Women's bodies are theirs. They have 100% choice in whether or not they have a child. If this is true...

One thing I don't understand about pro-life people is they want to support the unborn but once they're born, fuck them and fuck welfare I ain't paying for it.

you are not being logical. stop being emotional and think logically for 2 seconds..

indeed, but most pro-choice are anti death penalty. this thread was not meant to be political. i am just drunk, and i hate how fucking moronic society is.

I'm just saying that child support exists for the CHILD, not their dumbass mother/father or their mistakes.
It doesn't matter who's responsible or guilty, the child deserves enough money to have a decent childhood.

Exactly this. It is all about the children.

I said the father should not pay child support. i said nothing about not having taxes going to help single mothers..

The problem is the government doesn't have the funds to pay for god knows how many children. Even if they did, they'd just misuse it anyways or fuck up the program.
The child's mom can't make enough money to raise the child since she's busy raising the child. Her parents have their own shit to deal with.
That leaves the dad as the one who's free to provide financial support.

Wrong. She has the choice of whether to fuck you. You have the choice of whether to risk getting her pregnant.

If you don't want a child, then either put on a condom, get a vasectomy, or stop having sex. If you refuse to do any of these things, she gets pregnant, and she won't abort, then man up and pay your fucking child support.

> Even if they did, they'd just misuse it anyways or fuck up the program.
they already do. you're obviously underage or live under a trust fund. stop being a pussy and live in the real world.

Not their choice. It's not their body . It's someone else's.

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If I have a choice of weather I fuck her or not, I have an equal choice of weather the child lives or dies. I don't have a child, and I am pro-choice by the way..

But it isn't their body. It's someone else's body inside of their body.

Define "somebody".

lol

some dumb slut's kid is not my problem, nor do i give a shit about either of them. maybe if things got bad enough for them they would stop being fucking retards, but sure, let's just keep enabling the assholes

>Who's responsibility it is to fund that is less of a concern
Then get Bill Gates or Warren Buffet to do it. Why the fuck should a Wendys assistant manager be on the hook for paying for some slut's spawn if the money is more important than the source?

what?

a human being grows inside of a woman and is then born. that's how life works. that's where you came from.

You can't even take care of yourself. Why are you worried about society?

Bunch of know-nothing faggots can't even get your own lives right but you have the audacity to tell everyone else how to live?

Fuck off.

Which is exactly why women have abortions. A parasite is living off of her body and she doesnt want it to.

Bill gates nor Warren Buffet should have to pay any more than a Wendy's assistant manager. Fair is fair. if it's 100% your choice, it's 100% your responsibility. /thread

fuck off moral fag

Consciousness and feelings haven't developed until 5 months.
So again, define "somebody".
Saying it's life doesn't cut it. Worms, viruses, cells and bugs are living things. And yet we have no problem destroying them.

my life is going pretty well by "societies standards". I'm a CPA. Just because I like to drink on the weekends doesn't mean I am some fuck up like you.

I'm assuming you meant to say should NOT have to pay any more. But you're missing the point, if the money is the point, not who pays for it, and if it's the "best interests of the child," then to remain consistent the money should come from the people best able to provide it. Also you can't /thread yourself you pretentious faggot.

I hope you make more than living wage, and you donate whatever is left of your "living wage" to charity, you fucking cuck.

Whats with all the lib tards and Christian fags being pro life on here? Fuck off moral fags.

worms viruses cells and bugs aren't humans in the womb. the whole "b-b-but it's just cells" argument is moronic and laughable. it's a human being. all people are just clusters of cells.

your immaturity is showing

abortion is objectively wrong but we allow it as as society to keep minority populations lower. i don't actually oppose abortion, mind you, i support it because i don't give a shit about other people, but i'm not going to sit here and act like the kind of retard that actually tries to rationalize it away as being nothing

Why would I do that? I don't give a shit about anyone else's kids. I'm against child support, what I've been pointing out is why it's such a retarded concept. Feminists (and the government, actually) are all about "muh best interests," which is really just a way to try to make it impersonal when they steal a man's money.

Are you one of those moralfags who opposes unplugging the life support machine on brain dead patients?

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>it's a human being
>objectively wrong
>we allow it as as society to keep minority populations lower
Citation fucking needed. You can't just throw out these ridiculous moralfag claims like they're bulletproof truth. I know you're probably used to the other christcucks agreeing with you over things that nobody can prove (I know you're religious because nobody else uses phrases like objectively wrong), but outside of your brainwashing centers, we need things like proof and evidence.

nope, i'm not

but i'm not going to also sit there and act like it's not taking a life

Then, no one should pay for child support? You're a fucking illogical, low wage, jealous faggot. errr i make $13 an hr joe make $200 an hr. make joe pay it!!!

Im not the person you replied to. Your ego makes you think that a cluster of human embryonic cells is worth anything. Abortion is not objectively wrong either. It's debatable to be morally wrong, but obviously morals are subjective. Your immaturity is showing.

listen, we get that you hate yourself, and other people, or whatever

just try to stop being an edgy middle-schooler, it's not cool anymore

shut up libtard moralfag

>listen, I'm going to attack you because I cant refute anything you said

Okay, then bucko! Your immaturity is glaring now :^) It's hilarious how utterly wrong you are.

Pro-tip: when Roe v. Wade is overturned, buy stocks in coat hangers.

why so?

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>ave a child. If this is true, no man should have to pay child support, right?
Just another toxicic syptom of living in a matriarchal siciety> treating mean with common decently is pretty sexist

Free BBQ Ribs, OK, works for me. I'm not sure why you're broke paycheck to paycheck is talking about any type of investment tho..

>Roe v. Wade overturned
>States are allowed to make abortions illegal
>Pregnant women will do self abortion with the help of coat hangers, dirty doctors or any other means
>Dirty profit is to be made

and men have a 100% choice of not fucking a bitch that would be so selfish as to murder their own offspring.

i still don't get it.. you're broke, and you are a liberal faggot who know's nothing about investments. the only thing you know is to give your money to your mistresses bbc.

that doesn't make the dude responsible for her body

it does make the dude descerning enough to not be an accessory to such a heinous act.

You can see into the future? pretty sick. hopefully i can predict a wise investment that will make me rich..

uhh.. i wouldn't fuck a bitch that i knew was pro-choice. full stop.

Ok I'll help your retarded low IQ brain.
It was a joke to demonstrate how retarded making abortion illegal because women will get abortions anyway. The profits in the black market will be yuge.

having sex = heinous act. we found the incel who attends every feminist convention.

I still don't get it..

ok, im done here, you are intentionally misinterpreting what im saying and you damned well know it.

I still don't get how retarded you are.

okie, whatever you say, bye

I'm so retarded that I wished I payed more in taxes, so does your father. Your mother might have been able to have gotten you into a school that wasn't full of nigs. Who knows, maybe you could've turned out to be something..

Thread got boring.
You're all autistic.

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Abortion is a double eged sword. I do like the idea of killing babies, however I do not like giving women the option to make decisions.

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thanks for the bump mane

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No problem, my anonymous friend.

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you have no fucking life. lolololololololololololollolfjoajsdojfoijgoaihofhodihfoiahdsiohfoahsdo

Bullshit
nope
nope
faggot
gay

I believe anyone who goes to have an abortion should be forced to have a hysterectomy same day. If you're going to reproduce and kill your offspring, you don't deserve the ability to reproduce.

Now, disagree with me and tell me why women soo badly need the ability to kill their children. Also, those extremely rare occasions of rape make up sell than 1% of abortions...soo be realistic in your argument to be taken serious.

>Normal white conservative Christian teenagers get abortion
>They should not be able to breed anymore

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"Think of the children!"

You let emotions dictate your decisions but don't think about the bigger picture.

These policies are destroying the nuclear family.
Women are marrying the state so they can be "independent".
They will continue to vote for more and more socialist polices since women typically vote for safety nets.
All that will happen is encourage more of this behavior and more children will be born to single mothers.

This will lead to the degradation of our culture and society.

Actually, if it stops more single mothers then I like it. For some fucking reason single mothers seem to be a serious issue in the US and I can't figure out why

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not the guy you were posting to
but for the record
you dont give a damn about our culture or society and you obviously dont understand it
assuming you did
then from an ethical point id want you to put your money where your mouth is
if you are going to be taken seriously about people being killed for the great good
you should kill them
if you dont believe that a fetus is a person
you just dont understand biology
but if you do
before you can have a valid position on the subject
you should crush one of the little fuckers skulls

again not the guy you replied to
but honestly i think that it might be for the best end the genetic line of people who have premarital sex
you know
for the "greater good"

So with that stipulation in mind. Do you inquire about the political stances of women you sleep with so that you maintain your moral high ground? Or do you fuck away no questions asked and then get butthurt if she gets pregnant and doesn't want to give birth to the child?

> If this is true, no man should have to pay child support, right?
I don't think you understand them. The reason WHY people pay child support and women win custody battles. If you get a girl pregnant and try to get her to abort your child, you WILL lose a custody battle as a result since the courts side with the parent who didn't want the kid killed.

Feminists push abortion because its a means to dominate men via the legal system. If a woman wants a kid, then all she has to do is tell dumb guys that she's pro-abortion and will gladly kill the kid if she gets pregnant. Obviously when a woman says that they're lying(except in maybe ~.01% of cases when you have a fucked up cunt) but it gets 2 things their way:
1) They get a kid
AND
2) The father of that kid, likely wanting the woman to abort the child, will be easily destroyed in court especially if there's any evidence that he didn't want the child born.

Feminists also want abortion legal, free, and up to(and even past) birth for 1 major reason: it makes their case in court during a custody battle air tight. Obviously they wanted the kid born otherwise there wouldn't be a custody battle in the first place. This proves to the courts that the mother of the kid at least valued the life of the child.

>"hurr durr, feminists just want to kill kids"
No, they want the legal upper hand. No one gives the slightest bit of a fuck about women who actually want to kill their own kids. Those mentally ill things should be sterilized.

Its about making it easier for women to get kids from men who don't want kids and its about winning custody battles. Of course, countless dumbfucks can't figure this out and they then get a girl pregnant, try to get her to kill their child, and then find themselves on the losing side of a court case. Then the fuckers go around telling others that that will happen to them if they don't try to get their kids killed.

Child Support is the price men pay for trying to kill their children.

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>The reason WHY people pay child support and women win custody battles is, If you get a girl pregnant and try to get her to abort your child, you WILL lose a custody battle as a result since the courts side with the parent who didn't want the kid killed.
Fixed. Fucking punctuation

Women are equal to men. Let them pay for themselves

More kids should be aborted now a days. Too many people as it is.

>if she gets pregnant and doesn't want to give birth to the child?
Rarely ever happens. What happens 99+% of the time is that the father doesn't want the kid born. Of course, such men will never admit that since it makes them look far worse after losing the custody battle.

If you date a girl and she says she'll gladly abort the kid if she gets pregnant, here's a fun fact you should know: she's lying. If you fall for that lie and try to get her to follow through with what she said she'd do, she will kick your ass in court and get full custody and child support. And, if you think your defense in court will be "but your honor, this cunt told me she'd abort the kid and thus its not my reponsibility to pay child support", you're very wrong. The legal system doesn't give a fuck about what the girl SAID especially when the girl has to say such things if that's what it takes to get her pregnant. In fact, it shows that you're a shallow fuck in court for trying to get out of fatherhood. Lying may be illegal in court but its not in real life. Most women that say they'd gladly abort their next child are lying. Besides, its a smart move to make that lie since they not only get children from shitty men who think that fatherhood is that thing starts after sex and ends at the closest abortion clinic but they also get the legal upper hand against those men. If they marry those men, the men are fucked during a divorce. Usually when you see kids with hyphenated last name(eg AOC), it means their father tried to get them aborted and the mother makes sure the child has her last name too since obviously the paternal side of the family didn't value its offspring.

Ah, but the stupidity is even thicker. The same general group wants to have abstinence-only sex education, de-fund government agencies that provide sex education and birth-control, is against legislation that would make employers responsible for providing birth control, against legislation requiring pharmacies to provide it, and against requiring goveenment-funded religious hospitals from being required to perform abortions, most if which are not about dodging responsibility, but protecting a pregnant woman's life from complications in pregnancy.

There's idiocy, then there's religious idiocy. My God, the dumb is so intense it burns...

Yeah, but men are equally responsible for the children. Also, if a man wants his kid aborted, he has NO right to have involvement in that child's life except to pay child support. Such a man harms his children and tries to "justify" his past behavior by "proving" the kid was better off dead by trying to sabatoge the life of the child, give the child bad advice, and even abuse the kid.

You get a girl knocked up and you don't value that child's life from conception then you deserve to be paying child support with NO custody. That's the most fair thing for the child.

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Kill yourself

You know what's really stupid? Repeating talking points like a parrot. Dumb cunt, why don't you be honest about this issue and admit that its all about giving women the legal upper hand when getting knocked up by shitbags.

The same feminists talking about how much they love abortion always tend to wind up with kids. You know why? Because their political views were tools they used in the pursuit of getting kids. Many men are dumbfucks who want to kill their own kids and feminists trick them into thinking that they'd give those men what they want.

Legal abortion leads to single-mother households, crime, and most of the other problems associated with children raised without a father. When you LIE to men that they can get out of fatherhood, then many actually try and don't want anything to do with the kids.

Banning abortion would solve a lot of serious problems in our society because it would take away the lie that men can get out of fatherhood and thus the large number of men who try to get their kids killed would vanish.

Funny how the retarded feminists ITT can't even come up with a good argument. Guess that happens when your political position is inherently dishonest and really just a means to have legal leverage over men.

discord
X]-X)10(X-[X
.gg/vvftDyy

How feminists REALLY see the abortion issue:
Feminist: "I really don't want kids tee hee. I'll gladly abort the child if I get pregnant"
1 year later....
Feminist in court: "This dirtbag father of my child tried to get me to abort my precious son/daughter. I don't want this man in my life and I deserve full custody and child support"

Its all about manipulating shitty men who don't want kids. That's all this pro-abortion shit is. Here's what WILL happen in the future if feminists keep this shit up: laws will change that will give men the ability to force women to abort their kids. People like Joe Biden and that racist babykiller from Virginia support such legal changes and feminists can't stop them since trying to do so would expose their real agenda. The feminist that goes around lying saying that babies should die can't make a good argument against MEN who agree with the words she's saying and make it easier for fathers to force women to kill their own children. Feminism will fail and it will fuck over women as it falls since its spent 50+ years trying to convince men that women literally don't love anything more than killing their own children.

Fuck off FBI

Shit. I’ll drink to that

Funny how all the feminists who've been shitting up this thread immediately left the moment I said that feminists push abortion in order to win custody battles.

Come on feminists, give me a good argument! I want to humiliate you on here and make you admit that you only support legal abortion in order to have the upper hand in the courts.

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And you'll lost a custody battle as a result.

Why do the mothers get the kid at all if they're incapable of providing for it?

>Why do the mothers get the kid at all if they're incapable of providing for it?
Because in most custody battles, the father wanted the child aborted. Even a shitty parent is better than a parent who wanted the kid killed and thrown away. A parent who wanted their child aborted will be a bad parent since he(or she) will try to justify his/her position on the kid's birth by sabotaging the life of the child or even, in extreme cases, killing the kid. Men who leave their kids in hot cars or parents who leave dangerous chemicals out around their kids do so because, subconsciously, they want harm to come to their kid so they can justify not wanting the kid born in the first place.

Obviously legal abortion ensures that its usually only the father who wanted the kid aborted(otherwise there wouldn't be a kid for the parents to fight over) and thus women have the upper hand in custody disputes. Does this mean that some women lie? Yeah. That's why you should make clear verbally, in writing, and to other people that you DO NOT want your kid aborted once you get a girl pregnant(and obviously you damn well better not try to get her to kill your kid). That way you can't be a victim of a liar lying to the judge/jury to get full custody or have more of a say in how your kid is raised.

Always remember this: men who try to get their kid(s) aborted and lose in court won't admit it. Hell, they'll try to get other men to fuck up just like themselves often by lying and trying to trick other men into thinking that they're fucked if they don't try to get out of fatherhood. Its very cruel.

Basically, legal abortion makes it so that women can easily prove in court that they care more about the life of their own child than the father of the kid especially if there's evidence that he didn't want the kid born. Family law sees abortion as a form of murder(albeit a legal one) and thus a man trying to get a woman/girl to abort his child is considered an attempted child-killer.

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>so they can justify their position of not wanting the kid born in the first place.
Fixed

>incapable of providing for it?
They clearly are since starvation is very rare. Poor people in America and Western Europe live in relative luxury. Also, the father deserves to pay child support if he tried to get the kid aborted.

The reason why so many men try to get out of fatherhood and try to get their kids aborted is because men don't financially profit off of having kids. In the past, the difference between a man dying in comfort or starvation came down to the success of his kids. Even shitty men were decent fathers because they knew they were fucked if their kids failed. With urbanization, Social Security, and the shitty types of men those things create, many men try to get out of fatherhood since they don't see personal benefit. This isn't the same for women who still retain their maternal instinct.

This is why feminists are lying when they push all their crap saying that women don't want kids or that the issue of abortion is about "men trying to force women to not kill their kids". The truth is that most abortions are the result of the father of the kid not wanting children. Feminists push the lie that they'd gladly abort their kids so that shitty men(especially men who manipulated a woman/women in the past to abort their kids) will be more willing to get them pregnant and say/do things that prove that they wanted the kid aborted and that can be used against them in court by the women. Women lie but maternal instinct still rules them.

When you understand this, everything the feminists say and do makes a lot more sense. Even though they act like they don't want kids, they actually do and are just setting a trap for shitty men who want free sex.

A funny thing you notice in life is dumbfucks who bang feminists thinking those women will abort their children for them. Instead, the feminists end up with kid(often with hyphenated last names) and either a cucky husband or a monthly child support check.

Protip for men: the moment you get a girl pregnant, you better be so Pro-Life that people around you worry that you might kill abortion doctors.

I want to call bullshit on your post but these trips don't lie

Talk to a family law attorney and they'll tell you everything I'm saying is true. They will also recommend that you keep in touch with an attorney for advice on family law issues. If you don't have a lawyer or get advice from one, then you need to make sure to get one. Some women are crazy and will accuse of trying to get out of fatherhood even if you do everything right.

Nice try family law attorney. You'll need to do better than that if you want to wallow in the disposable income of us KHV neets

>Nice try family law attorney. You'll need to do better than that if you want to wallow in the disposable income of us KHV neets
Its advice for your future. There's no type of guy more miserable than the wimpy guy who gets a girlfriend/wife, gets her pregnant, and then, due to peer pressure from others(especially sociopaths), tries to get her to abort his child only for that to be used against him in court. Consider your current position in life a blessing compared to countless other men. You may be a blank slate family-wise but that only means that the future will decide your fate.

I had a room mate once that was that kind of loser. I really feel bad for him but he shouldn't have let others talk him into trying to get his daughter aborted. I also used to be friends with a filthy sociopath who knocked up a girl, tried to get her to abort his kid, and she raped him in court. Last I heard, he's a worthless drunk who'll hopefully deepthroat his shotgun(if the cops haven't taken it away yet).

Just remember: feminism is all about manipulating men into saying/doing that which gives women power over them. Knowing that, its your responsibility not to be an asshole.

>but that only means that your actions in the future will decide your fate.
Fixed

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>Rants on feminism
>Still falls for the baseline "It's all the men's fault, they take all the decisions" logic

I'll tell you a little secret, dude. Considering men both make more income and occupy more lawmaker positions than women, don't you ever ask yourself why it's women who make 80% of all household purchases or why all family law default rulings seems skewed in their favor?

You talk about peer pressure like it's something men rely on and yet all evidence point to it the main weapon wielded by women through history.

don't want to worry about child support?
wear a fucking condom or don't fuck. that simple.

>don't you ever ask yourself why it's women who make 80% of all household purchases
Because many live at home
> or why all family law default rulings seems skewed in their favor?
I explained that many posts ITT. For instance:
Women win custody battles because men try to get their kids aborted. In modern society where men don't financially profit from having kids unlike in agrarian society, many men try to get out of fatherhood. Feminists are able to exploit all this by SAYING they want their kids aborted but not actually meaning it.

The main reason why women are able to bend men over the barrel and fuck them via the legal system is that legal abortion ensures that, in a given custody dispute, the very fact that a kid is alive is proof the mother didn't want the kid aborted. The courts will side with the parent who didn't want the child killed reguardless of what the woman said during the relationship. Yes, its LEGAL for a girl to say she'd abort your kid only to refuse to do so and then bring you to court and tell the judge/jury that you were the bad guy and the courts will side with her.

>You talk about peer pressure like it's something men rely on and yet all evidence point to it the main weapon wielded by women through history.
I've seen many men be manipulated by their peers into trying to get out of fatherhood only for that to be used against them in court.

>>Still falls for the baseline "It's all the men's fault, they take all the decisions" logic
Well, it kind of is. If you, as the father of your child, try to get the mother of your child to abort your child, you don goofed and it can be used against you in court. Feminists are manipulators and their actions hurt many women but, in the end, its all about giving women the upper hand in court.

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Its not their body so the premise is faulty.
If you make a kid you should take care of it.

>don't want to worry about child support?
>wear a fucking condom or don't fuck. that simple.
False. If you want to avoid paying child support, don't try to get the girl to abort your child. Also, talk to a family law attorney before you have sex or, at the latest, the moment you find out the girl is pregnant so that she can't lie and say you tried to get her to abort your kid.

>muh condoms
Condoms don't always work. Even if they were indestructable, all a girl has to do(and MANY do) is take the used condom outside of your view, empty its contents into her hand, and push your jizz into her pussy. Countless pregnancies start this way. This is the same with blowjobs. If a girl wants a kid(and she won't admit it 99% of the time), she'll just spit your baby-batter into her hand and put it in her pussy when you're not looking. This is why planned parenthood, despite making money off of killing babies, tells men to always throw used condoms into the garbage and never flush them down the toilet. They don't say this out of respect for the plumbing industry but rather out of a desire to give women the ability to get pregnant even if the man doesn't want her to. The 2nd half of their business is to help get women pregnant when they want to start a family.

Oh, and if you think that the best solution is to get a vacectomy, let me tell you what happens to those men:
1) Women don't like them. Women can find out pretty quickly if a man is infertile. Women, even ones that say they never want kids(they're lying 99.99% of the time BTW) don't want anything to do with a guy who can't get them pregnant and will only be with him if...
2) The man becomes a cuck. You get a vacectomy, you WILL be cheated on and, if you're married, you WILL have to accept the adultery and the courts won't side with you since you're failing to give your woman what she wants. Cucks don't like being in that position but its often the only way they can have a woman unless they want to pay a whore.

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Bunch of baby murderers rationalizing up in here.

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Good thing it's their body ya fuckin' trilobite.

imagine being as retarded as the people in this thread

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>Its not their body so the premise is faulty.
Feminists actually know that. Remember: everything feminists say is the mirror opposit of what they believe. For instance: when a feminist says "no means no but yes doesn't always mean yes" she's actually saying "yes means yes but no doesn't always mean no". In that example, 'no' doesn't mean 'no' when the woman is preying on a dominant man who doesn't respect consent(it DOESN'T mean that 'no' means 'yes' in all instances).

So, when a feminist says "my body my choice", what she's really saying is "not my body, not my choice". They say that because it reflects their view that, with reguard to abortion, in many cases, its the man who manipulates stupid pre-feminist girls into aborting their kid and, feminists who don't let men rule them, translate that phrase to mean that its either their maternal instinct or their child that decides if the child lives or dies. Its some really esoteric shit to read into.

Why do feminists pull this kind of shit? Because many of them were honest girls who told their first boyfriend that they wanted kids and a picket fence only to be manipulated into aborting their first child before being dumped. Saying the opposite of what they mean is a clever means to manipulate men.

Like I said before, feminists are often very anti-abortion when it comes to their own lives. A feminist may tell you she'll gladly abort your kid but, if you get her pregnant and try to get her to live up to what she says, you'll find yourself on the losing side of a custody battle or in a marriage where she's the one who wears the pants and your kid(s) have hyphenated last names.

>Good thing it's their body ya fuckin' trilobite.
Its not though and they know it. You're making the mistake of taking what feminists say at face value instead of translating it into actual English.

You sound like incel loser who took too much red pills.

I'll bet you're the kind of guy who got a girl knocked up, tried to get her to kill your kid, and are now slaving away at a job to pay the child support after you got your ass kicked in a custody battle. Serves you right, faggot. As arrogant as you act, you're the loser everyone laughs at.

Work harder, prick, your kids deserve new shoes.

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I may sound that way but what I'm saying is true. If you've ever been around women, you'd know it. Of course, if you have been around women and you hate what I say, then that speaks volumes on your actions in life. I bet you cried in court when the "lying cunt" told the judge about how you tried to force her to abort your kid.

The courts don't see it that way. You try that shit and you can bet your ass you'll be in jail. The moment a girl has an unexpected miscarriage, she can have tests done to see if there was something slipped into her drink/food and women DO have those tests done since no girl wants some guy killing their children.

I believe a man has to pay child support if he agreed to the baby.

So If I were to get pregnant and my bf didnt want it and wanted me to abort it and i refused then i think he should express that he will not be financially responsible for it.

I dont believe a man should be forced to pay for something he didnt want to have..
However if he welcomes the child and if down the line something happens between him and the mother I believe it's his duty to pay child support because it's a child he wanted to have

When a girl's maternal instinct is manipulated by a man in such a way that it costs the life of her child, it really fucks her up in the head. After that, girls become extra deceptive.

My theory is that, what was once considered to be 'witches' in the past, were merely women who were manipulated into killing their own child and it caused them to behave in a seemingly anti-family way. Modern feminists are basically what were once known as 'witches'. What often turns a girl into a feminist is her getting a boyfriend that gets her pregnant and then manipulates her into aborting her first child before dumping her. That causes serious trauma especially since the manipulation played on her own maternal instinct and used it against her. After this, the girl talks as though she doesn't want kids and has rejected her maternal instinct but instead is actually driven by the same force as before. This is why feminists like Amy Scheumer my go around saying shit that makes them sound like they never want kids and that their womb would be an execution chamber for their offspring but, when they actually do get pregnant, they suddenly change and value the life of their child.

Stupid and shitty men fall for this trick. Too bad women suffer so much but this continues the species.

That sounds reasonable.

>I believe a man has to pay child support if he agreed to the baby.
he agreed to the baby when he fucked the woman. Its also still his child too and thus he's responsible for making sure the child has money and clothing.

>i think he should express that he will not be financially responsible for it.
Terrible idea. Not only would that turn every Western country on earth into a welfare state(the kids won't starve), but it won't even get the ends YOU want since you'll still be paying child support(except, instead of it just being for your kid, it will be for countless other kids).

>I dont believe a man should be forced to pay for something he didnt want to have..
Too bad. The price of sex is children. If he doesn't want kids, then he should chop his dick off or deepthroat a shotgun.

>However if he welcomes the child and if down the line something happens between him and the mother
If he wanted the kid aborted, its no longer his right to be the kid's father. Its still his responsibility to pay for the kid but he lost the prerogatives of fatherhood the moment he suggested the kid be aborted.

Your idea is retarded. Of course, we both know what you really want: forced abortion. Yeah, Rome did that and it resulted in Rome having to rely on slavery and immigration to the point where Rome got destroyed by its former allies and subjects.

You want sex, then you pay for it. Either by being a good involved father if you valued the life of your child from conception OR by cash paid to a whore or to an ex for a kid you tried to kill.

Bitch I got a fleshlight, I dunno what you talkin about. I know my hormones are a trap to be a slave to some cunt in this day and age, and she will never get me. Call me a wizard. Tell me to make a brain smoothie. I'm living large, even if I have to microwave a bagel and have sex with it.

No its not. If you get a woman pregnant, you're responsible for the child. Shitbags like (i.e. probably you samefagging) wreck society, create single mothers, and lower the birthrate so that hostile foreign slaves come in and do the work that should've been done by the offspring of our citizenry.

The only thing I hate more than feminists are fuckers like you and I'm actually kind of happy that feminists dominate your kind in court and trick you fuckers into getting them pregnant. I just think abortion should be illegal so that fuckers like you don't think you can get out of fatherhood and thus don't try. But, so long as it is legal, I'm happy fuckers like you get raped in court and have to pay child support every month. I'm even happier when one of your kind decides enough is enough and eats a bullet. Fags like you are why Democraps have so much power.

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Fuck all white faggot people. Seriously you fucking cuckold snow nigggers are so god damn retarded you THINK and you FIGHT AND DIE for the state. the state that says "if your women fucks another man while your married you have to raise the kid" Same state that says EQUALITY FOR ALL BUT if you break up with this poor poor women she needs half your income for the next 20 years goyim.

YOUR A FUCKING cuckold! and your a FUCKING SLAVE and it is up to US BROWN and MED people to save this fucking planet from your cuckoldry and stupidity. We dominate our women, because clearly they are fucking retarded, and the STATE should back the fuck off.

i talk shit to all the people at my job about marriage, and how this cuck shit is so retarded.

>Bitch I got a fleshlight, I dunno what you talkin about.
Lets hope so.

>I know my hormones are a trap to be a slave to some cunt in this day and age, and she will never get me.
Assuming you're telling the truth(which you probably aren't Mr. Monthly Child Support) you're perfectly safe so long as you remember 3 things:
1) When(and its not 'if', its 'when') you get a girl pregnant, you better be 100% Pro-Life. You try to weasel out of fatherhood(even if a convincing friend/coworker/father etc tells you you can) and you're fucked. You try to 'take matters into your own hands' to get out of fatherhood, get ready to be raped by Cletus and Tyrone in prison.
2) When you get into a sexual relationship, you better start talking to a family law attorney. If you just so happen to have a fucked up GF/wife who'll lie and claim you wanted her to abort your kid, you're safe from gettting reamed in court if you have a knowledgeable attorney on your side. You're fucked if you actually do try to get your kid aborted.
3) Don't get a vasectomy unless you enjoy using a fleshlight in a cuckshed while several men fuck your wife/gf. Even then, you'll probably never get a wife/gf if you sterilized yourself unless you have money.

Preface: Not the fag you are responding to. I am ancap with some religious beliefs.

>he agreed to the baby when he fucked the woman. Its also still his child too and thus he's responsible for making sure the child has money and clothing.
But this should go both ways. If he agreed to baby when fucking the women, she agreed to it as well.
However, she has has the opinion to revoke her consent on basis of "my body, my choice". It would seem fair for man to have similar, symmetrical option to opt out of the deal.
Am i wrong?

>Not only would that turn every Western country on earth into a welfare state
Implying they aren't already.

> you'll still be paying child support(except,...)
Well, we can agree on that. But i see that mostly as evidence of socialism/welfare state being wrong.

>The price of sex is children.
Agree, but the premise stated in OP is
>[Women] have 100% choice in whether or not they have a child. If this is true

>If he wanted the kid aborted, its no longer his right to be the kid's father. Its still his responsibility to pay for the kid
That seems rather arbitrary statement.
I wonder if the opposite would be true if the women considered aborting and the men would talk her out of it.

>Fuck all white faggot people. Seriously you fucking cuckold snow nigggers are so god damn retarded you THINK and you FIGHT AND DIE for the state. the state that says "if your women fucks another man while your married you have to raise the kid" Same state that says EQUALITY FOR ALL BUT if you break up with this poor poor women she needs half your income for the next 20 years goyim.
1) You're only responsible for another man's kids if you claim to be the father on the birth certificate or, if the woman claims you're the father and you never dispute it.
2) You're probably not going to be cheated on if you get the girl pregnant yourself. Guys that get sterilized get cheated on and have to raise other mens' kids.

Face it: don't try to get your kids aborted and you'll be fine. If you think there's adultery going on, then get a DNA test before you claim to be a kid's father. Idiots like you make everyone miserable.

I'll bet you don't talk shit to anyone. Half the men at your workplace are probably losers paying child support for kids they tried to have aborted. You should laugh at them for trying to get out of fatherhood.

If a woman wants a kid and you don't give her one, then you shouldn't be surprised when she cheats on you with someone who will.

half the people at my wor think its normal that the state can force you raise bastard kids. Which is just fucking pathetic. They also think its a radical idea to move all these retarded leftist to europe where they actually belong.

I dont see whats wrong or radical about moving all these leftist that support mass migration, high taxes, and government control of everything to shit hole Western europe where they will fit right in.

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welcome to my pasta folder, thank you for your extremely insightfull post.

>But this should go both ways. If he agreed to baby when fucking the women, she agreed to it as well.
I agree. That's why abortion needs to be banned.
>However, she has has the opinion to revoke her consent
True, and she shouldn't. More often than not when a girl does, its due to manipulation/coersion from the father of the kid or her own parents. Its not her choice.

>"my body, my choice"
When feminists say shit, they mean the mirror opposite. Its weird but, when you realize this, a lot of what they say actually starts to make sense. That phrase decoded is actually "not my body, not my choice". You'll notice most feminists don't kill their kids even when they say they do/will.

> It would seem fair for man to have similar
No it wouldn't. A man doesn't suffer for the rest of his life like a woman does. The feminist creature is a product of abortion. It fucks with them so badly that they change mentally.

>Implying they aren't already.
Its not a good idea to make it worse. Rome was FAR worse and it led to chaos. The best solution is to create conditions where men financially benefit from having kids. Legalize child labor, destroy unions, make government retirement(SS) dependent on one's children's income/wealth, etc. These things will have to happen and they're far better than what you're suggesting which WILL lead to more immigration and a welfare state.

>Agree, but the premise stated in OP is
It shouldn't be legal. I'm not defending legal abortion. In fact, I'm pointing out the real reason WHY feminists push it. They don't want legal abortion out of a desire to kill kids. They want it so that they can have the upper hand in the courts. If abortion is legal, then its also legal for men to try to convince their wives/gfs to abort their kids which those women can then use against the men in court and get the upper hand.

>I wonder if the opposite would be true...
In that case, the man should have the upper hand legally.

>half the people at my wor think its normal that the state can force you raise bastard kids. Which is just fucking pathetic.
No its not. If you're not getting your woman the kids she wants, then she has the right to get them from someone else. If you consider those kids your own, then yeah, you should have to pay for them.

The reason why your co-workers support that(and I'm assuming its mainly your female ones) is that that's what's best for the children. Women want kids. Its maternal instinct. If you're not giving your woman kids, then she can get them from someone else. If you love her, then you won't be a bitch about it.

You know another reason why they support that shit? Its because a large number of men get vasectomies so they can't ever have kids. Women don't like being forced to be childless just so the man they love can weasel out of fatherhood.

>I dont see whats wrong or radical about moving all these leftist that support mass migration, high taxes, and government control of everything to shit hole Western europe where they will fit right in.
Good idea. Fuck leftists. But you still need to have positive population growth otherwise hostile foreigners will move in. Also, women, like I said a thousand times, want kids. If you keep denying them from having kids, then they'll bring in new men to replace you who are more willing to get them pregnant.

Be careful with that since it can really trigger people especially if you say that stuff IRL.

>I agree. That's why abortion needs to be banned.
I wouldn't say outright banned, since as ancap i don't believe in banning things. But i agree otherwise.

>she has has the opinion to revoke her consent
>True, and she shouldn't.
Cool, but her having right to revoke such implied consent is set as premise in the fucking OP. If you ignore this premise in my post, you don't need to react to the rest of it.

>If you consider those kids your own, then yeah, you should have to pay for them.
If anyone do that, he is literall cuck and should either stand for himself, or suffer silently.

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>Cool, but her having right to revoke such implied consent is set as premise in the fucking OP
I'm not defending what OP is saying. So long as abortion is legal, I'm 100% for women tricking men into thinking they'd abort their kid when they have no intent to.

>If anyone do that, he is literall cuck and should either stand for himself, or suffer silently.
Agree. If he got himself sterlized, then he deserves to suffer the adultery that always comes with sterilization. If he's cheated on and the girl gets a kid out of the adultry, then he should have the right to not be legally recognized as the father. That's due diligence on his part.

Even though you consider yourself an ancap, you have to face the fact that you live in the real world. Legal abortion does give women more power over men and those women will support things politically that are counter to your ancap principals especially when legal abortion creates the conditions where women don't(and shouldn't) have the father(s) of their children in their lives. It would be horrific if you let those men be part of the lives of their kids for a number of reasons. Its men trying to get out of fatherhood which is why the legal system sides with women because otherwise it would put kids in harms way.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't have it both ways. If you want abortion to be legal, then women are going to have more power an influence in society and their political goals, being guided from maternalism rather than anything else, will run counter to yours. Now you could say you're an ancap who thinks that women should be considered 2nd-class citizens. That would bring out a whole bunch of other issues that would lead to society being filled with migrants.

Remember something: the core of the abortion issue is men not wanting their own kids born. Such men make terrible fathers. If men didn't turn against their own kids, then your ancap ideals would be more possible.

Fuck off FBI.

Women are wholly incapable of rational thinking. Only an idiot or a mad man would allow a woman to decide on anything other than what to make for dinner or what the house interior should look like.

To add to what I'm saying: the issue of men not valuing the lives of their kids is a very very important issue. The cause of this is due to men not financially benefiting from the lives of their kids. The farming family worked well because even shitty fathers at the very least valued their children as laborers on the farm and depended on them.

Now, in an ancap world, men would value the lives of their kids. They'd have to since society wouldn't give them a check every month and the economy wouldn't be stable enough for a childless man to be secure in his retirement. Such a world would be good. The main problem is "how do you get there?". If you want to retain aspects of your ancap values(eg freedom) when it comes to abortion, then you'll be sacrificing the future you want just so that current society can slightly reflect your ideals at the price of your ideals ever coming into fruition.

Now, that being said, you SHOULD want abortion banned. That's a necessary prerequisite to an ancap future since that eliminates much of the political competition you face and it makes men become heads of households again(i.e. what you need in order for an ancap future to be possible). Even if you change the laws in the future, you can't get there with abortion legal now because it creates the political and social conditions that fight against your ancap future.

Here's what you need to have an ancap civilization:
1) Men at the heads of households(possible by banning abortion)
2) Men valuing their offspring(possible by legalizing child labor and crushing unions)
3) Men relying on their offspring for survival(possible by creating laws that children have to pay for their parents)
With those 3 things, your values have a shot at becoming reality on a broader scale.

It goes farther than this.

Due to various forms of baby Moses laws, women have the defacto legal right to abandon their children post-birth. Zero legal consequences. Zero requirement to inform the father. Zero requirement to give any information to any authority.

If we cared about consistency at all (which we dont) this should allow men to voluntarily relinquish their parental rights.

We have decided that sex isnt any kind of implicit agreement to reproduce. Women dont make their choice at conception.

While women have the right to decide what they do with their bodies, so should men have the right to choose what is done with theirs. If sex isnt an implicit decision to reproduce, men should not be enslaved by that decision any more than women are.
I would also say that men should also lose the ability to abandon their parental responsibilities at some point... but we have already decided society will bear the burden for children women abandon.

Equality should suggest the same for males...but we arent equal.

Our society only cares about mens willingness to bear responsibility. That's it.

I mean, it takes two to tango buddy

YOUR BODY YOUR PROBLEM

"my body my choice" as a "movement" is a copout to personal responsibility for their actions and behavior, thats all, end of story. Don't get came inside, use protection. Or yknow, BE A FUCKING ADULT and have some self control that you were obviously never taught by your nonexistent father figure.

Dumb cunts.

Incels up in this thread like flies on shit.

>Due to various forms of baby Moses laws, women have the defacto legal right to
Yeah, but that doesn't make killing newborns legal.

> should allow men to voluntarily relinquish their parental rights.
No we shouldn't. That would lead to a massive welfare state forming since a lot of men would try to get out of fatherhood.

>We have decided that sex isnt any kind of implicit agreement to reproduce
No we haven't.

>While women have the right to decide what they do with their bodies, so should men have the right to choose what is done with theirs.
2 wrongs don't make a right.

>Our society only cares about mens willingness to bear responsibility. That's it.
Its the price you pay for wanting sex. If you don't like it, then don't have sex. You have the right to not have sex.

If you try to get the girl to abort your kid, then you can bet your ass that the legal system will bend you over a barrel.

It's such bullshit. You can also make an argument if you're a man and you have to pay child support money. "My money my choice" If I don't want to pay the money, then I should have the right to abort the kid.

You clearly don't understand the real issue. They want legal abortion so that they can have the upper hand in family law. Those feminists aren't pushing for abortion because they want to kill kids. They want abortion legal so that, if they're in court with the father of their kid, they can beat him by proving that he wanted the kid aborted.

Why don't you read some of the comments in this thread?

If you want sex with a woman, then its your responsibility too if she gets pregnant. If you don't want the kid born, then you deserve to be parted from your money.

Ok, since there's clearly some feminist shills ITT, I have 1 message for y'll: post your tits.

What does not wanting babying killing have to do with welfare?

Right. You can think that. All I'm saying is, if the woman get to choose if their kid gets born or not, so should the man. What happened to equal rights

"My body, my choice"

I have never disagreed with that statement.

I just have never agreed with the implementation of what follows.

If the woman chooses to carry to term or have an abortion - her choice.

The father should get some say in the matter though. It takes TWO people to create the child. Why aren't men treated to some rights as to how things will work out?

A women's 9 months is not equal to a man being treated as a third class citizen and being financially on the hook for 18-22 years (I have seen women go after fathers for post secondary schooling and win)

Their needs to be a new equality brought to the table.

>Right. You can think that. All I'm saying is, if the woman get to choose if their kid gets born or not, so should the man.
That would just result in a bunch of kids getting aborted due to forced abortion. Also, abortion really fucks up women mentally. Not only that, your idea that forced abortion should be legal also actually does fuck with the body of the woman against her will. Abortion should be illegal. Also, you have a responsibility to the rest of the country and to future generations to reproduce. Stuff like SS can't survive without reproduction.
>What happened to equal rights
It already exists. You have the right to not engage in sexual relations with a woman.

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Women's bodies belong to their parents... until they get married. From then on their body belongs to the husband. If this is true, no man should also have to pay child support.

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>The father should get some say in the matter though.
He did when he consented to sex with the woman. If a man gets a woman pregnant due to her raping him, then he's not responsible for the child.

If get what you're trying to do. Like a lot of other faggy Reddit cucks, you're trying to promote the idea of legalized forced abortion. Abortion should be illegal.

Now that we know you're playing dirty, lets point this all back at you...
Did you cry in court when the "lying whore" told the judge how you tried to get her to abort your kid? How much child support do you pay every month, faggot? So what betrayed you in court? Was it your emails? Text messages demanding she kill your kid? Or was it testimony from her friends/family telling the judge/jury what you said? Maybe, instead of posting on here about your fantasies of forcing women to kill your kid(s), you should be working harder so you can pay more child support to your kids you tried to kill. They need new shoes and backpacks, deadbeat.

If you can't stand it that woman can rape you in court because you wanted them to kill your child, then you should deepthroat a revolver. You'll NEVER get legalized forced abortion no matter how often you bitch about it since, at the end of the day, no one really gives a fuck about the winnings of shitty men who tried to get out of fatherhood.

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>abortion really fucks up women mentally
that explains liberalism

That only works so long as men value the lives of their kids and grandkids and that only happens when their survival and prosperity are linked. You can't have your ideals in a world with government welfare because shitty men will ALWAYS try to get out of fatherhood.

>that explains liberalism
It actually does more than you realize. See

For all the MRAs: You fuck a girl, you're consenting to becoming a father. Everyone knows women lie.

no but if they want to kill their own children feel free!
fucking disgusting double standards
i make life miserable for cunts wherever I find them and whenever I can
bitch i know got an abortion and i shamed her so hard she blocked me on social media

Sorry, either abortion disappears completely or I as a man should get access to it same as women. Besides, it will make women think twice about being sluts if they know the man also has the power to abort the baby if he wants. When a man accidentally gets a woman pregnant, she gets the complete power to decide for him that he will become a father. That's simply not fair imho

bullshit.

>or I as a man should get access to it same as women
No you shouldn't. Also, you need to work harder since your kids need more child support money.

Also, the emotional border of an abortion I'm sorry is nothing compared to the emotional burden of having a kid you don't want

And if you're one of those liberal bitches who wants to have the right to abortion but doesn't want to men to have it, then that just proves that you want to use children to exercise power over men. Great moms you are

>"their body"

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This.
I sure as hell don't want my taxes going to some slut that's dumb enough to get knocked up by some roody-poo that gaps it on her. Why should everyone else pay for their lack of foresight and responsibility?

Bruh you want some coathangers?

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/thread

Bbc

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Logically not connected the way you suggested, but you could try it with: "If this is true, no man should fuck a woman without getting a vasectomy first, if he's not willing to risk, impregnating a woman, not opting for abortion on his wish."

If woman hates her husband and can't live with him, then by her hatred, disgust and repulse of her MAN should not have any right over his disgusting depression-giving bad MONEY TOO.