Why can’t theists prove the existence of god?

Like I said "starting" point for fools I don't see it refuted

humans have empathy. We feel bad when we hurt others. This is neuroscience not god. And we STILL hurt each other. The world is NOT moral, fuck just look at it. Your god created THIS?

hard to refute the unprovable

>Doesn't know what a proof is.
>Doesn't know where proofs originated.

I'll give U the "demonstrable evidence" part since that is close enough to 'empirical'. There are a great deal of people who believe there is demonstrable evidence...the discussion invariably devolves into shit about what constitutes evidence.

This is a very basic form of what is called "The problem of Evil". There are good responses.

look it up

ITT people asking for proof then denying provided proof.

If there is a God, he's a piece of shit.

Religious people know, deep down, subconsciously, that religion is bullshit. They convert for marriage. They go against the teachings of their own religions. The priests are fucking little boys. Religious people are totally inconsistent with their religious bullshit because it's like child's makebelieve to them, it's a fantasy they believe in by an act of will. It's self-delusion.

>look it up

No.

There is no problem of evil. It's all right there in the fucking brain. Is your grasp of the human condition that fucking shallow? Humans are scared, self-centered animals, and empathy provides a counterbalancing force that lets us live in harmonious social groups.

>There are a great deal of people who believe there is demonstrable evidence
yes billions of delusional cucks the world over. please enlighten me to this demonstrable evidence.

proof lol

This is a logical fallacy,

(Tu quoque and ad hominem) just because people are hypocritical doesn't support nor refute their beliefs(a.k.a. the proposition that there is a God)

Good job brainlet

I have often thought that. God, in most religions is all powerful and the creator of all things, therefore ultimately responsible for all the shit that goes down. On the other hand he gave shit dealers free choice. Again Gods choice therefore God is responsible.

Billions of people believe many different religions. Each person believes their religion is correct. Necessarily, most of them must believe in a false religion, because these religions contradict each other.

This means people cannot discern true religion from false religion. If you disagree, prove another religion false and then explain why that proof does not apply to your own religion.

it doesn't claim to refute their beliefs.

>It's all right there in the fucking brain.
But I thought you just said there is no problem of evil?

How can it be and not be at the same time? "Is your grasp of [logic]...that fucking shallow?"

What do you consider evidence, and what religious perspective should I approach it from?

People call it the "problem" of evil because they need a religious answer. Why does their religion allow evil to exist? Neuroscience has no problem explaining evil.

Which God? Thousands to choose from

youtube.com/watch?v=RZGGyE9YU9A

Same reason why atheists can’t prove he doesn’t exist.
It’s unprovable either way, so why does it matter?

>religion is bullshit
> their religious bullshit
>child's make believe to them
>it's a fantasy
>It's self-delusion.

Your right, it doesn't directly claim to refute, but it does propose that 'religion is bullshit' and provides statements that act as reasons for it.

The statement still attempts to discredit an opposing argument by showing hypocrisy, and name calling. Still a fallacy.

I don't believe in God, but as I understand it part of the Christian idea is that proving God exists ignores the point - that you can only reach true salvation by having faith.

So for a win win solution look up Pascal's wager

Better question:

Why do you care?

because there is no evidence.
any evidence you could attribute to a god could work for any other god, but of course the religious people automatically attribute it to their chosen god because of confirmation bias.

Compare that to the teachings of previous religions where they would point at things for which they had no other explanation, such as volcanoes or the fact we're alive and conscious, and conclude that the only reasonable explanation was that it was all put there by some sort of creator. The scientific mehod we now take for granted simply didn't exist until incredibly recently. It's pretty much impossible to understate the effect of the develoment of scientific method because until its invention the majority of the population was uneducated and simply believed what they were told because if they didn't they'd burn forever or have their tiny world smashed to pieces by an immense being they truly knew was up in the clouds or down in the depths of the seas. Quantifying the world as we have done has taken the wind out of a huge amount of our imaginative stories' sails. Now all we have left to explore is space, desperately hoping there will be magic and new life out there somewhere out there, because we haven't yet quantified it all.

>What do you consider evidence
anything that isn’t pure fairytale to start
>what religious perspective should I approach it from?
the one where man created god, not the other way around

That depends on religion.

Please demonstrate how Neuroscience can empirically prove the existence for good, evil, or any other value system that may exist.

As far as I am aware value systems are inherently subjective and thus outside the realm of science. (Though I imagine that science would be effective figuring out how to achieve a particular cause and effect relationship for some value system)

Science deals with measurable phenomenon, don't conflate that with other things.

Speaking as a Psychologist, yes it definitely does - there's no definition for evil

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It attacks faith, it attacks the faithful. It does not make any statement about the existence or non-existence of god.

To disprove god outright is not possible. It is only possible to gather evidence suggesting god's non-interaction with the universe. It is possible to argue that the universe reached its present physical configuration (or could have reached it) without intervention.

good and evil are constructs, so what? Replace it with "human behavior."

...

What do you mean so what? You said there was no problem with explaining evil and I'm telling you we don't have a clue what evil even is - let alone how to explain people's reasons for behaving in an evil way.

The closest we have to understanding evil is varying levels of empathy for others causing people to behave selfishly, with no moral objections to the manipulation of others. That, mixed with sadism, is basically all we have (i.e. varying types and levels of psychopathy).

not a win win. Different religions have different criteria for reaching their various win states. You still have to pick one and condemn yourself to hell in the others. Just don't pick one. Be a fucking agnostic and treat people right because you're not a psychopath and you already feel a sense of empathy.

Hmm looks like you really aren't interested in proving it one way or other.

Good day kind unintellectual sir.

Trace this chain of comments back a little, will you?

It started with someone saying, "people are good, therefore god exists." I said, "people are good because they experience empathy." user replied, "that's the problem of evil, look it up."

For that matter, when you say we "don't have a clue" how to explain people's reasons for behaving in an evil way, that is utter bullshit. You may be a psychologist but that's not a rigorous profession, I've met great psychologists and I've met psychologists who've never picked up a scientific journal and couldn't point out the motor cortex.

An argument isn't proof, it's only an argument

all he does is say that we should assume the existence of God. not much in the way of proof there.

Just another dilemma re. good for empathy.
Is it good because God says it is good?
Euthyphro then revises his definition, so that piety is only that which is loved by all of the gods unanimously (9e). At this point the dilemma surfaces. Socrates asks whether the gods love the pious because it is the pious, or whether the pious is pious only because it is loved by the gods

nothing to contribute
insults and run
great job user!

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see case studies in which people with brain tumors begin to behave in a radically different way. Molesting children, alienating friends, etc. I'm not going to go dig up the link for a Yea Forums thread but there's a case in which a schoolteacher developed a brain tumor that made him a monster, he got help and told someone he was afraid he'd rape his landlord, they found the tumor, he went back to normal... the tumor came back, he started acting like a monster again.

No one? No response?

Why do aethists constantly ask for proof and or explanations of God in a religion specifically designed around the belief in not knowing anything?

Its almost like the nonfaith is an excuse to argue with everyone while claiming you arent purposely just being a no personality dick

A statement isnt the absence of proof

>It is only possible to gather evidence suggesting god's non-interaction with the universe.

That is contrary to people who believe/ say they have experienced things such as miracles. (Groups, and individuals)

Those experiences may not be convincing to others (lies, the devil, psycho problems, social psy, etc...) But it may be possible to collect evidence of god/gods interacting with the universe.

I think limiting the possibilities to only ones that you accept may exclude the truth. (Unless of course you are right)

it's too scary to seriously entertain the thought that you might be wrong. religious people set out to convert, not to understand.

atheists do this because religious people make decisions based on their faiths, and those decisions affect the public. Politicians are religious. Police are religious. Suicide bombers are religious. Etc. The existence of religion has consequences. Religious people are still raping and killing, there is no great benefit to outweigh those consequences.

there has never, ever been a confirmed supernatural event. When one occurs, the rationalists of the world will update their worldviews.

God exists, I know it and YOU know it. Stop trying to be edgy, everyone on here belives in God, even the faggot below me.

>a religion specifically designed around the belief in not knowing anything
which one is that? also jfc that last sentence. it's almost like all your interactions with atheists happened on Yea Forums, where being a no personality dick is something of a game

>aethiests have to question everything based on their dedication to questioning nothing because they know that their closemindedness is superior, based on the knowledge they received by questioning nothing

Or theyre just dicks. Im gonna have to go with number two

>Why do aethists constantly ask for proof and or explanations of God in a religion specifically designed around the belief in not knowing anything?
ignorance truly is bliss
>Its almost like the nonfaith is an excuse to argue with everyone while claiming you arent purposely just being a no personality dick
allah made me do it i SWEAR TO GOD

I don't believe in god.

>there has never been confirmed magic, we consulted our magic meters, technology created to measure something that has never been encountered before, and they read zero.

Ahurrr

>its almost like all argumentative dicks only exist online

BAZINGA!

Surwe ;)

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I bet I've helped more people than you

At the start of this thread, the religious guys were going to use logic. We've reached the point where they do this instead:

Prove it

I have no problem with religion, as long as you 1) admit that you don't know for sure, and 2) don't impose your religion on others.

That's a surprisingly high bar.

>we cant argue at all so lets fall back on pointing and laughing to ourselves

Maybe i'm deist and believe that there isn't supernatural events, but God acts according to set physical laws.

>i have no problem as long as everyone admits theyre wrong and im right
Ha

the one who createt everything there is, is god.

I've debated religion with friends irl before. you can do it without being a dick. it takes patience that most people afford only if they're invested in the other person. everyone becomes an argumentative dick online, just look at yourself.

>don't know for sure
>know for sure that they're wrong and I'm right
>same thing

this argument is fucking retarded and is usually started by faggots

>ive debated a persons intangible core values before, its what friends who have unique lives and hobbies do

Fun fun

I work in Alzheimers research, studying how chronic bacterial inflammation leads to plaque formation in the central nervous system. I also donate bone marrow regularly.

they loved it so your judgement is irrelevant and you should probably stop coming to these threads if you're not having fun.

english motherfucker DO YOU SPEAK IT?

Because it's useless information

Youre right. We will just wait for all the people that love it to show up.

I don't know what you're saying, so it's probably not what I was saying...

still no response

People love debating religion, just wait theyll show up

Do psychedelics m8 happy times with my fellow friend god in this bitch, also the knowledge you got when you arrive again in this lucid reality came straight from God's house, it's funny, cuz' gods house is deep down ourselves

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You masochistic or something?

Anytime now. I can feel it.

It's been sitting there since the start of the thread, and I posted this 40 minutes later to no avail

I guess so many people love debating religion that they cant decide who should go first

Because it's made up character that doesn't exist in reality, created by bronze aged, misogynistic, homophobic apes. That didn't know where the sun went at night.

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trippy brah

He probably just hides to cause some shit so he can watch from a distance and enjoy

Never said all people like it, just that my friends did. Is your reading comprehension that bad or are you doing it on purpose? In any case, I can see why you feel everyone is a dick. It's like you're begging for someone to go off on you. I won't give you the satisfaction tho. Cya nerd, don't @ me.

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oh, ha, I see what you're doing. You're saying that because no one has responded to my comment, surely user's friends didn't enjoy debating religion with him. Can't say I've met them, so I can neither confirm nor deny.

You wanna prove that?

>I have friends and many leather bound books

Kek

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Well i know if I left the thread would be flooded with more anons to talk to. You make a good point, theres really no response other than to mock or insult you

are you retarded?

I'm an Atheist. I reject god claim, because it has not demonstrated its burden of proof. As long as somethings existence isn't verified I assume that it doesn't exist.

The fact that he was made up is well documented, the question of his existence is still open tho.

>something all retards are physically incapable of saying

Not

Not like there could be some kind of evolutionary advantage to cooperation and not being a dick, that exists alongside being sneaky and sly and deceptive...

Two strategies that work quite well.. but mainly, humans, and the way our body's ans brains are built, would not have survived without everyone behaving morally. It's a compulsion.

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>I believe I dont know. But I know for sure because of my belief in not knowing

COME JOIN THE BEST Yea Forums DISCORD THR WORLD HAS EVER FUCKING SEEN RIGHT NOW!!

discord
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197

Gods nonexistence isnt verified. Aethism is synonomous with whiny fencesitting.

Not to mention if you give octopi, an animal that evolved exclusively to be independent, MDMA, they start behaving like social pack animals because seratonin drives that instinct...

I wonder if what really happened was god saw us give them MDMA ans thought "oh shit!!" And hopped off his throne and gave them empathy and social bonding to make sure kants thing held together..

I'll quote someone else in this thread >To disprove god outright is not possible. It is only possible to gather evidence suggesting god's non-interaction with the universe. It is possible to argue that the universe reached its present physical configuration (or could have reached it) without intervention.

Modern physics has a lot of explanatory power. We're nowhere close to figuring everything out, but we're making good progress. There are some papers coming out now arguing that quantum entanglement is responsible for the curvature of spacetime (gravity in fancy language), and that would be pretty exciting.

You could decide that god or gods are responsible for all the remaining mysteries in physics, but you should be careful, because those might not remain mysteries forever. I think skeptical agnosticism is the safest bet for now.

>equivocating "assume" with "know for sure"

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...

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Objective moral truth equating to the existence of God is an illusion, created by man because he fears the uncertainty of death.

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for something to be truly true, it can't be debated and has to be eternal. truth is consciousness awareness. nobody can make an objective claim that reality exists outside of consciousness.

>you should only believe in the sports team that wins

What a fun and non bland world you live in

>truly true
You just created a paradox. Get the hell out with this black magic.

>truth can't be debated
The problem is that we're trying to figure out what's true. Once we know for sure that a thing true, then by definition the thing can't be debated. Fucking hell user, brain more.

Feel free to go back to living in trees and eating bugs.

>still thinking there is value in debating the existence of god
Yea Forumsros it doesn't matter if a god exists or not, living a life where you can improve and grow is still the best thing one can do. Despite this,we fear the uncertainty, but maybe a part of growing is embracing the unknown, and continuing on in spite of it.
Most won't find value in this comment among many, but I'm certain a few of you are like me, if so then take it from here to stop looking at arguments over saccharin things and reach for the potential you know lies dormant in you.

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nobody knows what is for sure except for their subjective experience and the i am-ness that comes with it AKA consciousness awareness...and calm down

if you understand that what you believe might not be true, then go ahead and LARP to your heart's content. Just don't force the LARP onto others.

I see the mathmatical similarities in nature and choose to believe it was designed elegantly in the belief that it could be deciphered by any person who chose to pay attention to it.

This math can be used to find edible plants, decipher gravity, mark the seasons and passage of time along with distance, movement of heavenly bodies and human behavior.

Or if youre an idiot, haha its all a coincidence.

>people cant believe in things I dont

Fine, stop having parades and forcing people to bake your cake.

>inb4 no

What's the usefulness of that definition of truth? Maybe you're a brain in a vat, we might all be simulated (we are, you're the only one, wake up) but

>people can't believe in things I don't
>go ahead and LARP to your heart's content

lmao

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>everything I disagree with is a larp
>im not saying its fake or wrong, just that its make believe
>I actually believe this is openmindedness

Present a specific version, I'll tell you why it fails.

you like math that describes nature? How about the principle of least action? How about the conservation of momentum?

for me, it is total freedom. when reading philosophy, it's fun to hold and entertain concepts/beliefs. but knowing absolute truth makes me happier

How about them

>believing im right makes me happy

Aethism

>there are good responses
No, there are not, especially when the "problem of evil" is reformulated as the "problem of suffering"

Because we have no means to investigate supernatural claims.

Prove it

>I know anything you say is gonna be wrong

Aethism

i don't believe i'm pure consciousness, i KNOW that is what i am. everything else but my perception of my awareness is pure speculation. this isn't a belief system or doctrine

Thank you.

It's almost like every theistic argument has been made over and over again for hundreds if not thousands of years with minor variation.

I'm an agnostic. There might be a god, we can't totally rule it out, so I put that in the "don't know" category.

You can believe in god, just don't say you know there's a god. You don't.

So if thats what you know and it makes you happy, I bet you love people telling you that youre wrong.

>You can believe in god, just don't say you know there's a god. You don't.
you can believe in god, or not believe in god. just don't say you know there is or isn't a god because that's pretty fuckin pointless xD. oh wait we call that agnostic or something

Knowledge is a subset of belief.

What do you think belief is bourne of numbskull?

yes and no

Let me know who wins

depends on your definition of a claim. boolean functions in programming can definitely be true or false independently of consciousness and can be interpreted as claims in some sense. most of your software operates without your supervision and is itself unconscious (for now). obviously the objects in the real world are truer than our descriptions of them, but they're also inaccessible so we'll have to satisfy ourselves with just talking.

Or it's just plain physics... Nature takes on these mathematical forms because he just works or is somehow inevitable.

Dude this is not unlike being baffled by why and how ancient civilisations built pyramids and assuming aliens did it.

They did it because it is an extremely strong and architecturally sound formation that's extremely easy to build and doesn't require very advanced techniques. And it's just plain physics, triangles are strong because of the way they distribute weight.

This "math in nature" is just variations (sometimes more complex) of this principal. Some things work so well with the laws of the universe nature just inevitably finds it by trial and error.

dividing by infinity results in 0
that is pretty useful

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>or its another word with a different definition that we call explained
>because it just happened because, obviously

Dude wow deep fam.

If something is supernatural it is not part of reality. Why would you believe something you cannot confirm.

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truth in maths just is. it doesn't need a designer. why would physics need a designer? it could just inevitably follow from maths.

Personally, I don't, but others do for various reasons like cultural indoctrination and fear of the unknown.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.

Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate

>math just happened because maths
>also, physics

Man im just getting schooled here

explain what the fuck that means

Christian can't prove God exist either. If God existed then why is Yea Forums still a working pedo site?

Name a force that creates life and causes death.
A force that is responsible for all creation, and all destruction.
A force that you cannot interact with, nor put a stop to.
A force that controls every single aspect of your being, your entire life, and the entire lives of everyone around you.
A force that keeps everything that ever was, is, and will be in balance.
It controls human will, nature, animal instincts, and even the placement of inanimate objects.

God is time.

Physics describes a universe that evolves according to cause and effect. In newtonian physics, a particle does not change its velocity unless another particle hits it, or the two particles experience a mutual force between them. Gravitation, electrostatic attraction or repulsion, etc. When you say there's a designer, you are requiring that somewhere in space and time a particle was accelerated without physical cause, or matter was created, or energy was created, or some other physical event occurred without physical cause.

Unless you mean the big bang, you'll need to either back up what you're saying or admit that you just fancy the idea. So far, cause and effect have been sufficient to explain just about everything any human being has ever observed. Where we're unsure, we have plausible hypotheses. For gravitation, we have multiple theoretical frameworks that physicists are investigating, including spacetime curvature emerging from bulk quantum entanglement. For abiogenesis, we have various biochemical hypotheses, like RNA world.

You have, as far as I can tell, some vague aesthetic sense that, because the universe is beautiful and elegant, it must be a thinking being's creation. That's not math, that's not rigorous in any way. Don't act like it is. Be humble, speculate that maybe a thinking being MIGHT have created the universe, or some aspects of it. Don't say you know, because you don't.

Because the opposite exists and people have free will. Not everyone in the world comes here

A better question would be. Is the universe intelligent or a dumb mechanical machine?

nah you're not even trying to entertain what's being said. -50 GBP

>Philosophical opinion from a guy people largely consider intelligent
>That means God's real.

Here I have a quiz for you. The quiz itself is important but the other question I want you to answer is "why did he send me this?":

pewresearch.org/quiz/news-statements-quiz/

its your opinion that its a philosophical opinion. i don't think i said ever said anything about god being "real" but, you are allowed to assume WHATEVER you want.

>Theoretical
Uh oh, you said the T word anti science people don't understand the meaning of.

Let's see what happens.

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gods real relligon is fake . something cant come out nothing. hes mayby not the god we invision but hes real.

Wow. You must be a blast at parties.

I see. I choose to believe. I dont have to be anymore humble than the cock making this thread. If you can surgically remove your dick I can certainly act like the world was designed and is beautiful.

What a hell some of you already live in.

>It's your opinion it's an opinion
LMFAO

Dude that is actually literally the dumbest thing I've heard on Yea Forums in like 8 years and Incel wasn't even a word then

It's a fucking opinion dude. There is a VERY CLEAR difference between fact and opinion. It's like impossible to fuck it up. And you just did.

>some undefined entity exists
you sure said a lot there fren.

>gods real
Prove it.
>something cant come out nothing
First of all, prove it.
Second of all, how is this relevant?

People like me and him go to our own parties so we don't have to deal with people like you. I can assure you they're very fun.

the force of love

woah this guy has been on Yea Forums for 8 years. lets get a round of applause guys because he requires IMMEDIATE respect. also, explain how that quote is an opinion

gravity

your here typin dumb shit thats all the proof there is a creator we are what a bacterie is 2 a human even less

Im sure you find ways not to deal with all kinds of things while mocking people who do

Everyone defines strength differently

How do you figure there sport?

Well 12 actually.
I'm just saying it has been a long time since I saw something that dumb. And this is where I see most of the dumbest shit.

Do the quiz moron. I bet you score zero.

It's an opinion because he isn't starting any kind of measurable tangible or observable fact. It is merely an interpretation or observation he *feels* to be true. That is an opinion. It is an extremely easy distinction to make. I can't even believe I'm defining it for someone.

I'm fine with the "god is nature" crowd. It's still kinda weird, cos they use the word differently from most other religious people I know, but I can live with it. Doesn't contradict my scientific naturalism.

Very simple. For the exact same reason scientists can't prove God doesn't exist. Everyone has their opinion, but no one has proof either way.

>something cant come out nothing
Prove that nothing existed.

it is a fact that we do not know why we are conscious beings, so how can we solve any problems with certainty if we can't even solve where questions and problems come from? (consciousness) ??? u ok?

magnets oppose

Electromagnetism, strong interaction, weak interaction, and gravity should account for all of that.

hahah, gotem xDDDDDDD *tips fedora*

Sage

God is Dao. Dao can't be known or named

Why can’t atheist prove he doesn’t exist?

>butthurt fundamentalist
feels bad when op calls you out, doesn't it?

First of all, that's not what it means. It means that if you, say, make a mistake, you can't solve it by thinking the same way as you thought before, you have to expand your thinking outwards and take a fresh approach. That's what it meant. That's what he meant.

And even if you were right, it's still an opinion because he isn't stating a fact. Pretending you're right about the meaning it is not a fact we can't solve consciousness because we are conscious, it's an opinion, because we don't know we can't. We might one day. We know tonnes of shit now that Einstein had no idea about in his day, things he himself could never have imagined.

But that isn't what it means, and by my (actual) meaning, it's even still an opinion, because who knows if some asshole somewhere solves all his problems by somehow makes the same mistakes over and over. It's subjective, hypothetical statement.

>We do not.know why we are conscious

Also yes we do. We know exactly why. We know concsiouness is born of highly complex algorithms in the brain. It's how it produces consciousness we are hung up on. The why is easy and obvious. The how, not so much. And even so the answer doesn't have to be God, it could simply be because.

you just named it Dao

>having an IQ of 10 and thinking you know anything

Can you prove I don't have a magical dragon in my garage?

...

Yes, by physically entering your garage. If you claim to have a dragon that exists in another dimension, that's would be impossible to prove or disprove.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

The moral argument for God, would only make any type of sense, if morality wasn't a thing that would be selected for in evolution.

The whole premise of this question is faulty. Most don't seek to prove his existence. The whole point of religion is faith, not proof. To atheists like myself, a lot of us kinda refuse to accept that because it's not how we think. I don't agree with them; and if I'm feeling like a complete dick, and they deserve it, I'll make them feel stupid. But typically, i just let them believe what they want so long as they keep it to themselves within reason. Also, I'm not talking about extremists. I'm talking everyday believers. Extremists are a completely separate issue.

can you prove that consciousness is inside/generated in the brain? you believe that because scientists believe it?a tree isn't a tree. it is the perception arising through consciousness. so we never truly know what the tree is in it of itself. so we are forced to apply words and ideas to the "tree". sciences explain HOW things work, not WHY. work that noggin a bit harder

The magical dragon can make itself invisible to all senses, because magic.

>aethism is the superior knowledge

You wont ever get them to admit how jaded they are but this is why theyre ridiculed

>Kant argued that the goal of humanity is to achieve perfect happiness and virtue (the summum bonum) and believed that an afterlife must exist in order for this to be possible, and that God must exist to provide this
prove afterlife and god

durrp durrp?

doesnt prove god, but also bad reasoning

>here are good responses
nope
but name 1

Not him, but it's kind of hard to find something that's not really defined. If you can come with a crisp definition of "consciousness", and how to tell the difference between a person with it, and one acting only on non-conscious brain impulses, THEN we can go looking for it.

Right now, you're blaming science for not having found something undefined, which is kind of not fair.

Existence isn't the same as being real.
Something exists because someone thinks about it
If no one remembers you, you probably aren't real
If no one knows that something is real (or exists), it doesn't exist, but can be real.

if an atheis is some1 not beleving in god, its not on him to prove the existence or lack of it

But it must physically occupy space. Even dark matter can be measured even though we can't see it. The argument you are making now is similar to when people didn't believe that air existed and that wind was an environmental element like rain and snow. People couldn't see air so they said it couldn't possibly exist. However after many years it was proven that it in fact did exist when it was able to be measured.

Self awareness.

The polar bear that covers his nose when he hunts because he knows its black

The fact that you can't see the dragon only proves it's magical ability to make itself invisible. ALL HAIL THE MIGHT GARAGE DRAGON!

>pascal wager
>20000 active religion
>all different depictions of rules to achieve salvation >trying to trick god by faking the belief is a win

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. It's not possible for the garage dragon to exist because SCIENCE!

Unless you prove bad things happen because I dont hail garage dragon then he doesnt exist

>Hmm looks like you really aren't interested in proving it one way or other.
funny how u ask a non-believer what would be an evidence and the not only shift the burden of proof, but also provide none yourself

Also physics

Oh I know that atheism is right. There are way too many logical flaws in the idea of religion that just don't add up. All I'm saying is that it's kinda comparing a measurement in inches to one in milliliters. It's not at all the same thing. It's not even measuring the same thing. Trying to compare faith and logic just doesn't work. They both seek to explain things; but they're completely different.

God trolls atheists so hard lmao

Dark matter isn't magic. The magical dragon is. Anything you think you should be able to measure can be explained away via magic.

Because they dont test what their texts say. Theists except whatever bullshit they are told and do not question, as if they did, they would be sent to the evil place that other theists tell them about. Theists are the ultimite NPC's, programmed for life.

oh, no. They ask for the EV|DENCE of whatever god U HAPPEN TO SPOUT ABOUT

Computers can also get this ability. Even fairly simply ones. Do they then have consciousness?

How about babies who do not yet have this ability? Do they lack consciousness?

We can go by this definition, but then the experience of "consciousness" can entirely be found and explained by science. Then the "mystery" of consciousness evaporates.

Because it's a matter of faith.
With the core assumption that God created everything, it would stand to reason that God created our ability to reason and therefore science. This same thought can be applied to the universal laws such as the laws of physics which are the constraints of the universe. Meaning if God wanted us to be able to prove his existence we would be able to. This means God wants us to take it on faith.
>inb4 big core assumption
>inb4 sheep

That's my opinion of it, I dont much care if you share it.

See, if this guy would just admit that garage dragon lives on a different plain of existance I could possibly believe in him, however user states that garage dragon occupies the exact same space and time that I do however garage dragon is undetectable. Science can prove otherwise.

But if garage dragon operated outside of our measurable physics, garage dragon could possibly exist.

>I know my belief in nothing is right because everyone else believes in nothing. I have proof because I dont believe in it.

Top notch

the dragon can change shape and size on demand. Its magic after all

>everyone is this one person I met once

I hope the government doesnt black bag you for your breakthrough there

The dragon has the ability to change the results of your measuring instruments. I think you're missing the point of this exercise. It's a point about falsifiability and the lack of believability any significant claim has, if it's not falsifiable.

there is no difference between someone with consciousness and one acting "only on" non-conscious brain impulses because its BOTH. we don't need a definition for consciousness because we are all experiencing individually RIGHT NOW. the fuck do you mean acting only on non-conscious brain impulses. so i'm not consciously deciding telling you that you're an idiot? it's non conscious brain impulses?

I think you're missing the point. Even if existing science doesn't work, science will eventually prevail.

If my post had been 666 it would have made my point even more awesome. I blame garage dragon, that faggot.

we can see similarities and motives from other religions. We see chow the raracter of god changed from father walking in gardens to invisible, spaceless, timeless being that just so happens to agree with everything the individual does. We have the history of book written, removed, failed prophecies, non-prophecies and 0 evidence of god

m.youtube.com/watch?v=BNANWs2KLj4

Because we don’t even know what is outside the edge of our known universe.

>I see
>I see
>I

Hey that sounds like a belief

>for something to be truly true, it can't be debated and has to be eternal.
einsteins dead. The truth about him being alive in a given moment isnt eternal

Friction is true until it isn't

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>choose to believe
belief isnt a choice. Choose to believe sth else.
>it was designed
no
>This math can be used to find edible plants...
nope

we r w8ing for your evidence of god, boy

Yes

My point is that what we experience as consciousness is an emerging property of our brains. There is nothing inherently unexplained of mysterious about it. It's not some "extra" thing added to the brain.

So you MIGHT be consciously telling me I'm an idiot. But I'm not sure as I don't know what your definition of that word is (conscious that is, I'm fairly certain what idiot means). You're telling me it's something your experiencing, and I'm inclined to agree, except there is not a single fucking thing about it I can pin down, so it's absolutely hopeless to go look for it in a brain.

u can. But why would u?
knowledge is a subset of beliefs. Do u believe god exists?

The same reason you can't disprove the existence of God: by its own definition, it does not exist in the same physical plane; therefore, one cannot use physical means to prove nor disprove its existence. /thread

Only for claims that have an impact on our universe. Claims outside anything measurable will forever remain unfalsifiable.

who makes it so, that all mallards r ducks, but all ducks r not mallards?

>redefining terms
time is time. God isnt at all
Nature. U lose

>you need to show me something I dont want to find

Why?

is a mug intelligent?

Holy shit he said subset. Completely outclassed

>gods real
show evidence
>something cant come out nothing
we dont know that. If it cant, it still doesnt prove a god

The mystery of the universe

You've never studied philosophy, I see

Look, I'm not saying garage dragon doesn't sound awesome. With all of his abilities, I kind of want to believe in garage dragon. That shit just sounds cool. I'm just saying that with him being "magic" instead of existing on a different level that his existence just isn't possible.

how bout more english and less sophistry?

Also physics

>they use the word differently from most other
why is that ok, then?

u explained the mistery by greater mistery. U solved nothing, but multiplied beings
occhams razor

Because he can only argue easily with fanatics

i didnt say "i see"
yes, its a belief. Unlike your faith. Knowledge is a subset of beliefs. Faith is baseles assumption
iow: we have evidence for it, u dont have evidence for your god

i think all of you should stop trying to experience for what you think it is and experience it for what it is. it is what it is. just my opinion. i'm kinda in a faggot mood right now so if anyone wants to argue, we can make it happen

well it's not quite ok, I would love to live in a world where we have one word per concept and one concept per word, but sadly we don't. what's ok about them is that what they're talking about exists.

good u agree with me

deflection
u lose

Cosmological, ontological, teleogical...ring a bell? Or are you a publicly edjumakated parrot?

>SUBSET MAFUCKA

guy is on a roll

no, because that conception of god is compatible with naturalism.

thats not an answer. Ill just take it as "i donk know"

Well, being able to jump from from one reality to another sounds pretty magic to me.

But there are other ways such an infalsifiable dragon could hide itself. It could mess with your measuring device, or your eyes, or your memories. There's probably a long range of cop-outs that could be used to have the dragon remain unfalsifiable.

Science only works if we trust our observations.

Except you do live in a world where there is one word per concept. It's called Earth. That word was created here and you live here. You just chose not to accept that.

start enforcing it, then

Im rubber and youre both glue so suck a dick

Youll be left questioning ducks for life, poor soul

If prehistoric goat fuckers believed it then it must be true.

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Prove it

nope
no, u r a faggot

why can't atheists disprove the existence of god?

you miss a crucial "and" there. also no, there are synonyms and there are also words with multiple meanings that result in ambiguity. idk what you're talking about.

Damn those aethists and their superior genuis

Undiagnosed add

Look here, I fully believe that garage dragon exists in another dimension. I refuse to believe that he uses magic, instead he uses science which we do not fully understand.

I see that we are going to disagree on this so there's only one logical outcome. We must form two separate groups who believe in garage dragon. These groups will be called Dimenslums, those that believe in garage dragon existing in another dimension, and the Magians, those that believe he is a magical being.

Our two groups shall forever be enemies and will violently fight to the death whenever we meet. We must never lose faith in our beliefs for it is all we are.

Prepare for battle...

I'm an atheist, and I have in fact disproved God. I have the evidence right here in my back pocket.

Why can't theists disprove my evidence disproving God?

>im not arguing youre wrong also I dont understand what you saying and u dumb

K

Prove you are wearing pants

excuse me, were u going to show evidence of god?

prove what? they're literally renaming nature to "God". nature the word we use for what exists therefore God exists. it's not the pop-culture sky-daddy tho.

fuck are you even talking about?

based

If weak minded people need a big angry sky daddy to hold them accountable for being "good" then let them have it. Their children may be raped by priests but that seems to be the going rate for "proving your faith".

>Look here, I fully believe that garage dragon exists in another dimension. I refuse to believe that he uses magic, instead he uses science which we do not fully understand.

Heretic! You will be forever purged in righteous magic dragon fire, but your screams for mercy will go unheard by out Lord Dragon. Because he loves you, you see.

Its like renaming universal laws science.

I hadnt realized thats how aethism defined compatible.

>Hmm looks like you really aren't interested in proving it one way or other.
>Good day kind unintellectual sir.

wow. what a massive fucking faggot.

"HERMMMMMM, LOOKS LIKE I WON'T BE ABLE TO CONVINCE YOU OF MY LIES, SINCE YOU'RE TOO STUCK ON RATIONALE AND LOGIC, THEREFORE I SHALL STOP SPOUTING MY NONSENSE AS YOU ARE NOT FEEBLE MINDED ENOUGH TO BE PERSUADED BY MY BULLSHIT."

at least you're smart enough to know where your bullshit doesn't hold ground/work. But to even bring up your spiel on Yea Forums of all places proves you weren't serious to begin with.

What do you mean?

I said nothing about pants... I'm wearing a strap-on back pocket.

Do you interpret the will of the strapon, or are you simply its keeper?

I'm trying to see what you mean. I got the impression that you misunderstood me in some way and I wanna see how you decided that I think you're dumb.

Sometimes it tells me to burn things.

If people with forked tongues and plates in their ears need someone to make fun of, then those weirdos who believe in things are it.

This is now a garage dragon thread. Everyone shall believe that garage dragon is from another dimension or I will crash small toy airplanes into your flower garden destroying all the pretty flowers.

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I am not as dumb as you look

says the one that believes the universe is 13 billion years old and was creates by nothing

nice ad hominem

Yeah I guess normies do use the word science all willy nilly. It's a special process of investigation, not a set of truths or laws or whatever. It's the supernatural that I don't believe in. If you wanna call the totality of everything around you and beyond "God" then so be it. Idk if that makes me an atheist and I don't care too much tbh. It's another label that can be taken to mean a number of things, for instance, an assertion that there is no such thing as God, a lack of belief that there is a God, or even the state of mind prior to the exposure to the concept of God. For this reason I dislike labels and prefer lengthy expositions instead. There's little chance two random people mean the same thing by the same word.

that makes zero sense you imbecile

tbh if you think I'm dumb then you probably are

Proof of God is in those who have used God's name to their success. Wars waged, religions formed, power seized. The acts done in the name of God are miracles in their own right. That is a force, whether you believe it to be completely mental or physical or both, that cannot be denied.

I don't actually have a reason to believe that atoms exist because no one has bothered to show them to me, and i can not see them with my own eyes. I will believe it when I both understand them AND see them.

There are several lines of evidence leading to the universe's age. And an atheist, unlike a deist, wouldn't presume to conclude anything about what we know nothing about, just point out that it's illogical to insert agency where we have not observed any.

The theory that stuff is made out of atoms produces predictions, which we can test.

The real question is, do you believe that garage dragon is from another dimension?

Chose your answer carefully as your flower garden may have a bruised tulip. No one likes bruised tulips.

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>aethism
l2spell
u dont understand descriptive laws of nature were discovered and formulated thanks to scientific method
stop trolling, u already lost

This makes sense.

was for

Sounds like collective delusion

No u af fam

u alreadu got btfo. Show evidence of god, or stfu

Someone went out of their way not to be retarded and you had to crap on it.

i said im gonna succeed in a task myself. Am i a god, or is your argument fallacious, as its a non-sequitur and cherrypicking?

It exists beyond dimensions! Our dimension only exists because he willed it into existence. He can take shape into any dimension he chooses.

Can anyone prove you are not?

I'm talking about grand tasks, world changing events where someone used God as their instrument for the masses. Or individuals who used God as their muse and created beautiful things. You can of course succeed in your task of changing your underwear. No one will take notice.

nah bruh, all your posts have been low effort. if you're smart, you're definitely not showing it. the fact that you don't notice leads me to believe that you're not.