Jesus Loves You, even when you sin

I wasn't wasting words on you, maybe a lurker will enjoy them. I'm gonna pray for the christians in your life to intercede and help you and preach the gospel to you so that one day you have the perspective God intended you to have.

>he hasn't read any of the books of smart people commenting on these topics for the last 2000 years
>he thinks a few overly reductionist fedora-tier criticisms will bring down the entire ediface of Christian theology
I don't have enough smug anime girls for this feel

You're free to do that, but you wouldn't be the first and I doubt you'll be the last. In that prayer has any effect whatsoever, it's as a placebo / nocebo.

Jesus was a fictional character created as the council of Nicaea. Sorry friend. I understand that believing in Jesus helps to ....shed fear of death, and give meaning to life. Just know, that from the other side of the fence there is a deeper vision of meaning and understanding not based on a dead made up man-god.

If you have an argument to make, feel free to make it.

Jesus Gonzales especially "loves" you while you're sining.

>Toot toot I'm a Jew
But it's okay jesus wasn't really a jew he was just a rogue rabbi but he was white despite being born in camelville because it was an immaculate conception.

Christianity in itself is relatively harmless, in that it promotes meekness and puts you at peace with the fact there is very little any of us can really control. However, when you reject your own natural cycle of negative which accompanies the light you will make yourself neurotic. I am just posting information given by a wise man, maybe you will watch this maybe not. But I am posting it, because someone in this thread is ready to hear it. youtube.com/watch?v=32MiAPR2S4g

Christ is literally God.

Why don't you try actually reading a book or two on this topic by a respected thinker (and not some faggot American Protestant) rather than expecting some Yea Forumstard to educate you on the basic principles of your civilization?
Faggot.

Allegedly

Thank you, Jesus. Now I'm going back to sin a little bit more.

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That's not what the bible says... the immutable word of God. The all good, all knowing, and all powerful God.
It's sad that I actually believed that stuff.
You should take a peek at what's in the book you're preaching about.

Christ means 'The anointed one'. Have you ever researched the origin of that term? The origin of Christ? You might be surprised the first Christ was actually Alexander the Great, anointed in Crocodile fat on the banks of the Nile. The first Christians followed him. Of course, they were after his death, kinda like the Bronze age ISIS. Rome had to come up with a way to manipulate the masses. They decided to create a new Christ, based on the lives of Issa the Saint, Horus the God of Egypt, astrology, and of course to kill anyone that didn't convert. They burned the Library of Alexander among other texts in order to subvert the movement and establish the Church of Rome. Now over 2000 years later we are being manipulated to believe in this deity. If you feel in your core something is off... that its not quite right, look into it and you will find out the truth. It doesn't mean not believing in a God, and honestly Issa the Essene minister was incredibly wise and beautiful in his teachings. Go find real depth.

Bless you, you'll inherit the earth.

Peace in Christ, brother.

Not an argument. Also, you realize that just because someone 'respected' says something, it doesn't mean it's true, right?

ladyluck best girl
fight me

>not an argument
Epic meme.
>it doesn't mean it's true, right?
No shit, faggot. I didn't even tell you that you had to believe anything you read. But it's clear to me that you haven't read anything of value on this topic beyond fedora-tier memery (some of which is of objectively high quality, like "The God Delusion" or the writings of Dennett). You don't have to believe string theory is the One True Theory of Physics, but if you want to go argue about it on /sci/, you better actually know what the fuck you're talking about.

Zeitgeist-tier nonsense

>Zeitgeist-tier nonsense

I was a priest for 12 years, and understand perfectly what I am talking about.

Christ loves you user.
I feel so sorry for your parents who otherwise raised a good Christian son up to age 15ish

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Religion is cancer.

You were never born again and yet taught? That's a sad story. Who was the Jew you allowed to sink his fangs into you?

The comparison with physics doesn't really hold up, as physics makes testable predictions while theology does not. It would be silly to make an argument about string theory when experimental results have already shown you to be wrong, but theology doesn't work that way. If you want to argue that I'm wrong, then argue that I'm wrong. Simply telling me to read the opinions of others accomplishes nothing.

"I don't like being told about my sin"

btw, I can tell you haven't read anything on this topic because instead of making relevant, serious criticisms of Christian theology (emergence disproving the "complexity requires complexity" issue, the difficulty of reconciling the mythology of Genesis with the evolution of homo sapiens, "process theology" heresy, and so on and so on) you're just making shitty high school level criticisms like "BUT IF GAWD LOVED US HE WOULDN'T SEND PEOPLE TO HELL" as if we've all forgotten to notice this for the last two thousand years.
I'm not even telling you that you're wrong. I'm telling you that your criticisms are dogshit and that you should be in class instead of shitposting on Yea Forums from the high school library.

ahahahaha cool story bro

I did experience the born-again cult and was amazed by the trance-like fever the people whipped themselves into. I was ordained by the Roman Catholic Church, and believe me they barely understand a thing.

So does anime.

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That's gay

thanks and jesus saves btw!

>emergence disproving the "complexity requires complexity" issue, the difficulty of reconciling the mythology of Genesis with the evolution of homo sapiens, "process theology" heresy, and so on and so on
I haven't mentioned these things for one simple reason, they haven't been relevant to the discussion. I haven't been arguing about whether or not Christianity is true, I've been discussing the implications of if it was true.
>you're just making shitty high school level criticisms like "BUT IF GAWD LOVED US HE WOULDN'T SEND PEOPLE TO HELL" as if we've all forgotten to notice this for the last two thousand years.
I don't think people have "forgotten to notice it", but I've yet to hear a satisfactory solution, and I will keep bringing it up when relevant until I do. There is very little that is ever truly new in these discussions.

You stand condemned in the sight of Almighty God. You cool with that?

Amen! I found Christ last year!
>Depression
*Poof*
>Anxiety
*Poof*
>Suicidal thoughts
*Poof*
>Nihilism
*Poof*

Jesus Loves Jews, even when they sin.

I found Waldo.

>literal argument from consequences
Yeah, the implication is that if you aren't saved in Christ, you're going to hell. The fact that you don't like this doesn't mean there haven't been thousands of books written on the topic that you should have read.
"but nobody ever explained it to me in a way that made sense to me and didn't hurt my feelings"
Faggot.

>I've yet to hear a satisfactory solution
Since you've posted absolutely nothing that requires any knowledge of Christian theology (merely r/atheism-tier "criticisms"), I doubt you've heard (or understand) *any* solutions.

My girlfriend and I had a similar experience. Religion made my ADHD and her depression much more manageable in our day-to-day lives.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13

>The fact that you don't like this doesn't mean there haven't been thousands of books written on the topic that you should have read
> I doubt you've heard (or understand) *any* solutions.
It should be trivial for you to cite one solution that holds up to scrutiny then.

Satan

don't listen to him he satan

Not him, but are you saying you doubt the existence of Western Historical writings centering around Christ and morality?

TipTop Judaism moshe

ayy

>TipTop Judaism moshe
>Satan trips
Their symbolism will be their undoing.

I don't doubt the existence of writings around Christ and morality. I do doubt that they hold up to scrutiny.

STEM Grad with Fundie Baptist beliefs
AMA

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>satan trips
lmao

Fine, I'll pick apart some of the dogshit you've posted. You're not even asking meaningful questions.

>However, it is clear that even if this is true, God did not create people with the choice to do anything at all. You cannot choose to ignore gravity or electromagnetism, for instance. Your choices are constrained.
Yes, Christians acknowledge that a logical God would create a logical world with rules -- in fact this is necessary in order for anything to happen at all. Physics is a necessary component of a functioning universe. You should be aware, for example, that practically all of the early scientists were Christians, interested in learning about the world as a means of understanding God. The Christian belief in a logical, orderly universe is the underlying concept that created the rise of science in the West. You can read "The Victory of Reason" by Rodney Stark for more on this theme.

>And created a system that would necessarily result in infinite suffering.
Humans are flawed because we are animals with shitty animal brains. We suffer regardless. If you're arguing against some kind of Calvinist-Creationist strawman, then you should stop.

>Why not? Is God not all powerful?
Hurr, "can god create a boulder so heavy he couldn't lift it???" No. God is not "all powerful", in that he cannot make things happen which are a priori impossible -- he is Himself constrained by basic principles of logic. Christians have acknowledged this ever since Aquinas reconciled Christian thought with Aristotle.

The whole underlying idea behind this strawman (God created the world, bad stuff happens in the world, God is responsible for it because he's omniscient/omnipresent, therefore God is bad) is an objectively incorrect understanding of Christianity. You're having difficulty finding effective counterarguments to your position because *nobody holds the position that your premises imply*.

>Jesus Loves You
there is no jesus and there is no god

Oh, so you're just saying "nuh uh" with your fingers in your ears over and over?

Chan Clowns get the rope first.

As long as you're not a YEC with turbomeme science denialist beliefs, it's nice to see someone else interested in carrying on the tradition of Christians seeking to understand the work of God.

>Christians acknowledge that a logical God would create a logical world with rules
Who determines logic?
>Humans are flawed because we are animals with shitty animal brains.
Who determined that this would be the case?
>We suffer regardless
Who determined that suffering should exist?
>he is Himself constrained by basic principles of logic.
Does God define logic or does logic define God?

It's more the other way around.

Men condemn through misunderstanding or under-appreciating themselves in others. God is all, good and bad. Imposing ideas on God only limits God. At least your own perception of God/Infinite After-all you have a limited mind.

This universe just exists guys. The existence of matter atoms and a volume of space (xyzt) for it to exist in is just an accident.

Did you not understand any of the other words in my post? You're still making the same baseless assertions and implications that I said you should stop making. I demand that you cease this teenage faggotry at once.

Get right with God
>When
Now
>How
Kneel down at the cross
>Where
Where Jesus shed His blood

Not an argument. I'm raising problems with the words in your post.

>What
Pray to a MEME
>When
When you decide you cannot handle reality
>Why
It is easier not to think

No, you're engaging in faggot teenage sophistry because you think you're smarter than you actually are. You didn't engage with any of the *points*, preferring instead to raise issues with commonly-understood concepts because you think "BUT GOD IS A LOGICALLY CIRCULAR CONCEPT LMAO" is a serious criticism.

yea sorry but i dont believe in some party trickster who got nailed to a bunch of sticks

I love myself when I sin too
And I sin by loving myself

>with commonly-understood concepts because you think "BUT GOD IS A LOGICALLY CIRCULAR CONCEPT LMAO" is a serious criticism.
If it's so commonly understood, it should be trivial to address.

Jesus loves me, he loves me a bunch, he always puts Skippy in my lunch

I'm not going to waste my time defining basic concepts of philosophy for you just because you're too young to have read Aristotle. Let me know when you want to address anything I actually said instead of just trolling for definitions.
I'll pray for you.
Faggot.

youtube.com/watch?v=0sYFnRKB5ng

I've already asked the leading questions to address what you actually said. You refuse to engage with them. You're free to stop replying at any time, and I'll simply be able to keep saying that I've never gotten a satisfactory solution to the issues I raised.

Dear Jesus
Please forgive my sins.
I know they aren't very big, but I can't forgive myself.
I am so very sorry for everything.

It doesn't matter what I say, you'll always be right no matter what

>leading questions
You aren't as smart as you think you are. You're trying to engage in some kind of longwinded Socratic dogshit to demonstrate that only atheists understand TRUE logic, or some other such nonsense.
All of the questions in this post just demonstrate that you haven't thought about this topic at all.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Alright then.

Just be honest with him dude, you don't have the answer. How the fuck WOULD you have an answer for that without being a God yourself.
You, leave the Christian alone. He will suffer and die alone just like you so show humility not just stroke your ego.

Not an argument. You can assert whatever you like about my intelligence or what I have or haven't thought about, but it won't address what I've said. If you spent some of the time you use trying to undermine me through insults into actually making a case, we might get somewhere.

Only Mathematicians understand TRUE logic.

lol no

The person you said "it doesn't matter what I say" wasn't me. Sad that 4channers can't recognize that shit nowadays. Pay attention!

Faggot. This isn't your high school cafeteria where you think you look smart for questioning fundamental concepts and wasting everyone's time.

Math is dope.

So, the boilerplate Christian "I lost, but here's why I really won, think abouut it as I run away as fast as possible" then.

Yawn.

Still not an argument.

More of this faggot's inability to tell who they are talking to. Apparently you're also a newfag. Disgusting.

Go back to your Stefan Molyneux podcasts with this "not an argument" bullshit. You're so fucking autistic. It's no wonder you don't have any friends. Nobody can tolerate this kind of behavior. This isn't how real people communicate.

I guess I should tell the guy who asked me to be one of his groomsmen at his wedding next week that he's not my friend.
>This isn't how real people communicate.
In a sense I guess you got me there. Simply insulting the other person instead of having a rational conversation, which is all you seem capable of doing, is how most people seem to communicate.

Hell wasn't always a place for punishment, it was once a place for redemption. Fallen angels turn it into one as resentment for being thrown there, turning them into demons.
It was once called purgatory. Now hell it is divided in 7 principal rings, as the entrance now stands as the Purgatory* (Sheol, then the Abbadon), and so on...

also this, mostly this

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Hi there. Atheist who has read more books than you ever will here.

Why do you assume he hasn't read them? You'er not suggesting that even one book has been written that establishes the truth of Christianity, do you? Let alone numerous such books?

Are you really stupid enough to think nobody has heard of these books because Satan is working hard to keep people from your religion?

There are no such books. Every apologetics work, without exception, has failed to make its case. You can't get more than a chapter or two in before running into a lie. And if you have to lie to get me to believe, you're not trying to get me to believe anything true.

Enjoy your unearned superiority complex while your religion still enjoys significant power. It's going to be interesting to watch it asphxiate now that it's cut off from its source of power.

Who enabled the angels to do that?

All fiction belongs on

>
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
>Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

>tries to control the flow of the conversation with autistic definition-demands and a refusal to engage with actual context
>"he's just insulting me and not actually having a discussion
F
A
G
G
O
T

I can smell you through my fucking computer screen, holy shit. Wash your penis.
It's pathetic how you think you're a genius because you have a normalfaggot religious belief in the 21st century, also that you come in and assert "I'VE READ MOAR BOOKS THAN U DUMASS" just because you're not a Christfag.

>Who enabled the angels to do that?
What do you mean? Be more specific with your question fam and I will be glad to answer.

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>tries to control the flow of the conversation with autistic definition-demands
Nope.
>a refusal to engage with actual context
Nope.
>"he's just insulting me and not actually having a discussion
Yep.
>FAGGOT
Case in point.

Okay. Who created the angels with the capacity to turn hell into a place for punishment, allowed them to turn hell into a place for punishment, and then allows humans to go there?

He didn't make ANY assertions or implications, you syphilitic moron. He asked a number of questions about your assertions.

That you don't understand that, or why his questions spell the end of your religion, tells me the one completely ignorant of this argument is you.

Shut your whore mouth with your theology. Stop repeating words you don't understand that you think magically make you the winner of an argument, and go back to your hole.

Or you can demonstrate that your god exists, or point to exactly where somebody else did that.

Those are your options, man. Your god has not been substantiated and thus it is not reasonable to believe in it.

If that ever changes, wel'll ALL know. It won't be another "secret wisdom" you tell yourself you have to make yourself feel better.

We can all see that you're just pretending, you know.

You so obviously have nothing that you refuse to let an argument occur. I guess you can't lose an argument about religion if you're actually having an argument about whether or not you're arguing, but that you have to do that is just another fact to toss on the giant pile of Christian weakness.

Ah, the sweet smell of Christian flop sweat. This is why I argue with Christians on the internet.

Thanks for making it worth it.

>Okay.
k, will try to answer without much blah blah, so I can point on the answers to your questions

>Who created the angels with the capacity to turn hell into a place for punishment,
God. He created everything.

>allowed them to turn hell into a place for punishment,
Is not a thing of allowing. Free will was a gift given to every consent creation. It is implied that Angels (some of them) were jealous of this gift and turn against God.
The observation of humans awake in them these feelings, giving them also Free will. The first betrayal was lead by the angel of light, who considered humans not worth of such gift.

Same as the Forbidden fruit in the Eden. It wasn't the fruit that gave Adam and Eve super powers. It was just a simple fruit. However it awoke in humans the instinct of doubt, because for the human's perspective, there was no reason to prohibit a simple fruit.

>and then allows humans to go there?
>allows
This was decided right after the exile of the Eden

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>God. He created everything.
So why did he create angels with the capacity to turn hell into a place of punishment? There is more than simply free will at work here, they were given an ability to do so.
>Is not a thing of allowing.
Sure it is. If you able to stop something from happening but choose not to, then you are allowing it.
>This was decided right after the exile of the Eden
So do you acknowledge that God has knowingly created a system in which humans end up in a place of punishment?

So why should I bother loving him back and not sinning?

>So why did he create angels with the capacity to turn hell into a place of punishment? There is more than simply free will at work here, they were given an ability to do so.
God created things, none of this things can be perfect otherwise nothing would be achieved.
There is a reason why it is implied that humans are the closest creation to God. It is because they can also create, something that is not easy achievable by any other sentient being, even Angels.

You are given not only the ability, but also the resources to be a whore, however lets imply you are not one. You have everything to satisfy men, and ass and a mouth, but you choose not to be one.

>Sure it is. If you able to stop something from happening but choose not to, then you are allowing it.
Thats a very human way of thinking things user, and a very weak one that is. If you can stop a train from going any further you could just throw yourself under it. I can assure you it will stop.

>So do you acknowledge that God has knowingly created a system in which humans end up in a place of punishment?
You are not reading what I wrote at the beginning. If you want to make me trip, at least read, and comprehend what I am writing.

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Yeshua, but correct
I guess when your dad spanked you or put you in time out, that proves he actually hates you, right?

I dunno about you, but my dad didn't build a torture chamber in the basement and throw me in there for all eternity.

Yours did not?

>God created things, none of this things can be perfect otherwise nothing would be achieved.
Is God perfect? Did he achieve something through the act of creation?
>You are given not only the ability, but also the resources to be a whore
Sure, but I cannot, say, spontaneously jump up to the moon or turn off electromagnetism. We clearly have limitations on what we are capable of doing.
>Thats a very human way of thinking things user
I don't see how.
>If you can stop a train from going any further you could just throw yourself under it.
A human throwing itself under a train won't stop it. If I was omnipotent though, then I could stop it with a thought.
>You are not reading what I wrote at the beginning
Did angels falling happen before or after the exile of Eden? In any event, was God unaware of the change that took place?

Point is, it's punishment, not douchebaggery. Do you hate everyone that went to prison? God has to send people to prison, regardless of his feelings.

Are people released from hell? Is infinite punishment for finite crimes just?

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>implying there's not indefinite punishment in our judicial system

There can't be, because eventually we die.

>Is God perfect?
Yes, however perfection is a concept not achievable and measurable by humans.

>Did he achieve something through the act of creation?
You can ask him. I cannot answer for him. However as a human that reads a lot I can only imagine that he achieved to fulfill his purpose, or his dream. Maybe his legacy.

>Sure, but I cannot, say, spontaneously jump up to the moon or turn off electromagnetism. We clearly have limitations on what we are capable of doing.
God does not

>I don't see how.
Thats right, you don't.

>A human throwing itself under a train won't stop it.
You are wrong, I have seen it and it does stop

>If I was omnipotent though, then I could stop it with a thought.
But why? if you are omnipotent, why does the train seems like a challenge to you? You talk about omnipotent power, but as a mere human.

>Did angels falling happen before or after the exile of Eden?
It is implied that after

>In any event, was God unaware of the change that took place?
He was aware. He is aware of all things that can and will happen.

You are a school bully and you are taken to detention. You can learn your lesson and get out, or you can continue with your bullshit inside detention and remain there. You can even be a pain in the ass for the ones that are there with you. You suffer there, and they do too.

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But for all of your existence on earth, it's indefinite. Hell, atheists believe that's the entirety consiousness.

>You can ask him.
Oddly enough, God has never answered me.
> I can only imagine that he achieved to fulfill his purpose, or his dream
If that is true and God is indeed perfect, then clearly you can be perfect and still achieve things.
>God does not
Right, but Angels do, yes? Why weren't Angels limited to prevent them from turning Hell into a place of punishment?
>Thats right, you don't.
Okay.
>I have seen it and it does stop
I have also seen it and the human is turned into a horrifying mess of flesh as the train barrels through them.
>But why?
>like a challenge
It wouldn't be a challenge at all, but by not stopping it then you are allowing it to continue.
>It is implied that after
I've heard other opinions, but we'll go with yours for this conversation.
>He was aware. He is aware of all things that can and will happen
So why does he allow it?
>You can learn your lesson and get out
Can humans leave hell?
>You can even be a pain in the ass for the ones that are there with you.
However, if I try to beat up the others there with me, the teacher will stop me.

The point is that your existence on earth isn't indefinite. The punishment inevitably ends. Not so with an infinite hell.

Still irrelevant but whatever

Seems very relevant. Punishment should fit the crime, no?

And to him it does. He does know more than you or I.

>to him it does
Which is why I say he would be evil.

>Oddly enough, God has never answered me.
Fair nuff. It is well known God does never speaks directly to humans. In some passages it is say that a mere glance to him could instantly kill you (maybe is too much power, or too much as a whole for the human body and mind to handle?).
However is it said that many people about to pass out and die can hear him and see him in their last moments.

>If that is true and God is indeed perfect, then clearly you can be perfect and still achieve things.
Achieve is a human concept, because it means that some effort was made. A perfect being makes no effort, so, as the result, he cannot humanly achieve, just do things.

>Right, but Angels do, yes?
yes

>Why weren't Angels limited to prevent them from turning Hell into a place of punishment?
Free will, as the tale of the bully I just said. Angels on the side of God prevent them of many endeavors on their own free will too.

>Okay.
okay

>I have also seen it and the human is turned into a horrifying mess of flesh as the train barrels through them.
yes it does

>It wouldn't be a challenge at all, but by not stopping it then you are allowing it to continue.
do you have any reason, as a god, to not let him go thru? You already give breaks to the train, why not allow him to stop when its needed?
You are omnipotent anyway.

>I've heard other opinions, but we'll go with yours for this conversation.
Fair nuff

>So why does he allow it?
Why he would not? he crated all things for them be.

>Can humans leave hell?
Yes they can.The eternal fire is an expression. Time is different in those places. Such the theory behind time bends over the space can point.
It is well know that a second on hell (or heaven) can last more than a lifetime.

>However, if I try to beat up the others there with me, the teacher will stop me.
Yeah but the teacher is not God, is just another human. Also if it stops you, it is not giving you the chance you need to change your habits.

CONT.

Listen, you do not know all. You do not have all power. You do not have all wisdom. You are limited to your tiny little planet in a vast universe, which in of itself is contained within the abode of a deity that sees all, knows all, has all wisdom, and is all powerful. You saying you know better than that higher being is silly.

>A perfect being makes no effort, so, as the result, he cannot humanly achieve, just do things.
So then God didn't achieve anything through creation, yes?
>Free will, as the tale of the bully I just said
Why were they simply not given the capacity to turn hell into a place of punishment, like how I was simply not given the capacity to turn off electromagnetism?
>do you have any reason, as a god, to not let him go thru?
There are many potential reasons. Perhaps the train is about to hit a human and turn them into a horrifying mess of flesh?
>Why he would not?
Should you prevent suffering if you are able to do so?
>Yes they can
This is a new one. So if I go to hell for not accepting Jesus in life, I can just accept him after death?
>is just another human
Right... and as such it is more difficult for the human to do it. It would be trivial for God to stop such things.
>it is not giving you the chance you need to change your habits
Should we not stop people from committing criminal behaviors?

CONT.

Also no matter what the teacher does, it is most probably you will not change unless you really want to. And the teacher is only able to assist you if you go up to it and ask for help, but truly ask for help.

Now as a mere opinion. Let's say this teacher is a God, you are behaving bad, makes like Thanos and wipe your ass from the earth, no more user. Is that what you want? or you want the chance to prove you can be better?
The omnipotent teacher lets you decide as an act of affection, you are it's creation after all, even tho you turned out wrong. He is heart broken that you continue to do your bullshit, but he knows, that there is also a end in this history that you can change for good, even tho is a very small chance, that is enough for him to believe you will do the right thing.

Also is time for lunch. Take care anons.

>Listen, you do not know all.
Of course I don't, but I can only judge things by what I do know. Here on Earth, when a dictator puts people into death camps simply for criticizing the regime, we say that is evil. I do not see why this would change when extended to God.
>You saying you know better than that higher being is silly.
I'm not saying that I 'know better', I'm saying that the higher being would be evil. It would be a supremely powerful, all knowing evil.

>I'm not saying that I 'know better', I'm saying that the higher being would be evil
You're not getting it. The being that knows all knows what's good or evil and just than you do.

Good and evil are subjective concepts, not objective truths. God could have a radically different basis for determining good and evil such that, in its eyes, it is good, but to me it would be evil.

>So then God didn't achieve anything through creation, yes?
For him? who knows. I am no one to answer. You should try to ask him directly.
As my mortal opinion, he achieved something fucking marvelous.

>Why were they simply not given the capacity to turn hell into a place of punishment, like how I was simply not given the capacity to turn off electromagnetism?
They have it. Demons do not want to use it. As you could jump on the train, you do not want, for the reasons you choose are valid.

>There are many potential reasons. Perhaps the train is about to hit a human and turn them into a horrifying mess of flesh?
As a omnipotent God, how does that affects you, besides being sad? You can create more if you want.

You are thinking as a mere human. Probably the reason why humans are THE creation.

You can just stop the train, but as a god it has no meaning. However, as a God, you can make the day of a person that suddenly can do the difference that day and you manage to put it in the right place in the right moment. Now is up to him of this person does the right thing, and lets say, changes the train lines and prevents the disaster. Or sacrifice itself, now that is something other humans can value.
A human cannot value miracles, it has been pretty clear in the past that things beyond human comprehension are not welcome.

>Should you prevent suffering if you are able to do so?
As a human? yes.

>This is a new one. So if I go to hell for not accepting Jesus in life, I can just accept him after death?
Yes. If you really do.
If you are a good person, but do not believe in God, it is implied you will spent time in the purgatory, until you find the way back to heaven.

>Right... and as such it is more difficult for the human to do it. It would be trivial for God to stop such things.
Exactly it would be trivial

>Should we not stop people from committing criminal behaviors?
WE, as humans yes, we have been given all the resources to do so.

Now I really need to go.

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So what, then, would be the point of debating this with someone? If it's just subjectivity, then can you really logically criticize someone with a differing view on morality than you?

>he achieved something fucking marvelous.
You keep changing your answer.
>They have it.
Why?
>As a omnipotent God, how does that affects you, besides being sad?
So God is an amoral being unconcerned with the welfare of humans? That's fine if it's your opinion, but it's bizarre to turn around and then say that God wants you to change and grow, which implies that it does care in some way.
>as a god it has no meaning
Why does preventing suffering have no meaning?
>Now is up to him of this person does the right thing, and lets say, changes the train lines and prevents the disaster.
That assumes that any person has the capacity to stop the train in time, which they frequently do not.
>As a human? yes.
Why would the rules be different for a god?
>If you are a good person, but do not believe in God, it is implied you will spent time in the purgatory, until you find the way back to heaven.
I've heard other opinions on this, but okay.
>Exactly it would be trivial
Right... should the strong not protect the weak? If I can help people easily, should I not in order to get people who can do it with difficulty to do it instead?
>WE, as humans yes, we have been given all the resources to do so.
I submit that what is right for we humans would be right for God as well.
>Now I really need to go.
Take care.

The question is if you share the same or at least similar basis for determining good and evil as I do. Whether you judge God to be good or you judge God to be evil, you are making a moral judgement on God.
>really logically criticize someone with a differing view on morality than you?
You can't rationally debate them if they have a fundamentally different basis, but you can still criticize them using yours.

>Whether you judge God to be good or you judge God to be evil, you are making a moral judgement on God.
Yeah, but the difference between the two of us on that is I don't believe good and evil are subjective.
>You can't rationally debate them if they have a fundamentally different basis, but you can still criticize them using yours
Which still makes it look just as dumb as if you try to rationally debate this

>the difference between the two of us on that is I don't believe good and evil are subjective
Why? How could they possibly be objective?
>Which still makes it look just as dumb as if you try to rationally debate this
Your only options are to criticize, use force, or do nothing. In this case using force isn't an option, and doing nothing makes you complicit, so you're left with criticizing whether it makes you look dumb or not.

I just came here and saw a shitstorm.
Also, I think God doesn't give a shit whether you believe or not. As long as you are decent he is okay with you. I don't see a point in arguing as long as it is not harmful. It's like you care someone wears sandals instead of slippers.

>How could they possibly be objective?
How does the human spirit have a sense of justice if there's no objective good or evil? Why do humans crave justice and to know what good and evil is if there's no such thing? Why does every single people group agree that murder, regardless of definition, regard it as wrong?
>Your only options are to criticize, use force, or do nothing.
Sounds like a strawman. Care to clarify?
In this case using force isn't an option, and doing nothing makes you complicit, so you're left with criticizing whether it makes you look dumb or not.

let's be honest here, all theoretical physics and studies of matter have proven there to be a god for any matter to exist without being removed from existence, meaning that it can be made just like that for no reason and jesus christ is actually an alien from the saiyan race

>How does the human spirit have a sense of justice if there's no objective good or evil?
Evolutionary trait in social animals. Even if that wasn't the case, how would having a "sense of justice" make it objective rather than subjective? If every human has a sense of taste, does that mean tastes are objective?
>Why do humans crave justice and to know what good and evil is if there's no such thing?
I never said there's no such thing, I said it was subjective.
>Why does every single people group agree that murder, regardless of definition, regard it as wrong?
Evolution of a social animal, but this isn't even true. There have been groups of people throughout history that viewed murder as perfectly fine or even good, unless you want to define murder as wrongful killing in which case it's wrong by definition, but that's just semantics.
>Care to clarify?
I dunno what you want. You necessarily can either do nothing or do something. The relevant somethings you can do are to criticize or use force. You could stand on your head and eat a sandwich, but that wouldn't be relevant. If I'm missing a relevant option, feel free to point it out.

>Evolutionary trait in social animals. Even if that wasn't the case, how would having a "sense of justice" make it objective rather than subjective?
Because why would people have an instinct to establish things as morally wrong if morality doesn't exist?
>If every human has a sense of taste, does that mean tastes are objective?
There are ways of objectively measuring taste actually. Got to go, so I can't get into it.
>I never said there's no such thing, I said it was subjective.
That's kind of saying it doesn't exist.
>There have been groups of people throughout history that viewed murder as perfectly fine or even good.
I mean they're fringe at best.
>I dunno what you want
Actually, I think I misread option as opinion, meaning I took you saying that my opinions are just criticizing, using force, or nothing. I apologize about that.

>Because why would people have an instinct to establish things as morally wrong if morality doesn't exist?
Again, I'm not saying morality doesn't exist, I'm saying that it's subjective. In this case, it aids our collective survival, but that basis is itself subjective.
>There are ways of objectively measuring taste actually.
I don't see how. You can build objectively on top of a subjective basis, but it's still fundamentally subjective. If you like vanilla ice cream and I like chocolate ice cream, neither of us is objectively right or wrong about which is better.
>That's kind of saying it doesn't exist.
Not really. Critic and audience ratings of movies are subjective, but they certainly exist.
>I mean they're fringe at best.
Sadly, not really. It tends to happen when people become classified as "the other". Slaves, foreigners, minorities, and such.
>I apologize about that.
No worries, it happens.

hey while we're doing religion, i heard this idea for how heaven and hell could work that's just splendid.

So, it's difficult to think about why it could be your fault/merit heaven or hell would work, but heres a situation.

you're at infinitely stretched dining table, with people to either side of you. The most delicious food is layed out in front of you. But the catch is, your fork is 5 feet long, so you cannot eat anything. You try and try, but fail. The tantalizing food cannot be had in any other way than with the utensils. This is tantalizing and terrible. A fine depiction of hell. Now imagine all the same scenarios, but everyone around you is a good, selfless person. You feed eachother!

If God is so good, why did he make us? He really wanted to be worshiped so badly that it was worth all the suffering?

People didn't exist and he knew we would be terrible and made us anyways. That isn't love. it's greed. He put his own selfish desire of wanting to be worshiped over the future pain of people. He knew we would be beaten, raped, murdered, depressed and anxious and made us anyways

What I think he meant is that you think you are at the same level of a God itself, which is obviously not the case. Let me specify that a God is far above you in any kind of way, just in case you think he is beneath you.

I'll grab that woman's feet and have her give me a footjob

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