Is there a bigger mark for themselves in the business?

>Dude would've aged like a fine wine had he not fucked with all those drugs.
or had anything but shit tier hair genetics

>On the other, having the guy you're dropping it to say that he wouldn't do the same for you would make my blood absolutely fucking boil.
know what would help me cool down? knowing that I could make him look like complete shit in the actual match AND I'm about to get paid loadsofmoney from WCW AND I'll never have to work with these cunts again

it's fake. drop the title.
When even Cornette who loves Bret and hates Shawn Micahel's guts says Bret should've dropped the title, you know you've fucked up.

It's not a rational way of thinking user, but it is how you act like a man in a fake sport full of faggots.

Shawn was objectively a very good-looking man in his prime. All his "sexy boy" persona didn't come out of nothing.
If only he could stay off the drugs like you said he would look much better today.

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Two points of contention.

1. Shamrock was more over.
2. For you. If you like wrestling to look like pillowfighting then sure. Shamrock was not as polished, and the consequence of that is that his offense looked more realistic, which is a good thing, because you hook audiences into an emotional response (which is the point of pro wrestling) by suspension of disbelief. Realism = suspension of disbelief. Overselling = bad wrestling.
HBK has great timing but that's it imo, the value of having great timing for complicated sequences is not as valuable as making people shit themselves with your regular offense. So "good worker" is kind of a smark meme. An example of this is kazuyuji fujita as IWGP champ who everyone blew up for being shit, but his matches were hot because he made people sit on the edge of their seats wondering if he was going to concuss his opponents, and that atmosphere built an engrossing story which elicited a strong emotional response from the audience, who watched in horror as he shoot soccer kicked Shibata in the head over and over in the hottest match NJ had seen in years.

Good "worker" is a meme IMO. That's part of why I think it should've been Shamrock. He was also just plain more over than HBK. Bret was doing the right thing (ironic for a guy obsessed with good "workers" and being "safe" to the point of boring repetitive faggotry).

Even so, the WWE should not have indebted itself to an upstart like UFC. In this case, what would have happened had it gone under or had a scandal?

While there was a moment in time when Shamrock was over and the fans would've accepted him as a world champion, he was one of the worst ever on the mic that's ever been in the business

Go watch his night after King of the Ring 98 promo. Truly dreadful delivery.
youtube.com/watch?v=vJyCS9o2gwU

Under no circumstances was Shamrock more over than 90's Shawn. The nineties was Shawn's peak stardom.

Reasonably good argument I guess.

I believe he could have worked with being bald

Cornette's rant a few year ago makes sense now how he thought it made no sense that he cant lost in Canada

Not to mention he made sure he went over ever WCW star he could just to inflate his ego, probably the only reason they brought in Sting

HBK is my favorite but I have no problem admitting that Bret was in the right there. Shawn avoided the job at WM 13, made the "Sunny Days" comment, then straight up told Bret he wouldn't do a job for him after Bret humbled himself to him. Bret was in the right for not wanting to lose to Shawn, but Vince was in the right for wanting to get the title off of Bret asap after news got out of Bret's signing with WCW, so it created the perfect mess for the screwjob to happen.

Still, HBK >>>> Bret though

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The Rock

bret phil and paul are the holy trinity of self marks
and they all hate each other, except for phil and bret

shamrock's mic skills were laughably bad. one of the WOAT talkers

how about Goldberg

Punk, HHH, Horsetty

youtube.com/watch?v=WDgLWGJ0-8o

Yea Forums

Every champion has refused to do a job at some point. The biggest marks are the people who think Bret was doing something unusual.

>Still, HBK >>>> Bret
at sucking dick maybe kek

This but unironically

I think over the years I just get more confused if this whole thing was staged or not.

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did Rock ever refuse to put anyone over?
dude gave a lot of people their first ever world titles

I can see why Vince hates building stars, they dont know they fucking place. You are leaving the company, you drop the fucking belt. Sasha Banks will be living off flogging diet plans on instagram soon enough.

>nobody has mentioned botcha

cmon guys

I don't think Vince knows how to build a superstar anymore.

Hey buttface, the guy above (You) just did

Rybacks is a pretty big mark for himself despite doing nothing

I actually met Bret Hart and got his autograph. He didn't even look at me. You couldn't take photos with him and had to have them taken while he was signing ONE thing for you. There wasn't supposed to be a limit but he changed that because he didn't want to stay.

>I actually met Bret Hart and got his autograph. He didn't even look at me
that's probably because of your disgusting appearance.

i mean, looking back, you're right. but, I was nowhere near the worst looking one there. he didn't look at anyone.

Better than Shawn who suddenly "lost his smile" when it was time to let new blood take his place

Warrior
HHH
Punk
Ryback

Then got a 'career ending' back injury when he wasn't going to be a main eventer anymore.

He's like 55. H s actually doing ok. More than half of dudes are approaching bald status in their 30s

Most people his age go bald. At least he's not holding onto the last strands of his hair like Undertaker.

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Maybe if Vince had actually honoured the 20 year contract they wouldn't have had these issues, since Bret wouldn't have had to leave.
Randomly (falsely) telling someone you can't pay your contractual obligations and that they should leave the company is what started all this. Vince is entirely to blame.

Not all of them. Triple H is still 0-4 against Alex Wright.

Yeah this is some serious revisionist history.

Shamrock was popular, but late 97 HBK had nuclear heat.

Is there a bigger E Drone mantra than “Bret screwed Bret?” Vince and HBGay were in the wrong 100%, there was 0 chance Bret would have shown up on WCW with the belt because he was a company guy through and through

Bret screwed Bret.

Imagine if Josh Brolin said he didnt want to job to Robert Downey Jr in their movies.

>oh I'll drop the title alright Vince, to either not the guy you've explicitly chosen or on a far less important show than a monthly PPV
Bret screwed Bret.
Pretending we're all dumb marks that think he was literally going to leave with the belt otherwise won't change that.

I don't get you faggots. Having pride in your work after putting everything into your craft is considered being a mark? If anyone EVER deserved to take pride in his talent it was Bret fucking Hart. Vince shouldn't have given him creative control if he didn't want him to have it.

I can never take threads like this seriously because I know 95% of wrestling fans are blatant hypocrites when it comes to the "he's a mark for himself" argument
Most of them will go on and on with examples of how one wrestler is a mark for himself, while completely ignoring/justifying all the examples of another wrestler being a mark for himself because that's "their guy"
Don't bother calling out one self-mark if you can't call out the rest. And there's PLENTY of those in wrestling, not just the Shitman

HBK had almost nothing to do with this. There was some kind of heat between them, yes, but nothing too dramatic. It was actually Vince first whoo took that decision and then Haitch who lobbied it as well. Shawn was trying to talk about this and the belt to Bret until the last minute until he saw that Bret was adamant, so he said "whatever" and did what they told him.

Sun damage did him worse than the drugs. He turned into an old man almost overnight about 2 years ago.

You're crazy if you think Shawn wouldn't have still been a main eventer in the attitude era. He would have comfortably been the no.3 guy behind Austin and Rock

the fact that he came back to wwe after they killed his brother was a much bigger mark move

Sasha
Haitch
90's Michaels
Hogan

it wasn't at all necessary because it wasn't supposed to bret's last night in the company and there were a lot of guys you could've put it on other than shawn

still i get why vince did it especially when you consider what a control freak he is