So I've been learning for the first time about communism and it's been a bit of a red pill moment for me.
>free healthcare
>workers rights
>free education
>guaranteed job and accomodation
>from each according to his ability to each according to his need
Am I missing something here, or does that all sound pretty good? I thought we were supposed to be the good guys in the Cold War?
Any other communist fags here today?
>in b4 muh Stalin
Yeah, he fucked up but how many capitalist dictators have killed people too? Just because one guy is a dick doesn't mean the entire ideology is without merit.
Well did you see the part of communism that makes all those things "free"? EVERYONE works. The workers control the means of production. There's no such thing as sitting around moving other people's money from one pile to another and getting paid for that. You need to produce products and services and shit, or you go to the gulags.
Planes are literally falling out of the sky because essential safety features are sold as "options". This is how capitalism treats the 10% of people who can even afford an airline ticket, what a joke!
>implying that the glorious motherland would have any use whatsoever for the NEETs that live on Yea Forums
>actually seems to want to go to the gulag
Fuck that shit
the final red pill is understanding that different people prefer different structures of society and government
there is no "one true form" and there never will be, because we are all too different
that's what people have been fighting over since the dawn of civilization
you've just discovered that you prefer communism
youtube.com
Communism sucks for everyone.
Yeah and that's the thing - all that sounds like an improvement on the ways things are at the moment. People shouldn't get paid ridiculous sums to duck around all day long. People should have to do actual work.
Communism only appeals to people who don't knkw how to do hard work and want papa government to save them from their own incompetence and provide them with a loving they have never earned.
The only people that capitalism doesn't work for is deadbeats like the OP
>rights
What rights?
You clearly haven't lived in a communist country. Fucking lazy ass neet.
Seems to work in China anyway. You realize those faggots own us, right?
America is owned by the fucking Chinese Communist Party ffs
It doesnt work. You learned nothing, you just got seduced by it.
China seems to be doing alright
You missed that everyone are equally poor, no one wants to work harder when not getting individually rewarded, but have to share it all with someone not pulling their weight, you also forgot the gulag.
Enjoy.
You should see some of the propaganda that was in the elementary schools when I was growing up in the 80s. It was just starting to change over from Carter to Reagan. There were still Rosie the riviter posters, showing that even women could be workers, throwback reprints from the postwar industrialization era that they idealized. Then the corporatists came, Michael J. Fox was Alex P. Keaton and he was a cartoonish representation of the realities of the rise of neoliberalism in the 80s. It was get rich or die trying, literally, the CIA flooded the streets of South Central LA and blamed it on niggers, implying gang bangers who couldn't find their ass with both hands could form a multinational drug empire without significant help.
With a market economy. They are no longer communist. When they were it was a disaster.
They are doing alright since they began to be more capitalistic. They were a third world shit hole, when embracing full communism.
What you THINK you'll get is everything you have now and only have a work a cushy job. What you ACTUALLY get is all day work in the labor camp and come home to rice gruel to enjoy in your one-room government mandated shipping container shelter
Don't pretend to be against gulags. There are people out there right now who need to be gulaged. You know who went to gulags? People who got to the end of the education and training process, which was all free, and realized they just didn't want to work. What's your problem with this system?
just fucking kys china isnt communist
China and Russia both achieved their power through communism, the other superpower, the USA, is the retarded kid.
Not him but does anyone really know why communism wont ever work? Human greed take a look at a doctor, has to go to school for 8 years has to bust his ass off and depending on the doctor is dealing with some serious trauma. Now you habe a janitor making the same as this doctor because communism. No one would want to be doctors cause theres no point
Russia fell out of power and thats why gorbachev adopted more capitalist ideas and pulled them out of a depression like state. China is more socialist, has a capitalist market but a lot of socialist programs
Communism turned Russia from a medieval backwater to a nuclear superpower in one generation. Of course there was brutality - they basically had to squeeze in the entire fucking industrial revolution into a decade or two, fight 2 wars and make pretty much their entire population literate in that span of time - and against the odds they managed to do all of that and beat us in the space race
I do wonder sometimes how good things would be if communism ever happened in a richer society where it would have a better starting point like Germany or Canada.
No. Russia collapsed due to communism. China put in a full capitalistic market economy and prospered. Communism made them both crap.
>Everything is free at the cost of no food, no property, it’s share everything or be sent to gulag
Nope.
do you realize how many people died because of the Great Leap Forward? how many died for Stalin? read a fucking book, any really
We were the good guys...
Your sources softpedaled and/or ignored the pervasive brainwashing, multiple competing secret police agencies, and concentration/'re-education' camps...
It also made them collapse in 89. And quality of life was shit. If this happened in another country? Same result as always. Ruin.
It did for awhile and then russia fell flat on its ass and could not recover economically until gorbachev torn down the wall. The russian side of the berlin wall was sneaking over to the american side for food and basic needs
>book
>literally thinks everything that is written in the books is real
top kek
How does not supporting free shit equal might not be good guys in Cold War?
>OP doesn't even understand what the Cold War was.
>free healthcare
nothing is ever free son
>workers rights
unions are already too much
>free education
public schooling is already a luxury you are provided up to college
>guranteed job and accomodation
as a slave
Honestly no matter how many times communism is proven to not work in a world with limited resources, new idiots spring up and old idiots ignore reality. nice b8 btw
through a system (trade, export, finance in general) built by capitialist
why do they have so many pornstars that take two dicks in the ass like your 1st pop ring
>does not supporting free shit
Why mutts are so fucking pathetic? Do you really like to pay for literally everything around?
They fought the wrong enemy...
>implying that most people working multiple or low paid jobs to keep their heads above water in capitalist countries aren't effectively slaves
no you read them all, then judge what is shit, like your uninformed post
None of those things are intrinsic to communism. In fact, all of that can be accomplished in a capitalist economy. At least in the US, the problem is that half the population has been brainwashed to think government spending on social programs will collapse society.
Slave labor does wonders, as long as you've got good accounting and plenty of slaves...
Soviets lost track of both, now they're one with the pharaohs.
I don't read books, I don't need someone to tell me what and how to think, I have my own brains.
The only problem with Communism, user.
Is people.
Regardless of intention, or initial efforts. Greed, and lack of motivation take over. Happens every time. Do some reading in the decline of the USSR. Or the social class system in China. And if not those, you get the EU imploding itself with taxes and social unrest.
No incentive to work hard and oppressive police state structure means everything would be worse.
>the Red Army was badass though
DDR 'woked' for a while, all it needed was large supplies of barbed wire and a massive number of secret police...
Join the fucking military! You'll get those benefits too!
Then get your ass to work!
you need both, books and brains however, i would go find people who lived under those regimes and ask them how amazing it was...then make up your own mind
Keep following your indoctrination, stooge...
Youre right history books are written by winners not whose right. But those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it. You will mever have a utopian society like the giver or solent green until we can remove human greed from the equation
I don't need to find no one, I just imagine how it's great to live without a fucking advertisement everywhere, without a fashion trends, without a stupid computers, smartphones and all that garbage and toys. I just wanna live in the world where there is no fucking teen fags in tight rolled up pants and sneakers with a pink hair telling me that niggers and muzzies and faggots have a rights. I don't wanna live in a fucking world where your income and a social status is like the most important thing in your life. I don't wanna buy and sell all the time, I don't want to be a fucking "personality" after all. I want to be a part of something. In this shitty capitalistic world I can't be a part of anything, because I literally hate everything that I see around and all I want to do is destroy it and not join
Is Russia any better off now than when it was under Communism? Even many fucking East Germans want the wall back because many aspects of life was better when it was up.
Sure they can vote now but they can't get jobs or housing or put food on the table.
Not him but youre retarded "niggers and muzzies" would be the ones in power same with cletus and the trailer park gang. Youre also able to post your opinion on a Burmese tiger trapping forum on your computer or smart phone BECAUSE of capitalism. Wanna know what would happen if you expressed this opinion in a communist society? Always one murder away user
Human greed is the reason capitalism doesn't work by that logic.
Well its back to a super power not in decline, and Germany has other issues other than "Capitalism bad"
No it does it only works for the greedy. The top 1 percent it works for them, doctors get paid for the highly skilled training they get software devs get paid because of the demand for them it works. Its not for the people who have no skills
Read "The Gulag Archipelago". It'll cure you
They offer little to nothing to society and thus earn little to nothing, they have no skills or assets and thus must work. In communist countries even doctors and scientists must work like slaves
If your car only worked 1% of the time you'd say your car is broken but when it comes to economic systems it's the best we can do.
It declined because it gave up on communism and capitalist vultures immediately raped the infrastructure and natural resources of the country in an orgy of privatisation as soon as the Soviet Union fell. Those same fuckers are the father's and grandfather's of the people who currently run Russia for their own ends.
It still hasn't recovered from that trauma either economically, socially or spiritually. It's a country suffering from PTSD and has been since the 90's.
Please learn the difference between socialism, communism, Leninism-Marxism. The communist society is what all communist ideologies want to achieve, the difference is how. Marxism-Leninism suggests the proletariat should ride up and establish the so called dictatorship of the proletariat, so that after that you dismantle the state and can theoretically reach communism. However this clearly does not work. If you have the magic solution of how to reach this ideal and amazing society please tell me, otherwise I'll just stick to democracy and capitalism
Never said its the best, but with all the systems we have its the most stable
Communism is evil and you should be 18+ to post here.
Germany was doing very well it has taken in more people than what its infrastructure can support its happening alot in other places not just germany
This looks stable to you?
On paper its ok, the main issue is the human tendency to stop trying if they have too many guarantees
>still believes in the concept of good and evil
>implies anyone else is young and foolish
Fuck off, normie
Bullshit. I know what it means to walk with 40kg packs of cement for days of work. But trust this motherfucker when he says, communism will give you more for this shit work.
Yeah its collapsing due to stupid people, hell the housing market crash of 08 could have been avoided the goverment heard about it did nothing and then the guy bet against the crash he was supposed to get 4 billion dollars but we didnt have the money
>"Free" Healthcare
You do realize every place with such healthcare makes you wait over months of treatment and you will most likely die
>Worker "Rights"
Yeah because having to work as hard as you can with very little or no Conpensation sounds like a fair deal, Punkass
>"Free" education
Why is it that Russians are not known for being smart and when they do something that takes smarts like an atomic bomb, they had to steal the knowledge
>"Guaranteed job" and "accomodations"
Yeah, because after a person loses a limb in chink factory they automatically replace them and then you will probably lose your limb. Oh, and the accomodations are nice but you have to share your shit with someone if you don't want to get killed by them or hide your belongings and see the rest diee because they got nothing
>for each blah blah and each blah
No faggot, it all goes to the higher ups and they care shit about you. Once their population dies off they spread their "Genius" to another population and rinse and repeat
You should kill yourself if you believe communism is good. You will die anyways in a communist state
This
You mean predatory capitalism is eating itself?
Under Communism, all white women would be redistributed to Black Men.
Brainlet ideology
Read the Communist manifesto by Karl Marx.
The people who hate communism are the rich and the people who believe their propaganda.
how old are you?
Not really people doing stupid things cause of loop holes
>>free healthcare
>>workers rights
>>free education
Cant have something for free and workers rights at the same moment
Communist countries have a higher quality of life than capitalist countries at the same level of development. Imagine being so stupid as to compare America to a country that was literally agrarian before communism.
Do you think the janitor sat on his ass for those 8years? No, he had his hand down a toilet, or was cleaning up vomit. Why should the doctor get paid more than the guy that breaks his back working all day? How is that fair? It's what we're used to in a capitalist society, but is it actually fair?
>essential safety features
Safety features are never essential
For a plane the things that are essential is what makes it fly
You mean capitalists using the laws they set up to funnel money from the poor people to themselves? It's literally the core of the economic system, user.
Stupid. Look at Germany. I come from there btw, they lowered everything you need to become a doc, not in a hospital, but in villages and small towns, why? Because there were'nt enough doctors, simple as fucking that.
We are in a whole new Era of education and really? Look at all the cancer American parents created. Fucking gender studies. The whole country is fucked. The whole youth is fucked. "Muh freedom"
"””””””””””””””””””free”””””””””””””””””””””
“”””””””””””””””””equality””””””””””””””””””
Cause the doctor has to have special traning
It's been estimated that of we got rid of bullshit jobs that keep the current system propped up and used automation to benefit all we could meet everyones needs by working 10-15 hours a week.
You forgot:
Lack of ownership of land/product
Totalitarian government
20 million + dead in its finest example
Also, most people’s abilities are slightly above just sucking dick
Better example of socialism communism is venezuela, it's people is starving, inflation never ends, 4 days without electricity, borders closed for international help, etc. All that while maduro is trying to send gold bars to rusia, he with his wife go out to an exclusive restaurant eating the most expensive meat, and his son drives a sport car covered in gold
This is an 18+ website.
Don't give me shit about labor camps when America has a quarter of the world's prison population doing labour for a dollar a day
No its greedy people being greedy, thats not the core
>Most types of cheese banned in china
>Motorcycles banned
>People fighting over powdered milk
>Getting a car and plating costs 100's of thousands
>Hundreds injured everyday bc no OSHA
>Hundreds injured everyday bc no on gives a fuck about one another from fear of ridiculous lawsuits
Yeah, they're doing great.
You know that the French fucked Venezuela, just like a lot of country's because "money"? Uncultured capitalist
It is. Sadly to break it to you
Yeah they lowred it in villages cause no one goes there cause THEY. DONT. GET. PAID
But this math is based on the idea everyone can do every job
After automation you end up with some people having the same workload and many people that are worthless as employees
You are a moron. Do literally any historical research before you open your mouth.
Most humans are naturally cooperative. It's how our ancestors managed to survive despite being so physically weak. Somewhere along the line the greedy got power and have been convincing us that everyone is like them ever since.
Its not thats why we have laws. People spend years looking for loop holes and abuse them
You forgot:
Ownership is had by all, not none
Every government is totalitarian, but you might as well be part of the one that wants to include you
Corporations have a higher kill count
Even the rich have to bribe their way into institutions to get better skills rn
And the ones that wont ruin the system
Surely Bolivia is a better example.
Just some some videos on youtube where mutts can't answer even the simple questions about everything. Talking about education, kek.
Old ex-communist here, dont believe it, its basically like religion
Great on paper, but impossible to apply because of all the inherant faggotry of the human kind
I want to say something but this is just so fucking stupid
I'm 30 and I hate the fucking capitalism
Karl Marx was a faggot that lived off his boyfriend. Said Boyfriend was a layabout loser who lived off his daddys factory money.Suddenly Marx thinks up an "Inevitable" philosophy that says the working class is too stupid to properly rebel so a middle class educated guy like him will need to lead them in a mighty revolution which will end with him in charge after they seize the means of production. Dont worry though comrade he will surely turn over the reigns of complete control he and others in the new ruling class now have after an unspecified but also inevitable point. Because of course the guys you want in charge are the philosophy students who will give up ruling over the proles "Eventually just trust me"
Its no wonder every attempt at this bullshit has ended up with an oppressive failed state built on a pile of corpses that either turns into cronie capitalism supported by leftists in the USA or a dictatorship where power flows from the barrel of a gun
So do Firefighters and EMTs, yet they're almost on par with the janitors instead of anyone else.
>Old ex-communist here
How old? 20 years old, kiddo?
You are sufficiently stupid to be one of the useful idiots as the USSR once labeled you
Every government is not totalitarian. You like being able to choose where you work?
Welcome to capitalism, sell your labor.
No evil bastard says to you "Work in the coal mine or die."
Well the whole it costs 100,000,000 lives thing.
sounds great, till you find out that it can't happen with a population more than 50.
People have fled by the millions everywhere its been implemented though. The only nation that can't say that is communist N. Korea, only because the people are prevented from escaping. Still, and handful manage to escape your "paradise" every year.
Funny, that.
I can't choose because no one is hiring me, they all say that I should be somebody, should do something, should look like they want me to. Fuck all that. It's better to be a "slave" than a jobless fucker.
>Same level of development
Lel
Insults. Neat.
So you're telling me you have absolutely no skills worth selling? You're that much of a useless lazy cunt? Are you too stupid to run a cash register? Too weak to work as a janitor?
You don't have any skills, I'm guessing. Its not the fault of the system you don't bring anything useful to the table.
Don't worry mate, pretty soon we'll all have universal basic income and problem solved, right?
I don't fucking want to have a skills. All I want is a simple monkey job where you don't need no education at all. But seems like in the modern shitty world you can't find one of those.
You could always kill yourself. Its better than being a useful idiot supporting a system that gibs moe o dat program money to your useless ass at my expense
You are so fantastically stupid you just said corporations killed more than 100 million people. Depite the fact that Commies have killed more human beings on planet Earth than any force save Natural causes
Why? Do you think the world owes you anything? Do you have a better idea?
Apply for welfare or shoot up a feminist rally. Those are your only options then.
Then kill yourself
Come on
Do it
Kill yourself
>I don't fucking want to have a skills. All I want is a simple monkey job where you don't need no education at all. But seems like in the modern shitty world you can't find one of those.
Those jobs are going away man, their being taken by machines. So you want to get paid without contributing ANYTHING, adding NO VALUE. Money for nothing. Hmmm... think I've heard that song before.
The Capitalist system rewards the already wealthy. Even when the poor manage to become wealthy in such a system they reward only themselves. Capitalism is modern survival in the wild. We tried that and decided a society was a superior option.
sound good only if you’re a pathetic loser... “to each according to his ability” sound pretty fair and natural... “to each according to his need” is subjective BS and is artificial AF... you succeed or you die, the math is simple and got us this far in the evolutionary ladder...
Yup
American capitalism isn't flawless, but its created more wealth from nothing than any other nation on earth or in history. I'm doing quite well and I don't come from privilege. I'm sorry your such a sorry shit that you can't seem to get it together enough to participate, but after 80 years of communism Berliners tore that wall down. What happened there? Taken in by the American con I suppose...
>“to each according to his need”
Funny how the leaders of every communist system since Lenin seems to have a greater need than the commoner.
"Comrade we have determined that your need is one bowl of rice per day. It is the same as Great Leader Kim Jong Il lives off of and he is totally not the worlds largest importer of Hennessy "
They do, though. I'm sorry you had to hear it from me, but corporations fight against regulations instead of adjusting to the requirements for safety. Even when corporations aren't committing murder by malfeasance, they're legitimately hiring death squads the way the Coca Cola Corporation did in Colombia.
Nobody creates wealth from nothing. Wealth is representational of capitalizing on existing resources.
it works in theory nigga
Ah yes the Coca-Cola Death Squad that commited the purge in Cambodia. I heard Ronald McDonald himself was at the head of that army
en.wikipedia.org
Sorry you had to hear it from me.
Actually wealth is created all the time.
Tell me, who did I exploit to have my house and my jeep wrangler?
So, you're gonna white knight your way through this, huh?
You can't be this naive to believe, after the last 100 years, that communism is some kind of human shangri la after the millions of people its directly murdered. Either that or you're some fucking idiot.
From my limited understanding, communism will only ever truly work if the whole world is communism, mainly because of economic and trade reasons.
That's EXACTLY what Lenin said. And he also said it didn't matter how many innocent lives were lost on the way.
So you say, but that is the reality of it, people are paid for their time, and thus useless people must give more
Its also why they pushed for controling the world so hard. If they dont people eventually see how much better off other nations are and want better lives too. If you want a good picture of communism working the way its supposed too look at North Korea.
Capitalist society with robust social programs works best. If we could find a way to balance/pay for a low UBI, Healthcare and education while maintaining a free market system, that'd be perfect.
Pure Communism fails. Pure Capitalism collapses with enough inequity. As is usual, a middle path is best. We need enough incentive for people to push and achieve, and enough social safety nets to help people who either can't or won't work. As long as we have reason to achieve, some (most) people will strive for a better life. Others who can't or won't will just have to make do with social programs.
>So I've been learning for the first time about communism
Any opinion you may hold of it at this point in time is invalid. Return to me when you've known about it for twenty years and have thoroughly educated yourself on all the points for and against it, as well as the historical and philosophical materials relevant to the topic.
At that point we can talk like adults. Not a moment sooner.
The ass from whence you leaked.
>free healthcare
>workers rights
>free education
>guaranteed job and accomodation
>from each according to his ability to each according to his need
>no money left for anything else
>government needs to take harvest away from the farmers
>farmers starve to death
>no one else produces food
>everyone dies
Those aren't loopholes user, those are laws. They're just not advantageous to you so you call them loopholes.
If you have a couple decades of study on communism you probably arent capable of doing anything but talk about how wonderful communism is
Handouts make up 60% of the USAs budget. The worlds largest military many times over makes up 30%. Those gibs money programs are a cancer and much of it was a scam to pass a tax hike without passing a big tax hike
>pervasive brainwashing, multiple competing secret police agencies, and concentration/'re-education' camps...
fake news especially fox news, NSA reading even this very post right now, Guantanamo bay.
It's like with most political systems, and most things in general really, there are good sides to it and bad sides. You've listed all the good ones and it does make sense to incorporate socialist ideas into the current system (which every capitalist country has to at least some degree).
You're a pathetic retard or a troll.
Our current social programs are definitely mismanaged. And, really, if we look at one of the best countries in the world (USA), we're already a mix of Capitalism and Social programs. Even the Nordic countries mix Capitalism and Social(ism). Going 100% either way is going full retard, imo. Weed out corruption, outlaw lobbying, encourage innovation and achievement with Capitalism, pay for social programs with the rewards reaped from Capitalism. We still have the haves and the have-nots, there's still mobility between the socio-economic strata and we keep inequity a bit less extreme.
I mean, Folks who're pro Capitalism...do you want to see Social security, UE, etc...all that just simply yanked? Do we have any idea what that would do? I think we'd have riots in the streets and the poor and disenfranchised will have no choice but to attack/steal/kill people who worked for what they have. These social programs keep the barbarians away from the gate, so to speak.
Kill yourself, comrade faggot
Well actually you kinda summed up about what I thought. Its corruption in the system that makes it such a problem. I think the real issue that comes up is there seems to be no way to make the government draw a line on how far social programs would go. A lot of folks would look at helping disabled people and say "ok fine some of my taxes can go to that" and not bat an eye. Given time and expansion though corrupt elements of the government end up using social programs as bribes for votes
Please don't use Red Star for shitposting. Christian Gossett is a good lad and his comic deserved better.
That's not exactly what escapees from N. Korea are saying. The only people that seem to be comfortable with things are the Kims.
Communism is the best system out there in a world full of the best people who always and every day follow Christian principles to their fullest. Look around you. How many people fit that criterion? That's why communism can't work IRL. .
AKA human nature.
Funniest shit that commies always like to say "It would work if X happened". Like people wanting to survive and improve their lives was some negative concept that needed to be quashed before Glorious Communism could work
>implying that human nature is this static thing that has never chaned throughout human history
>being this blind to human historical progress
DONT LISTEN TO THESE FASCISTS, ACTUALLY GO TO R/COMMUNISM101 AND LEARN OR READ COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. YOU COULD GAIN CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS. DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE FASCISTS!
"Class consciousness" = "People who agree with me all the time".
It's funny, because after the revolution people who don't fall into that category tend to wind up dead or in some freezing gulag somewhere.
Op is a faggot cuck who wants to take the whole red army up his ass while licking Stalin's dirty taint
Or stop listening to reddit when it comes to any leftist topic?
Fellow red here, please don't rely on ribbit to learn political theory.
Where would you suggest?
Search for holomodor, you will like it ;-)
Communism is perfect on paper, but the problem it is it fails to take into account basic human nature.
Humans are designed to always seek improvement, whether its in themselves or their immediate environment. The problem with communism in practice is that it attempts to put people into roles, which they may indeed be suited for, but then assumes that they will perpetually want to remain there.
Capitalism, on the other hand, runs entirely on the opposite side where the human nature for more is the essential factor. On paper its a far more brutal and unforgiving system, but in practice its still functional to a degree.