Are vegans morally superior?

Would depend if they were exploited or not.

No, not exploited. No more than any other pet. Just occasionally they shit out some eggs and rather than go to waste, they have some vegan friendly morning eggs.

Jamie pull up that video of the chimps

I guess. Depends on your interpretation of veganism. Wiki says vegans refrain from animal products on the premise that industrial farming of animals is damaging to the environment and unsustainable. Chicken eggs that aren't purchased aren't products and don't contribute to intensive farming.

Why do you think they're morally superior?

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They don't contribute to suffering and environmental damage.

What do you define as environmental damage? What about agriculture? Why is the suffering of a mammal worse than the suffering of a fruit?

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Well, more superior to the Chinese, because the Chinese are the worst lowlife degenerates on Earth.

Because people raised eating meat can't stop
It tastes too dang delicious
People raised vegan are blissfully ignorant eating bland crap
Hitler wanted to make a vegan diet mandatory by law after ww2 and name the soy bean nazi beans

Also eating dogs is straight fucked m8

Overfarming is ok for the environment when vegans say so

>morally superior
Considering morality is subjective. No

These are the cries of the carrots. You see reverend maynard today is harvest day, to them, it is the holocaust. This is nessesary.

If we didn't need them for food they wouldn't exist in the first place.
To live is to suffer. In the wild, if they weren't farmed, they've get eaten alive or the herd would leave them to starve to death when they couldn't keep up.
A natural death is nowhere near pleasant.

I think its safe to say we’re all morally superior to the Chinese

Livestock farming contributes to 18% of greenhouse gas emissions. That's more than cars, ships and planes put together. Livestock requires huge amount of grain, water and land. 1kg of beef requires 15,000 liters of water and 25kg of grain.

Mammals have highly developed brains and can process what's happening around them, you could ask the same about humans. Why is a human more important than a plant? Plants don't even have nervous systems. If the suffering of cows and pigs is irrelevant then we should be consistent and stop making a fuss about dogs being mistreated or killed.
You're gonna to troll better than that next time.
You can subsist off plants and it's way more efficient use of land and water.

>Livestock farming contributes to 18% of greenhouse gas emissions.
Irrelevant - growing crops still requires greenhouse emissions from transporting fertilizers, using machinery to work fields, diversion of water from natural flows and creation of damns.... the list goes on.

>Mammals have highly developed brains and can process what's happening around them, you could ask the same about humans.
That sounds ironically enough, rather anthropocentric.

Why does the existence of a nervous system distinguish whether an organism has the right to live or not? All it is is a Myelinated networked of cells that switch polarity in accordance with environmental stimuli - what makes the ionization of fatty cells so much more special than other cells?

>If the suffering of cows and pigs is irrelevant then we should be consistent and stop making a fuss about dogs being mistreated or killed.
I know I'm in the minority, but I fail to see the contradiction there. Dogs are fair game if cows are.

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No such thing
.t vegan

>this is bad

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>Irrelevant - growing crops still requires greenhouse emissions from transporting fertilizers, using machinery to work fields, diversion of water from natural flows and creation of damns.... the list goes on.
Yes but it would be within necessity and vastly more efficient. 97% of the world's soya crops are fed to livestock.

>Why does the existence of a nervous system distinguish whether an organism has the right to live or not? All it is is a Myelinated networked of cells that switch polarity in accordance with environmental stimuli - what makes the ionization of fatty cells so much more special than other cells?

Because a nervous system allows awareness and suffering. Why not become a cannibal then?

>I know I'm in the minority, but I fail to see the contradiction there. Dogs are fair game if cows are.
At least that's consistent.

i've met sheep that are smarter than retarded people. if it's okay to eat retards, it's okay to eat sheep

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It is not.

AR15s aren't alive, how can be kill? dummy

Plants produce oxygen
Animals produce carbon dioxide

>Because a nervous system allows awareness and suffering. Why not become a cannibal then?
Citation needed on 'awareness' and 'suffering' - i'm pretty sure only a very small amount of animals have enough hypercephlization to be capable of 'awareness'. How come complex AI isn't 'aware'?

Secondly, consciousness is a direct result of said hypercephalization, which means that the behaviors we interpret as being 'experience of pain' are merely us projecting our human experiences of those same embodied behaviors with the complex internal symbology that is totally absent from, say, a chicken. In the same way that early AI programs like LIZA gave the appearance of being speaking to a 'real human being'.

As for the question of cannibalism - firstly because it's stupid, imagine that human meat was even a viable enough to be farmed in lieu of other established animals, the very presence of members of the human race as being 'fair game' for farming would fundamentally put the social order at risk. This is the same reason we have laws and judiciary - not because of our morals or higher ideals - but because society fails to function and you get a 'tragedy of the commons' situation.

I do have moral views on this - but they are just as arbitrary as Veganism.

Dogs have been raised as companions since the days of Neanderthals
Only the degenerate Chinese and liberals would support eating man's best friend

KOKO THE GORILLA HAS A HIGHER IQ THAN ALL NIGGERS
SET GORILLAS FREE TO BE RAISED AS EQUALS
LOCK NIGGERS IN CAGES

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Human milk is pretty good for you though, all those sweet amino-acids.

>Citation needed on 'awareness' and 'suffering'
oh god, you're literally a neophyte to subject of animal consciousness and you're

making

reddit

spaced

posts

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I'm not a vegan but I'd say so, until they get up in your face about how you're evil from killing animals, practically dehumanizing you for it.

This is true, not economically viable to have a line of big titty bitches getting pumped constantly so you can have your cereal every morning though so it looks like dopey cows it is for now.

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No, if you don't eat the meat, someone else will. Protein is far better for you than plant matter anyway. Some vegans are straight retarded too, one of my GF's brothers is one and the fat fuck only eats candy!

>Criticizes formatting instead of content

No, I just don't project my human feelings onto fucking animals.

>Are vegans morally superior?
You mean that they haven't told you?

Not in the last 15 minutes, no.

>le everything relative so there's no point in thinking about anything

LIZA just looked for patterns in text. Current AI has not reached the level of being aware of the environment around it but will someday. The currents systems are clever statistics algorithms that do not have motivations.

I respect their decision and think if everyone did it we'd be a better species but when you force it upon people you cross the line into religious preacher levels of annoying.

yes...but nobody cares

He criticized the content of your post fist then your posting format
You're retarded

If you were starving you'd behave that way too, moron. It's called survival.

Apes are also known to eat their own shit so give that a try and see if you get jacked like an ape

Vegans don't understand the Mineral wheel and ends up with chemical imbalances that will ultimately lead to either faggotry, depression or both.

Younger kids with vegan parents will suffer from Malnutrition.
marieclaire com.au/sydney-couple-charged-malnourished-baby-vegan-diet

So the answer is no. In fact they're inferior.

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Looks like someone doesn't understand supply and demand. Also thinks plants don't have protein. I won't bother with you, retard.

What is the threshold for this 'awareness' (not my word btw.) thing?
Is the Lacanian 'mirror stage' analogous to it?
Which animals have it?

(I'm still wondering why the fuck I should even care - and animal can recognize simple cause and effect patterns associated with distinct objects... suddenly I should bestow upon it the same dignity as a human child that might grow up to be the next Dostoevsky or Plato? Huh?)

The most honest answer.

No he didn't criticized it, he made a vague insinuation that I was ignorant without even bothering to educate me because he knows that veganism is fucking and anthropocentric and that these tests in no way show the capacity of an animal to actually experience anything in anyway that resembles the depth of experience of a sentient adult human being.

They aren't starving in western countries, yet still behave like wild apes.
>muh 52% despite making up 13%

most of the vegans i saw are soi drinking lanklets, while carnivorous guys usually have the most muscle

the answer will always be no

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This

Men commit 90% of murders; therefore, men are inferior.

>Fuck

killing doggos is not the same as killing other animals

Why?

dogs are for friends not food

oh

Not the person you're responding to, but it's generally true that the complexity of a sentient being's nervous system correlates with the depth of consciousness that that being displays.

For example, beings with only a reptilian brian stem display basic impulses: fighting, fleeing, feeding and reproduction.

Beings with a brain stem plus a mammalian limbic system display those impulses plus emotions not observed in reptiles: happiness, sadness, etc...

Beings with a brian stem, limbic system and complex neocortex, i.e. humans, display all of those traits, plus conceptual thinking on top of it. It's no coincidence that the human brian is the "most complex structure in the known universe."

We humans tend to place greater value on beings the "higher up" they are in the hierarchy of consciousness and our laws often reflect this moral intuition. Some people believe that mammals in particular are worthy of a little more consideration than they've received, given the depth of emotion that they display.

No, meat is not "murder", but ethically, it's a lot murkier than most people want to admit.

veganism is fucking?

Look, I understand the Triune brain theory. I know most theories about 'consciousness' nowadays don't' see it as a singular phenomena but a interrelated hodgepodge of mental modules that we have adopted a single label for to describe because it's too complicated to dissect.
However - I'm still fundamentally convinced that Veganism is a fundamentally anthropocentric stance wherein more complicated organisms (i.e human-esque) are given more sympathy than others with less obvious forms of complexity... (say parasites, pathogens, fungal clusters etc. etc.). Especially since very few vegans actually base their stance on anything than a gut feeling of empathy for the animals, which I believe is a way more persuasive argument and something I will accept way more than these Loki's wager arguments about which organisms are fair game or not based on how complicated their neuronal capacity for internal symbology is.

*an

I have no idea how I wrote 'and' - one letter, world of difference.

veganism is fucking an anthropocentric?

Perhaps, but they also wither away in malnutrition, so their lifestyle is flawed thus invalid

You are an idiot. I love how vegans routinely claim Hitler isn't a "vegan" because he meat "now and again". First off, he only ate meat when he was a child. During the entire time he was fuhrer he was a strict vegan.

Sorry this doesn't fit your agenda, but truthfully most of the world's worst tyrants are disproportionately "vegan".

Only if they're retarded. Legumes like chickpeas and soya beans have sufficient protein and you make pretty good mince and burgers with the latter. Just need B12 supplements but if it were adopted on a larger scale foods could be fortified with it.

They believe themselves to be,
but their facile arguments are superficial and blinkered from the harsh realities of life.

Nicee!...one Elon.

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You're exaggerating. He was a vegetarian and not a vegan. A lot of them also had mustaches. Are they evil?

Hitler was a dog lover, guess we can't like dogs anymore.

of course they are but you can't ask this without getting dumb arguments back so it's pointless.

Fucking kek

In a sense, I don't really disagree with you, but the "empathy for the animals" is directly related to the fact that when you look into a dog's eyes, you can sense something that is absent when you look into a snake's eyes.

The hierarchy is real and we naturally intuit this, whether we understand it on a biological level or not.

One useful way to look at ethical veganism (or vegetarianism) is to see it as the latest development in human moral development. We start out egocentric, identifying with only our own selfish needs, then on to ethnocentric, where we identify with a tribe, group, race, religion, nation, etc. then on to "world-centric" where we can identify with people of all tribes, nations, etc...

If moral development is to continue, where would it go from here? I propose that it would begin to extend to a larger group of which human beings are a part of: mammals.

that depends on how efficient your body coverts those chemicals as meat is seen as the most efficient and most effective, and safest way to get proteins directly
you don't get the whole vitamin package otherwise including amino acids, and have to eat more in ratio compared to the meat
it's cheaper to just buy meat if you want proteins
legumes also has other chemicals that may overwhelm the body and cause hormonal / chemical imbalances when it's being converted into vitamins

balanced diet is way better and safer than vegan diet
vegans are inherently retarded

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I wish you could shoot all those slant eyed chinks in their faces. I hate Chinese and Koreans and most Asians

Did I miss something? When did reddit invent invent the paragraph?

Odd that a vegan is trying to idolize Hitler... he smoked more long pig than anyone else in history.

Veganism isn't a club you get thrown out for for not following the rules. I know vegams who eat eggs from a person she knows has well held chickens.

the dude on the ground looks like he go "noo doggies ;-; why>;(' and the other people look at him and go hah ur dumb nerd get a load of this guy it makes me anger

morals are subjective

Test

90% of dogs aren't any smarter than cows and are far dumber than pigs

All Protein comes from plants dipshit.
Notice how all the most muscular animals are herbivores.

Literally just meat, who gives a fuck, I'd eat

While technically correct your argument is useless because it could be applied to any moral consideration. May as just let serial killers and child rapers roam free with that attitude.

>at last somebody gets it
/thread

>this is how dumb vegans are
Just because there are moral conflicts doesn't mean they shouldn't be resolved. There is a moral need to protect children and innocents, which is why killers and rapists are punished.

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18% is an upper estimate, most estimates are lower than 10%.
Agriculture creates massive amount of pollution in and of itself. Agriculture uses around 85% or more (in California is north of 90%) of groundwater, a resource that is limited and decreasing in every major aquifer in the country, some more than others.
Agriculture creates massive amounts of nitrites, it accounts for a majority percentage of anthropogenic nitrates and nitrites in the water table and collecting at the mouths of rivers.

Dogs aren't any different than cows. Plants don't have typical nervous systems but they still respond to stimuli. There's no reason to believe that chemical stimilu that plants receive when harvested doesn't yield suffering, albeit chemically and physically different than mammalian suffering.

depends on what your concept of morals are. personally i believe factory farming amoral. I live free ranged meat or i prefer to hunt and fish my own food. morality is not something that can be empirically measured nor is there a universal concept of it so any level of superiority or inferiority is purely based on opinion.

Cannibal: "Your honor, morals are subjective."
Judge: "You're free to go."

Apes eat meat too.

This is a false argument

A nervous system doesn’t mean awareness. “Awareness” is generally accepted as higher level thinking, but even humans react to stimuli before consciously perceiving it.

If you are talking about chemical release when pain is felt, plants release similar chemicals when they are damaged implying you would be saying plants are aware.

>There is a moral need to protect children and innocents, which is why killers and rapists are punished.
Obviously. I'm pointing the flaws in your reasoning. You just called yourself retarded as far as I'm concerned.

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protein doesn't "come from" plants, it is primarily produced in animals, very few plants actually have viable proteins.

I am a vegan since about 7 years, that would behead a chicken because i think it is a meaningful and good death to serve someone else as food. It is beautiful in it's own way.

But really, i never experienced meat as very pleasent to eat. You can not chew most of it and the taste was usually pretty bland and boring. The smell of raw meat or organs is definitely not pleasant to me. All true carnivores swallow their meat. At best they rip it appart roughly and still swallow very big chunks. Humans always want to chew things which looks funny to me when they try this with muscle flesh.

The law was created upon those subjective morals.
In some places its perfectly legal to eat human meat.
Whats your point?

Do they have vegans in china?

And actually cannibalism is perfectly legal in many circumstances so yeah

I wasn't making a point about the law, I was making about about morality. If you have a moral argument that is so broad you could apply it to any moral consideration it's a useless argument and you may as well just become a complete sociopath. Why talk about morals at all or care about anything? ISIS? Rape? Antisocial behavior?

>I was making about about
Excuse my retarded skipping of words. My attention span is all over the place.

I don't know what to tell you bro. Its the truth. If our society valued what ISIS did noone would care. In fact thats precisely why ISIS exists, because someone in some society thinks its morally acceptable to be ISIS. Instead of ISIS we got meat
I mean, if animals are the same as us, and we value their suffering, what we're doing is literally worse than ISIS.

Lost friendo

I'm not suggesting that morals aren't technically subjective, I'm just pointing out that it's useless as an argument because you could use it to shut down any moral argument. Just because something is relative doesn't mean it should be dismissed. Everything is relative.

>you could use it to shut down any moral argument
Morals are opinions so its not like having an argument over them is useful anyway
In the end its just who's opinion is more popular or enforceable

>Morals are opinions so its not like having an argument over them is useful anyway
Would you bring that up in a discussion about raping babies or false rape accusations?

Almost 6 years ago i stopped eating meat and eggs since i was starting to think about the fucked process of having that meat, i have a respect view for animals whatever they are.
As for all other people they should not be eating meat since it is filled with chemicals and who knows what other stuff they are going through..
The only time i would be eating meat is when i am being starved or living in the wild where i hunt my own food.
Other than that i don't eat the meat nor the things that follows that are given to me by the system.
Gains debate is bullshit to a specific limit, i mean you could have a great natural body without eating meat but within the limits of natural.. but if you want to go extra then no you have harvest a lot of meat for it, but you have a lot of grains to make up for the lost proteins.
What i noticed about most the retarded vegans is that they buy special vegan food or whatever the fuck that is, which is also processed as much as the meat that you get to buy so basically they are too stupid to realize they are doing the same damage as anything else.
Make your own food when you know where it is really coming from and if you got no will to do that then shut the hell up and just roll with the system, do not force your retarded ass on others especially when you yourself are too stupid to understand the matter.

I have a pet dog and he is amazing as fuck you dont even know how loyal and loving he is. Serioudly your most likely retarded so you dont 7nderstand their 10imes more better 9f companion than a human is. Fuck asians for eating them and fuck you i dont wanna educate you assholes fuck

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Maybe you should stop hanging around bad humans if you think dogs are better.

vitamin b12 deficiency
and thats only whats well researched, you can't know for sure when you're cheating nature

yes. not eating meat reduces the overall suffering in the world, therefore it is literally a moral thing.

I've been vegan for 7 years, dropped a ton of extra weight and I feel great, would recommend.

They also produce nitrates that plants need so they can continue to make oxygen.

>not eating meat reduces the overall suffering in the world
Citation needed for proof.

no. Vegan diet requires a huge area for farming the crops
it's way more damaging for the enviroment than balanced diet

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>not realizing that most crops go to feeding livestock

no, but they think they are. it's a manifestation of insecurity. they need something to boost their fragile egos, and they feel that choosing to ignore our evolutionary history does the trick.

but don't judge them too harshly. mental difficulties are a symptom of the inevitable B vitamin deficiency.

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>not realizing that if animals were left unchecked they’d wreck the environment because most natural predators have been wiped out
Look at the damage feral pigs do yearly to agricultural business. That’s just wild pigs.
Now times that by a few hundred fold as cattle, domestic pigs, chickens, etc. get releases into the wild, unless you’re going to just euthanize all of them for no reason thereby increasing their suffering...

>I know I'm in the minority
Might be, but I too would eat just about damn near anything. I do dislike insects, though - something about the texture of the exo-skeleton I find gross. But yeah, I’d eat a dog, cat, frog, or a human.

I would further argue that, with lab grown meat, eating meat grown from a culture of human muscle tissue is maximally ethical meat. A person could provide their consent with complete understanding of the implications, undergo a quick needle biopsy to get a muscle tissue sample, and bada-bing: ethically sourced vat grown meat.

I hope there is a market for such things in the future, so you can go to a restaurant and have a burger made with the muscle tissue of your favorite celebrity, athlete, politician, or perhaps some exotic animal that you’d never be allowed to eat under ordinary circumstances.
>condor egg omelette with Kim Jong-un flesh
THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT

Except for that whole prion disease from eating your own species thing...

Not really. At best vegans are like people who carpool instead of driving individually, as the only morally relevant thing a vegan can be doing is having a smaller environmental impact.

indeed indeed. this will be a major social justic issue in the future though because of that reason

Prions can actually come from any animal, not just your own species. The issue is nervous tissue - scrapie, mad cow, the zombie deer disease, all of those are transmissible spongiform encephalopathies caused by prions. Lab grown meat from muscle tissue samples sidesteps this as well as parasites, paving the way for raw bacon sandwiches.

No it won’t.

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How can you have a social justice issue involving things that aren't members of society? Are we going to start letting cats and dogs vote?

If simply stopped forcefully breeding the numbers would go down drastically. It wouldn't have to happen overnight.

That’s a nice assumption you have there pal.
Since we’ve not tested lab grown meat to see if it causes prion disease from eating your own species, it’s at best a guess.

>more animals out there now from forced breeding
>let go and left unregulated
>assumes they’ll just stop breeding on their own instead of the opposite - uncontrolled breeding leading to more animals because once again - no natural predators left around

discord
======
.gg/EXdyf8g

no

no

Good job quoting numbers with absolutely zero factual sources backing them.

No. You know how many small mammals die to protect bean fields? A fucking ton.

Yep
/thread

They're not. Plants are life with no desire to be dead. Set one in a window and watch it move towards the sun. Life eats life.

97% of the world's soya crops are fed to livestock so it would be a lot less.

gotemgood

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No one is

yes

Why do you have canine teeth?