Crime is the worst thing imaginable and we need people to respect it more than ever...

crime is the worst thing imaginable and we need people to respect it more than ever. All crimes should be punished with death. Honestly it’s the only way to help society. No more criminals, no more prisons, and everyone would be much safer. There are literally no downsides. Obey the law or die

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This was actually a discussion in my criminal law course first semester.

The downside to this approach is that there's no threshold. In our current society, criminals are much more likely to stop at just robbing a convenience store, because the penalty is far less severe than if they killed the cashier as well.

If we make all crimes punishable by death, there's no reason for this guy to not kill the cashier - if he gets caught, he's dead anyway, and this is one less witness.

By having differing degrees of punishment, we can actually decrease the severity of crime.

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just make gun murder insta death sentence

Good point. There's also the concept of unjust laws. It can be a crime to protest an injustice and by enacting harsh punishments, you're actually discouraging real change and societal reform

But if all crime is punishable with death they wouldn’t even rob the store in the first place

No, I don't think that's true. There will always be someone out there that wants to take that chance. And as the first reply says, if there's no gradation of punishment, they'll likely go wild on a huge crime spree then maybe flee to a non-extradition country. So you'd encourage ultra-violent, large scale crime and I can see something like cartels thriving in that environment.

Additionally, this policy would be enormously expensive. The cost of capital punishment is huge because of all the checks and balances as well as the trials, all funded by the taxpayer. I can see court costs skyrocketing.

Thats not how human behaviour works

No checks and balances. We just put more funding into police departments and increase their training. We make it so the police have the authority to put the criminals down when they see fit

We overhaul the justice system

Still not good. Crimes that are prosecuted just on the street are relatively small portions. White collar stuff would be ignored?

Also, if there's no trials, that also undermines the entire system because no one would want to convict a little old lady that accidentally jaywalked, so minor crimes would never be prosecuted.

As you introduce more of these conditions to cover these cases, your solution gets worse and worse, not better. Now, you're not just saying one punishment, you're saying more training, overhaul of the courts, remove due process, it's a scrapping of the entire system.

Different divisions for different crimes

Still, so many issues with all of this. The police would basically turn into corrupt terror squads.

The idea is going down the rabbit hole and needs to cover a wide variety of grey area cases. A consistent overall plan is needed.

No because there would be a division specifically for other officers. Taking down the corrupted ones. Each division has a division head who is voted in by that division and all the are on a council led by the chief who is appointed by seniority, merit, recommendation by previous chief

>*jaywalks*
>everyone: go die

The whole thing just sounds poorly thought out and it seems like it's trying to solve the wrong problem.

>Crime punishable by torture
#bringbackthedungeons
ftfy

The problem is crime and needs to be stopped

It would stop people from jaywalking wouldn’t it

No, at a deeper level, it's about justice. It needs to deal with things at a deeper level, like disputes that are unclear about who's at fault and how much they are.

The whole thing is just funky, I keep thinking of many cases where things can fall through the cracks. I suspect that as I ask more questions and you give more off-the-cuff exceptions and caveats, we'll end up deciding upon a system that will look basically the same as what we already have.

No in my system the law is respected

Oops my wife falsely accused me of rape
Oops i forgot the red light
Oops my 3 year old steals some candy
Better die then niggers

The law is not the same as justice.

>once your wife Is found lying she would be put to death
>going through a red light is dangerous and could potentially kill someone. You should be driving responsibly and not be a risk to others
>sad but maybe parents should explain to their children what’s right and what’s wrong. The simple fact people don’t tell their children what the law is shows a complete disrespect for it and that’s what needs to change. No one is above the law

Yes it is. Laws are laws for a reason. Why is it some need to follow it and others don’t? How is that justice?

Laws can be unjust. Justice is at a much higher level. Honestly, you need to do a lot more thinking about this.

I’ve already done a lot of thinking about this. The Laws are in place for a reason. Everyone needs to follow the law. No one is above the law. You still haven’t answered why is it some people need to follow it and others don’t. Until the law is changed you must obey it. It’s not justice for some to just decide “you know what I don’t need to follow this one” that shit is wrong and it needs to stop

, Author of here. What you guys mentioned are also very valid points that were brought up during the discussion in my Criminal Law class.

- Exactly. It becomes like the Judges in the Dredd movies/comics - they're judges, juries, and executioners, and that kind of power can very quickly go to people's heads, like in the Stanford prison experiment, where the subjects assigned as 'guards' became more and more aggressive and brutal as the experiment went on, soley because they had it within their power to do so. The experiment had to be called off because the 'guards' were getting too violent.

>implying criminals follow laws to begin with

That’s why they need to die

been reading vonnegut user?

There's also problem with execution of penalties. To really sentence someone to death it takes 10+ years, so you are really 100% sure he's guilty, and mistakes still do happen.
Many people do crime not by choice. It's the political and ecconomical system that forces people for doing crime. In countries where everyone has an opportunity for DECENT life, crime rate is much much lower.

Author of again.

You also have to consider circumstances and intent.

Take these two examples:

1. A single father is between jobs, snd in order to feed his child, he shoplifts a loaf of bread. He doesn't mean to hurt anyone, all he wants is to ensure that his kid is fed.

2. A rich, spoiled kid (18+, I'm using "kid" loosely here) steals a case of beer from a convenience store for the thrill. He can easily acquire beer from other means and has no need of it.

Do you punish both crimes equally? Most judges, at least in the US, would say no. They would let the father off with a warning or some kind of probation at most.

What if father is black and spoiled kid is white?

Exactly. There's also the sheer volume of laws to contend with. On any given day, most citizens may break some obscure law without even knowing.

I think OP is blinded by trying to create a perfect and literal system, ignoring the reality and how things can fall apart. It's useless to argue how things "should" be. If you're going to wish into existence a perfect system, why not just wish that everyone be good and benevolent instead?

This entire discussion is a bit of a mess.

So judge dredd style? I think not.

Let’s say your sixteen and you had sex with your 15 year old girlfriend you get arrested for statutory rape and your gonna die cause you fucked your 15 year old consensual girlfriend, does that sound right to you?
Maybe instead of killing everyone who commits a crime we can focus on the repeat offenders and one who are gonna be in 25-life that would certainly bring down crime.

- Race *should* be irrelevant in the eyes of the law, though sadly, people are often unconsciously influenced by their racial biases.

We're all only human, after all.

- Generally, if you're both under eighteen, most states have a four-year gap that prevents it from being statutory rape. i.e., a sixteen year old and a fifteen year old is not rape. Once you hit eighteen, even if she's seventeen, it's still statutory rape - I'll have to check the actual statutes though, that's when I was that age, and laws change all the time.

Reminder to kill all fascists