RAW RATINGS FUCKING PLUMMET

Listen to the Truth With Consequences episode where he re-books current WWE.

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What the fuck? Russo gave us substance every week.

>easy ratings

Ratings is ratings what u on about? Haven't been that easy to get for the past years.

>Russo gave us substance every week
cringe

I don't know, maybe watch an episode of RAW from 1998 and see how intigruing the plotlines were for a wrestling show. They wrote it like a TV show. Current creative team couldn't fathom doing and segmenting a show like that today.

Late WCW is leagues better than modern WWE.

Link please

Its not just the fact that they are driving forward with flip fags and indie shitters its the fact that they arent giving them any substance or character to work with.

Austin wasn't a big guy. He's 6'2 and just slightly heavier than Rollins. Guys under 6'5 can carry the torch. It's not about size, it's about the substance.

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youtube.com/watch?v=3IbaUW_nmCc

Also here is some cliffnotes if you don't want to listen to it all although I'd recommend it:

pwpodcasts.com/2018/12/19/recap-and-review-truth-with-consequences-russo-filters-mcmahon-and-fixes-wwe-how-braun-strowmans-character-was-killed-the-star-who-is-being-wasted-gimmicks-that-dont-make-sense/

Lol no. Ratings do matter and so does prime time cable TV because that's where advertisers come into play.

>everyone watches it via the Network.

they wanted 2 million subscribers by the end of the first year

they have 1.5 after 5

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If they want to draw viewers back (or at least slow the decline), WWE has to maximize both the quality of the writing/storytelling and the quality of the matches, and you cannot do the latter pushing the least athletic people on the roster i.e. the women.

>The audience was up 12 percent from last week's show.

The rating fucking SKYROCKETED ya pinhead

>catering to smarks
by constantly pushing such notable indie talents as roman reigns and brock lesnar?

maybe it's because a bunch of people took stock of how bad WM32 was and said "nah fuck it"

good thing they had that bar run in and tag match during the main event to reward viewers who naively gave raw a second chance

russo wrote more trash than he did gems but at least his berzerker style packed tons of shit into every show. it's fuckin unforgivable that they have a roster as large as they do now but book a show for one half its size

One thing that consistently drives network subscribers away is the absolute dogshit UI staight from 1998. You would think that a company with this much video footage in their service would introduce strong search and playlist options for the users, but hell no.

Oh you want to watch all the episodes running up to this particular PPV to rewatch the entire storyline/ feud? Tough fucking shit unless you remember the episode numbers yourself.

So you searched for all the RAW episodes made in 2002 to help with searching? Yeah were going to give search results to you in a random order instead of chronological, and throw in every single possible result that has "2002" in it's description because fuck search engine optimization.

Let's just finish the whole thing in this 2001 Winamp skin to really make any customer hate themselves for paying actual money for this user experience.

People don't watch TV anymore. People also know they can see all the interesting parts on Youtube whenever they want, and skip all the filler. There's just no reason to tune in at that specific time to watch two and a half hours of filler

Raw and Smackdown are still in the top 5 rated cable shows every Monday and Tuesday night

Yeah that's why RAW's rating doubled out of nowhere for that anniversary show a while back. There's an audience still out there

People watch TV now more than ever.

>Catering to smarks
>Has the Revival buried constantly
>Books Lacy Evans to just walk in and out annoyingly and expects this to build to a feud with Becky who in kayfabe just beat the strongest woman on the roster
>Doesn't book any NXT talent correctly
>Harper is a complete afterthought
>Pairs Drew and Bobby up with Baron Corbin
>Turned Rusev heel when he had face momentum waiting to be used
>Nia Jax and Tamina are still employed
>Kurt is retired by Baron Corbin
>Baron Corbin is still employed
>Braun wins an inconsequential title
>Everything with the Raw after Mania
user I don't fucking think you know what a smark is and what people actually complain about.

WWE does not need another racist

Netflix or actual TV?

cope
retard

you zoomers really have no idea how the world works. WWE isn't losing viewers, MOST people nowadays don't have cable. WWE makes up it's viewership on things like Hulu and the Network and other streaming services.

Look up the ratings for everything on USA, it's all gone down. Nobody watches tv any more. It's just how the world is now, even HUGE musical acts and festivals have had a decline in attendance because people choose to watch streams of concerts now vs traveling states away to see live stuff.

don't be a retard.

Cope about what?

The ratings were respectable even during Seth's first run in the main event until Sting told Seth in a promo that he was no HHH and how great and badass HHH is. They lost 700,000 viewers who never returned in that moment and then another 300,000 left once they learned Sting was almost killed in the ring.

One million viewers gone and never came back in less than one month all because of a weird promo to put over HHH and the reality setting in that fans would never see Sting vs Undertaker.

Find a chart showing this period and you'll see this is true.

it's not coping, it's just a fact of life
why wouldn't 1,000,000 people just use Hulu and watch commercial free SD and RAW episodes the next day? THEY WOULD and that's why people do

WWE doesn't even get 500,000 viewers that way from Hulu back when they used to report the data on that.

cope

Uh no shit, Hulu just started pushing their live TV stuff really hard the past couple of years.

faggot

ya cope and ya can't even see it lil guy. sad.

go back or learn to type like an adult. nobody has time to decypher your zoomer buzzwords

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Can't be done

Tv ratings in general are down. WWE stock is worth more than it ever has.

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Which demographic is to blame?

If it's the boomers I'm not even considering this a problem, it's a good thing

Raw/SDL appear on the network a month later

NCAA Championship was last night

Balor beat Lashley
Seth beat Lesnar

Why are these matches even taking place?

The hole roster is filled with small indie guys top to bottom.

EC3 gets nothing while Ricochet and Alister Black get pushed.

WWE never used to be like this. They cater to dumb smarks who chant for AEW or CM Punk when they don't like something.

Real fans would chant bullshit and for The Rock.

Get a clue you dumb fuck.

So intriguing seeing whether Vals penis was really chopped off or not.

Holy cringeola

they are on Hulu 24 hours after the show.

No one would want EC3 around even in the worst eras. There's nothing that screams must watch about him. He looks like a weird jewish caveman, his intensity is laughable and doesn't match his roided body, and his promos all sound horribly scripted even in environments where it's not like that.

Can someone update this chart? I feel like all of the old ones are from 3+ years ago.

Hulu is not the WWE network

>cringe
You obviously weren't born yet, faggot.
Raw used to be a fucking event. EVERY week there was a "holy shit did you see that last night?" moment that was talked about on Tuesday.
Russo always said he tried to do at least 1 special thing in every episode of Raw.
Were some of these things, wacky, stupid, or over the top? Sure. But it's better than the shit WWE has been pumping out for the last 10 years.

Way too many dumb faggots like you on this board

jesus christ man, I was just saying that's another way to watch it because USA has a deal with WWE and Hulu so they can still get their ratings so it's on hulu commercial free the next day.

>People don't watch TV anymore.
That's why Game of Thrones and Live Sports are doing so poorly, right faggot?
People don't want to watch shit and that's what WWE has been for a long time.
Put Attitude Era programming on you will have faggots filming their reactions of watching crazy WWE shit.

>That's why Game of Thrones and Live Sports are doing so poorly, right faggot?
they really aren't NFL has lost millions of viewers
and Game of Thrones hasn't been super popular in a long time, most people just stream it if they do watch it.

And we're talking about the WWE network ya reading comprehension lacking simp

Brother they had plenty of jobbers stuck in tag teams and the midcard that had all the skills he posses even going back four decades ago. He's not solid enough at anything to rise above it.

traps and MtFs

>they really aren't NFL has lost millions of viewers
They lost it during the kneeling controversy, but they bounced back this season (now that the controversy is over).
NBA, MLB and yes NFL ratings are very strong. March Madness ratings are very strong.
>Game of Thrones hasn't been super popular in a long time
Nigga, what? Pic related. The viewers go up every year.
Austin vs. Rock on a Raw would be the highest rated show in cable if it aired today (it would be ever network shows when you calculate streaming options)

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Why are you presenting the most successful show on tv as a standard?

>Why are you presenting the most successful show on tv as a standard?
Because it proves that people are still craving good tv. Raw used to be that. It thrived in an era where there was TONS of good TV. Game of Thrones has gotten worse over the years, but the ratings have gotten better because TV has become so shitty.
A half decent WWE would be setting viewership records in this current tv environment.

>Boomers stopped watching WWF in the 90s
>WWF changed to cultivate a new generation of fans
>Huge boom period in wrestling
20 years later
>Boomers stop watching WWE
>WWE grasps desperately at the remaining boomers instead of cultivating a new audience
>Historic low point in wrestling

lol seriously
how would GoT be doing if it had a show once a week every week for the last 25 years?
(hint: look at The Walking Dead, a show that was once the most popular show on tv)

>how would GoT be doing if it had a show once a week every week for the last 25 years?
You obviously can't compare a normal scripted drama or comedy to a weekly wrestling show, but the point remains the same.
In the late 90s WWE was setting ratings records despite having weekly shows for about 15 years previous.
People want good tv. WWE is fucking putrid right now. A decent WWE would have great ratings.

This isn't what happened.
In the late 90s WWE was recapturing their 80s fans (who were kids at the time) and making new fans with great content.
Now I don't know what WWE is doing. PG, SJW shit will win no one new.
In the 90s characters and stories won the war. WWE has forgotten that.

different times

This. What the fuck are they gaining by desperately trying to appeal to Bill the 60 year old Boomer

this, also sjws and stock exchange restrict a lot the product

>In the late 90s WWE was recapturing their 80s fans
Source...?

>What the fuck are they gaining by desperately trying to appeal to Bill the 60 year old Boomer
How are they appealing to a 60 year old Boomer? How does promoting vanilla midgets, sjw feminist and diversity schemes, and a complete lack of characters and interesting storylines?

Holy cringe. Have sex, old man.

>>In the late 90s WWE was recapturing their 80s fans
I was one of them, faggot.
Any 80s fan that still watched wresting was watching NWO on WCW. By making new characters and interesting, edgy storylines they got me (who was a teenager at the time) watching again. Then when the teenagers were on board the kids were right behind.

better times

>Holy cringe. Have sex, old man.
Keep defending this shitty programming, faggot.

Have sex, old man

>How are they appealing to a 60 year old boomer?
In just the last 3 days
>DX
>Taker
>Haitch
>Hogan
>Nash/Hall
>Angle
>The VARIOUS AND PLENTIFUL nostalgia angles in the last 5 years at the behest of younger talent
Are you absolutely retarded or just upset at younger talent? Can you really ignore all the Boomer bait WWE pushes out on a yearly basis?

you're over 40 years old and are still on Yea Forums and still call people 'faggot'?
CRINGE

>"I love WWE and will defend them on every corner of the internet" - you

You're a moron who just proved user right. You were a minority, the Attitude Era was about cultivating a new fanbase first and foremost, it was against everything the 80s WWF stood for.

Not him, but what else do you call a faggot?

Bro, all that was a very small part of Wrestlemania (which has always had nostalgia shit).
I'm talking about the last 10 years of WWE programming.

EC3 isn't over, you mook. He still smells of TNA.

>'m talking about the last 10 years of WWE programming.
Again "bro"
>The VARIOUS AND PLENTIFUL nostalgia angles in the last 5 years at the behest of younger talent

>, the Attitude Era was about cultivating a new fanbase first and foremost,
No it wasn't, faggot. Most of the AE fans were Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior fans.
it was against everything the 80s WWF stood for.
True, but it's fans weren't. They wanted something new and got it.

>Most of the AE fans were Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior fans.
Lol? Source?

(You) should have sex ASAP, old man

>>The VARIOUS AND PLENTIFUL nostalgia angles in the last 5 years at the behest of younger talent
Again, very small parts. Roman Reigns, Shield, Daniel Bryan, shit storylines, and too much shitty content have ruined WWE.

Bring back Ryback and give him the title.

Not even a good WWE would draw. Wrestling is dead, If the Rock was there ratings would be the same. Wrestling is viewed as extremely niche neckbeardy weeb level of cringe by normies.

>he hates based Big Dog and based Big Beard
Holy cringeola at this simpola

>"I like Roman and vanilla midgets".
There's a reason why the AE had monster ratings and this shit doesn't.

>Wrestling is viewed as extremely niche neckbeardy weeb level of cringe by normies.
Umm...because WWE made it that way? Fucking simp.

>Not even a good WWE would draw
Not true.
The ratings for live sporting events (yes, WWE is in that category) are still strong. If WWE made some changes (better storylines, better use of characters, cut Raw down to 2 hours, etc). Ratings would go up.

For as much as we crap on wwe. They really know how to cater to their dumbass fans who will lierally defend anything and everything they do.

Captain marvel really messed with you peoples heads. Calling someone a virgin because they disagree doesnt mean you win.

>Bryan
>vanilla midget
Lmao nigga you don't even know what you're talking about, proves that every boomer is a dumbass

this

Actual tv

This. It's basically like the MLB. There was a great article wrote about it a few weeks ago. Baseball is in danger of dying down the road because they can't get enough new fans. But at the same time they are afraid to change things up because the core of their audience of old boomers.

At some point WWE and MLB will finally have to say fuck the boomers, we gotta make a change. Or die once they do.

>But at the same time they are afraid to change things up because the core of their audience of old boomers.
Wrong.
Baseball already changed. It's nothing but HRs and strikeouts and faggy stats like WAR, exit velocity, and launch angle which boomers don't care about.
Boomers don't understand what baseball is now. Zoomers don't like it because it's longer and more boring than ever (constant pitching changes, no ball in play action, just HRs and Ks)
If WWE went back to Attitude Era mentality, the product and ratings would instantly improve.

>If WWE went back to Attitude Era mentality, the product and ratings would instantly improve.
In what way? Be specific, because 90% of AE was surprise endings and terrible match ups with run ins.

>In what way? Be specific,
Here's a few things:
>2 hour Raw
>no more commercial breaks in between matches (this was rarely if ever done between 1998 and 2002)
>cut down on the fucking LEDs and go back to simpler set
>have properly planned out storylines that play to the wrestlers strengths
>have so twists and surprise endings (they're not a bad thing)
>give wrestlers more free reign on the mic (they would give Rock and Austin a few bullet points on the promo sheet but let they let them do whatever they wanted with the rest)
>big factions
>stop burying the talent. I know they don't want them to leave, but them getting so big they leave should be the WWE's goal. It means they succeeded with that talent and got to his/her full potential
>stop with PG nonsense (a little more violence and cleavage never hurt anybody)

>going out of your way to defend a company that pisses in your mouth on a weekly basis

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Just stop user he's clearly never seen a minute of AE if he he has to ask how and why that would fix anything.

One thing I don't get about the folks who scream over and over again;
"The ratings don't matter! Everyone is watching on other platforms that we have no way of tracking!"
Before the network existed, WWE had been steadily dropping in viewership and attendance, year after year, since 2001.

What makes you think, that with even worse booking and fewer "stars", that this trend just suddenly reversed itself and everything is fine and dandy now?

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Fanboy delusions. I've seen it for 20+ years.

>replying to yourself
Bruh...

Not me, faggot.
Why would I post all that green text just to reply to myself? (that and it takes going through 9 captcha screens to make a post)

This.

The level of delusion with these people is unbelievable. They'll make every excuse in the book for why it doesn't matter while ignoring the fact that no matter what they say, it's still happening. Less people are watching. Less people give a shit about WWE. Year after year. In 5 years, it's just going to be the international crowd that travels for Mania weekend going to every show because there won't be anyone else left.

E Drone are the kings of cope posting

>no more big dog
>ratings tank

hmmm

They never left the Attitude era mentality. The show layout is completely unchanged and they've been doing evil authority figure storylines since the fucking Clinton administration.

The solution is simple. More lewd match types for the women. Big boost in the ratings for sure.

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>They never left the Attitude era mentality.
see

it's almost always on the RAW after Mania

the AE only was started because Hogan had turned heel and WCW was super popular while WWF was floundering. Warrior's return also got huge ratings for WCW

lol MLB dwarfs apehoop in attendance. just look at the contracts with guys getting 300 million plus

>lol MLB dwarfs apehoop in attendance
MLB attendance has been way down. It's getting to be a problem. The NBA is surging (even though it fucking sucks because it's basically a 3 point contest nowadays).
> just look at the contracts with guys getting 300 million plus
That's just because the MLB players union is the most powerful in sports and there's no salary cap on contracts.
NBA and NFL have strict cap laws.

>Catering to smarks
The Fed can't cater to anyone. That's the real problem. They have to be all things to all people but the only ones who show up are people that would watch anything as long as it has wrestling in it.

lol the big teams get 500 million a year for their tv deals and attendance was down last year but they also had the most rain outs and there were a lot of shit teams last year especially the American League. Even then it's more than they were getting historically

baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/misc.shtml

>the big teams get 500 million a year for their tv deals
TV deals have nothing to do with attendance. The price of going to the ballpark being very high + a game that's becoming nothing but HRs and Ks + a game that's longer than ever = lower attendance.

>apehoop
my fucking sides

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Drone logic. Pic related.

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so why do taped episodes of RAW do terrible?

I havent watched wrestling since 2014-2015. How shittier is it now since then? Heard stuff recently of WWE losing some top talent to that new wrestling org, so I started browsing again.

It's literally the worst it's been since Vince bought the company from his dad.
We're in a wacky world where people sports and wrestling live (as opposed to DVR) and it's surviving no matter how shitty it is.

Unironically? Elias. Over as fuck, tall, huge, focus on mic work instead of workrate and flips, and has the best ratings retence

Im in the same boat user. It would blow your mind how this company make any money. Literally the worst product theyve ever put out.

It somehow finds a way to get worse every single year.

actually elias isn't over, the music is. the second the music goes away no one cares about him

The shittier they are, the more money them seem to make, just like McDonalds. It's fucking crazy

Stone Cold and The Rock full time and uncut every week couldn't save this shit heap. Expect 1.9 ratings next year and 0.7 the year after that.

That's a lie that people keep repeating for some reason.
Go watch his matches during his face run earlier this year. He was getting bigger reactions than Seth Rollins. The match he had against Lashley actually not only had far better crowd reactions, it did better ratings than the Rollins/Ziggler match the same night.

Cringing hard on some of the cope post in this thread. But some of you explained really well why AE was based and todays product is shit. But the most annoying part is that it is fixable, it would just take time for fans who left to take notice again.

You can hire all the best writers in the world and it won't mean shit if you are hell bent on 50/50 booking the fuck out of everyone. No athlete in either sports or entertainment has ever gotten over by losing as much as he wins.

Mike Tyson, Goldberg, Anderson Silva, Hulk Hogan, Donald Trump, Stone Cold... all these fuckers had epic win streaks.

No one would know who the fuck Tom Brady is it he went 50/50 his entire career.

That 50/50 booking will end the WWE.

Becky Tapped Clean to Asuka in the middle of the Ring at the Rumble... And Asuka goes on to lose in her match on the Kickoff show... Youd have to either hate your fans or be fucking your own daughter to book that dumb

>This
Quit being a shitter Vince and hire some decent developers

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Vince McMahon.

Unironically, he is the only man who can think a day and say "Hey, I'm going to hire a good team of good writers who could know what the current audience wants to see in all the segments and I'm going to stay aside a time."

OH NO NO NO NO NOOOOOO!!!

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*save your company*

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dont worry guys any day now this whole womyn's evolution and SJW pandering is going to pay off and ratings are going to SKY ROCKET. Once Finn Balor's gay tranny angle begins we're going to be back in the green

>>give wrestlers more free reign on the mic (they would give Rock and Austin a few bullet points on the promo sheet but let they let them do whatever they wanted with the rest)

I want to add one point to this. Guys like the Rock didn't go freestyle on the mic, saying shit on the spot. He did write his promos but he had full creative control over it's content and collaborated with some guy(Gerwitz ??) for his promos.

>EVERY week there was a "holy shit did you see that last night?" moment that was talked about on Tuesday.
>Russo always said he tried to do at least 1 special thing in every episode of Raw.
Yeah, that's the problem. That's not substance. It's souless flash-in-the-pan moments for cheap heat. That's not any better than the pandering we're getting right now.

Elias sucks in the ring, though. He's being used to the best of his capacity right now.

>That's a lie that people keep repeating for some reason
whats effectively know as lalalalala-Icantevenhereyou-lalalalala

I haven't watched since around wrestlemania 31 but it cant be that much worse then when linda was running for senate, that was the worst run of raw i ever remember.

lebron is worse than 50/50

So why couldn't punk draw? He was an anti-authority God tier promo guy.

Face it neither The Rock nor Austin could reverse the ratings decline of this era. Heck I doubt they would even succeed considering their in ring work would be considered bottom tier in today's roster.

>muh SJWs
rent free

>Kurt is retired by Baron Corbin
imagine saying this online unironically a year ago

this company is super dead

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WTF THOS CAN'T BE HAPPENING BROS! THIS ALL CM PUNKS FUALT!

wwe cucked when they fell for and pushed the work-rate meme. austin was decent in the ring, with his god-tier micwork he'd be a top star today still, I think the rock would be too. zack ryder was trash in ring and on the mic and look how over he got in 11.

>Yeah, that's the problem. That's not substance. It's souless flash-in-the-pan moments for cheap heat. That's not any better than the pandering we're getting right now.

Get the fuck out here lmfao.

>there shouldn't be good moments all the time and the show should occasionally be boring on purpose!

If you are not creative enough to come with compelling show every week you should be fired.

Most people steal everything online nowadays. Especially the tech savvy 18-35 demo. Only simps continue to feed the cable jew

>So why couldn't punk draw?
Because he was a skinny fat anti-draw whose promos only appealed to a niche audience? I have seriously never seen a casual reference him or his promos.

>the AE had monster ratings
it had ratings appropriate to the times that featured "edgy" television. doing that now wouldn't resonate bigger ratings, this company is dying no matter what at this point.

Poor little brainlet. Throwing shit at the dart board for maximum views while not having a proper long term plan is what devalues your product to anyone with more than 2 brain cells.

You obviously didn't watch it if you think that the main draw was just the edginess for the sake of edginess.

hi russo, quit reddit spacing you're not on plebbit ya ding-dong diddly simp

Everybody watched TV then because there was no alternative. High speed Internet killed the TV star.

We are not in the 1970s anymore where you could do one big angle in every 6 months Jim. Especially in todays (and even back thens) ADHD generation. Its an entertainment show for fuck sakes.

And there are so many variables that can halt your "long term" plans. Russo said that they wrote from PPV to PPV so they knew what the main event for the next PPV would be and wrote the weekly shows according to that. I don't think they even write coherent shows from week to week these days.

WWE should make RAW an adult orientated and edgy with diva-ish women, hardcore belt, chaos etc.

Smackdown their kids one, PG, New Day etc..

205 live becomes a women's revolution show with "real" women wrestling.

NXT is for under 24yo only wrestlers. No more Samoa Joes etc spending time in development when they dont need it.

>I don't think they even write coherent shows from week to week these days
Exactly, and that's the problem. They don't think things through and are always changing shit at the time. And Vince Russo was the exact same. They're both the same trash.

yea they just called it the "Attitude Era" for shits and giggles, no that was 100% the reason people tuned in, it sure as fuck wasn't for the wrestling because that was complete trash too.

>russo
>trash

You can just check out OP's graph again.

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Better than today. Even the wrestling.

>what are different genres of television shows

I didn't know Russo was the booker in 2015, ya simp.

Of course it was part of it. But there was storylines creative writers todays couldn't even fathom to come up with on a wrestling show. Down to the little nuances and how individual characters acted regardless if they were a heel or a babyface. And wrestlers back then actually wrestled, not doing circus moves that look like they've been rehearsing them all day long.

>not doing circus moves that look like they've been rehearsing them all day long
Pretty sure they still did the Irish Whip back then, grandpa.

Well here's some longer downward trend for ya. Take few guesses who was the head writer during their peak?

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>Even the wrestling.
did you even watch the AE or are you just spouting nonsense from your childhood, the wrestling was 100% garbage during that era.

Attitude Era fags want it that way. Pretty sure they seethe at the idea of a normal match ending in a clean pinfall with no interferences, steel chairs or dusty finishes. To them, wrestling is only good with smoke and mirrors.

Not him but they could tell a better story in the ring than 99% of todays wrestlers. You must be one of those guys that has just been listening Bryan Alvarez shitting on everything about AE on his show because he has such a hate boner for Russo.

>And wrestlers back then actually wrestled
the wrestling today is much better today than during that time frame, not just in WWF/WWE that's just indisputable.

You obviously can't fahtom storytelling and protecting wrestlers. Yay, we have card full of wrestling matches that is about the thrill of victory and agony of defeat. It ends in clean pin. What next? We had a great wrestling match, can't wait what Meltzer rates it tomorrow. Simp.

Interferences made sense, why wouldn't your friends come in your aid or someone who you had beef with come and try beat you up?

>they could tell a better story in the ring than 99% of todays wrestlers
not without stupid gimmicks they couldn't. you're fucking retarded if you consider the AE "good in-ring story telling"
>name dropping a podcast co-host
pathetic

One problem is that nowadays promos go not only through vince, but through focus groups and lawyers who determine if that particular promo is going to hurt merch sales, seem contradictory to kid friendly make a wish-endeavors of the company or even draw twitter heat that could hurt the stock price and investors.

You will never see a white hot heel rip the companys top babyface a new one through a godlike promo like you used to back in the days. Making the top dog look weak could potentially have a negative effect on action figure sales. Unless there is a major change in operations CM Punk was the last true promo god we will ever see.

I think WWE should go back towards more edgy stuff in a separate entity like NXT and leave main programming for their kid friendly focus group. Some blood, cleavage and proper 90's camp would really resonate with more mature audiences. They should embrace the kitsch and redneck soap opera, turn it into one of their selling points.

Feels good to be a BrandChad bro’s

Wrestling is all about fucking gimmicks, chaos, drama, storytelling. Otherwise it would just be two guys in their underwear having a fake fight. What is the point of that?

You fags want WWE to book the ME roster like NJPW. That shit can't work when you have to produce a weekly tv.

Fucking this. They should embrace the fact it's wrestling instead of trying to desperately sell it as a "real" sport. Larger than life characters, breaking the fourth wall every now and then, having characters who take kayfabe way too seriously and other characters who make fun of them, occasional overselling, gimmick matches with insane stipulations, stupid storylines that make even the trashiest telenovelas blush. Explosions, monster trucks, screaming bald eagles, bah gawd he is broken in half!

cringe

I just want more long term thinking and less desperate re-writes for HEAT!!!

cringe

I'm so glad those shit days are behind us. WWE is not very good now, but at least it's not Russo-tier trash

Lmao people trying to downplay AE. This segment alone is more entertaining than anything they've done in past years. They don't even go outside of the arena anymore, let alone barely backstage.

youtube.com/watch?v=5eTUFI0sCcw

And that's how RAW went off air, with a cliffhanger. And here is what happened next week. Also ends with a cliffhanger right before PPV.

youtube.com/watch?v=LyQVyDM4jmk

Exactly, the entire point is cringe. Majority of reality TV shows are so popular because people watch that shit ironically to shit all over them at the watercooler next monday, but secretly they all love it and keep watching from season to season.

They should embrace the cringy aspects and stereotypes of wrestling to get people talking, no one cares about two dudes in tights without gimmicks doing a 15 minute headlock clinic because it's more realistic than the alternative.

Imagine character like the undertaker, but you have another character shitting all over his stupid undead gimmick and his insistence on holding onto it even as a old geezer. Like undertaker is doing the entrance in his leather batwing 80's glamrock outfit, but the other character has disabled the pyros for a spinal tap moment. He then proceeds to shit all over gimmicks in a promo, until all the other gimmick characters desperately clinging to kayfabe come to help undertaker. Then you get a angle where all these campy gimmick characters go against the "realistic" dudes in tights in a epic battle of gimmick matches and over the top promos. Everyone knows wrestling is fake, embrace it and turn it into a feature of the sport. It would even sell more toys to children audience.

Faggots like you two will never understand why wrestling is dying.

Regardless of the number of moves you could bust out if you don't have a distinct entertaining character it won't be as good. Wrestlers back then had their gimmicks and worked matches according to their gimmikcs and their position in the card.

We didn't have fatasses like Owens pretending to be "prize fighters" busting out 10 different moves to get cheap pops. Take Foley for example, worked brutal maniac who punishes his body with hardcore shit gimmick. Tooled his moveset according to that as well.

Even triple H had the sense to do something similar. Why the fuck does Rollins have the move set he does even as a heel? Sometimes the "complex floppy sequences" he did with others felt like dancing instead of fights.

>We didn't have fatasses like Owens pretending to be "prize fighters" busting out 10 different moves to get cheap pops.

That's the thing isn't it. WWF made undead bikers and vampires fit in their show but Owens as a prize fighter felt ridiculous.

I don't know whether to put that on owens or the creative.

Reasons why WWE is dying:

PC culture: probably main factor - There is some things Political Correctness shouldn't be a part of, one of them is wrestling. Its just completely lame now and unbearable to watch now. This is probably the biggest downfall and loss of ratings- people want exciting crazy tv - wwe has gone from being like Jerry springer to now being a boring doctor phil show. Always womens shit is boring if they're not in bras and panties.

Current roster: Most of the wrestlers look like my uber drivers and they have no unique personalities either. Most of them can't speak off script either (idk maybe they are told to stick to the script). They just all sound like robots, its terrible. I havent really watched contious espisodes for a while - who tf is this kofi kingston guy? He looks like a fucking cancer survior and has the body of a crackhead, is this his gimmick? What I saw at WM was wwe just needing a "black champion" - wish I put money on it, when i saw the match announced I could clearly see what was going on here. Relates to the pc culture point above.

Commentary team: One of the big things is the commentary as well - maybe its just my preference but without Jerry the King, Jim ross and tazz, the conversations dont really flow nicely...

Do you agree with these points above? What else would you guys add?

Also to people saying these viewer numbers are a natural decline due to cable, netflix etc. This is not the point, if a product is interesting and quality, people are going to find a way to watch it no matter what. Similar to a point above about live sport etc.

Lack of angles/storytelling, they've cut them down even more during the past year or so. Like what I'm watching for? Who wins next a match? Where are the angles like who ran over Stone Cold, Austin and McMahon one upping each other every week, lower card stuff like Bossman and Big Show etc.

>What else would you guys add?

Camerawork for me is the number one problem

Doesn't matter how good the in ring action is when the camera catches none of it

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>PC culture: probably main factor - There is some things Political Correctness shouldn't be a part of, one of them is wrestling.
cringe

>Most of them can't speak off script either (idk maybe they are told to stick to the script)
They're outright forced to recite them word-for-word and buried if they don't, Vince is a control freak like that. The only people that can speak off-script and get away with it are the likes of Cena, Daniel Bryan, Brock/Heyman, it's a small list.
Also Kofi looks really bad because he has that concave chest thing going, it gets worse with age. If you look at him from like ten years ago he was pretty ripped and regular looking.

I agree with the majority of this

On your point of commentary and wrestlers speaking off script - Vince is literally in commentary's ear the entire night feeding them lines, the wrestlers themselves are not allowed to deviate from the scripted promos that they're given

I think if you eliminate those two factors alone things will really improve.

Agreed!

Kys faggot

Damn, that sucks I feel sorry for kofi. :( - yeah word for word is just like watching a shit b grade film. More flexiblity has to be given in this area for sure

Not the guy you are answering to.
The thing about wrestlers and scripts is that wrestlers usually know more what their character is than the writers.
Vince and creative sometime hits on and sometimes just miss on a guy.
They rode the wave of Kofi for big pop at Mania, good job out of them. But they fucked up Becky shit very badly.
They just do not trust their own performers to deliver, which is a thing that hurts everything.

I genuinely believe that things will improve after Vince dies, the tear jerking memorial show will be pretty kino and bring in lot's of viewers, giving WWE the opportunity to do major adjustements while the media cycle is still on their side.

Of course, given how much of a health freak Vince is he still has plenty of good years left unless something unexpected happens, like his heart gives out because of all the partying and steroids in the 80's.

25+ with bad memory here, what happened after mid-2000?

Well Stephanie became head of creative October 2000. RAW moved to other channel around same time too. Generally I think they started lacking creatively towards the end of 2000.

what? wwe has millions of followers and youtube view. MORE PEOPLE ARE WATCHIGN TODYA THAN EVER BEFORE

>thinks things will get better with Stephanie at the wheel

Mate.
Stephanie will not have any kind of that power.
She is branding person, not creative person. And has been for years.

I forgot to add to this a major point.
Wrestlers breaking kayfabe:
Very hard noadays with social media and wrestlers wanting to get famous etc. Kills the spirit and story lines of wreslting as a whole.

So who? Triple H? Have you seen NXT, that will not draw normies. When rasslin takes its self serious it becomes a laughing stock.

i swear to god bro we gotta cancel nxt bro and make a new show called WWE SEX (Sports Entertainment Extreme) bro

you really really really need to move on from watching WWE, its not for gramdpa's or adult males without children

True... :(

I guess it will never be the same as it once was...

>that will not draw normies.
We do not know that.
Also have you seen Riddle, who is permanently high surfer bro?
Velveteen Dream?
Lacey Evans?
Kairi Sane?
Ciampa?
I don't understand how people are still here memeing how NXT is some fed that is based only serious competetion.
What the fuck? Are people watching?

Would watch tbqhwy

Whatever HHH ends up doing it won't be "NXT on Raw", NXT is like that because it's a show for a small arena watched by internet nerds. It'll probably start as a Vince imitation with some Haitch trademarks like overproduced entrances.

Seething faggot.

...

Vince McMahon

Russo should come back and give Stephanie a clown gimmick.

>ratings peaked with Kreski
>"it was th-thanks to Russo"

Russofags should be murdered

Are you braindead or what? They had very easy job to maintain ratings for awhile after Russo and Ferrara too put everything in place the past 2 years. They were just riding off their momentum. But how long they managed to do that? Not even a year.

>listen to the idiot smarks who call the era where you couldn't go ten minutes without seeing a new person with a wrestling t-shirt on "cringe"
>more focus on wrestling as a fake sport
>muh athleticism, muh workrate
>inject left wing identity politics, thereby alienating 50+% of the country, ESPECIALLY the kinds of people who would be watching your show if your product was healthy
>what you thought was a life vest because you're trapped in a bubble and are absolutely clueless (or are answering to people who fit that description for a quick buck in the here and now; same end result) turned out to be a backpack full of rocks

I'm not going to claim that the smarks started the decline, as that would be ridiculous, but they definitely represent a period that might finally send WWE where they've been heading for almost 20 years now: bingo halls.

You are a smark as well, you are one of the people who you are blaming for everything.

So much fucking cope in here.

>>>>M-M-Mah YouTube
Shut up, how many people do you know that actually watches wrestling on YouTube? Barely anyone.

>>>Hulu, Network
Again, Network has GLOBALLY like 1.6 million subs. They're not watching there either. Hulu doesnt do amazingly on Hulu.

Keep seething E-Drones.

>Hulu doesnt do amazingly on Hulu.
ohnononononononononono

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Attached: 1539556878478.jpg (1898x2274, 250K)

I'm gonna fucking kill myself, e-bros. WWE IS MY FUCKING LIFE! How do we turn this around?

Attached: 1533912933285.png (736x864, 41K)

Don't do it.
Triple H is going to save it with NXT

Still more than Gatoh Move.

Whatever you say, Vince

>inject left wing identity politics, thereby alienating 50+% of the country
I'd imagine it is worse than that for wrestling which was always a redneck type of sport like NASCAR. The vast majority of their fanbase isn't going to want to watch Finn and New Day prancing around under rainbow banners.

Different guy, but Dave says that 1999 WCW is reflective of 1998 WCW's booking. How is that not the same for the WWF?

Besides, Kreski wasn't the only one there on creative. Tommy Blacha and Brian Gewirtz were also part of it plus I bet Vince didn't let creative members have that much power that Russo had after he left the way he did. But the wrestling boom started to fizzle out towards end of 2000.

The last Wrestlemania had worse booking than WCW at its worst ever did

>main titles and the best matches in the midcard
>shitty womyn match in the main event
>retarded squash matches,the Universal title changed hands in 3 minutes
>show was 7 hours long so the crowd was pretty much dead after the fifth hour

Fucking this.

No they didn't. Cringe level faggots and mentally ill scum pushed regular people away like what happens in most things. When you have a regular family being harassed by some whiny bitches for not cheering for some dweebs hard enough throughout a whole show you have people who no longer wanna bother with the shit.

>that's what catering to smarks gets you,
What show are you watching? WWE gives the finger to smarks.

youtube.com/watch?v=Euu6Pio5VKY

Yeah this is totally good TV right?

Every fucking thing has massive faggots who watch. Look at any Philly sports team, those faggots deserved to get their shit kicked and raped like Nash and yet sports in general still get viewers. But shit like NFL is losing ratings because their games suck and they have no idea what they're doing(REFBALL!).

WWE is losing ratings because their shows suck and they have no idea what they're doing. Hope you like shit from 20+ years ago redone badly or pointlessly now. Time to shill or force shit because reasons! Not even 2 fucking months and WWE managed to get a guy who beat fucking cancer boo'ed.

>WWE doesn't want to make new stars
>constantly use the stars of the past to boost interest for events

brilliant

they made all the faces champions at Mania