"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the people must be frustrated...

I want to see someone make a militia of guys with muskets. Just like the constitution says

Certain groups, not certain groups of people

He was. Marx also supported capitalism

I fully support gun rights and I oppose any regulations whatsoever.

That being said, this quote is weak. First, we need the exact source. Second, we need to analyze the source and see the context. Third, Jefferson owned slaves and did some other shit unacceptable by today's standards, so he's no authority. Fourth, and we shouldn't forget this, he might be wrong. Even Jesus made mistakes, why do you idealize Jefferson into an abstract character?

We need arguments to support our cause, not the authority of quotes.

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Fuck Jefferson - he didn't even fight in the Revolution. He was a philosopher (i.e. completely fucking useless). He wasn't even a particularly good one, since he lost the argument over the constitution to Hamilton (who did fight in the war, incidentally). It's very easy to say that 'the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants' when you know it's not going to be your blood.

He was also pretty quick to compromise his principles when it was more practical to do so - he spent ten years complaining about the president (Washington) and his lackeys (especially Hamilton) trying to set up a monarchy in America, then when he became president he basically unilaterally decided to double the size of the US - something he would no doubt have flipped his shit over had any other president tried it.

Which is not to say that the Louisiana purchase was wrong - just that even Jefferson knew that what Jefferson said about something and what you should actually do about it are two totally different things..

Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League. It's actually a Karl Marx quote.

like OP cannot stop sucking dicks

This is a Karl Marx quote. Does that change how you feel about it?

Lol okay Elon

"No, see, Marx would actually want me to exploit the proletariat, Joe, because..."

Uh, no loser-fag.
That's a quote from KARL MARX, you commie faggot.

I know you are focused on the Karl Marx part because this is bait, but are you really that obtuse? you associated a sentiment to Thomas Jefferson and asked people to asses how the statement makes them feel.

This is obviously a shitty /pol/ level attempt at "muh communism bad" but let me ask you this:
Do you support unrestricted gun access? Does this make you a communist?

Are you just combining insults to try to seem cool? Go get some more practice in the playground first.

I'm going to do you a favor and assume you're trolling rather than a complete moron.

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

>what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
>Letter to William Stephens Smith (13 November 1787), quoted in Padover's Jefferson On Democracy

Actually, I support communism. My intended target with this bait was anti-gun people who support communism.

weird place to do that but ok

I see what you're trying to do, but I support the second amendment all the way yo. I want my minigun damn it.

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I guess it would also be funny to see a die-hard right-winger support Marx.

Liberals aren't communists.
Hell, actual communists used to hate faggots because they're worthless due to not wanting to have children.
Liberals wanted to include them because of their pink money.

And I want you to have your minigun! It's your right as an American citizen, and as a person.

Theres a group of anti gun communists? You fucking people are retarded. Bring back the 50s and repeat the red scare shall we?

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Yeah, mostly reactionary teenagers that think they're communist but are really just left-wing.

>Actually, I support communism
I fucking doubt that m8. you cant support something you clearly don't understand. communism can only succeed if the revolution is exported on a global level. anti-gun commies are one prong of the process. you need to bone up on your Marx and Trotsky if you think that the ones being disarmed are part of "the people."

Never forget that the NZ shooter was a leftist/socialist. Further proving that they are the problem

Damn skippy, it's a sad day indeed when a man has an itch for firepower and he's not allowed a minigun to scratch it!

Hi again friend

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The quote is actually "worker" and not "people", but that gives away the ruse! Also, what the fuck are you talking about? Marx explicitly believed in arming the prole, and keeping them that way. Not owning guns endangered the revolution.

Looking back at the OP, I see you meant that that's the Marx quote. Well done, you took one historical quote and put another historical figure's name by it. Except that's only clever when the two historical figures had opposing views. The reason I didn't peg the quote as not being from Jefferson is because he expressed basically identical sentiments throughout the course of his life. e.g:

>For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well organized and armed militia is their best security.

The OP quote is easily something Jefferson could of said, or could even be a paraphrasing of an actual Jefferson quote.

12lb cannon were perfectly legal for private citizens to own pre-NFA.

Imagine your neighbor legally owning his own MLRS. That's the modern equivalent here.

Marx was the antithesis to liberalism

Liberals pushing gun control is a reason rural working class whites vote against their own class interests.

Anyone who cares about rebuilding the left should oppose gun control.

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>Marx was the antithesis to liberalism
Marx and Jefferson had virtually identical stances on gun control, and since gun control is the issue we're discussing then it isn't really a trick to pretend that Jefferson said something that was actually said by Marx.

You're god-damned right. I want every working class person to own and be trained in the use of multiple firearms. Anything less means the revolution fails.

Kaepernick would get a completely different response if he protested while carrying an AR.

fostering that civil war rhetoic, ehh comrade?

>working class whites vote against their own class interests.
>implying that liberals have ever done anything for working class whites.
Working class whites have two choices: vote for Republicans who'll do nothing to help them economically, or vote for Democrats who, even though they say they plan to help them economically, will actually do basically nothing about it while simultaneously screwing them in every way possible on every other issue.

ethnic groups, absolutely (as the founding fathers would dictate)

Tomas Jefferson was a drama queen predisposed to hyperbole

A reason why liberals wanted feminism is because it increased the supply of the working force, ergo companies can afford to lower salaries since they can go "If you reject this salary, I have line full of idiots who would take it". This very reason it's why they also want open borders.

Bankers wants immigrants too, but for another reason.

This is a Karl Marx quote. Does that change anything?

Gimme a break. Not even modern communists take what Marx said as gospel.

Fuck off cunt. Nobody believes that. He was a white nationalist, and said as much himself.

Any communist who does not support owning guns is severely misguided and ignorant.

No because you’ve said that a million times this thread already. Tomas Jefferson was still a drama queen.

How about anti-communist gun nuts? If they agree with the quote but then say they hate Marx

What does that have to do with what I said?

What? Who told you that? It’s too soon to try and change facts to support your argument

Simple it was a safeguard should anyone be ignorant enough to let centralized banking, aka Rothschild into America. Thanks Woodrow Wilson, the man who doomed America by letting that happen. Luckily our fore father's predicted this thus that constitutional statement. It means we the people can overthrow the government should it begin to act like how the British government treated our ancestors.

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Why should the source of an idea change how you feel about it? What does this prove? That people just appeal to authority instead of critically thinking?

Marxism and communism are not the same thing. Marx was a philosopher not a political scientist. When Lenin went to install communism he changed it to suit his needs. Then Stalin changed Leninism. Then Khrushchev changed it Stalinism. Which of these is communism?

They don’t care about facts in the first place, so spreading lies is completely natural to them.

Yeah we've done a real good job of resisting foreign bankers. Oh wait.
We've done a real good job of resisting the union of state and private enterprises. Oh wait.
Fuck

Go back to sleep /pol/

Politics today is all about who says something not what is said. Political ideology is fucked. That’s why people are pro and anti big government depending on who is pushing for it. Or pro and anti regulation of societal issues depending on who is pushing for it

That doesn't means you don't have the choice to do so. Happens that you Americans are too cucked to do shit despite having the meanings to rebel.

Who knows and who cares? Comunnism is just a word people use to play politics with.

>Thomas Jefferson
I dont think in a modern "civilized" country, civillians need to run around armed to the teeth. Yes we should be able to protect ourselves but things like swords, guns, tanks or nuclear missiles are military armaments. There is no need for civillians to have them at all. If anything hunting animals is all guns could be used for but a bow and arrow does the same job.
That being said, Thomas jefferson was one intelligent man with some real wise words.

>Anyone who cares about the left should espouse right wing lunacy
God I didn’t miss Yea Forums in these past few months

That’s the point I was making. True communism is not something anyone truely wants. Just like true capitalism is not something anyone wants

Gun control isn’t inherently leftist or rightist. It’s just become a hot button issue that each side has latched onto

Yeah people just want to be told what to think from a “big strong protector”. They don’t want to really think for themselves and be free.

And my point is nobody gives a shit what your point is. Stupid ass. I

>choice
It was option.

Gun control is a right wing issue when black people have guns.

Yes, but now just like abortion, gay marriage rights, and other things, they have become a wedge issue for each side, but most people on the left support gun control, so how would alienating most of their constituency help rebuild the party?

>How do you feel about this quote?

Fuck all.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago

Some classic Marxists actually hate abortion.
marxists.org/history/erol/ca.firstwave/cpl-abortion/section1.htm

It’s always been that way. The Republican Party was the leftovers of the Democratic-Republican party ( at the time just called republicans) after the supporters of Andrew Jackson left because they were for more government power(while expanding voting right to more people so more powerful government but less control by elites)

The Jacksonians became the Democrats who were for more powers by the Federal government

The leftovers became the modern Republicans who were still anti-federalism and for more states rights and power in the few not the many

Well this lasted about 15 years until Democrats started advocating for states rights because they wanted slavery and the Republicans wanted the federal government to tell states what they had to do regardless of public sentiment.

The two parties continue to switch what they are for because politics in America is and alsways has been single issue. The issue may change but the fact that ideals change to suit that one issue doesn’t.

If you don’t care then ignore it. Why is ignoring things so hard for you people

Right wing has to do with economics and societal issues. Gun control is neither of those things. (Most) People on the right are against it and (most) people on the left are for it but that doesn’t make the issue a left or right issue

Most people regardless of political affiliations support some form of gun control. It’s just that each side has framed straw man arguments.

>the left wants to take all of your guns

>the right wants everyone to have rocket launchers

Neither of these things are true

I full sail agree

literally takes 30 seconds to find right wingers who claim everyone should carry around rifles at all times

I've just realised that OP thinks that anyone in favour of gun control must also be a Marxist, and would therefore be shocked to find out that Marx was against gun control.

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discord
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.gg/Bsyufq6

I feel confused since Jefferson never said that at all.

You managed to quote Karl Marx, who advocated for violent revolution.

I wonder how many conservatives read this Marxist quote and said, "God damn I love it!" Fools.

Marx was pro gun because he was pro revolution. He wanted an armed populace, not to protect anyone, but to attack the upper and middle classes.

It's similar to how modern gun nuts want violent revolution as well. The difference? They want to attack blacks, immigrants, and the poor. As someone once said, all poor conservatives see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

>Fools.
Why? You can be against gun control and still want a free market. The fact that you agree with Marx on one issue doesn't mean you accidentally agreed with him on everything else.

It's really painful watching stupid people who think they've done something clever.

The server all about debate and politics discord..gg/JNrh7M

>They want to attack blacks, immigrants, and the poor.
Are you 12? Do you know literally nothing about the world except for what your liberal parents have told you?

Conservatives want guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government which would seek to take away their rights.

it made sense before one bad actor with one weapon could kill a ton of people himself.