Why doesn't Atheism end at fine tuning argument?

Why doesn't Atheism end at fine tuning argument?

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Because it's a stupid argument.

But that's not a refutation of the argument

Because adding a creator only pushes the problem back, into an endless loop of created creators.

That's correct. It's an ANSWER to the QUESTION you posed. You didn't pose an argument, so there's nothing to refute.

But since I'm nice, I'll explain like you're 5 (we both know you're 14 anyways).

The fine tuning argument presupposes that the only universe which we KNOW for a fact can exist is an extremely unlikely configuration for a universe. In other words, it assumes that something we know is true is incredibly unlikely.

It's a fallacy on a number of levels, but that's the most obvious one. In short: It's a stupid argument. No serious philosopher gives it any weight, because anyone with the slightest bit of training in formal logic can immediately spot the problems with it. It's only convincing to people who want to be convinced, or who already are, and even then, it's only convincing if they lack any appreciable understanding of logic.

>starts off with condescension
>the entire rest of the post is 'its stupid logic bruh, no one takes it seriously bruh' which is still not a refutation.

Can we have a better converser in here?

>better converser

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When you show up in a thread acting like a 14 year old jesusfag who doesn't have the faintest clue what you're talking about, you're going to get treated like a 14 year old jesusfag who doesn't have the faintest clue what you're talking about.

I'll talk to you about it without being a jerk. Part of my story is that I grew up a very serious Christian, gave up a lot of stuff for it, went off to be a minister, and dropped out of a pre-seminary program and broke my engagement with my girlfriend of 7 years because I became an atheist.

The problem with the fine tuning argument is as follows:

1. It presupposes that the world as we know it was fine tuned for human beings, but doesn't acknowledge the almost infinite amount of universe where life isn't even possible. Moreover, it doesn't accommodate for planets that exist in the Goldilocks Green Zone.

2. It still assumes a creator actively worked to make the conditions for life in place as opposed to the (at least in my opinion) overwhelming evidence that humans (like all other species on this planet) either adapted to their environments or just died off. As an aside, you can see through fossil records that the overwhelming majority of species on this planet have died because they did not adapt.

3. Like the other atheist said, assuming a creator doesn't do anything besides push these questions back.


But yeah, if you want to talk about it I'll be on for a bit.

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>the entire rest of the post is 'its stupid logic bruh, no one takes it seriously bruh' which is still not a refutation.
Now you're just lying.

Also, I forgot to mention, the earth is like 75% water. What's more, it's salt water that we can't even drink. That doesn't really play in favor of that argument imo.

This

I'm not an atheist, but if there is a "god", it probably isn't one that is based in any religion, because religion is just made up by people anyway

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We live on about 20% of one planet, and there are 8 in our solar system, the rest of which cannot support us. The solar system itself is more than 99% empty space, which cannot support us. There are approximately 100 billion other solar systems in the galaxy, and as best we can tell, none of them can support us. The galaxy itself is greater than 99% empty space, which cannot support us.

The range of temperatures and pressures at which we can survive is minuscule, compared to those we have observed in the universe.

If god designed the universe for us to live in, then god is utterly incompetent.

Hey now you are being ignorant and short sighted. The universe wouldnt exist without fish that swim up your dicks obviously. Just imagine all the other universes wishing they were as cool as us. Just imagine what wouldve happened if God didnt build an exact universe for dickfish to live in that also happened to be liveable for us as well, we'd be aberrations of chance.

There's not even a close to concrete evidence of a second universe, let alone infinity. Basing anything on something that exists merely as theory is faulty itself.

Fine tuning isn't necessarily present just in the big picture. It exists from the big picture to the tiniest of picture possible, and that's why it is so strong an argument. You can take the body of a human being as an example. Notice how finely tuned every single little thing in human body.

>fine tuning of the human body
I just buried my cousin. He got pneumonia at 6 weeks old and became essentially a vegetable for the rest of his life and died at 22, which was far older than he was expected to live. I myself am struggling with back pain, I inherited my dads bad back. Very fine tuned, I must say, I'm just waiting for my totally fibe tuned appendix to burst and my fine tuned wisdom teeth to become infected. Fuck off will ya, the proof of our origin is in both of us, if you choose to ignore it thats your choice, friend.

>There's not even a close to concrete evidence of a second universe, let alone infinity. Basing anything on something that exists merely as theory is faulty itself.

When does my argument do that? I'm simply saying that, for the billions upon billions of miles of the known universe recovered by telescopes and space gizmos, the overwhelming majority of it is uninhabitable.

>Fine tuning isn't necessarily present just in the big picture.

We haven't yet illustrated how it's part of the big picture at all.

> It exists from the big picture to the tiniest of picture possible, and that's why it is so strong an argument. You can take the body of a human being as an example. Notice how finely tuned every single little thing in human body.

Dude, like 66% of pregnancies are terminated by the mother's own body in the geminal stage. People die every year from choking because we breathe out of the same hole we eat out of. STDs are rampant. People die from heart problems they're born with and show no sign of. People have chemical imbalances that make them live miserable lives and commit suicide. None of these things (to me) speak of a grand fine tuning or design.

What an irrelevant thing to bring up. People get diseases for a lot of external factors, but this is not where I was getting at.
Every moment that you're alive, it's because an intricately designed system is doing its job at the right places. This is the one that I'm speaking of.

It's called the "Anthropic principle. Look it up, and maybe next time you won't sound so dumb.

There could be infinite configurations, but for a sentient being to emerge the parameters by necessity have to enable that.

In simpler terms, if the universe wasn't conducive to life, then it would be impossible to ask the question. It simply had to enable our existence for us to pose the question in the first place.

hahahaha its so funny watching my kind pretend they can decipher the inner workings of the universe

Basically all of that summarizes to
>if human body is finely tuned why do we die bro?

So we can return to God.

And every time you die its because this system is failing. You'd think an omnipotent creator could do better...