What do you think about the Confederate States of America?

It was about slavery. The southern states seceded because they were afraid that the Union would eventually abolish slavery. Some of them literally said so in their Declarations of Secession.

Leftists are the marxist scum of the earth

I like the United States more, but if the South has legitimate reasons to want to leave, that's fine with me.

I have lived all over the deep South, this is totally true. Nobody wants slavery, not even the guys in the Klan. At worst they want to see all black people shipped to Africa.

Admirable in some ways but hopelessly backward in others, and I'm not referring to slavery alone. From its charisma-based military culture to its self-sufficient plantations to its loose confederate structure, the South essentially recreated a feudal system, and feudalism while respectable isn't sustainable in the face of liberal or post-liberal integrated states. Lincoln's conquest was inevitable and he was relatively light-handed about it, unlike Congress after he was assassinated.

Slavery also stained North America with African blood. Indians are fine, Asians eventually were fine- blacks are not. So sayeth Lincoln and Jefferson, and they were correct.

Attached: 1485830961110.jpg (640x640, 134K)

they lost and have been whining and crying about it every since. buncha snowflakes.

What do you mean it wasnt over slavery? You can read the succession declaration of each state and it comes down to, "we wanna own niggers fuck you!"

For a bunch of losers, they certainly have a lot of fans.

Attached: 1539987426443.png (420x550, 79K)

No actually right after Lincoln was elected he tried to avoid war by declaring that the south could keep their slaves. But the train had already left the station and the rich in the north wanted it to be about slavery, the poor in the north didn’t want anything to do with that shit because they didn’t care what the south did, but the rich elites in the north won the political argument so off to war they went. This also resulted in the riots of New York City which has been called a “civil war battle” by historians because the yankees really REALLY did not want to go to war with the south.

So no, they couldn’t give a fuck less about black people. The civil war was NOT about slavery in the minds of the majority

Attached: Rebel dookie.jpg (500x318, 62K)

my god, the absolute stupidity of people here. are you all trolling, or are you all this fucking retarded?

if you are in fact literate, read south carolina's declaration of causes for secession and learn something for once in your miserable ignorant lives: avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

they have been revising the history since the loss, almost to the day. all through Reconstruction, they claimed it wasn't about slavery, because they needed the North to rebuild their cities.

Fact is, they were trying to leave the Union in the 1830s over abolition.

They're obsessed with black people

boss hog was dumb af

yeah, that's not the root. the root is state's rights and independence. But, had the north allowed slavery to continue, the south would've been the economic powerhouse of the country instead of the north. Like: industrialization, all those factories, etc. What the rust belt is now, was the powerhouse after that.

The north was industrialized and the south remained mostly agrarian. Without the civil war that industrialization would've been in the south as they had more manpower.

Slaves being freed was, in a way, collateral damage of the underlying cause for starting the war. It was a main reason but not the root, if that makes sense.

>It’s like conservatives live in another universe where right is right, and left is wrong

Fixed it for you.

Attached: Alt-right is vanilla ISIS.jpg (960x589, 86K)

Correct, but user's post is correct in that having a nigger serf-slave class enabled the Southern economy and social structure. The war was about slavery in the same sense that anything about the antebellum South was about slavery, and it shows in Confederate diaries- slavery and black inferiority isn't talked about, because it's understood. It was only Union soldiers that agonized over whether slavery should be kept or abolished, or whether or not niggers were people.

I wanna be clear, you think historians have been rewriting history to make it seem so that the civil war was over slavery?

The shortest lived "nation" on the planet

more like vanilla hezbollah, give me a little credit

It’s the endless struggle of urbanite vs. ruralite. The Civil War was fought as a desperate attempt for the southern states to legitimate its power to the industrial north so that it may come to its own decisions on how it should be governed.
Due to the nature of industry, it was doomed to fail, and ever since we’ve seen the rural roots of the US curtailed to produce an even greater GDP, at the cost of its very idealistic foundation.
The Confederate flags we see today represent that sentiment: the world may revolve around the economy of cities, but my home is rural and we still deserve the power to decide our own fate.

Main reason for slavery was States Rights, followed by the economy, finally after the two big reasons it was because niggers deserve to be in chains.

Nice try, but we got some great songs out of it.

They had more man power but it was mainly farmland, they only started looking at industrializing during the war cause they were getting destroyed

Niggers deserve to be far away from civilization, in their natural habitat.
Bringing them to North America was a fucking mistake enabled by the plantation-owning proto-capitalist class too cheap to hire or buy white laborers.

What was the war about in the minds of the decision makers in the southern states? They were the ones who actually signed the secession documents.

> What was the war about in the minds of the decision makers in the southern states?

slavery. and we know this because we can fucking read the documents. anyone who says otherwise is either

a) illiterate or
b) willfully ignorant

theyre frail

Attached: grant.jpg (620x416, 82K)

The maintenance of the plantation system. Niggers were secondary to that, and formal questions of federalism or states' rights a distant third.
Yes, Southerners didn't like niggers. We get it.

Because they are people. Which is why the union wanted to put a stop to slavery and proceded to beat the confederacy. I wasnt all about slavery I'll give it that, but to say it wasnt about it at all is false

I think Abraham Lincoln did a good job.

Could the plantation system have functioned without slave labor?

now, wait one cotton-pickin minute

Why is slavery such a (no pun intended) black-and-white issue here? Are you saying that they wanted slavery for the simple sake of having it? Can you not see that there are very economic motives for having it for the agrarian south that they would want to tell the north to fuck off?

They didn’t want the north to fuck with their economy for fear of stripping them of their power to be potentially independent of the north. They wanted to reserve that right.

They lost the war, just in case you missed the memo. Get over it, buttercup.

>Because they are people
Heavily debatable.
>Which is why the union wanted to put a stop to slavery
Uh, no, the Union as such had no such goal. The goal was purely and simply to preserve the union- the clue is in the name. There were abolitionist Unionists, but not every Unionist was an abolitionist.
Possibly. Paying poor whites wages would have been one option, and the system was temporarily maintained through sharecropping. But the Southern leadership didn't want to go through the economic shock of that, much less the shock of a transition to an industrial system.
Because the story of history to these people isn't one of economics or even inter-ethnic conflict, it's an eternal Spartacist rebellion.

The south wanted to govern themselves and didn’t want to be told what to do and what not to do from the north. Almost all the people in the south did not own slaves (98.6%) and they had no interest in owning any because they could do the work themselves. The civil war started because they decided that they were better off as a seperate country, keeping in mind that being a part of a state back then meant more than it does now. It means mounting a defense for your home state

Then what exactly was threatening the plantation system?

What was the north telling them to do that they didn't like?

>the confederacy had wood doors

True, but you don't think they would've eventually moved towards that? Just like the cotton gin sot of revived slavery, other inventions could've given more reasons to continue it. Other industries could've been profitable. Why not have slaves working iron and steel in a factory? Would've been much less expensive.

Exactly what I said. The economic stress that a transition from slavery to wage labor (which is what would have happened if Lincoln's plan to ship the blacks back to Africa) would put on it. The story isn't "the South hated niggers and wanted to pick on them, but the North saved them like good progs," it's "the South had a backward socioeconomic system that depended on niggers to do menial work, and might not survive a transition to white labor, but the North forced them to do it anyway because they were dumb and tried to secede."

>heavy debatable.
No its not i dont like niggers either but to say that they arent people is just wrong you may not like it but its true. You are also correct it wasnt the number one goal of the union it was to put the united states of America back together, and ensuring ALL of its citizens have inalienable rights

Dixieland will rise again

Early-industrial wage labor is much, much less expensive than slave labor.

So the Civil War was about slavery. It doesn't matter which version of the narrative you subscribe to, since they both lead to the same conclusion: the southern states seceded because they believed the institution of slavery was being threatened.

>eternal Spartacist rebellion
topkek
Perhaps you haven’t noticed that most people who support the Confederate flag are also conservatives who support the US being run by the Constitution. Any rebellion you see nowadays isn’t against the US; it’s against the liberals trying to take over the show.

I tend not to.

They didn’t like Lincoln because he was anti-slavery. Lincoln floundered right before the war and said that they can keep their slaves, but by that time it was too late because the north had already started a war campaign against the south and the drums of war were beating

Because working in an iron and steel factory requires resources, the north had majority. And training there is a reason the moat complicated peice of equipment slaves could use was the cotton gin it was nothing but a crank youre talking about a group of people who were kept stupid so they would be dependent on the owners

The war was unfortunate, but inevitable, in a sense. The dependence on cotton had become such that it was not politically viable to have any new states free of slavery (the "free-soilers"). For every free state, a slave state would have to be added to maintain the balance of power.

Slavery isn't the prime issue, though. You focus on slavery because it's a Bad Thing and allows you to fit it into a Whig-history narrative, but the story of the Civil War fits much, much more neatly into a Marxist/historical-dialectic narrative. There was a feudal America and an industrial-capitalist America, and industrial-capitalist America won. Simple, and understandable without imputing 21st-century prog motives to 19th-century generals.

Yes, but in their minds they're the rebels.

Attached: 1444369664929.jpg (221x221, 23K)

Much like Hitler, the world would be a better place had they won.

Just be careful how you define people. It’s harder to fight an enemy when you draw similarities between yourselves.

Is this serious?

White people died so niggers could be free. That's pretty fucking stupid.

It is the prime issue. What incentive would the southern states have to secede if they didn't believe slavery was under threat?

Lincoln wanted to deport Africans to Africa or the Caribbean. Shame on Booth for preventing him from doing so.
If the South had won, the world would largely not have changed. There would likely have been a Haitian-style slave rebellion, and the Caribbean socioeconomic region would cover the entire Gulf of Mexico. If the Axis had won the world would have been radically different and arguably better.

Attached: der_fuehrer_plays_vidya.jpg (835x773, 246K)

No, he's tossing out what he thinks are leftist buzzwords because he thinks it'll confuse t3h liBuRaLS into agreeing with him.

>There would likely have been a Haitian-style slave rebellion
Right, then all the niggers would be killed. And the world would be a better place.

Had they won the whole Hitler thing might never have happened as a divided America may not have entered the ass end of ww1 nor given as much assistance, leading to a different outcome in the war possibly lacking the treaty of Versailles which lead to many of the hardships that inspired Hitler to get involved in politics.

Put the hood down, theyre are terrible people of every color yeah blacks make a majority i wont lie but some arent bad. Where i live its pretty 50 50 with bad blacks and whites maybe im lucky or spoiled

If the South had won, then WWI and WWII would probably have played out very differently.

Why the fuck are we entertaining these shits then? Have the shitlibs infiltrated this far or it just all a game? oldfag here.

What I’m saying is that I think we have two different ideas of what today’s supporters are rebelling against. It seems like you think it’s as it was then: against the industrialized US. I think it’s against the anti-ruralite liberals trying to strong-arm the government away from the conservatives. One is very anti-patriotic and the other is very patriotic.

Traitors

You fundamentally misunderstand my point.
Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it a trick.

What was the economic engine of the South again...

Idiot kids with their idiot Asperger's

No, I understand it just fine. It's just not very convincing.

Things have changed around here.

Attached: 6250166931.jpg (1014x1670, 116K)

>being this inbred

I'm a Nazi, not a shitlib. I am kind of trying to out-left the liberals, but I also think it's an accurate characterization of the Civil War even if they won't agree with me. The North didn't give two fucks about niggers until they realized they could destabilize the economy of the South by freeing them.
That's fine. I understand the narrative that you view history with, I simply fundamentally disagree with it.

Attached: 1465028413928.gif (245x230, 871K)

Its a proven failure. All that land was doled out as the original welfare project and it stuck that way. Nobody wanted it. Too hot, too many bugs. Thats why it was given to white trash, because it was worthless.

Indeed he did lincoln was wildly racist he hated blacks as much as any klansman does past present or future. Now that was his plan would he have done it? We will never know

i thought Yea Forums was full of smart racists not delusional racists

Lol listen to you all. You still lost. Get over it. Go sob in your sister’s tits. Cry me an ocean, faggots, I do love me a good swim.

Greatest country in the history of the world. Didnt allow nignogs to run wild. Mexicans shit those wetbacks ran. White mans paradise. Those must of been great times.

Attached: EDA225877603441483EB4C2F4449EE3E.jpg (597x699, 84K)

In that case they would have made an alliance to fight the Germans

Uh oh. Controversial politics. Better start crying and calling people names because I don’t like what they’re saying.

In fact, the CSA would have been more afraid of the USA joining the Axis due to the heavy German immigrant populations in the north Midwest.

It’s hilarious, because what’s the point? You still lost. Hahahahaha
It really doesn’t matter what anyone says at this point.

>Possibly. Paying poor whites wages would have been one option, and the system was temporarily maintained through sharecropping. But the Southern leadership didn't want to go through the economic shock of that, much less the shock of a transition to an industrial system.
Totally false. In the hierarchy of civilization during that era, the blacks were below the poor whites. Poor whites would never have taken those "nigger jobs", even if it meant starving. There are thousands of written records saying the southern and Appalachian hillbillies were worthless, comparable to lazy dogs. They would abandon their land and venture further west before taking plantation jobs. They were scrawny, uneducated and malnourished. Thats why the railroads were all built by first-gen immigrants and not local people. Nobody gave a single fuck about southern white low-class people until they decided to use them for war.

That’s the thing about ideas. Even if they lose once, if things change, there’s a chance they become good ideas.
So yea. As long as that’s the case, there’s a reason for people to keep talking about it.

Thanos dies at the end.

Why is this being debated like it is happening now? Slavery grew america as much as any other influx of immigrants has. All immigration is good for the USA. more people = more goods sold = more goods and more diverse goods produced = more business owners = more taxes for the govm't = better military and stronger economy. The USA is the best country in the world because anyone can come here and be "an american" you just have to be willing to uphold the values this country was founded on. Mainly the constitution, the amendments, and the bill of rights. Even if you live off the government with food stamps and HUD, that money goes into the pockets of business owners who keep the economy going. We are all winners because we belong to this great country. Slavery does not matter anymore. Blacks and whites and everyone who lives here has benefited from slavery and other forms of oppression in the US. We are all better because of our past. Fucking get over it.

I'm a fan.

Attached: 5582625.jpg (201x391, 31K)

>be willing to uphold the values this country was founded on
Not since the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. I’m in your camp but that sentiment has been tumbling downhill for decades. There’s a reason free speech is a controversial issue.

Illegal immigration will start the next civil war.

Had the CSA been allowed to secede peacefully then it would likely have thrived in the international trade environment of the era which trended toward free trade and prized commodities such as cotton, sugar, tobacco, and coffee.

Imagine the peaceful secession of the CSA pursuant to a treaty with the USA modeled on the Compromise of 1850.
>Free trade between the sister republics
>Free use of the Mississippi river
>Fugitive slave law enforced
>Land swaps to settle the boundary between the two nations (pic related)
And from there the CSA and USA proceed to expand into Canada, the Caribbean, Latin America, and the Pacific.

Attached: PostSecessionMap.png (1291x822, 146K)

>implying the north gave two shits about southerners
They would never have allowed a shared power dynamic. The north wanted to maintain control for the betterment of their urban sectors. Losing the south would have been unacceptable to them and, if Ft. Sumter hadn’t happened, they would have still declared war.

The only reason the south didn't secede is because Lincoln was President. It was the general consensus in the Federal government in 1860-61 that secession, however regrettable, was legal and the south should be allowed to leave the union. It was Lincoln who swatted all of that down and declared southern secession politically intolerable.

Imagine an alternate history where NY Governor William Seward wins the 1860 GOP nomination in Chicago (as had been predicted) and with the election of an avowed abolitionist (which Lincoln was not) the south chooses to secede and the federal government chooses not to protest.

Not protesting a political move and allowing another power free reign on your continent are two different things. The US, up until WWII, believed wholeheartedly in isolationism and neutrality because getting entangled with foreign affairs leads to disastrous consequences for the country’s people.
They had differing goals, differing people, and differing philosophies on the same soil. Peace was never be an option.

and the world would be a better place

Anne Frank would be pregnant if we had won.

Attached: 1511313362168.png (889x1216, 712K)

It does not make sense. You are retarded.

If blacks were all slaves again it would solve every single major issue facing this country.

You can't debate this. Every single fucking problem.

Should have let them secede, then we wouldn't have to deal with all the retards south of the Mason-Dumbass line.

To be honest, they themselves are not the issue. The Left and Hispanics are the issue. The Left is a well-oiled machine of subversion, but we’re working on that. What more worrying is how Hispanics went from being almost nothing to 20% or the population in 55 years.

It was an important step for our country. It showed conservatives that they can kick and scream all they want, but progress WILL happen.
>It was a war about states right to choose!
Yeah, and the progressive states chose to kick your pathetic asses.

Attached: 1553484150511.jpg (915x929, 179K)

They lost the war. I get the whole southern pride thing, but the same people talking about how the statues and shit are historical are the same fuckers that are also preaching about how losers shouldnt get participation trophies so what it gone be hypocrites?

Yall about to lose your shit when I blow your mind and tell you lincoln was the first republican president

Crybaby losers and the original participation trophies.

You both fucking scapegoating. The fact is that problems are complex and difficult to solve and all have multiple factors contributing to their negative outcomes. Stupid people tend to misunderstand the complexities of the world and find simple yet untrue causes for their frustrations that their tiny intellects can actually have to capacity to understand.

Republican Lincoln: Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy [sic].