People with "work ethic" are the worst. You're a fucking slave and you take pride in it. I'm not talking about the 0...

>You faggots listen to OP at all? OP is talking about the faggots with their heads so far up the brass' ass they fill their daily caloric intake that way. They make life which is already shit for everyone worse.
WTF..fucking crackhead KYS

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agreed

Ahh I'm sorry I didn't realize you were absolutely completely fucking retarded.

Helplessness leads to apathy.

You stopped caring because the status quo was too strong, and you needed to eat, and you wanted to buy a nice house.

And you're not going to live very long anyway.

Learn English you fucking nigger..fucking tard

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OP is a trust fund baby who will never have to work. pathetic.

>OP is a trust fund baby who will never have to work. pathetic.
rattle them shackles nigga..lol

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I'm sure you are triggered. You started the thread.
Also you didn't deny my supposition. You don't have to work because you come from Old Money. You are skating along with no effort. Laughing at folks who struggle to live is bad karma. Die in a fire.

Rent has risen 60% relative to income since the 1960s. Healthcare costs are skyrocketing. We work harder and earn less every year. We have to spend more to survive every year. Your parents went to college for nothing and bought homes for spare change. Upward mobility is decreasing. You have zero socioeconomic leverage, zero political power, zero say.

You're unimaginably cucked. Words do not do it justice. Step back for a moment and look at the trajectory you're on.

More and more jobs require degrees, and those jobs pay less and less, and those degrees cost more and more. We have a more educated, more competent workforce today, and that workforce is getting poorer, not richer. Your individual competence has nothing to do with it, our situation today is the result of macroeconomic forces - there is a socioeconomic power imbalance. The more power the rich have - the employers, the job creators - the less they have to pay you. It's that simple.

you know what happens when you hire people without a work ethic?

pic related happens.

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my boomer dad once compared people to ants and bees working for a colony
it was supposed to be in a positive light too
why the fuck did they bring me into existence if it's all just work workity work muh bootstraps

>It's that simple.
And you solution is...?

You know what happens when people with a work ethic work for low wages? That becomes the new wage for people with work ethics.

>why the fuck did they bring me into existence if it's all just work workity work muh bootstraps
Then neck yourself before you become a burden on the rest of us. We're already toting all the niggers and illegal spicks.

pretty sure it's a form of labelling something that actually exists, so, those people just think that they got there without doing the work and are better at it than others

and that's why you’re a fucking slave nigga cause you’re too fucking dumb to even realise I didn't start this thread and your anger comes from knowing you being exploited by others but you’re too fucking stupid to do anything about it..must be shit being you..lol

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It is so easy to make a lot of money today. Make a degree in a public college, that gives you good opportunities. It was never easier to be rich at 25 from nothing by being a Programmer, Mathematician, Physicist or an engineer, or a lot more. Fuck off with your art degree, then crying you make less than your fucking dad. You major petrol engineering in a shitty public college in the closest city and you auto start at 100k/year. Mathematicians, Physicist make 80k/year at day 1 with minimum effort. Programmers more.

Fuck off to mcdonalds with your spanish degree and cry for 15/hour for flipping burgers.

I will be sure to eradicate the whole of humanity before I do such a thing.

Edgy.

I stay alive out of spite, you faggots reap what you sow

trolled epic style xd

Because the problem is caused by a power imbalance, the solution is political.

We can vote, we can organize, and that might work. Wealthy elites control both our dominant parties (and the associated media outlets), but it's worth a shot. Vote for people with leftist economic platforms, promote class consciousness among your fellow citizens, and see what happens.

Voting might not be enough, but the alternative is very frightening.

I am a PhD candidate working in biophysics.

>your anger comes from knowing you being exploited by others but you’re too fucking stupid to do anything about it..must be shit being you..
It's not about me, and I'm not angry. We're talking about how OP defines society. Living in mommy and stepdaddys basement is all he aspires to. As long as they buy him tendies and keep the WIFI flowing all he has to do all day is troll people that are so selfish as to support their own needs. All this bitchin and whinin for OP or you reinforces how deep the commies infiltrated the public school system. Here's your participation trophy.

Then why are you writing bullshit like that?

how old are you

>Then neck yourself before you become a burden on the rest of us. We're already toting all the niggers and illegal spicks.
Fuck you you ignorant fucking slave you think you are some great fucking saviour of the world you hate your miserable fucking life and blame it on others if you don't like it then you user you brainwashed moron..they got you boy and you too dumb to see it faggot.

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everything today is more unrealistic than it is to live in a good place
by supporting that you support ignorance, and are probably a bad person because of lack of time investment in self

>It's not about me, and I'm not angry. We're talking about how OP defines society. Living in mommy and stepdaddys basement
yeah it's about you cause you know fuck all about OP you presumptuous cunt..fuck you

>the alternative is very frightening.
Huh, so they told you to get a job or get out? That's the way it's been since caveman days. You're a slacker thinking the world owes you free anything. I suggest you buy a one way bus ticket to your favorite socialist dream country.

I had to start flipping burgers at 16, all the way through finishing uni. Now Im a 28 y old nuclear physicist making 130k/year working 40 hour weeks, because I had the drive to work my ass off for a few years. "Big bad government making me poor" is just bullshit from art degree idiots.

I completely agree. Seeing all these brain dead morons telling you to grow up is funny.

They are slaves. They MUST be at their place of employment. They CANNOT live how they want.

And all of this, because they're too afraid of the unknown. They will sacrifice the best years of their life, all so they can be guaranteed a place to sleep and food. It's the definition of fear. They don't know how to live for themselves. I truly thank God everyday I'm not like that. I hated every job I ever had. It's so constricting to do menial chores and pretend like you are fine. Then you buy more shiny things to distract you from your sad life. Then you wake up one day amd you're gonna be 50 and realize your best years are behind you lol good luck with that.

I started going into business for myself. It's really nice knowing that whatever I put in, I get out. I travel when I want. I sleep however late I want. Its my life. And all you cucks are so afraid of the unknown, that you'll never even dare entertain the thought of TRUE FREEDOM. Cause lemme tell you faggots, working 9-5 for 50 years ain't it, no matter how you wanna dice it. It's what losers do.

So good luck feeling like a "man" and slaving away for some CEO lol what a fucking life you lemmings live.

And yet how come there are frequently poor people that live fulfilling lives and median income people that are absolutely miserable...

I am not saying that this holds true for everyone, but of all the people I know it seems the poorer ones generally are happier/more social. Meanwhile a lot of middle income people seem to be totally stressed and more unhappy than happy...

From my experience the most happy people are the poor or very rich.

What's your business

>Fuck you you ignorant fucking slave you think you are some great fucking saviour of the world
Wow, you are triggerred. Show me on the doll where Trump hurt you?
>you hate your miserable fucking life and blame it on others
You are projecting your self loathing. My life is just fine. You the one thinking there's a problem and expecting someone else to make it all better. I think you need a nap.

In science, we have a concept called "dynamic equilibrium"

Imagine a wall with holes in it. On one side, we have young children throwing balls at the holes. On the other side, we have a few skilled teenagers throwing balls back. Over time, the number of balls on either side of the wall will tend toward a constant ratio.

Individuals can succeed, but the structure of the system ensures that there will always be a large underclass of people who will not succeed, who can never succeed, who will languish at the bottom of society until they die.

We are at dynamic equilibrium now. This disastrous inequality what our system tends towards. People are earning degrees, it doesn't matter. The structure of our economy demands that, no matter the individual competencies of the population, the goalposts will shift and a useful underclass of helpless workers will remain available to the ruling class.

cant argue with anecdotal bullshit

the alternative is revolution, which is a huge gamble, can result in all kinds of regressive post-revolutionary systems, and in the case of the US could plunge the entire planet into geopolitical turmoil.

>from my experience the most happy people are the poor or very rich

mental health statistics, drug use statistics, and crime statistics all disagree.

Go to the ghetto and observe happiness.

Doesnt matter. The point is that you can become at least upper-middle by making a completely obvious choice, that depends completely on you. Not makeing that right choice then crying because others are keepeing you down is just pathetic.

You realize only 5% of those people actually get those jobs, right?

>I started going into business for myself. It's really nice knowing that whatever I put in, I get out. I travel when I want. I sleep however late I want. Its my life. And all you cucks are so afraid of the unknown, that you'll never even dare entertain the thought of TRUE FREEDOM.
So you panhandle at a freeway entrance, and "The UNKNOWN" is the name of your cardboard box?

>not even trying to argue
faggot you automatically lose the moment you stop arguing

You miss 100% of the shots you dont take - Wayne gretsky- Michael scott

Post your paycheck you fucking liar

>hurr derr chef at wendys

Fake and gay

being trolled so hard..spot the gross dumb old fag..lol

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When Walmart opens a new store in a small town, it sells its goods below market value - at a loss - until the local businesses close. It then immediately raises prices again.

When a company has enough money and power, it can rig the game in its favor. This works against smaller companies, against communities, and against individuals (i.e. you).

This also illustrates the mechanism of dynamic equilibrium in our economy. People are constantly starting small businesses, and occasionally these are able to grow and become large businesses, but the large businesses are also constantly destroying small businesses. It is always possible for an individual or a company to succeed, but on a societal scale a certain structure is maintained.

what 5%. have a degree in any of the dubject Ive listed and if you are nto a complete retard, you have a decent job right after you graduate. Easy as that.

I own 14 online retail stores. Most of them are complete garbage (though I am working to fix that), but 2 of them bring in between $3-7k a month, depending on the time of year.

I struggled without food, shelter, and love (wife left me) just so I wouldn't have to work for someone else. I value freedom over everything in this life. When I first started making $500 a month from my biz, I felt like I had everything lol I travelled cheap and I travelled far. It was heaven...and it still is! But wouldnt you know? Some of my friends back home are so in denial, that they really feel pity for me haha I just look at them, knowing they wake up at 5am to make someone else rich, and I realize just how conditioned they are to be worker bee's. It's teuly quite sad. I am the happiest I've ever been and I dont buy things to do that. I travel and just simply live. Most money I bank away and invest.

>So you panhandle at a freeway entrance, and "The UNKNOWN" is the name of your cardboard box?
lmfao..

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>the alternative is revolution, which is a huge gamble
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again - The Who said it decades ago. You are a willing puppet to the New Overlords. How does Putin's asshole taste?

Yikes. This is the kinda shit that I'm talking about. Yeah kiddo, sure I did. Enjoy working the rest of your life.

because when someone argues with "in my experience", and "people I know", what do you say to that?

Few ppl already said that all the statistics of physical/mental health, life fullfillment, etc shows that wealth have an obvious positive correlation to those. He then says "in my experience".

60% of the time it works every time

>boomer logic

Working for someone else is not the only option, user. But someone with your views undoubtedly lacks the work ethic to go it alone.

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I agree, and i'm not ashamed of it.

...

>I'm a stem major with work experience in a job market that doesn't want to pay enough for me to get a 1 bedroom apartment

Whatever you say, jackass

prolly biology or some other useless bullshit

Geophysics. Youre literally cancer.

>"Get a job so that you can pollute as much as we do!"

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they you indeed fall into the retard category, if you dont make at least 80k by the 3rd year

>inb4 you have to move to where the "jobs are"

It's possible to work under the existing system, do well for yourself, and still recognize that the existing system is an abomination.

Epic troll dude

what you do , experience, salary? Let me laugh please

Haha you really zinged him!!!

>thousands of people graduating every year with his same degree
>theyre just lazy

Pick one

Alright, so organize, become politically aware, join the rest of us trying to fight for economic justice under the democracy we have now.

You still havent posted your "nuclear physicist paycheck".

Money does buy happiness, up to $95k/year. After that it is a slide down the hedonic treadmill and into richfag penis envy

yep, thats what I thought, good night

Yeah, its your bed time, Terry.

Yes, people can do that.

We have been running the simulation on 300 million people for a few decades now, and the current wealth distribution is what this system tends toward.

have fun with your art degree, maybe go on another demonstration so you can make 15/h as a 40 y old mcdonalds burger flipper, lmfao

imagine supporting a society in which this is a common outcome for lots of people

when people major in female studies and art, please don tell me that anyone or any kind of system is keeping them down. They do it themselves.

Get a job nigger

>geophysics
>art degree

Epic troll dude You're like a nuclear physicist level trolling lol

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lol being lazy is for retards who care more about being comfortable than being happy.

enjoy working at mcdonalds when youre 53, the real problem is that you have political opinions tbh.

learn some self control, what are you going to do if you fall in love? how are you going to start a family and take care of the person you love with no savings? dont you want to like, be done working at some point? youre not a genious so its not like youre going to figure out some crazy secret to making tons of money that hasnt already been exploited to shit by people smarter than you with an ability to tolerate labor.

You act like we don’t know this shit? But my other options are to rob and steal or be homeless.... not to mention the people who built your phone/computer slaved so you could post something Like this lmao..

Its already happening. Ask the next waiter in a restaurant if they have a college degree. They all do and it wasnt to be a waiter lol

You literally dont even have to tell the truth. You cant even come up with a geophysicist position that doesnt pay enough to rent a 1 bedroom apartment.
Fuck off, please with your librarian degree

Anyone notice the influx of the elderly back in the workforce? I have.

>why waste life with a job, you should just be homeless in the winter without food
Damn really makes you think

I can't tell if this is a 2edge4me teenager, or a coastal town millennial whos parents / grandparents / family has money and has never had to really work for a living and preying for socialism to invade the states.

Thats fucking LIFE dumbass... We aren't living in the garden of eden. People do what they have to do to survive, and live comfortably. or you become a hobo, or find a cult commune to live in until you have to drink the kool-aid to sacrifice yourself for spider jesus.

You work for your goals, you work to make your life better, you fight to be the the best you can be. When you act like a spoiled, entitled cunt who expects everything to be given to them, people don't take you seriously.

What would happen if every American earned an engineering degree? Obviously, when you have 300 million engineers in a nation the market value of an engineer plummets.

Do you see that, in all these success scenarios, the common denominator is that a person becomes more valuable than the average person, and that the average person - merely by virtue of being average - must not earn high wages?

Pretty sure you have it backwards. People work and kill themselves in the pursuit of work, just so they won't have to worry about where they'll sleep. Doesn't make them happy. That's why they buy stupid shit and go onto debt for nice cars and homes. They sacrifice happiness for a comfy life. They won't dare to try and find a meaning to life outside of work.

So what? You're content to out in zero effort at anything you do? Sounds like just another edgy entitled millennial who is pissed off that they didn't get the promotion to shift leader at Burger King and the person who actually has work ethic did. Not you have to be reminded daily of your failure and inadequacy when you see them in a higher position of power. Seriously like others have said, grow the fuck up.

Yep, basic supply and demand. Too many people with degrees lowers the value of said degree. Its happening to nurses now too.

Work ethic isn't a bad thing no matter the circumstances.
I get what you're trying to say, but you're saying it in a shitty way, and your deserve all the salt coming to you because of your attitude.

Well you can either be a slave with a strong work ethic, or you can be fucking dead because you can't afford any food or shelter. My dad's dad generation, or my grandfather's generation didn't care about happiness in life because all they had time for was to make sure they could make a living without being tossed out onto the streets and dying of hunger.

When did he say that? He meant work as in a traditional 9-5, 40 hours a week gig. There are plenty of ways to make money and be your own boss.

This is what I mean by dynamic equilibrium. Even when everyone has an engineering degree, the structure of the economy itself demands that the average person does not do well. It's not about the competencies of individuals, it's about the power structure. The more power the rich have - the employers, the job creators - the less they have to pay you. These are the people who own the mines and oil wells, the factories, the warehouses, the online accounts of millions, the lobbyists and politicians. Over time, as these people have gained more power, the economic position of the average person has worsened. This is no coincidence.

then burger flipper positions would offer more.

Lets say you need 10 engineers, and 100 burger flippers in your country. There are 120 wannabe burger flippers and 5 wannabe engineers. Obviously the employer at one of them have to pay a lot more for people to go there right? Now if there were 50 engineers for 10 positions, and 75 burger flippers for 100 position, the wages for the jobs would be different. Do you understand?

Not all of the engineering majors would pursue careers/jobs in engineering because the engineering jobs would run out. People with engineering degress are super smart with technical/business/problem solving/math/teaching skills. A lot of those people or most of them would find jobs elsewhere. I mean, they're fucking engineers for fucks sakes.

Yes, of course, and it tends towards... a dynamic equilibrium. Which dynamic equilibrium? The one we're at now.

>Please don't say collecting cans
>mowing yards

Smfh

Trying to upset people because you can only empathize with yourself violates the EULA
(it is also retarded)
It's also not physically possible for humans to do *picks nose*
I mean it was, for awhile, but it's not anymore, idk what's wrong with y'all

I have a "work ethic" when I'm chopping wood for my furnace, I do it safe, I do it right, and have some fun. You can have a work ethic when doing ANYTHING. If everybody had work ethic nobody would get hurt or break anything. People that don't
have a work ethic are called lazy.

I haven't the faintest bother for what everybody else is rambling on about.

t. 4th generation farmer/mechanic

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Haha this right here is everything wrong with humanity. You're gonna wake up one day and realize you're old as fuck, and all you did was the same fucking routine, day in, day out. What if I told you, you can have shelter, food, happiness, and all the things that actually matter in life, without having to sacrifice your happiness and true purpose.

obviously not, because people flock to flip burgers for 5/hour, since there are 10 available jobs for 15 retards. But most stem degree positions are still in demand, because there are more jobs than applicants. This is not a hard concept to understand.

Yeah, like outside engineering, where they don't pay enough for you to qualify for a 1 bedroom apartment?

Lol

Let me elaborate. As engineers are devalued, burger flipper positions pay more, so some engineers become burger flippers (substitute in whatever other niche is underserved). Over time, We get a distribution of people with various educations serving in various capacities.

Throughout this process, at all times, the overall wealth distribution will not change. It might fluctuate, it might oscillate about its resting position, but it will come to rest. The basic law is that not everyone can be valuable, because being valuable necessarily means you are better than average. This is why the individual competencies of the population do not matter on a societal scale.

Come on now. Do you really think those are the only ways to be your own boss?

Have some creativity. Find what your good at, what you like doing, and monetize it.

Stop living in the city if you're gonna flip burgers. You can literally buy a home for 20k out in somewhere like ohio.

I m sorry, I dont fucking understand your point.

I'll reiterate my fundamental point:

Over time, as the rich have gained more power, the economic position of the average person has worsened, even as the average person has become more educated and more competent.

Did you get yelled at by an Indian tech support and drop your spaghetti?

...

Work provides your life, work doesn't have to be your life. You don't have to love your job, what you do outside of work is who you are. Fuck off kid.

thats literally not true at all. just because you might act like that doesnt mean everyone who has money does. youre a retard, youre literally describing someone with money who also doesnt know how to handle money. money is the value of another persons labor, not youre fucking nebulous moral view of Richie rich

Um okay

Yeah and commute 4 hours a day to work?

Oh, I'm flipping burgers? Bank won't finance me on 7.25 an hour, dumbass

>most people have student loans
>oh wait

I never said that that is not true. I said that there are simple life choices that you can make, which can automatically land you in at least the upper middle class even if you started out poor. As long as this statement is true, I dont give a fuck about 50 y old burger flippers with no perspective and 0 force of will to become something.

Shocking

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I /just realized/ that when people talk shit about wal-mart they're actually trying to get people to buy expensive coffee with designer cream in it

after each big technical revolution in the work place there are less jobs that require humans even shelf stackers will not be required soon.
youtube.com/watch?v=5iV_hB08Uns

So weird that everyone who stays put for a 9-5 have the same idea of who they want to be. Quit denying your innermost thoughts. Everyone desires freedom and the ability to do what they want. You wont get that by sucking for a drop of money milk from your bosses tit.

comparatively thats true, but in terms of purchasing power and quality of life its not true at all. a poor person in a developed country can be fat and have a ton of children, beyond that much quality of life wealth division is more a probelm as a signifier of a collapsing system than of human suffering.

Its 20k retard. You make a 4k down payment and then you pay the other 16k over a period of like 3 years. That's fucking nothing. Banks will finance you if you can prove you can afford it, and you most certainly can.

Happiness to you might mean something completely different than it does to me. I find happiness from travelling and moving at my own pace in life. If I wanna settle down in Northern Holland...then I will. If I wanna go camping for a month in Yosemite...then I will. If I wanna enjoy a nice lunch then go on a road trip....well...you get the point. I desire freedom over everything. That's just who I am. I struggled with my business for 3 years before I could make it all a reality. That's called work. But I was working for myself.

Lol a kid is developing a.i. to eradicate lawyers. Hes already got 160000 parking tickets dropped. He said next is divorce and even criminal law.

Doctors are soon obsolete as well

But that's objectively wrong. Purchasing power has gone up over time. Your average lower class shitter will have a TV, a computer and a smartphone, and probably ate himself into obesity. Compare that to a peasant at any point in time.

>4k down payment.

Fucking lel

too bad you need money for all of that, and a significant amount of it to boot. what country is going to let you immigrate broke and jobless? money *is* freedom. having money is being able to handle problems that come up without it ruining your life, like medical bills, or car crashes. the only thing you can do with no money is find someone to leech off of and have no ability to do anything outside of that. society has made it really really easy to make money, much easier than it was in the past. its a waste to not capitalise on it.,

Based.

Currently working for The Man making ho-hum money. I live "comfortably", but it's really more like I'm surviving comfortably. Also working on establishing an online business with a mind for a second in the future.

I do what needs to be done to keep the lights on, but I'm not living and won't be until I establish myself in the way that I need to.

Congrats on escaping the bullshit. Any tips for prospective entrepreneurs/online business?

20% down is standard.

>being this disconnected

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How the fuck are they going to get 4k making 300 a week?

i should have included this in the first post, but: if you already have money and dont need to work for it, then ideally you should be applying your labor to improve yourself, if youre not i dont really care about that as it doesnt burden me like a welfare person does but it is a little sad, because with like mild work ethic and free time, people can become so much. i fucking dream of being able to spend my time learning other languages and honing my ability to play music and spend time writing. one day hopefully.

It was early summer 2009 in London. I sat on a park bench and casually observed the passersby. A bloke sat down next to me, we struck up a conversation.

"You see that man walking down the street?".

I observed a man in work clothes, taking each step as if he was wearing cement boots. He walked doen the street into the setting sun.

"I have lived here for over 30 years, user. That man just lost his job as a street sweeper. He doesn't know how to live life outside of work, it's all he knows".

The story doesn't end there, but it's true, and that street sweeper is still wamdering the streets of London to this day.

>2.00 for a bell pepper 25 cals
>2.00 for a bag of chips and 5 packs ramen 5000 cals

Blaming poor people for being fat is retarded

That's 15600 a year. You can save 4k in 2 years easily, or 1 if you're extra cheap.

what about people who are so fucked up that they work incessantly to forget their own thoughts/issues/problems - despite not being too fond of jobs. always find this a fascinating paradox. thoughts?

I still need to work for my money. But there is a huge difference between working for someone else and being tied down to being your own boss and having the freedom to do what you want in life.

I make a little less money than most people my age, but I save the majority of what I do make. I have everything I need in life. That's what I wanted, and it wasn't possible by staying in one spot for 5 days a week for the rest of my adult life till I retired.

Being fat is a non issue. The point is that purchasing power is so high, the poor has access to too many calories. Remember how starvation was a thing for most of history?

That will always be true. Increasing the height of a basket does not prevent a person from scoring. Not until the height is beyond the maximum height a person can lob a basketball. But the higher the hoop, the fewer points will be scored during the course of the game.

What are the consequences, when the average person does less well? Do you think there are none?

What does that society look like? When a person has less dignity, does that person behave better or worse?

Does that person contribute more or less to the democratic process? We got democracy in the first place only when the landowning population had enough wealth and power to challenge the power of the aristocracy - and then it was only landowners who voted. Politics follows the existing power balance, not the other way around. When a few rich people own the country, this is reflected in political outcomes at all levels of our government. Democracy in practice begins to erode. We tend toward whatever political system most reflects the actual power balance at play, because this is the system that will minimize conflict, and minimizing conflict is the entire purpose of a political system.

What does it mean for our culture? Do you want to live in a society without dignity? Do you want to live in a society in which the default worth of a person is zero? What does that do to a culture? Look at India, where garbage piles up in the streets. This is where rampant class hierarchy leads. This is what a society without dignity looks like. No sense of community, widespread antisocial behavior. When you imagine our society's future, do you imagine a Black Friday sale?

Suicide rates are climbing. Political unrest is growing. There are consequences.

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I'm not even gonna lie. I live off my parents and im 35. There is no need for me to work but im really glad there are so many people that do it.

I get 200k a year from a family trust set up by my rich as grandpa lol i would kill myself if i had to ljve the life you guys do.

Its not that expensive to eat healthy. I can make healthy food for a month for way less then 10% of the average wage. The biggest problem with obesity is lack of exercise and being too lazy to cook your own food from scratch.

Anti-social behaviour

British mad lad confirmed

but thats not an argument against work ethic, thats literally why work ethic is so useful. the donglords who stay working retail forever so they can hopefully get middle management and 5 days of vacation per year are the people with no work ethic, they just go to work because they are obligated to and are content with scraping by.

>beans and rice are not the native diet of any mammal

What about economic security? What about the actual existential parameters that determine the quality of a person's life? Working harder for less pay. More financial fear. Less upward mobility.

Owning a television while you work like a slave, spend fewer and fewer hours with your kids, get fat and stressed and die at 62, this is exactly the same as being a peasant. Worse, the peasants ate better, had more leisure time, and lived in a more beautiful environment.

you are not talking about Iraqi millenials that just don't do any work but get themselves blown up by American drones?

Ah okay I see your point haha we're actually on the same page then. I completely agree.

>what about people who are so fucked up that they work incessantly to forget their own thoughts/issues/problems - despite not being too fond of jobs. always find this a fascinating paradox. thoughts?
bosses love them and exploit them and the muppets think they are a working class hero the saddest fuckers are those that win the lottery and go to work the next day and keep working, the brainwashing runs deep..

I watched a doc about a guy that won millions in the lotto and he went back to work as a garbage man lol so fucking pathetic that he can't live without work.

a moral analysis of an economic problem is interesting but ultimately subjective. unfortunately all systems that allow people to accumulate any kind of power inevitably become unstable as all power accumulates in one place. and thems the breaks. thats why every economic system eventually collapses. we wont reach any kind of sustainable stability until we dont need human labor for production and weath becomes something that isnt necessary for survival, and instead something thats used recreationally.

Hell yeah dude, you said it best. but that's just how I like it. I'll be damned if some bozo kid tells me how to have a work ethic. The only ones who don't have one are the manchildren who still live at home.

OP remember this post for your future. Screencap it print it and post it on every room you have in your house.

peasants also didnt have access to the sum totality of human knowledge instantly 24 hours a day and the ability to gain literally any skill they want for free, or gain it much easier for a relatively small amount of money that can be payed back in small increments years later. a peasant couldn't decide to travel to the opposite end of the country on a whim and start a new life there, or talk to thousands and thousands of people to gauge what will and wont work. upward mobility is always present, and jobs compete with eachother for your labor. the problem is when people waste their free time. if youve got high technology and free time and you work at mcdonalds when youre 50, thats your fault.

post-scarcity is a long way off, and the collapse of the existing system will indeed come well before that.

the manner of its collapse is to be decided, and I think this is the important point.

as for moral analysis, I don't think it's wholly subjective, not when suicide rates are climbing.

Uh ohhh, sounds like someone got fired

The idea of success is built on the fact that others can and will fail. Don't you get it?

circular discussion.

Yes people can succeed, but the structure of our system ensures that there will always be a large underclass of exploitable people who have zero socioeconomic leverage. That large underclass is maintained at dynamic equilibrium.

This is bad.

"But you can still succeed."

And around and around we go.

yeah but thats a fact of existence, we have to learn to live with it. the best we can do is try and make success and failure as much about merit and willingness to suffer for it as possible, that way its a willing suffering rather than a mandatory one.

thats the thing, im arguing that this is not the case, that those with the least economic power are in those positions because of the way theyve chosen to live, not because they have to be there. why do i owe someone any more than my contribution to the economic systems that work to prevent them from starving to death if they really run out of money?

>I'll be damned if some bozo kid tells me how to have a work ethic.
you total fucking retard no one gives a fuck about your sad fucking work ethic the fact that you admit it says it all you mindless jew nigga bot..just follow the fucking herd

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when a person fails, where do they end up?

how hard is it to succeed?

There are other parameters.

>had more leisure time
You mean with their 12 hour workday in the factory? Or do you mean with their 16 hour sustenance farming workday that they gave up for factory work because they found factory work more preferable. Keep in mind there were so few resources the kids had to work too. Imagine feeding some useless eater for 18 years while he goes to fingerprinting school. 1 guy providing for the whole family didn't happen until like 100 years ago.

>More financial fear
Imagine being a potato nigger and working 16 hours a day for several months to grow potatoes, only to have them die of blight during the harvest. That's true fear right there.

>Less upward mobility
Compared to what? Birthright nobility?

>Worse, the peasants ate better
No lol. Do you know what scurvy is, and why it only existed in the past?

>Working harder for less pay
Pay as quantified in some universal standard like calories, you get more calories per hour flipping burgers today than you would at working the average job at any other point in time.

i could make a moral argument in favor of suicide just to play devils advocate but i wont. my main point was that its not useful in terms of discussing solutions to the proposed problems because you cant legislate feelings.
the majority of people end up in a position to resume work at some other business, and those that dont become homeless. homelessness is a real problem, dont get me wrong, but its also a very small one comparatively our systems arent perfect but theyre human systems and any kind of perfection in that regard is impossible.

>go 30k in debt for a stem degree
>only 30k a year job in the market unrelated to degree
>rent is 1k a month for 1 bedroom studio
>car insurance car payment food clothes phone electricity water car repairs taxes loan payments

you forgot the
>still can afford to eat out and get drunk and buy weed and spend free time on leisure

So business owners are slaves too?
Working 80 hours a week just to break even for future years?

Life is work. Shit ain't free. Everything has a cost. Even free shit has a cost.

There is absolutely nothing about that post that you could even insinuate the posters identity or if they are liberal or conservative. You are such a fucking faggot.

Stop living in the city if you don't have a city job. You're struggling because you're bidding against all the other people who have them.

People feel bad because their circumstances are bad.

A person in solitary confinement feels bad because his situation is bad.

A person fighting in the trenches in 1916 felt bad because his situation was bad.

It's a useful metric. When people feel bad, the situation is bad.

Wait, youre telling me the answer is to move away? To where there are LESS jobs? You know how much they fuck you on defaulting on a loan, right?

You're so fucking stupid. First, vast majority of STEM grads, even those with bachelors in engineering degrees do not all land 100K+ jobs starting. Furthermore, a lot don't even land jobs. And lastly STEM is already over saturated. You just might have to off yourself for being such a god damn retard.

THEN WHATS THE SOLUTION.. all I see is fucking people talking about how they want freedom. In What world do you see that existing.. even if you washed away the government and all businesses then what? Then it’s down to who’s the physically strongest and smartest.. oh that’s right places like this actually exist.. IDIOT..

THE REAL ISSUE IS POPULATION... As this number increases the need for everything increases. nothing will ever get better if dumb people keep making dumb kids.

It’s not “capitalism” that made you poor, its because chances are your parents never had anything cause they’re too stupid to fucking realize “hey we don’t have the ability to take care of a child” then you grow up being a piece of shit like them..

>those with the least economic power are in those positions because of the way they've chosen to live

the goalposts move, because market value is relative.

>why do I owe someone

are you Jeff Bezos? You don't.

while i dont totally disagree i would say there are other factors at play here, a lot of our stress in the modern day is psychological stress. as society has grown more modern and capitalistic its respect for philosophical and moral understanding has flagged. i think people are mainly confused and dont know how to think about the world in productive ways. especially in america, this isnt an economic problem so much as it is a psychological one.

the truth is it doesnt matter how hard you work. some people are just lucky while others are less fortunate. you can work your ass off your entire life and still be poor meanwhile someone with rich parents wins the lottery and never has to lift a finger their entire life. id rather not work that hard and just wait for lady fortune to smile upon me.

The fact that you're so childish you can't hold a proper debate does not surprise anyone here that you don't understand an argument isn't about who wins or loses, it's about facts and conversing about why your point is valid and correct. Jesus everything is about better the another. This is why the human race should be eradicated

Thats retarded. Shit logic.

"Take pride in what you do", if that's not something you understand, your dad didn't do his job or you didn't have one around growing up.

Most people put on a front a act like they have "pride" in their horse shit job. Other's say this because they want other people to have to go through a miserable job as they do.

When I was young I worked very hard for some years. Saved up a bunch of my money. Not sure if it'd be possible nowadays with how shitty work is now.

Anyways, I worked from when I was 16 to 28 with a few breaks in-between. After that, I was done. I lived frugally off the money I saved and made some more money on the side from some hobbies that I was able to turn into a profit. Still do this for my money to this day. Had a lot of time to refine my craft and all.

You don't need to stress about having millions and millions of dollars by the time you're old and dying like me. You'll never spent it. Or enjoy it as much as you'd think. Old age has it's perks. But when you're young, that's the time to experience life.

It makes me sad the amount of young people wasting their entire lives working. So much more than they need to that is. And then they frown on others who are able to do less or no work at all.

You're alive for a blink of an eye. Even if you live to 100, that's no time at all. I'm 76 now and I feel like I was in my 20's only yesterday.

If I spent my life working as some people do, I'd feel cheated and tricked in some way I think.

In my opinion, your goal in life should be living it to the fullest. Have as much free-time as you can while still living comfortably. You don't need the most expensive house or the craziest car. It's okay to splurge on things, but people have this idea that you're supposed to be surrounded by gold.

I've out-live many of my friends now. Many of them died just as they were finally retired. I'm sure they had a good life. But more than half of it was spent working and giving their life to some asshole in a suit.

Anyways, I've rambled on for too long now. Just don't get caught up in the rat-race too hard. I love you all. Thanks for reading.

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The solution is political.

There were huge power imbalances even when the human population was small. It's not the number of people, it's the distribution of wealth and power.

To have despotism, you only need two people. One has a sub-machine gun, the other does not.

everything is relative, though specifically i was referring to people in modernized countries like the united states, or Canada.

why?

"Its not what you know but who you know"

>literally this
>grad school is more networking than actually learning.

I'm sorry for all the troubles you're going to have in life by your shit tier attitude, poor ass logic and lack of skills in any workforce. You're a disease and a waste

poorfag spotted

If you make 3/4ths as much flipping burgers in ohio, but your rent is a quarter of what it used to be, you're better off flipping burgers in ohio.

And if you were just gonna flip burgers anyway, you shouldn't have taken (or been given) the college loan in the first place.

>be slave
>"w-well but you had no dad! yeah, showed you now, didn't i? take that, i won!"

I'm 32. How do I get more friends like you? You sound fucking awesome.

You dont have to be a worker bee, a good work ethic just means that once you have a goal, you'll do whatever it takes to achieve it.
Look at hitler that man had an amazing work ethic

You can have great circumstances and still feel bad. You can also feel good in shitty circumstances. I've seen both.

Looks like I hit a nerve. I wasn't trying to insult you friend, it's okay.

Ok so I should move to a place where I can buy a house for around the same price as my yearly income?

>lol you had no dad gottcha
>now all you gotta do is be a good little wagecuck
>trust me, my dad made me one so it's the right thing

I'm willing to talk to you if you decide you want to work on your daddy issues, honestly it's not an offer you'll get too often so you might want to consider it.
Growing up with out a real father figure can be pretty hard on a boy.

I think this shows that you don't know what it's like to be poor. The material desperation and despair are not easy to philosophize away.

Working three jobs to care for your kids, finances on a razor's edge, one missed paycheck away from eviction. Upstairs neighbors are processing drugs and it's a constant fire risk, gangs are threatening your kids for refusing to join. Knowing you'll never have the time or financial security to go to community college (and university is utterly out of the question).

If you get sick, it's over. if your kids get sick, it's over. If your car breaks down, it's over. If the guys upstairs set the place on fire, it's over. Your life is a suspension bridge held up by one bolt.

im flattered you think so but you're wrong. you shouldn't be having kids if you cant afford it, again, your fault. you can live cheaper than inner city and projects by moving somewhere in the midwest, like indiana.

Yeah. You're gonna have to rent until you can pay off the loan because the banks will be hesitant to let you go into debt twice, but even burger flippers can buy their own home.

Look at this house. 6000 down and a 30 year fixed mortgage of 125 dollars a month. That's reasonable.

zillow.com/homedetails/312-Arthur-Ave-E-Estelline-SD-57234/194614155_zpid/

If you've got 3 jobs you really don't know what it's like to be poor.

> Implying having work ethic has anything to do with how much you get paid

I'd say people with no work ethic are the worst, because they only do as good as they are paid, and have no respect for the work in itself but only do it for the money, which led them into having low paying jobs in the first place. By proper work ethic here I mean is to work and get paid, not work to get paid. If you work to get paid, regardless of how responsible you are, you're already part of the bigger problem - selling your soul for stuff and losing your individuality.

> tl;dr kys fucking lazy maggot

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the rent seekers are all siphoning our wealth - people who spam buy and sell autistically, people who charge you to use their land where the jobs are

I dont care what your job is, if you dont have capital youre being financially raped

isn't having kids one of the primary existential drives of a human being? One of those things that give life meaning for a lot of people?

bringing humans into a life of abject poverty and suffering they have to wait two decades to deal with is selfish.

so why should we arrange our society in a way that faces millions with this dilemma?

because we dont have control over that, we live in the society we find ourselves in and we do the best we can within it. the greatest men in the world can only hope to change it a little.

well OP, my ethic for work has served me very well and the work I do is truly enjoyable and others benefit from what I do as a professional practice, so kindly take your un-based opinions up your ass.

Its inescapable. If you have people that aren't self sustaining, and you siphon them resources so they can reproduce, you just get more people that aren't self sustaining. The system cannot support this.

That place looks like shit

gaining control over that is the goal of leftist political action

the trend of developed, educated societies is toward fewer children

why do sad old fucks like you even come here kindly take your un-based entitled shit else where you arrogant fucking cunt you are the cancer..

Thank you (: You are awesome too. And from my experience, friendships are able to become finer in some ways as people age. And I don't only mean that as in your current friends getting better. But more, you'll meet many more that you'll fall in love with.

Many of my greatest friends, I met in my late 60's. Filters wind down, and people aren't afraid to share their mind and thoughts. With more of a sincere type of way. Since we are on our way out soon and all.

And they let you explore theirs. It's a wonderful thing. Probably why when you talk to older-folks they seem to ramble on for days. They usually just want to connect with you (:

Thank you very much again for the nice words.

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Oh shit you're right. Fair enough, I only looked at the outside.

zillow.com/homedetails/913-11th-Ave-NW-Watertown-SD-57201/114542796_zpid/

Here's one for the same price that doesn't look like shit.

before you say "leftist political action is doomed to fail" for whatever reason, consider that we have the resources to provide for everyone, and we have the intelligence to allocate those resources and to arrange society in a more humane way. People are the barrier. People in power, and their class interests which run counter to the interests of the lower class. Human suffering is a political consequence, and even if the solution is difficult it is our duty to the human condition to pursue one.

>Probably why when you talk to older-folks they seem to ramble on for days. They usually just want to connect with you (:
you like candy little boy..i got puppies in the van..

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Sure, in the short term. In the long term, evolution favors those that have more children.

Even if you have a society with an average birthrate of 2.1, what that really means is that some guy is having 5 kids and some other people are having 1-0 kids to balance him out, making them evolutionary dead ends. Low birthrates are self correcting.

You rock man. I want to surround myself with people like you.

yeah well you're going to need good private medical care once you get cancer from all the radiation you deal with on the daily.

>end your life because it doesnt conform to our flawed system

you seem to be saying that poor people are a genetically distinct group whose inherent nature is to produce lots of children

you don't get promotions from doing the bare minimum and showing up late everyday

Stanley said it best.
yeah I have a game it's called work hard so my kids can go to college.

>you don't get promotions from doing the bare minimum and showing up late everyday
gotta love that slave mentality..yes sir boss, right away boss, kiss your fucking ass boss..cringing old faggots

Well yeah. You'd only have to look at the birthrates by race to see that. Even if you look at the birthrates between white liberals and white conservatives (flyover state people), this is true.

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op is a immature fucking nigger who will live on welfare and die of wellfare, work sucks but it is requred and work can truly bring meaning, but your bithing will only degrafe you

You fucking faggot, then just quote me that.
I just say I experienced it that way... doesn't mean I am not willing to look beyond my own horizon.
Fucking send me some links and I'll read and try to learn something new.
But no...
>hurr durr anecdotal bullshit
This is what I mean with you lose when you don't even try to argue, the few people that are still willing to learn only get bullshit non-arguments.

I do get it though, most people are just here to rage and shit post terrible bait.

this is cultural and economic. Even if we say white liberals are a genetically distinct group, this group had higher birthrates when the cultural and economic factors around them were different.

see
It was never about winning or losing you fucking retarded embryonic reject...
The whole point is that people reply an actual point, I am not actually here to shit post. I just stated that I experienced things differently do a point almost beyond believable coincidence and what do I get?
>hurr durr u r say bullshit

I am here because I am curious about what people actually have to offer in terms of legit information. And the moment someone just starts shitting instead of talking the conversation is lost, and so is the point.

get a job, hippies

the cars aren't gonna build themselves

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Fuck that is depressing...
But not really surprising, just look at what Disney is doing.

revolution is a terrible fucking idea, some us fuckers have no idea how good you have when it comes down to pure bones of the system, instead they spend by pressure and whine they dont make enough, so they rebell against a loving system and die like so

sounds like you're the only sane one here

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What the fuck are you talking about "went to college for nothing and bought homes for spare change." Don't buy into the Kool Aid kid. Comparatively, houses and college cost just as much. When I went to university, my tuition was $3800/yr. The same course is now $7200. More expensive? Sure, until you figure that I earned $3.15 at my minimum wage job. Min wage is now over $11. In other words, my tuition was higher than it is now. My dad bought our house for "pocket change": $43K. He was making $19K in a job that now pays $145K. That house is now worth $250K, so in relative terms the price of that house has come down. Don't like being a wage slave. Start a business and hire your own "wage slaves," and see how you feel about entitled little fuckers like yourself stealing their wage by fucking the dog and complaining all the time.

if you are a smart businessman you will approach walmart with a buyout offer... assuming your store did any sort of decent business in the first place to make a case with and prove goodwill value of them buying you out.

This is why the hiring process is so expensive. We have to take so much time to ensure that we don't get stupid fucks like you on our payrolls. Go to the gutter with all your other entitled friends. Stop living off the rest of us who are willing to work.

>no one gives a fuck about your sad fucking work ethic
No one has too but god damn you got triggered by that, struck a nerve, bozo?

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>comparatively, houses and college cost just as much

cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have-risen-since-1940.html

forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2018/07/24/price-of-college-increasing-almost-8-times-faster-than-wages/#5ee1c75266c1

pffftt, id rather work 40hrs/wk for someone else vs working 60, 80, 100+ hr weeks with limited or zero days off.

with 40 hour weeks I can make investments, do side hustles out of a hobby/passion vs sacrifice months or years of my time for what will most likely amount to barely much more money.

and if it is purely about money, financial freedom, then you're doing it wrong if you cant make it work on 40k-60k (what i consider to be a standard, common, easy to reach annual income for peopel who arent pea brains or lazy shits)

as for worker bees as slaves. no. that isnt what slavery is. and some people do pride themselves in work, or cannot/have no other passions/hobbies in life. i for one pride myself in doing a good job, but i like my job so thats diff i guess... but there is nothing wrong with someone workin in a factory wanting to do the best damn job they can even if it is for the same pay as someone else. its called teamwork... being part of the team. you have different components... its like the always sunny thing - brains, face, muscle, wildcard .... at work its the same, youre on a team and you got someone who just busts ass 110%, and others who work smarter, some who are simply the face/social/morale person who does maybe half the work but keeps it fun, and the wildcard ... who cuts the vans brake lines without telling you, or whatev

>No one has too but god damn
LOL.learn English you dumb old faggot..useless piece of shit you're a fucking joke and all your sorry ass ethics fucking pathetic cocksucker

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Yeah they take pride in their god damn pride so what? Fuck off neck beard faggot you’re 23 and still living in your fucking mom’s basement no clue what you’re going to do. I’m fucking 16 and got my whole fucking life planned out. I’m going to be a carpenter as soon as I graduate, and I have a girlfriend a plan on marrying since we both have said we’re interested in it. Not to mention I love carpentry and it pays amazingly well. So get off your fat ass and fucking work for once in your goddamn life.

>the person who detests every second of their existence, thanks largely in part to their wage slavery, yet prides themselves on being a worker bee.

I'll tell you why this person sucks. This person sucks because their attitude gets in the way of political change. They have economic Stockholm syndrome so they consistently vote against their own class interests, sell out their fellow workers at the ballot box, and allow the rich to control our government year after year. These politically clueless, easily exploited, useful idiots prop up the system that everyone suffers under.

We have a minimum wage at all because people fought for it. There was a political struggle. We have protections for injured workers because people fought for it. We have workplace safety laws because people fought for it. We have a consumer protection bureau because people fought for it. Class struggle is a political struggle, and these economic uncle toms are one of the largest barriers to meaningful change by democratic methods.

Because these people oppose meaningful change by democratic methods, the pressure builds until others demand change by more destructive methods. We get the slip-stick, plate tectonic model of class politics and economics. Decades of increasing unrest followed by sudden, preventable upheaval. Gains are made. People forget. The rich gain power again and conditions get worse and the pressure builds again and there is more upheaval.

>muh uncle toms
I bever participate in any of the strikes our union (of which I'm not part) calls, and you know why? Because they're always for reasons I literally give no shits about.

>strike because some people are being put on reduced time due to a labor shortage
So what the fuck is the company supposed to do? Go bankrupt so then we'll ALL be out of a job?
>strike because two people are getting fired
I don't know nor care about those two people and I don't see why I should. They claim they're hardworking and productive, but if they were they wouldn't be getting fired.

Also the union got us an "on-call agreement" which was getting me significantly worse pay than what I was getting BEFORE we had an agreement, all just because other people don't have the balls to say NO, I WON'T be on call if you don't pay me.
I did the on-call thing at the union rates for like two months before telling my boss I wasn't having it, and he went to the CEO and now everyone in our office gets paid like before but we have to keep it a secret from the others.

They did the same thing for the off-site work. Now that we "have an agreement" the rates are something totally ridiculous like 5€ every 100km of travel. I don't care about it because the only time I go off-site is because the company is paying me to go to interesting conventions and I wouldn't ask for the off-site rate anyway as it benefits me just as much as them.

tldr unions are useless