause infection and even sepsis and other problems for her as well.

Even the laws of cellular biology are calling you fucking stupid.

Correct, but it is not murder.

And homicide is illegal.
Ergo....

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I don't believe you user, I don't think you possess the skills neccessary to accomplish that task. Another words, you're retarded.

Try this one on maybe. Notice the date.

gatestoneinstitute.org/9584/iran-breaks-nuclear-deal

They absolutely are. Pregnancy is a HUGE risk to the woman.

The tumor is made of living cells. It is actually MORE alive than a human embryo for that reason. MANY of the retarded pro-life people bring up god and "natural" intent.

You don't have a full grasp or appreciation for what pregnancy is and does to the human body. You should read up on it. It might change a lot for you.

Then find a bitch that won't abort you kid. You lost, deal with it.

>And you really think it's possiable to make a woman have a baby? Ok.
I was addressing the NOT having a baby side of the "it's her choice only" debate

No I don't think we should go to war with them. We also shouldn't make a deal with them that restricts our ability to act in our defense while funding them with 153 billion dollars of money that we were keeping from them. Especially since Iran is a large contributor to terrorist activity.

Just because we don't want war with them isn't an excuse to let them pull that shit on us.

He also salutes foreign powers.

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lawwww, ooks like someones mad b/c not enough trap/cuck/andy threads

>bowing is a symbolic gesture
…that no sovereign ever performs.

Hm. I think you're wrong, but that's ok. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

It's always about money with Iran, nothing new, nothing new, nothing new..

>Especially since Iran is a large contributor to terrorist activity.
We're just gave the Saudis hundreds of billions in weapons. That's a shit argument.

Wow, big no no. What a fuckin idot of a president.

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So in certain circumstances a pregnancy goes bad, which happens.

How is this disproving my point exactly? My point is that the baby does not belong to her specifically because it has the DNA of two people in it. This point just proves that the woman's body doesn't always consider the baby as part of itself.

Which.. seems to prove my point. Thanks.

Hm.. not necessarily. Homicide, strictly speaking is merely the killing of a human being by another human being. The term is merely a legal definition (I think, I'm not a lawyer), but does not imply legality. Murder does.

Ay-yup!

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If you found a fetus of some sort on Mars, the headlines would certainly be blaring the existence of advanced life beyond Earth.
I also find it interesting that a lot of “Meat is Murder” and “Dairy is Rape” folks are also in favor of late-term abortion. Second trimester and the baby can suck it’s own thumb. I find it philosophically and biologically perverse to think the value of a living creature only begins when it exits the birth canal.

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You have no point. You are against freedom. Move to a country that has no abortion, k.

>Homicide, strictly speaking is merely the killing of a human being by another human being.
nope

He's bending over to accept what looks to be a gift. That's an honor being paid to Mr. Trump by the Saudi President. Again, not the same thing as bowing.

If a pregnant woman is murdered and the baby is carved from the womb, do you charge for one homicide or two? Is it dependent on whether or not the mother considered it a baby? Are people who mourn late-term miscarriages or stillbirths just lunatics?

I think you and I are not understanding each other. The majority of pregnancies are safe, otherwise the human race would not exist. Occasionally pregnancies can go wrong and have problems, and I support abortion in such cases.

Is there a problem with that?

But to declare that since pregnancy is a huge risk to the mother, babies are all dangerous and should be removed is some sort of radical extremism that has no grounding in logic.

next time, probably tomorrow, when trump starts ripping Obama think about what I said.
Same thing next time you get a new boss.
Most importantly, do the same next time YOU'RE the new boss.
Been on both sides over 20+ years working.

1. That finding would be monumental because of the IMPLICATIONS that other life has sourced it, you moron.
2. Meat IS killing. But we're partially carnivorous, so...
3. Nice use of non-sequitur attack to try to straw man your opponent.
4. late term abortion is a moot point. it almost NEVER happens.
5. It's societal value begins after birth. It's biological lifedom begins around the start of the 7th month of gestation.

> Are people who mourn late-term miscarriages or stillbirths just lunatics?
No, because they made the choice. Can you understand that, choice?

A salute is not a sign of subservience. I'm not sure where you're going with this. A bow can be interpreted as one.

Oh but there is a consensus: that women have access to abortions.
so uhhhhh whoops?

Actually, yes. In legal terms, Homicide is just defined as the killing of one human being by another. Murder is the same, but has the added malice, pretense, expressed or implied notion of intentional and unlawful killing.

Often, homocide is separated into three kinds: justifiably, as when the killing is performed in the exercise of a right or performance of a duty (think of people on death-row in some states), excusable, as done not as a duty or right, but without culpable or criminal intent (think self-defense in a life or death situation), or illegal homocide (like murder, which is the definition I gave above).

The way I see you, you are against freedom. You consider men inferior and feel that they should have no reproductive rights.

To me, you are the freedom violator.

user means, you never salute a foreign leader. Trump is so fucking embarrassing.

homicide isnt necessarily muder but murder is always homicide. Ernot... poor idiot user