Ok, I'm not an expert or anything but I'm super interested in what created the big bang. I don't believe in the universe expanding and destroying itself permanently.
I personally believe that the universe won't expand forever and will eventually fall back on itself becoming one super massive black hole that eventually will shrink due to hawking radiation and explode resulting in a new big bang.
If I'm wrong educate me on the subject. I want a discussion on this.
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Nothing caused it.
Think of it this way, causality is a rule of the universe. Before the universe there's no reason to assume this rule existed. Perhaps there are different rules outside the universe. Either way, best guess is it just came to be or has always been.
>I believe
It has already been proven. Over a long enough timeline EVERYTHING repeats. Focus, explode, focus, explode.
That isn't the general consensus in the scientific community. You are forgetting about dark energy and how it accelerates the expansion of the universe. We just don't know if dark energy will at any point stop the expansion or change its own nature.
Yes, but maybe this can be further elaborated on. The universe potentially can run through a cycle that we can understand that's the point of the thread.
Say it does. Say Nietzsche was right about the Eternal Return of the Same. Say it expands then contracts to a point, then does it all over again exactly the same as it has forever.
Literally nothing changes aside from free will being a joke.
Yes it is cunt. The acceleration of expansion is shown to be decreasing at a mathmatically predictable rate. Im not "forgetting" dark energy, you're being juvenile and or euphoric. Dark energy... jesus star wars neckbeard christ
Alright. Where are your sources for this? I've been researching this on multiple articles and there is nobody saying that the expansion is slowing down. The predicted fate of the universe is heat death which supports the idea of an accelerating expansion. Why so angry friend?
Ok.
The universe keeps expanding at a higher rate than the speed of light, and, even if it's a strong believe, it needs more than believe to suddenly stop and reverse that.
But if you follow the math you'll come the conclusion that in the beginning there was singularity. So, looking for new born universes, it would make sense to start there.
Some physicists believe that black holes, with singularity at their center, are the cradle of new universes, and that we are living in a black hole right now, that from our inside perspective, looks like a black hole.
We can't know for sure. Here's another theory that I guess you'll like: The universe continues to expand, until there is no more matter in it, after all black holes collapsed, and all gravitational waves get still, and there's nothing anymore to measure distance, or time, nothing where you could apply any form of scale on.. kind of like you'd expect a singularity to behave. Therefore the universe keeps expanding until it is a singularity again. Not the most intuitive theory but the math kinda holds up, still just one theory out of many.
look up the red shift theory and how it was disproven
the big bang theory is predicated upon a disproven theory
It’s all bollocks and nobody has a fucking clue. It’s best to accept Jesus into your life to bring you some sort of comfort
Alright this is a fucking great post. I am curious about one thing though. Isn't a singularity a super condensed point of matter? If our universe is the result of a singularity expanding does that mean the singularity expanded inside of the black hole? Also that would mean black holes exist within black holes and that would imply almost infinite matter and energy. Fun theory imo.
>red shift theory and how it was disproven
you'll need to elaborate here. I mean it's a pretty simple and straight forward theory. Everyone who understands that light behaves like a wave, and has experience with other waves such as sound, can immediately see why it's ture. Really not sure how you'd even go about disproving this, but I'm sure retards find a way. like did you ever hear a car move by you?
lol
I honestly believe that big bang is a wrong theory.
I know about the red shift and stuff but I believe there is different explanation.
In my opinion the universe existed for ever but it's not static, there are periods of expansion and periods of retraction, like a pulse, but it always exists.
This could explain the red shift because we are in a period of expansion.
I believe the big bang theory exists because 20th century had many Jews physicists and mathematicians and they created big bang theory out of their biases.
Big bang is Judaism leaking into physics.
>I DONT BELIEVE IN THE UNIVERSE EXPANDING AND DESTROYING ITSELF
>I BELIEVE IN THE UNIVERSE EXPANDING AND DESTROYING ITSELF
Can't decide if troll, or seriously fucking stupid.
>the big bang theory is predicated upon a disproven theory
What the fuck are you talking about. The BBT is what its name says - a theory. What theory has been disproven that has any relevance here.
Ok this is probably bait but I appreciate the bump.
In the second example the universe is recreated. In the first it is destroyed permanently. If you know so much then add to the conversation.
the big bang theory was brought forth as a result of the red shift theory because it relies on distance of quasars in relation to the earth, plus their hue, to determine the speed they're moving at
basically, since red shift is bogus, the formula they used to say the universe is however old is equally bogus
>best to accept Jesus
I don't worship dead jewish carpenters.
Not the one who posted, but the slowing down theory was in use for many years. Now scientists believe that the universe is accelerating instead of slowing down. Should be some Youtube videos on this.
Ok you had me in the first part but then lost me. Explain how red shift is bogus. Also wtf is with the picture.
This is a really cool video on the topic.
youtube.com
Believing in a make believe religion and thinking everyone else is wrong.
red shift is bogus because the color of quasars has no relation to the speed they move away from the earth, or at least they're not correlated enough for the information derived to be of any worth
they used the knowledge that hue does determine speed in order to figure out how long ago everything was all in one place, but the numbers aren't right, so big bang has been disproven
just more jewish bullshit to make us think the soul isn't real
why do you think red shift is bogus? Objects moving away from you at fast speeds appear red, objects movin towards you at fast speed appear blue. Like an ambulance moving towards you gives you, from your perspective, a higher pitched sound of their Sirene, than when it's moving away from you. I don't know, it's a pretty simple observation based on.. tons of evidence of observation, simple basic math, what physics knows of waves.
If someone has disproven this I'd really like to see how, that's all.
Since you believe in something for no reason already you should probably consider religion.
Fucking idiot.
The first evidence in support of it is not the only evidence.
We live in a black hole going thru a stage of expansion biiiooooootch. Also, prove me wrong
I am making an effort to understand you but you are losing me a little bit especially with the subliminal nazi vibe you're giving me. What is your evidence that light doesn't in fact travel in wave lengths that stretch out depending on the speed of an object moving in relevance to you. This theory has in roots in someone observing the sound of an ambulance traveling away from them and how the siren changes its pitch as it gets farther away.
A black hole doesn't explode when dies, it simply evaporates. Actually we don't know any mechanism that could make the universe fall back collapsing, the most probable thing it is that, due to dark energy, there will be a moment when the distance between two objects would expand faster than light, making impossible to 2 particles to be together, and therefore it will be impossible to atoms to exist, the only things remaining in the end of our universe will ve photons traveling alone, it's called the big rip, due to the atoms will be ripped apart. After that it's calculed that in 1x10^x (idk the exact number, but an enormous quantity of years, so big that the actual age of our universe 13,8 billion years would not be even 1/1000 of the period of time. Anyways returning to what will happen after that, it's calculed that quantum tunneling could trigger the void collapsing the universe in a very tiny and dense space, creating a new big bang and making the process repeat infinitely.
kek
how dare you question the findings of the neue germanische physik?
Frank Heile, P.h.D. Physics, Stanford University
"The black hole mentioned previously that will last for only 1 second (with a mass of a "blue whale") will start that last second at a temperature of 5.6×1017K and in that last second of its life the total energy of all the radiation it emits will be 5 million megatons of TNT! This amount of energy is about 1000 times the total nuclear arsenal of all the nations on Earth and is about 1.4 times the total Solar energy hitting the surface of Earth in a day. Now if the mass of the black hole were twice as big, it would take 8 seconds to evaporate (since it increases by M3) and it would double the total energy emitted. So half of that total energy will be emitted in the last second and the other half will be emitted in the preceding 7 seconds. Thus the energy per unit time emitted by a black hole increases exponentially - but it starts at such an extremely tiny initial value for typical astrophysical black holes that it "almost" takes forever for them to blow up! Clearly, in the last stages of a black hole's evaporation they act like very hot bodies emitting lots of radiation and they eventually explode at the very end of their lives. Note that all black holes end their lives in the same way with the same kind of explosion. All their initial mass does is change how long it takes to evaporate and explode."
it all begins with nothing, and then some holes
"Deutsche Physik (German: [ˈdɔʏtʃə fyˈziːk], lit. "German Physics") or Aryan Physics (German: Arische Physik) was a nationalist movement in the German physics community in the early 1930s. A pseudoscientific movement, it nonetheless won the support of many eminent physicists in Germany. The term was taken from the title of a 4-volume physics textbook by Nobel Laureate Philipp Lenard in the 1930s."
>pseudoscience
Starts with nothing. Then, for some explainable reason, nothing fucking explodes. That explosion is everything.
If only we had some clue at all what nothing is, and why or how the fuck it would fucking explode, and then suddenly become everything, we'd actually know something. But, we don't. We are, apparently, made of nothing.
That's what Quantum Physicist Sir Roger Penrose's recent paper was about. You should def read it "Hawking points"
God user. The answer is God.
You sound like a religious nut. We don't know. We don't have enough information to make all those conclusions. It doesn't matter what you believe in. That's just nonsense. What will happen will happen regardless of what you believe or don't believe. We have some math and some observations. We know some things, we don't know a lot of things. Pretending to know things we don't know is just stupid.
The best explanation I've heard:
Imagine a room, the room is perfectly square and empty except for several pool balls equally spread apart from each other with equal distance from one to the next in any direction. Then remove one ball. When one ball is removed gravity takes over and all the other balls fall into chaos. Think of the balls as sub atomic particles and the room as the universe, in the beginning we can theorize every particle in the universe could have been evenly spaced out as I described but something disturbed this state of being causing a chain reaction resulting in the eventual explosion we call the big bang.
I may have a paraphrased a bit but that helped me wrap my head around the idea. It's not a perfect explanation but it definitely dumbs it down so that any who isnt sn astrophysicist can kind of get it.
If that was the case, what causes the shift from expansion to contraction? And, depending ON the timescale of this, we would see a lot more blueshifted galaxies, since a non-expanding eternal univers would have an infinite cosmic horizon. Based on how distant galaxies are and theire occilation between red and blueshifting, we could map the rate of occilation for the universe. Sry english bad.
>he fell for the math meme
I'm not looking for an answer. Not in that way. I'm perfectly content with not having all the information. I can continue my life perfectly well, and happily, knowing there are things we don't know. A lot of things we don't know. I don't need to fill those holes with nonsense so I can feel secure for some reason. It makes no sense to me. We'll figure it out, someone will eventually figure out a way to understand what nothing is, or properly imagine it and model it in a way we can study it.
Just read the Bible my dude. It's all in there.
I can't prove anything.
That's why I said belief.
BBT scientists can prove shit with equations and data?
Good, that's why they are respected and I'm posting on Yea Forums.
For me though, the idea of the universe having a point of start seems just wrong.
Scientists used to believe in luminiferous aether and it was disproved.
Now BBT talk about dark matter and dark energy.
I think in the future these will be proved wrong and people will laugh on how wrong we were.
/thread
I'm not claiming to know anything. It's all just food for thought. I think your frustration stems from your inability to process larger ideas. You're a moron who failed to understand the basic premise of the thread. Read a book.
ITT people who last read a scientific paper on the subject in 2002 and think it’s accurate.
What if the world was expanding and shrinking rapidly before, but this time something got fucked up and it never stopped to expand?
Just read Hawking's book "A brief history of time"
Easy to understand
Can I download it for free?
i would add only one thing here. apparently some people have heard of the "big crunch" but you probably don't know about how temperature actually works. it's oddly funny if you know how a signed integer works.
using 32-bit signed integers, an early demonstration in computer science is what happens if you add 1 to the limit of a 31-bit number. that is, if you add 1 to 2,147,483,647, the result is -2,147,483,648. the fucking funny thing is... that's what happens with temperature if you get COLDER than "absolute zero"; it suddenly flips to what would be planck temperature.
think about it.
>believe
That's how deep Religion has ingrained into our society.
>pic related
Science isn't about belief. It's the exact opposite of belief. It's about the explanation of natural phenomena through proof; mathematical proof, thought experiments or repeatable physical experiments.
That's my source. I can actually move on to other things instead of verifying the validity of the verification of my sources credibility until next year when science changes. We will never fucking /know/ but its pretty damn obvious if you go outside.
Thats why I am angry you're just potentiating the cycle of people absorbing and regurgitating vs being able to discuss the power of their own sense and accept some people are morons for ignoring their environment.
Dark matter and dark energy are just names for things we don't understand, but which we kinda observed. It's a placeholder for a real explanation.
you're such a faggot lol go back to /x/
In b4 religion
You guys overwhelm yourselves with research. Think why would a universe that doesn't operate in a rhythm, have everything which it contains operate in a rhythm. Soundwaves, fractals, light, gravity. They can all be measured or predicted repetitive increments. What makes anyone strongly believe that this would be borne of anything that WASN'T simply two opposing forces, something that hadn't happened before? What reason is there not to believe that h smallest things give clues to the bigger things because in reality, the insane lengths of time and distance will never and are never, meant to be comprehended?
Maybe instead of chasing the dragon everyone could then concentrate on getting laid and not being a dick.
Dark matter red poles of magnetic bullshit you will never fucking know. As above so below. Study whats in front of your face and if you aren't a drooling tool, sense comes.
>placeholder
So was luminiferous aether but it didn't fly so good.
You are speaking of irrelevant things. It's simply a discussion on theories. You are getting upset over nothing. People discuss things going outside doesn't fucking tell me anything about the creation of the universe. I'm sorry the education system failed you son.
>Bible thumper detected.
Oh,Did I just shake your foundations of belief? Wait how can you have any, since you don't even believe the bible (since you haven't read it), but only what your local church does.
>Science isn't about belief. It's the exact opposite of belief. It's about the explanation of natural phenomena through proof; mathematical proof, thought experiments or repeatable physical experiments.
So why does the "science" community believe in the big bang and evolution despite having no evidence that could undoubtedly confirm their "existence"?
>unable to understand metaphors
>im not stupid religion is stupid
Organized religion is stupid but only a kid looking to berry his dick would believe it was what he skimmed off the surface
Apparently people in this thread don't understand that a theory is. Assuming that someone is stating something as fact instead of them contributing to a hypothetical discussion makes you a moron. We don't have any scientists in the thread nobody knows shit. Stop getting insecure about people humoring ideas outside of your core beliefs.
>observing the universe doesn't tell me anything about the universe, stagnating in a computer driven echo chamber does
Suuuure
kek you lost me but this is p meme tier.
This.
>nothing explodes
>Jewish science
All I needed to hear.
I don't know. But it's worth the money. He (his family) deserves it
>particles the size of estimated planck lenght/volume (if you can call 0-dimensional pockets of space volume) are well known for their weird nature and stuff they randomly pull through
>plebs are still baffled by fact that universe did weird shit when it was infinitesimally smoll
>plebs still insist something caused big bang
>plebs still think there was something before big bang
>plebs still come up with their wacky theories despite the leading physicists that are researching the same subjects have no real clue
>bro these stars legit saying shit bout the universe n stuff
what the fuck are you trying to prove lol. There is a limit to what I can discover by going outside. Unless I get access to some seriously technology courtesy of some generous scientist I think I'll stick to sources online.
Right. Metaphors. How could I be such an idiot?
So Jesus really didn't exist, huh? It's all metaphorical. It's just that you us all "non-believers" fooled for such a long time, we actually started "believing" that you all thought it was straight up facts.
This.
I may be hated for this but I believe that religion and science are similar.
Both require symbolic thinking and imagination and are unique to humans.
Both lead to some of the greatest achievements of man, eg art, mathematics, philosophy.
Both can become destructive in huge quantities, eg religious fanaticism, destruction, nuclear weapons, environment pollution.
I think religion and science are not enemies like weak minds think.
They both are the greatest achievement of man.
It is pretty hard to be interested in the discussion of, or have passion in wikipedia articles. Everyone in said thread ends up discussing things outside of their means so someone else can feel stupid. If discussions were based on what we could see and feel everyone could participate and no certain beliefs would be exclusive. Discussing theory all day is like jacking off when your dick is numb... Why??
How can you discuss anything while insisting on being centrist apathetic whats the point
That's kinda what the scientific community does. They create theories to broaden the discussion and add to what might be possible.
>lol let the smart people do it becus i have fucking dog shit brain xdddd
It's entertaining. I don't need to give you a solid reason anyway. I will continue to do it and enjoy it.
But there will always be a limit, is kind of what I am saying. Time will always change measure and distances will get bigger. Why would you think you are limited in knowledge at any level of existence in such a universe? It is only the forced schism of theoretical thought that does this
>weak minds
superiority complex detected. but you're not wrong.
>stick to sources online.
you believe things you read on the internet?
like.. are you clinically retarded? how did you even manage to turn on your pc, did your caretaker do that for you? given this is just another thing I've read on the internet, you probably are a lying troll. still in some dark corner of my mind I can fathom people like you really existing.
Thank you
leave the thread then nigger
Hey its terrible what people desiring power do to get it. There's just no reason to so vehemently discredit anything when our lifetimes are a blip in comparison
we don't understand anything really, in a sense we only deal with analogies and bad translations of what's really happening
the concept of light isn't any more real that the concept of dragons, except we ascribe the concept of light to something that is evidently real
dark energy and dark matter don't hold place for anything real, even if scientists were to discover the ulterior cause of those phenomena, htey would still be same dark matter and dark energy, just like dark matter is ulterior cause of faster than expected galaxy rotation and dark energy is the ulterior cause of universal red shift
Oh you must be one of those supreme being who read the newspaper or the homeless man around the corner. Are you trying to imply that literally everything online is forged? You can cross examine articles and still come up with personal opinions. Are you trying to come off as dumb?
It just doesn't seem entertaining. It seems like it would frustrate anyone
Probably will, just have my own rocks to get off and like to check once in a while whos who.
It's not unwise to think that maybe one day we will discover the true nature of those things. At the rate we've been learning and evolving with technology we could very well achieve this in the next say 30 years.
And add, and add, and add, and add.
Mathmatically we are getting stupider. It doesn't take cocket science to see that.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-some smart guy?
>mathematically
this has to be bait
>I don't believe in the universe expanding and destroying itself permanently.
>I personally believe that the universe won't expand forever and will eventually fall back on itself becoming one super massive black hole that eventually will shrink due to hawking radiation and explode resulting in a new big bang.
>I [[do]] believe in the universe expanding and destroying itself [[continuously]].
There, I've reconciled and summated your two statements.
lul this is literally how christfags think.
Read the bible, retard
they don't create theories, they create hypotheses
they start with a positive statement, say for simplicity:
>gravity bends light
they test it by observing light coming around bodies of strong gravity
>they observe truly that light is bent by gravity
following from the fact that light has no mass they cocnlude with theory
>gravity must bend spacetime in order to observe the phenomena of light bend
now this is a super simplistic and largely innacurate version of what science does, but I guess it can help in understanding process of scientific reaserch
try actual books, university lectures, scientific articles, as in, an actual education. sure you can come up with personal opinions reading shit online, but those personal opinions will be incredibly retarded.
I have. Bet you have not...
a singularity is an infinite point of space-time. it cannot expand per se.
but perhaps on the opposite side... there could be a “white hole” which is what you hopefully meant?
So you read a brief history of time then EY? The universal collapsal theory is my favourite. We are indefinitely dying and being reborn in a time loop.
Your understating if science is old and stagnant by those who wish to not lose their day job. Start studying the EU model or be left behind with old beliefs.
>how can a historical character ALSO be a symbol for something????
Thats you. You're fully retarded.
Do you think I get all my sources from Yea Forums man? Why are you assuming I'm incapable of discerning a good source from a shit source? You want a real intellectual ?
youtube.com
I can entertain thoughts, from people. What I find hard to entertain are second, third, and upteenth party thoughts. There is no reason anyone should think they aren't privy to original thought because they aren't wearing a labcoat using a microscope. The smaller we see, the larger we see the more we find our original knowledge repeats itself. Small bodies act like large ones and vise versa. I would like hearing what everyone thinks from the world they see around them, not what they read of an accredited opinion. But I also understand thats a choice and if thats how you like going about it I am no one to say nay. It just seems like more cockgrabbing. People are guaged on their ability to absorb and expel.
Pretty god damn bold coming in like that. I will study into those though. Also why is the EU ahead? Wouldn't the west adapt to new models if proven to be more probable ?
Holy crap this place has reached new levels of cringe.
>Bunch of pretentious neets talking about physics theories as if they're an authority on where our universe came from
>Literally posting on a Mongolian basket weaving forum.
From the outside looking in I can safely say this entire thread looks like it wouldnt be out of place on Reddit.
hate to be pedantic, but even if we were to discover """true nature"""" of those things we'd still not understand it properly
I like your optimism for the future, but physicists from beginning of 20th centure were certain physics has been thouroughly mapped and all that was left was getting precise measurements and calculations
Is your life easier when you have two choices to make or three?
Do you understand the universe anymore at 27 choices? Or do you have 24 more ways to run into an existential crisis?
Its a troll
I am tempted to just call you a weaker version of Terrence McKenna with all the random shit you're talking about. Why are we diving into human nature ?
So so now he is not metaphorical. He was real but also metaphorical. Cannot you people fucking decide? Super fucking kek.
Thanks for showing to all of /b what you "belivers" think. Rather, how you think.
another moron assuming anyone in this thread is trying to prove their point of view as fact.
your insecurity is showing, user.
No shit nigga. But that doesn't really make the statements false.
Great get to copying and pasting it there. You know what that place is like and you're too cool for this place.
Go on.
If you still call it the big bang you are only keeping the false name alive. Do some research and go find out. Concidering no one is an expert on something that may or may not have happened a long long time ago.
You're projecting yourself onto me.
Sure. I could do that. I know I can do that. I very much choice to discuss it on here. Please stop being dense.
Thanks for showing how you're just waiting to paint any thoughts not your own "believers" while boasting how amused you are inside your bubble
>Anno domini MMXIX
>people still thing big bang was an explosion
kek
EU=electric universe. More than half the craters an anomalies on the moon and Mars were created by massive electrical discharges. If this peaks your interest you should also read about the golden age of Saturn. The truth is stranger than fiction. Search utube for “remembering the end of the world” if you’re short on time.
Every time I forget why there is discussion here I get reminded in two minutes.
Not even children would be this dedicated to ruining everything. Its like a dog that got off its leash and can't be controlled.
If any of you think memorizing all the fallacy names, behavioral defects, and conversational power moves is going to get you anything real in life well, fuck.
Have fun
Kek. Did I hurt your feelings by being amused? Aww.
Go read the Bible, probably that would make you feel better.
But I know you won't. So, here have your self a chapter (pic related).
Is not*
You're right. The big bang expanded like a balloon. Black holes are theorized to explode on death. This doesn't add up.
Based
this guy is having a really bad time in this thread lol
No. It would be pointless to try to let you know how you look from someone that isn't you. You're in a discussion, laughing at discussion. You came here to jerk yourself off while not looking at porn and it isnt frustrating or sad, humorous. There aren't words for the stupid boxes people lock themselves in nowadays somehow thinking that is making them smarter when really its the exact same way every kid is. Whoever can talk faster, louder, and act like they or the audience is more amused, wins.
People get into it so fucking deep and you just have to watch like wow, there goes another one. When I was younger folks wouldn't share knowledge and nowadays they will but kids are convinced facebook has more answers than something that has been concious for 30 years.
you know all of those things can be accessed online, right?
There is a certain quality found in a person who will physically move for unique bits of knowledge versus a person who believes all the same comes from a lit box next to cheetos, and you know it
Tl;dr.
>hasn't read the bible
>supports it anyway
>someone points out the fallacy, albeit in a funny way
>realizes he doesn't have any cover to hide behind
>resorts to child-like name calling, while stating he is over 30
(but maybe that last part was supposed to be metaphorical, I dunno)
there is also a certain quality to a person who thinks there is a quality difference between a printed version of a scientific paper and a digital one
having to physically move doesn't make you smart, grandpa
It just gets tiring talking to people who are only interested in who can argue better. I come here to be real. Lots of peoole are alone, lots of people aggravated by how superficial normal society is. How do you "support" a book? You can't tell if its a view, idea, or goal. With all the stigma attached to it plus historical significance it seemed like a good read. It is an interesting book and there is definitely something in there for everyone. Just like is happening now though, people do not discuss it. They have to subscribe to someone else's organized idea of what is or is not acceptable.
Nothing you implied is necessarily true. There's no way you could know anything about another person without asking. The biggest joke is people believing anyone is interested in what they don't ask about
It makes you disciplined and gives sigbificance to the bits of knowledge you attain. Try differentiating the things you learn on the computer any better than your porn collection. It is not a complicated concept to understand
I have no idea how i trick myself every day into thinking there are still real people here