It's not just a personal choice if there's a victim to consider

Except the majority of humans in relevant countries don't hunt, they go to supermarket. The strong adapt, they don't cling onto things.

Plants also feel pain.

So hypothetically if an extraterrestrial race abducted some humans and bred them into the trillions, there's no moral issue with raising us in confined spaces and then lining us up for murder one by one so we can smell the fresh blood of those ahead us and know that death is coming, that's all just fine because they would never have existed in the first place? Would you rather exist miserably or never have been born?

It makes no difference to the wellbeing of individual members of a population whether or not the overall population is higher or lower.

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it's also my religious choice to use animals as I need them

Animals aren't people. They are like complicated rocks. One of the most important things they can do is become part of us. Do you want me to refuse them that kind of honor?

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Except you don't really believe that, you're just avoiding issue. Would you honestly say that the death of 100 carrots is more tragic than the death of 1 dog?

Vegan diets lead to increased mental illness. Why the fuck would I want to take you seriously

xvideos.com/video605067/shyla-slap_happy

Are animals immortal?

Do animals die without human intervention?

Do animals get eaten without human intervention?

>Implying we're extraterrestrial
Whew lad

you are equating human beings to cows, there's your first mistake

It's not even the killing that's the worse part. It's the conditions they're kept in. Sure, maybe your 2nd uncle has a happy farm where animals all roam free but that's not what intensive farming looks like.

Apply the same logic to abortion.

Why would they go for chicken wing human when they can eat beef or fucking whale meat? Your logic is very poor. Humans would be a poor source of meat - especially since we're highly intelligent and can plot and plan varies ways to fight back and kill the enemy.

Do animals suffer without humans?

Retarded baiter

Nope. That's not how an analogy works. Saying x is like y in one respect is not the same as saying x is like y in all respects. The planetary origin of those involved was irrelevant to the point being made, it was about a higher species exploiting a lower species.

Not all. If you're going to base morality on anything, then surely it should be about suffering and something abstract like rank. Just because one species is lower than another doesn't mean the capacity for suffering should be ignored. An extraterrestrial race capable of interstellar travel would be even higher of a species than humans so why should there be a moral issue with humans being exploited by them?

Do you not understand how analogies work? The actual plausibility of it is irrelevant to the point being made. Obviously it wouldn't make much sense in a real scenario.

What if... what if my aunt had a dick - would she be my uncle?

We can play what if all day long. You froot loops are way out there. LEt's stick to facts, back here on Earth, okay smiley?

>diet is not a religion
>literally requires animal sacrifices
kys faggot

yes

it's their punishment for eating innocent plants.

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Don't look for "pigs gas chamber" on youtube

The purpose of using hypothetical scenarios is to show that someone's logic doesn't add up.

If x exploiting y is okay because y is greater than x then given x as the human and y as something greater than human, there's no problem with y exploiting humans. If you can't see that that's what the implications of the hypothetical scenario was you're just slow.

>literally can't kill enough animals+harvest enough produce to feed the world as it is
>oh I know, let's remove 40% of what the world currently eats!
Not only do vegans not give a shit about other people, they advocate for the extinction of entire species that are now 100% reliant on people.

What if those humans had magnetic boots that wouldn't allow us to be taken and we all had personal shields around us with gun ports to killthem? What about that? You know, since we're playing pull-shit-from-our-asses, what if.

Let's pretend the whole world has gone vegan overnight. Guess what they're going to do to all that livestock? It's not like they're going to let millions of animals that cost money to house and maintain to die of old age after each one has been desexed to prevent an increase in the population. Who the fuck has that kind of money?

It's the same reason why PETA puts down every animal sent to them.

If people didn't exploit honey bees or wool producing sheep they would go extinct. I think it's a pretty fair tradeoff.

The victim would be me missing out on those tasty meats.

animals aren't victims. they're yummy

tigers and wolves are essential carnivores. they have to eat meat to survive. humans do not. there is a difference when we eat meat for entertainment rather than necessity.

cool. would you honor someone else religion if it required to kill people? some people dont see a distinction between the right to kill a cow over a human

Why is meat so unbelievably delicious? Explain that!

so what about humans who have the actual brain activity that would equate them to actual cows? The mentally impaired? Should they be eaten?

if animals are destined to die anyway, whats the difference when or how?

can you cite a source for that claim?

You must be autistic. It's okay, I understand that you have trouble thinking abstractly and understanding nuance. Allow me to explain it more clearly for you.

It was a response to a post suggesting that suffering is irrelevant if the overall population size is greater. To highlight the absurdity of such a notion, I painted a situation where the one making that suggestion was subject to a similar position, forcing them to consider their reasoning, unless of course they don't understand analogies and implied logic.

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Another what-if comment. That's all you vegan bastards have because facts get in your way.

Beef tastes better. Try again.

Are you so retarded that you don't realize that 2000 pound mammals need to be fed too? They don't subsist of thin air.

bees would not go extinct without human care. thats just ... you realize a LOT of flowers require bees for procreation right? have you ever taken a biology course before?

Yeah.

Stop victimizing my hamburger buns.

Also most vegans are usually in full support of abortion so blow me. I am in favor of abortion too but that's called being consistent.

You have to make shit up like space aliens because you can argue facts, shit brains.

so if someone found you tasty, they would have the right to kill you and eat you for it?

Why would it need to end overnight? Do you think such a scenario would be likely?

if your logic has flaws, people will exploit them.

I eat what is yummy
Animals are yummy
I eat animals

We are merely saying,

You are an animal.
You, by extension, are yummy to someone.

This is how consequences work

Are you so retarded that you think people can eat grass

If humans are destined to die anyway, what's the difference in killing one?

More ifs. Go snail trail away you fucking bug.
Humans don't taste good plus you put yourself at risk for disease eating humans. Why do you think canibal tribes are all fucked up like a football bat?

Bees are already on the endangered species list and without the protection of beekeepers they'd be up shit creek.

Wrong. We are a last resort source of food like that Chilean rugby team that crashed in the Andes.

The food pyramid, while broken, suggest a diet consisting of mostly fruits, veggies, and grains.

grass is rich in cellulose, which humans cannot break down in their digestional tract.

You clearly don't anything about agriculture. Calf do not just eat grass.

I found the Vegan

Start with yourself.

if you dont explore what is possible, how will know what you should be doing, given the other side of a situation.

this is called empathy or mindfulness. this is why we share toys with others and dont throw trash on the ground.

it doesnt matter if YOU wouldnt do it. someone will find you yummy, and the only argument you have is ... what? dont? how about we dont kill things merely for our entertainment?

All domestic food animals had exactly the same opportunity to evolve and adapt to the world as we did. Evolution has made us the dominant species, not them. They failed at becoming higher life forms. We have the same responsibility to them that a wolf does to a sheep or a eagle has to a field mouse. The idea that we have to pity and protect everything out there that is not us is backwards, counter productive and literally against the natural order. Animals live, suffer, and die every day without human intervention. Our intervention into local ecologies usually results in far more harm than good. In short, humanity has zero responsibility to police the natural world and prevent suffering as you call it. All things that live, die. Nothing can change that. Life is pain, for evetyone. Get over it you whiny vegan pussies.

A human has potential to impact a world, an animal can only impact the world when used by humans.

they became endangered because our pesticides are not thorooughly tested to determine how they effect wildlife.

theres a concept called magnification when it comes to pesticide run off. its why DDT was so toxic to birds.

so, if we found a human with 0 potential to impact the world, say a person on life support or mentally deficient, we are allowed to eat them?

>When eating animals is bad because it’s totrture and plants can feel pain but it’s okay because plants aren’t cute

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Far out man, be vegan, smoke weed, get in touch with mother earth. Man let's go hug trees and eat grass. Right on. Wasn't it Socrates or maybe Plato who said vegans should be culled?

plants have no nervous system.. they literally have no means by which to feel pain.

you can falsely attribute a claim to an authority but that doesnt speak to the validity of the argument.

arguments land or fall on their own merits, not who coin them.

Impact it in what way? A way that affects humans? That seem anthropocentric to me. Humans do more to harm the environment than maintain it. A goat's net worth to the world is probably close to 0 but the average human's is probably in the negatives.

The day you convince a steak loving group of people, is the day the vegan 0.001 percent can all celebrate at your local McDonald's. In other words, you're never going to win an argument. Seriously. We laugh at you guys. And I'm going to have a huge bowl of my beef filled chili right now.

Soo...nice one Elon Musky..

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If that’s how you plan to justify your slaughter

If if if if if if if if ...

Could you please elaborate on how flowers needing to be pollinated make bees not die.

impact, good or bad, is impact. a goat just sitting in the wild leaves nature in the same state it left it.

hope you're pro life

Vegan threads make me eat more meat.

I’d be inclined to listen to their arguments with less bias if they’d stop saying that I’m a horrible monster for buying prepackaged meat

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>plants are equal to animals
You don't really believe that unless or you'd choose 2 avocados over 1 dog if you had to put either in a blender.

>justify

What do you even eat? Plants are bad, meat is bad. What doesn't feel pain? Wood bark? Like fuck dude.

Hurr durr hurr b8 tredz hurr durr kill urself Ivan hurr durr hurr durr

See I can agree that factory farming is kinda fucked. They're just so pretentious. It's the holier-than-thou attitude that makes me not want to care about their view point.

Lot of you fuckers seem to have never taken a Bio course. So listen up you primitive screw heads:

Most of life does require something to die for it be able to function. IE plants need some way of processing inorganic nitrogen in order to have a way of making nucleotides (DNA and shit) so they can make proteins.

Human beings are at best omnivores. Now, I don't know what fucking articles on the cumrag of a news site you read once said, but there is no reason why you have to eat meat to survive. There are no mental effects from a vegan diet. There are some studies that SUGGEST that eating meat can lead to cancerous effects. Due to our need for modern agriculture, pesticides also have some health effects that arent fully tested yet, so really just try not to eat too much saturated, trans fats and lower actual sugar content.

The real issue is morality. You can have zero empathy for animals or not, but the only argument people really have to eat meat is that it tastes good, god says its cool, and I have always done it.

Those arguments were used for slavery (it feels good over tastes good but there are some stories of some weird slave owners) and why the earth was flat.

Dont be on the wrong side of history

I eat
That’s pretty much it. It’s not even out of spite, just stop calling me a monster

General nutritional logic and physiology of the brain isn’t a source.

Name one plant that contains the saturated fats and omega-3 Fatty Acid’s that make up the brain’s composition?

would you have a problem with someone buying the meat of a serial killer so you could also enjoy it? thats the equivalent if you care about other beings the same way you do about humans

So are animals who eat other animals immoral?

If it's about killing living things, is killing a plant to eat it immoral?

Facetiousness aside, humans are omnivores. We have evolved to wat other animals as part of our diet. It is not immoral to feed yourself even if it costs the life of another. Much like it's not immoral for a lion to eat a person. Lions are animals that eat other animals. Humans are the same thing. You can argue ethics about humane treatment of livestock sure but arguments about meat is murder is foolish.

You’ll need to clear up that question a bit. Are you asking if I’d buy meat FROM a serial killer or if I would buy the meat OF a serial killer?

its as easy as asking google

chia seeds, brussel sprouts, ...

buy meat off a serial killer who killed other humans to get it.

farmer kills cows, sells cow meat.
serial killer kills humans, sells human meat

they have 0 choice in the matter. we do.

They don’t contain saturated fats, and the omega-3 they contain is so minuscule you’d need to eat your body weight and more to get the same as you’d get from a single fish.

>vegans are too vain
>not like me
>I'm not like that

I'm sensing some irony here.

Alright thanks. Now I’ll answer with
Cows =/= humans

you only asked if they have it. you could literally extract the fats from the sprouts and eat it.

you do know this is what humans do, right? they problem solve?

but do you know how many animals get killed so farmers can protect their lettuce, beans, potatoes, tofu etc?

Unless you're going out to gather your own food, Being vegan is just a label, it doesn't make you less humane.

the problem here is that you would need to justify why cows have less of a moral right to live than humans. i agree they arent the same, but why should that matter? are there humans that are so much alike to cows that we could eat them? or cows so much alike to humans that we couldn't?

Alright, then that’s a persons bodyweight worth of Brusselssprouts, per serving, per day. That’s a lot of sprouts to juice

you also lower the carbon footprint. the methane production from our beef industry is a significant greenhouse gas emission.

just one benefit. also less animals are killed overall and not all people use animals to farm anymore. they use tractors.

they arent the only kinds. theres literally a list. also brussel sporuts dont have the problem of being polluted by garbage dumping or mercury poisoning. fish isnt that healthy for people to eat anymore, generlaly

Animals are food and resources.

>be made for eating other animals
>feels bad when eating other animals

What is wrong with our specie?

Because cows have been bred to be food for centuries, while humans are their own class of cattle.

Kek. They actually believe juicing increases the nutrients. Where did you get that, a juicer info-mericial?

>What are farm raised fish
White people let their empathy make them soft

A lot of vegans believe vitamin supplements replace the nutrients they lose by not eating meat

It’s only occurred since the industrial revolution. Because that’s when the technology has been available to produce the needed inorganic substitutes needed to stay alive whilst on such a diet.

Vegans displace wildlife by their farming, creating newer, bigger areas for fruits and vegetables. Those animals starve and wither away instead of becoming a quick kill. More hunters help wildlife preservation through population control. If their are too many animals and not enough food sources then you have herds of starving animals.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil

Okay. Let's say for posterity that the previous guy doesn't believe what he is saying. It is irrelevant, because YOU DO believe that. Because YOU are saying that all these animals don't deserve to die. So you are saying that YOU do not care. Sounds a bit hypocritical, don't you think? Saying that it doesn't matter if other things (animals) that are feeling pain are or aren't comparable to other things (plants) that feel pain.

Get your moral compass checked if you want to call people out for the slaughter of innocents. It has been since time immemorial that things are eaten, hell, people are eaten every day. Not in the same numbers, but once again, numbers are irrelevant because it happens.

Good luck.

Yes, their believe is false. Ask any Vegan about Vitamin B12. You will go

a) no answer
b) ignored completely
c) shouted at

Another person who doesn't understand that crops are fed to livestock too. 2000 pound calves don't subsist off grass.

Rubbish. It is supplemented by almost all vegans. If veganism were to be applied to large scale then foods could be fortified with it.

o sweet summer child, the agribusiness lobbyists got to you too. i'd say yikes but you legit have no idea of how embarrassed you should be

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Literally how life works. Literally.

Do you really think animals would think the same if they were going to eat us?

You realize the best sources of b12 are meats and eggs, right?

I think you need to do some dictionary searches for the definition of sacrifice.....

>one example
>from a seed, not a vegetable or fruit

Rape happens naturally, does that mean we shouldn't do anything about it?

Vegans value animals over humans and that's the root of their whole argument but here's a what if for vegans, lets say if you snap your fingers you could end all animal suffering but it would also kill half of the human population, you're not told if you'd be one of the unlucky ones, it would also cause the death of all meat eating animals since, ya know, they don't have any food now, would you do that?

The supplements are B12analogd which are cobamides which actually increase the body’s need for B12

Calves aren't 2000lbs. And yes they do. Some people feed grain to their cows but most just let them graze and feed them hay with a small amount of supplements.

Europe sure doesn’t

Irrelevant because the end product is an consumable oil and it's readily available.

Evidently I do or I wouldn't have said supplemented.

If you need supplements you’re eating wrong. It’s just that simple

What about taking his point into consideration?

Late to the thread but lets be 100 percent honest with ourselves. We dont eat humans because A we taste awful. B social constructs and C we have easier food choices. Anyone that says otherwise is a fool

>to live is to die, faggot.

goddamn that was perfectly timed and funny af

Uh, duh? Cannibalism is a last resort

I can hunt about 7 different types of game. You have an oil that might give a third of the nutrients compared to consuming meat of any of the potential game.

Congrats

Holy shit you are clever, you also destroyed his point with this well meditated argument

They are. Google "weight of cow"

Adult male: 1100kg -> 2425lbs
Adult female: 720kg -> 1587ibs

Averaging that out: (1100kg+720kg)/2 = 1820kg -> 2006lbs

Beautiful straw man you have there.

Might I ask the last time you intervened when someone was being raped?

We can't eat animals, it's wrong! We're no different from them!

Animals can eat each other, it's the natural order.

Fuck your vegan shit

Apparently humans aren’t animals

>plot and plan various* ways to fight back and kill the enemy
Go back to /k/, tacticool

Let me make it more simple for you. If people tasted better cannibalism would be socially exceptable i dont get why people dont get that

I know that you might not understand English, but...

>Cow

>Calf

You can only be one.

PLANTS FEEL PAIN

Oh, homosexual, you swallow your extreme leftist propaganda then act like you know a thing or two.

where obviously aliens and don't belong in this natural environment

Let me make it even more simple for you. Humans are retarded, but they aren’t so retarded that they’ll just eat another human at the snap of someone’s fingers. They will eat another human as a last resort, not just because it “doesn’t taste good”

get back to me after you've banned abortion then.

>it's not a personal choice to be clean since that kills microbes

Amazing, we’re aliens yet we share DNA with things on this planet. Close relatives to apes and all that.

dunno bout the rest of the world, but vegemite contains TONES of vitamin b12

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Vegemite is flavored yeast. It’s also insanely salty

We do that now, but in a world were man as a first restort ate other people we wouldnt have needed to breed livestock for a food source we would just eat weaker humans

they really cant. no nervous system

You wouldn't abort an adult would you? Hurr durr, dangerous cancer and shit...

if you actually think cows eat more crops than people your actually delusional.

majority of paddock farming does not require substitution with "crops" only tiny farms do that

Leftists love fantasy what ifs. Facts piss them off.

yea of course our alien ancestors needed a native animal to splice with to allow our bodies to cope with the environment.... duhhhhhh

fun fact only the salt reduced version contains b12 ;)

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Sorry im confused are you saying im a leftist or what? Cause just saying it that way it can be read multiple ways

Feels good to know that you aren't at the absolute bottom of the totem pole huh

You have to invent imaginary worlds in order to continue your debate.

I made Mexican fried rice tonight and I used fortified yeast flakes.

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Nice larp

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I think he's Indian, they feed their cows better than they feed their slaves.

You know to fortify the yeast flakes they need to use egg powder

Not a debate, stating a fact the real reason we dont eat people is it taste bad and its not wide spread excepted hell there are tribes in africa that eat people daily. We just have tastier options in non shit hole countries. If we tasted better we would eat people daily

Africans are also extremely retarded

Thats not an argument

Not true.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanocobalamin#Chemistry

They aren't wild animals, cows, chicken, pigs have been bred and mutated over thousands of years to be food.

I stopped eating meat, not because of animal rights but because ranchers are the most useless segment of the population. They sit on millions of acres of land and fuck up the soil and water that runs off of it while practicing a business so unsustainable and unprofitable that they have to leach off of the government for subsidies in order to break even. Whenever the public tries to take away a little bit of their benefits they throw a fucking temper tantrum about "muh rights".

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They’re very low intelligence which means they’re animals by default and humans with mental retardation at best. Savages

You're naive if you think farmers take the capacity for suffering into account when breeding.

I agree which is why we should outlaw abortion.

If the argument was that there are "victims to consider", then your post means nothing.

Savages they may be but youre changing definitions to fit youre narative. They are human im not a fan either bug until someone changes the definition officially find a better argument

replying to troll thread!
woo hoo!

animals don't have feelings like us, so they don't feel or understand their death.

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But* jesus i need to proof

They don't suffer though, they're born, they eat, they're killed

That looks like actual shit

If animals had the choice they'd eat you too, there are no morals in nature

>They are human
Sub human, actually.

This guy makes good sense.

If you subscribe to that thought sure. But sub human still is human just a lower rank still above animals

except the nigger-child thing. i mean, we're all people, aren't we?

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Studies say plants feel pain....you monster

fuckin pruners

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