Which game has the best/most satisfying skilltree?

Which game has the best/most satisfying skilltree?

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does anybody actually like skill trees? They're never unlocking anything fun it's always minmax autism to the easiest and cheesiest. It's a blatant skinnerbox of the worst kind, it sucks

>huge sprawling tree
>but 90% of it is just passive stats
definitely not PoE that's for fucking sure

It's the one thing Last Epoch really excels at.
PoE is too bloated and honestly kinda boring, and Grim Dawn is ruined with the retarded star chart system.

In theory, they work well.

It's about finding the best ways to "travel" through the nodes while picking the most important ones. And said nodes can have VASTLY gamechanging effects.
Hell, all classes have this same skilltree, they just start in different places.
So basically there's a ton of depth once the system clicks on you.

Whats the best ARPG that nobody talks about? It's always poe, grim dawn, and diablo.

Not PoE's, but it is a great example of "illusion of choice"
I'm convinced people who hold that tree in high regard either haven't played the game much, or don't make their own builds.
Every "archetype" will path almost the exact same way and change a few nodes here or there depending on weapon/skill/damage type

Last Epoch is shaping up to be great. Release should be soon

Any cool games with skilltrees that aren't one-player ARPGS? I want to play with various party members that fulfill different roles and still have a good amount of character customization for each of them

FFX with the expert grid

Anything that's not 2 decades old?

>massive skill tree
>90% is passives like +3 str or +6int
>a handful of shit that makes a difference at the tail-ends
>the majority of players still all play the same fotm spec for the season
I'd be more impressed if it wasn't mostly passive stats honestly. Why not make more of them build on combinations and choices between empowering or alterating those combinations/major changes? I'd rather choose between making my spells explode into aoes on hit, or casting a debuff on hit, or altering the mp cost + dmg done to be more efficient or faster and then going from there, making WAY more combination choices a la Binding of Isaac item combos rather than "get stats and then an ultimate"

Yes. Skill trees are the number 1 thing I look for in every game. It activates my neurons.

path of exile is one of my primary examples of games that are terrible with the illusion of choice. they make it look like you can be creative and make all sorts of unique and fun builds, but the truth is if you don't use one of the small number of minmaxed autist-made builds, you can't do all the content in the game. meanwhile a game like Marvel Heroes let you basically do what you want and you would be fine, even on raids, because the game was designed that way. path of exile is as wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

that looks cool but i know better.

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ANY skill tree with passive stats gains in it is guaranteed to be garbage

They kinda work like that, it's just that, depending on your starting class, which paths you choose to pick and all, you'll end up with a certain amount of these "gamechanging" nodes.

The theorycrafting is finding ways to pick specific nodes that give strong combinations while not limiting yourself too much on traveling longer distances in the tree so you can pick more stronger nodes.


Check out the bigger nodes, which have the most unique effects.

I'm well aware of how the tree works, I've played multiple seasons and even backed it at launch; it's really not that deep.

etrian games are only 1 decade old, is that good enough?
skill trees are a tad small but there's subclassing in a bunch of the games so you can pick skills from 2.

Are zoomies unaware that PoE ripped its skill system straight from a Final Fantasy game?

/oos hasn't been an issue in years, user

>try poe
>come up with my own build to use a character in an unconventional way
>game updates soon after and the build doesn't work anymore
i don't mind stat or skill points in a game but i'm not interested in having to plan it out like that again

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lol. ok.
every new (at least two-three years ago) the servers shit themselves
so they dont use auto-macros to auto log because of it huh?
>hp below %95
>auto log

new league*

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Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

Fight me.

i wont disagree but that game really bored me despite the cool skill tree, you could really tell it was a failed MMO they converted into a single player game

I enjoy a bunch of interconnected systems coming together to make up your build in an RPG, and PoE's is just one small part of that puzzle.
Though funny enough, I actually think PoE went TOO far in that direction with how many new systems have been integrated into the core experience, unless you play every year or so you're going to be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of autistic bullshit doohickeys you'll come across that you need to read 20 pages on a wiki to understand.

I miss when the skill tree was vertical like Diablo 2 but its still functionally identical
Coolest part is the trees for the skills anyway

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wooaaah so deep and I complex!!!
>HP and damage
Player agency, like democracy, is a joke
People will just follow a minmaxed guide because the game is unplayable without it

the only thing it activates for me is my almonds

borderlands the presequel desu

>not going full aspd archer and firing off arrows like a fucking minigun

It wasn't good but it got me to T15.

What kind of retard follows guides for a single player game?
>b-but trading!!!
what kind of retard interacts with the shitty economy and doesn't play SSF? This isn't an MMO, there isn't real PvP, that was tried a long time ago and it was a failure. It's a single player game and even if you're the competitive type the only leaderboard anyone cares about is HC SSF.

the kind that doesn't want to spend hundreds of hours only to fuck up and have to re-roll

Skill trees are like porn to me. A satisfying tree is a big + for me.


I do. Also they're zoomer/normalfag repellent and it makes me love it even more.

? /oos resyncs you with the server and only works if you don't use lockstep which is on by default. you'd have to be retarded to turn off lockstep
The servers are still shit and rubberband and have issues but /oos literally does nothing on lockstep

You can't fuck up your build THAT bad unless you're literally a brand new player. You get a ton of respec points for free if you change your mind. And you'll almost certainly want to make a second or third character on the same league anyways, you generally want a "league starter" that can get to endgame with shit items and then make more specialized builds that use your league starter's items. Those specialized builds usually use specific uniques you found and are built to either clear fast/safely or kill bosses like Uber Elder. That's true even for SSF.

I am hesitantly optimistic about Superfuse.
>Skill trees
>Effect trees inside individual skills
>Stat trees inside individual skill effects
>Fine number adjustments inside individual stats
Or something like that.
It sounds like it could be fucking beautiful.

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>/oos literally does nothing on lockstep
>enter delve
yarp that's just how it goes.

>You can't fuck up
sounds like you've never bricked gear crafting, ever.
or ever even tried crafting.

How did the star chart system ruin grim dawn? It's alright and you can fluff how you want

>the game has a deep and complex skill tree allowing hundreds of unique playstyles and possibilities for experiments
>98% of players just google OP builds and mindlessly follow guides
Name her.

I've spent more time on skill tree calcs than playing the games themselves
And I'm okay with that

>Name her.

Certainly not Path of Exile. Build diversity has been completely stale for a long time now.

every modern game that even slightly appeals to normalfags
games don't have genders you weirdo

>step on chaos
>ignores all my ammo and resistances killing me in an instant

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You mean a Chaos Degen?
Yes. GGG thinks making an extra damage type exist that is hard to gear for is a good idea.. and then they spam it.

LE is very nice for a well streamlined opportunity cost system with very little bloat but GD is also nice because the Star Chart can really make a unique build just like getting an RNG unique can.
If GD had a slightly better engine and animations it would remain the top of the genre. LE is going to beat it once completed.

just go chaos inoculation if you hate it that much, it's a lot easier to gear for a chaos inoculation build than it is trying to stack chaos resist on a non-inoculation build

Also GD's setting is pretty boring. The "cowboyish wildlands fighting bandits" makes me want to sleep

>Also they're zoomer/normalfag repellent
Do you have a single source to back that up?

post roguelites with skilltrees

Rogue Legacy 1 & 2.

It's my personal experience, why do I need to?

Dungeon of Dredmor has unironically a pretty satisfying skill system.

At the beginning of a new game you must choose 6 classes among forty. Classes are linear collection of skills, some passive buffs, some actives combat powers. At each new level you can advance any of your classes to the next skill. Each level up takes more XP than the last. So you can usually top one or two classes early, but then it becomes real painful.

It's simple, it isn't complicated to understand, and fuck if choosing the classes that has good synergies isn't the most kino as fuck thing. Then you must decide if you want to level up a passive class first, which most likely will give you absolute retarded bonus (which would be more likely needed later on), at the cost of the absolute retarded damages/skills of an active class. Which classes will you dip into? What synergies with other classes? Also will you take an utility class? And level it up, leaving you with less space for actually combat useful classes?

Fuck, the class system in Dungeon of Dredmor is literally half the fun of the game. Again, it's simple as fuck, and the most kino thing ever.

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Shame the devs shit the bed so hard with their city builder

>tons of skill points on level up
>able to respec and swap branches
>get extra skill points from sidequests
>impossible to completely fill so not braindead

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>pic not related

Crosscode. You start with just the middle part, but unlock the rest as you go through the story.

you spite yourself into thousands of hours worth of grind?

Oh, I've been thinking about getting it since it reminds me of Alundra. Any decent?

Salt & Sanctuary skill tree looked pretty impressive even though it is mostly stat upgrades

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Yes, but what Warframe has to do with this thread?

You're joking? Wow and diablo 4 are going back to skill trees because everyone likes them
You might actually have a developmental disorder

Fucking fantastic. Story's great, combat is great, soundtrack is amazing.

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idk about the best but I had pirated Chronicon while it was in early access and it was pretty fun and got quite a few hours out of it.
Now that it's been officially released I really should pirate it again to check it out and see if I want to throw a few bucks at it.