Daily reminder: Socialism has never once succeeded in the entire history of mankind. Never

Meh....neither does your Communism ya ruský bastard.

Neither has this thread

your daily sage

Based
Cringe

>actual liberal argument
No wonder you lost 2016

We pay more money for less healthcare than pretty much the rest of the civilized world. Single payer is the obvious way to go, what is your disagreement?

Daily reminder: people turn to Socialism when capitalism fails.

Daily reminder: return to /pol/ and never come back

Daily reminder
Social Programs != Socialism

Imagine being this scared of a pretty, young Latina. God she makes me hard.

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I can literally name 10, and they're all richer per capita than the United States, cumforbrains

Catalonia

No you can't. You can name 10 European countries with strong social nets. There is no state ownership of business. And in cases like Finland, the are going broke and the whole government just had to resign. It is working so well there.

Additional reminder. You get totalitarianist reactions when the people call for socialism and social justice. Just look at this shit hole of a website. XD

Guys, when will the US finally get a national health plan?

Nazi Germany

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China.

Also, no nation is 100% this or that, it's not how the world works. Not even China is full on communist anymore.

What you're looking for doesnt exist. The free market dictates this.

Daily reminder that Americans have no idea what socialism is.

Not socialist. They dropped the socialist agenda when they kicked the Strasser brothers out of the party before they even came to power. Just because socialist was in the party name doesn't mean they were socialist.

China also refuses to give up its "developing nation" status and probably lies about their numbers as they do for their emissions numbers. Also there are are big red flags thatthe chinese economy is about to collapse.

Yes that’s correct, if you go full blown socialism it doesn’t work. If you’re in the US, we’ve been living quasi socialist for nearly a century. So moral of the story is moderation.

China is closest to a success story, but the common people are poor and starving. Is that what you want. The only equality in the communist/socialist agenda is equality of suffering.

so you're going to let the achievements down to capitalism huh?

Multiple economically beneficial cities got targeted by the Allies, and got absolute beatings, Hamburg for one. The Nazi economy stayed strong until late 1944

Unlike the allies, no German women needed to be recruited to the workforce. to keep non-War related industries running.

after the war, the allies recruited the best Nazi scientists to put man on the moon.

You'll hand all that over to capitalism and right-wingers hey? Socialism sure is shit

Isn’t that larger safety net exactly what aoc is talking about? I haven’t ever heard her say govt should take control of production.

Imagine being American
Imagine falling for their party duality
Mutilated debtslave cuck

Socialism works and its nice to not have to work so hard here in california. I quit my fast food hours so I can stay home and collect. Fuck serving ungrateful customers at fast food. I have my EBT card and I love it. I dont even have to do shit but just stay home and xbox all day. Oh yah, love gettin high and shit. Keep working your ass off so I can collect bitches. Btw im black. The harder you work and buy yourself expensive stuff the easier it becomes mine. Robbing white bois when they are at work is easy af.

They were extreme Nationalist. If fact the first true White Nationalists. That is what we need here, a strong White Nationalist president.

No, she only wants enough control to completely shift every company in the US to 0 fossil fuel and refit every building for solar/wind usage over the period of a decade

yeah all those WN's following suit on the Jewish Austrian School Lassiez Faire capitalism.

Im white and do this fuck working hard. Hard work did nothing but fuck my back up, now i just smoke weed and play video games.

That is exactly what she is talking about with health care and energy production, also with education.

As if any dickbag in this thread can give an accurate definition of governmental success.

Let's see after the right wing tri-partite wins the elections, you cuck

The projected cost of everything AOC offered in the GND (except the impossible stuff) would cost mver 50% of our GDP every year

? Now your just talking shit

Unless you mean a strange twisted version of "rich"

The US has the largest economy the world has ever seen. Period

China is second and even they have a long way to go

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It is mathematically impossible you fucking retard.

China owns so much debt the world over that several other nations economies would have to collapse for China to even be threatened economically.

Highest GDP growth out of the whole world over the last decade.

Yeah but our GDP is no longer backed by our industrial manufacturing.

Every economist will tell you it's only a matter of time since they surpass us because of manufacturing alone.

Also if that graph represented the debt owed to China along side it, it would negate any "pro" sense of the U.S. analytics.

he said state, you retard

If you think nazi Germany was a socialist country you really need to go read a book

Hell go read mein komf and see what Hitler though about leftists. They were all ruthlessly purged from the party

I bet you think North Korea is a democracy because it's called the democratic peoples republic of Korea

Go read your economics text book again debt is still part of your economy

You mean... Necessary facets of daily life that shouldn't be privatised?

You're an actual brainlet if you think totally privatized education ia the way to go. I have a strong nagging feeling you're one of the byproducts of the shitty US public education system. But hey. It's not your fault you're retarded. All those cuts to education budgets are.

Things you must never have heard of:
> Firefighters
> Police officers
> US Army

All of these are socialist constructs. The people as a whole chip in via taxes so all these things can exist.

B-but da nordic countries!!!

With the way economies are globalized no it wouldn't. When one big one like the US goes over the edge they will collapse the rest.

Chinas wealth was do to having cheap labor but with more and more people entering the middle class, wages have to rise and they already have

Eventually china will have to switch to a service economy like we did all those years ago

Their growth is already starting to slow

Also we are talking about right now not 50 years in the future. In either case the USA is still a larger economy.

daily reminder: OP is always a faggot

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whose economies really arent doing that well.

Sweden actually started privatizing all their shit in the 1970's and it took until the early 2000's for their economy to have a net gain in employment

I actually believe in home schooling. Higher education should be privatized because I don't trust the government and their indoctrination. As for health care do you really want the government deciding what procedures you need and don't?

Who are the Zapatistas?

Social market economy such as the german model only works if your budget is balanced and youre one of the richest societies in the world
Designing a social system should include duress - a system that needs wealth to function will fall apart in its first crisis
Watch and learn, during the next couple decades, Germany will fail in two major areas
1. Remain the location of choice for industry
2. Keep the social divide to a minimum
Why? Both are interconnected. The less powerful your economy, the higher the % of gdp that you need to fulfill the "social" in social market economy. The more of gdp you need to put into social services, the less you can reinvest in roads, hospitals, education, security
Building a functional social system on wealth that was created by slavery capitalism is easy. Decorating one self with laurels for doing so is retarded. Building a system that works REGARDLESS of societies wealth is the true challenge and free market capitalism combined with a militaristic nation has proven to be the one that creates wealth the fastest
Tl;dr: stop using social market economy as an argument for socialism and start to see it for what it is: an obvious argument for imperialism

Correct
Democracy stops working once the population funds its life through the public treasury
Its simply not the governments or states responsibility to feed you. Its responsibility is to protect you and your property, to build roads and hospitals and to educate your children
Using public funds for social handouts is the beginning of the end because it forces the state to "invest", or better divert, huge sums of money to feed clothe and house the population in times of crisis. This deepens the crisis as the population doesn't have a direct incentive to radically change the way the economy works - daddy government is paying for it
Up until daddy government cant pay for it any longer. Thats when mayhem starts, usually leading to an authoritarian government

There is partial state ownership of business though, f.e. germany holds tins of shares in companies such as rail and delivery of postage

Poor mexicans living in the woods and hills whose kids should really just leave those villages because theyll never amount to anything other than corn farmers
Im sorry man but you cant romanticise that stuff too much

neither has pure capitalism. what's your point?

I still can't believe that some Americans do not believe in a national health care system.

Medical bills are a huge cause of bankruptcy. Wouldn't it be better to have some type of system to prevent horrible disease from screwing you over financially?

We all know that private health insurance will take your payments for years and then bail on you as soon as they see anything expensive.

Incorrect. They didn't even last 50 years. Kentucky has lasted longer than Nazi Germany. Let that shit sink in.

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We are 20 trillion dollars in debt. We literally cannot afford it until dipshits stop crying about Amazon charging sales tax.

That answer is defeatist, in my book. Yes, we have debt and we all know health care is expensive. But other countries seem to do it and often better and cheaper than we do. So, start there.

My guess is that politicians don't really feel the need to fix it since they ironically are the beneficiaries of socialized medicine. Maybe if they are forced to use the laws they come up with, they'll be more inclined to actually do something.

>name a successful capitalist state?
USA

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That's not socialism, that's called social market economy. It was invented in Germany 1948/49 by the christian conservative party under Adenauer, against the votes of the socialists who didn't want a market economy at all.

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>All of these are socialist constructs.
You seem to lack a few bits of knowledge about socialism.

>invading countries for muh oil
We don't have to argue for imperialism here.

Daily Reminder: There is absolutely no reason America or any other country has to follow the same model of "socialism" adopted by countries of past generations.

Socialism doesn't succeed in the history of mankind? Well luckily we're smart enough to actually read our fucking history. We can fucking invent. We can fucking innovate and improvise. You know what else hadn't succeeded in the history of mankind? A cure for smallpox. Internet. Mobile phones and electricity. Claiming that history has deemed we fail is the culmination of human stupidity. It is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we constantly strive for.

Instead of socialism will fail, at least they're fucking trying to make something more successful than what we have, which is the idea in the first place you numb fuck.

Exactly. It's all about identifying problems and finding improvements or even solutions.

These "anti-socialism" arguments always boil down to "muh taxes" and nothing else. If you ran a government based on that, you'd end up like Somalia.

Even capitalism sooner or later

Go to sleep Oleg

not him, but care to explain how anti-trusts are capitalistic?

I hope China takes over the west, they might be communist but they reject all the "progressive" crap that the west has fallen into. they deserve to take over.

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Nice troll, fgt.

Of course the US doesn't need to follow the same model of socialism adpoted by countries of past generations - they never managed to create any sort of raise in living standards for the populace.
That's sort of the point though, we shouldn't adopt traditional socialism. However, if you or someone else invent a new type of economical system substantially different to socialism, that would be an -ism of its own.

OP only point out that socialism, as in the socialism that has been adapted over and over by nations in history, does not work.

Secondly, yes, we can probably invent an economical system compatible with our democratic society that is superior to the typical mixed economy, but how can we implement something that isn't even conceived of yet?

The only thing that is absolutely clear as of now is that socialism tends to hinder creative endeavours, create shortages and become corrupt due to trade and industry being owned in a monopoly by politicians.
Capitalism has singlehandedly cut global poverty by 50% in 20 years. It may not be perfect but it obviously works better.

Also,
"Claiming that history has deemed we fail is the culmination of human stupidity."
History hasn't deemed we fail, but we'd be stupid not to LEARN from history and be extremely cautious with implementing an economical system with a 0% success rate so far.

When scientist perform the same experiment over and over again to try and invent something, they learn from the failed attemps and develop the theoretical background to raise their chances of success for the next experiment. That is how any hard science works, but something socialism and marxism lack - there have been no substantial changes in socialist theory since Marx.

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Daily reminder: universal healthcare is not socialism. This is something republitards fail to understand on a daily basis.

socialism has never existed you fag.. its usually facist dictatorships under the name of socialism..

read actual socialist theory before spewing diarrhea on fourchan.. also, Scandinavian cuntrys have strong socialist policies and they are working out just fine..

USA just wont implement these same policies even though the wealth is already there because of the type of people who will benefit..

>Nazi germany was socialist because it's in the name

Just like DPRK is democratic. Gotcha

>I don't trust the government and their indoctrination

You're probably the kind of retard that thinks that a monopoly is impossible in a free market system because of ToO mUcH cOmPeTiTiOn.

pay your own medical bills you lazy fuck.

I don't have to since it's free where I live. But go ahead and take an uber to the ER if you want.

What is not socialist about the collective funding of a state-owned service?

Exactly. North Korea is a leftist utopia.

You will make a system in which doctors services are nationalized
Its a pipedream to have a society in decay where everyone has access to healthcare. Its not possible. Its a promise that sounds good on papers and appeals yo voters but thats it.
See, im from Germany. We have state healthcare but we have a two class system. Basic provisions for everyone - so if you get smashed in an accident or have a brain tumor they sew you back up and let you die in a hospital. Thats nice, thank you, state.
Thosr that are better pff pay for the good stuff -, actual prevention of medical issues, perfect dental care (not just putting a plaster on it) and so on.
Youll always have that because some are worth more than others.
What happens to old people though? At what point do you still operate, still fix the hips still invest resources? Until your resources are depleted. Until your doctors move abroad because they earn shit and do stupid amounts of work. Youre insured until you arent

>The delusion

Neither has communism

impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/

ITS FREE
DUDE RETHINK WHAT YOU SAY

Call me crazy, but I'd rather pay into higher taxes and have better coverage for myself and everyone in the nation with less administrative overhead than to pay into health insurance every week just to be told the insurance company doesn't think an MRI is warranted because a potential brain tumor or aneurysm isn't life threatening enough.

Spotted the biggest fgt ever. Take your Socialism and start a commune with a few like minded people, see how long you last.

We pay taxes. You pay taxes. Our roads are free to drive on, and so are yours. Everyone knows it's not LITERALLY free you moron. Dead argument.

I pay taxes. Your burger flipping job doesn't pay enough to get over the standard deductible, so you get it back and I have to carry your dead weight.

Ah yes, you're literally Jeff Bezos and I'm a bum. Good argument buddy.

>literally
I wish. No, just a hard working American, unlike you.

You're right, I'm not American.

Then your opinion is worthless. Good day.

It did , in Milwaukee. So put on your big boy pants and type Milwaukee socialist the nation, or look up the speech where he called it a socialist city in America. Then look up catalonia. Then look up automonus regions and commues through out history. Then shoot yourself for shitposting on the Internet.

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And the Hard Working American™ signed out.

I live in the UK and trust me; you don't want national healthcare.

The government uses it as an excuse to tax EVERYTHING. The threat of the NHS going bankrupt has given them free reign to tax anything fun. Last year they introduced a "sugar tax". We now have to pay an extra 24p (roughly 32cents) on every litre of soft drink we buy. A packet of 20 cigarettes now costs the equivalent of $14-15 (and they made it illegal to sell anything smaller than a pack of 20).

It's all done under the premise of "smokers are the biggest drain on the NHS with all their horrible diseases, they should be the biggest donators". A fact that simply isn't true; smokers are actually LESS of a drain on the economy; dying young means they don't collect social security and they don't spend their elderly years in and out of hospital for all the myriad of shit that old people end up contracting.

And because there's no competition, the actual service is complete shit. The current average waiting time is 18 weeks for non-urgent matters. The average person doesn't even have the option of going private because it's such a niche market here, no insurance provider has the opportunity to drive down any of their costs

Way to include the necessary population numbers too fgt.

>butthurt fag fag detected
Yes, nice things cost money. You're not a poor country.

No system is perfect, but I'd be ok with more taxes on cigs and booze in exchange for being afraid of getting sick and LITERALLY becoming bankrupt because an insurance company accountant didn't feel like treating my cancer despite me paying my premiums for years.

The health system in the US has zero upside.

I get it but here's where you're wrong: you think the nationalized healthcare system wouldn't tell you the same a private one would. It does, all the time.
Example: my mom died of cancer at 45 yet i cant do relevant tests, covered by health insurance, until im 35 years old. A private insurance would obviously cover it but its so expensive compared to the nationalized one that ill just wait it out.
Free healthcare is a slogan, a pipedream to appeal to voters who wouldn't be able to afford basic necessities otherwise. Guess what - the able will be paying for those guys, and for themselves. A system in which a persin that choses to be obese has the same access and quality of care than a person who choses to be fit.
Also, its all fun and games as long as your country is prosperous and powerful but it all falls apart once your population is at an average of 60 years of age

There is a grand part of society that foesnt pay yaxes yet has the same access to those services AND gets to vote in then, thus exercising the same political power as those who fubd their life. Funny, isn't it?

ITT: New data for the Russia propaganda force.

You have the option of paying for your own unnecessary tests. Just because you think you're an outlier doesn't mean the system is broken.

The fuck

Nah those are the crypto shills.

>National healthcare
>less administration

What are you smoking? In no scenario are you going to see reduced admin and increased quality in your healthcare becoming nationalized.

The healthcare companies are in competition witch each other. If they have too much admin or their quality of service falls too low, customers will go to another provider. With nationalized healthcare you just have one service. One service staffed by people who's best interest is to get as much money from the government as possible. Admins are not going to fire themselves if they find out the job can be done more efficiently and with fewer people. They'll just come up with bullshit red tape to justify their jobs.

And typically, we're shoehorned into whatever health insurance our jobs provide. Gets even better when you get too sick to work, and lose insurance coverage as a result, along with your source of income.

>The healthcare companies are in competition witch each other

Actually, I don't believe this to be true at all. Many people only have one choice, maybe two, and even in that, there's enormous collusion.

To the insurers, the free market is simply an open cash-grab and they are actually incentivized by the market to deny people, which can be a death sentence. Trading people's lives for bigger profits.I think this would at least be minimized if it was a national system.

You guys must be real fucking terrified of this cow.

I am pretty sure you aren't a billionaire either, STFU.

Poorfag

Quality of life is pretty high in the following countries:
France
Germany
Norway
Sweden
Denmark
Finland
Switzerland
UK
Canada

Whatever those countries all have in common, we should all strive for that.

Socialism has the best chance to succeed in the US because there’s no US to come in and install a right wing dictator

Underrated post of the decade

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imagine being this uneducated.

this.

true, but they only had success when tapping into the capitalist world and playing their game

Nah they should be like us, except with less amount of jackasses in our streets and government

FAKE NEWS! eveyone knows 70% of the people who collect welfare are white. Nice try false flagging us into hating niggers, ull have better luck posting on /pol/

very well explained.

I'm chilean, venezuela for us is a big, big cautionary tale. and i'm not even considering the more that half a million venezuelans that inmigrated here in the last 5 years and we are just 17.000.000 inhabitans

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youtube.com/watch?v=M4xmJ_IU1Jg