Were either of these good?

Fuck no.
That'd be the answer you're looking for.

TTYD is still my favorite but Origami King isn't far off. If Origami king had a normal battle system with level ups it would have been the best Paper Mario but for some reason Tanabe decided to have autism instead.

The ring system could have worked reasonably well if it wasn't explicitly a puzzle to solve. Just give Mario a variety of attack patterns to use that get increasingly complex and different ways to manipulate the field ala the Battle Network series.

Codifying the idea that there's a golden number of turns to finish the battle, and that the perfect arrangements see Square or Line, really limited it in a way that's pretty stupid. If it was to make it more accessible to kids that didn't really pan out either since they give children an auto battle halfway into the game anyway

Ironically, Tanabe said the puzzle battle system was to make the game appeal to the core players, not the children. It didn't work obviously.

My personal theory on Origami King, based on speculation, is that it went through the planning stage around the start of the switch's life, and the developers were unsure what the main demographic of the console would be, whether it would be kids like the 3DS or older players. So the game became an awkward half step in between casual and core design to try to offend no one.

TOK has the best ost out of the series, that's enough of a reason to play it.

youtube.com/watch?v=ysbRJJsrBzg

Color Splash is okay for a playthrough, but way too limited in scope to be anything great. It's a better Sticker Star in every way except the bosses, but being a "better Sticker Star" isn't exactly a recipe for success. The game still carries over inherent flaws from that game.

The Origami King is actually good, however. In fact, I'd say it's actually very good despite its flaws. The game actually feels like a proper connected adventure and contains a way more engrossing world than the previous modern Paper Mario titles. Writing isn't on par with the original trilogy, but it's surprisingly solid coming off its direct predecessors. The combat, while still repetitive, is at least a clear improvement from the system in SS and CS. The boss system is fantastic, however, and easily the highlight of the gameplay.

I really love it. I wish more games would try to make this kind of music with the heavy use of real instruments. Mario Galaxy is the only other one that comes to mind. Mario Kart also has a few tracks like that, but not a ton.

The Onion King was alright.

>Ironically, Tanabe said the puzzle battle system was to make the game appeal to the core players, not the children. It didn't work obviously.
Wait, is this true? That would actually be huge news for the future of the series.

>The boss system is fantastic, however, and easily the highlight of the gameplay.
I agree, I absolutely loved the bosses. They filtered the shit out of some people though, which is why you see so many people screeching about them online. You had to actually use deductive reasoning to figure out how to beat them.

What do you mean? Origami King got way more positive buzz after it was actually out and many walked away pleasantly surprised.

It's true, I know it sounds ridiculous but he actually did say that. He said a lot of crazy shit. His response to all the blowback when the game came out was basically "I don't care suck my dick."

Origami King was really good. Color Splash not so much outside of having decent humor

I'm really hopeful that Kirby adding a progression system means we can get one in Paper Mario again too. Kirby is pretty much Nintendo's most casual franchise. If they're willing to have a fully fleshed out progression system there, why not in an RPG?

Kirby's handled by HAL, who aren't owned by Nintendo. Their design choices don't really reflect any of the philosophies of Nintendo's higher ups.

No, and for whatever insane reason the paper mario team absolutely refuse to stick to a single enjoyable mechanic I can only hope they all lose their jobs one day

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I mean obviously Nintendo has a role in Kirby games. They had some dude help produce the game like Tanabe produced Paper Mario with IS.

Like Pokemon, Kirby is a second party property and throughout the years Nintendo has had a large degree of input in it even if ultimately the franchise is handled by HAL.

It's not the team's fault. The developers at IS are clearly incredibly talented. It's Tanabe's fault, and possibly the board of directors at Nintendo as well. For some retarded reason they decided to make stupid rules like no original characters and no RPG mechanics.

>God tier
PM
TTYD
>High tier
>Good tier
>Okay tier
>Mediocre tier
SPM
>Bad tier
TOK
>Shit tier
SS
CS

Attached: 1540968222332.jpg (600x410, 67.74K)

>near the first three
kek, why are super fags like this?

Not even close

youtube.com/watch?v=Mll2EwvxnrM

Attached: 1538552547966.jpg (270x285, 11.49K)

>God tier
TTYD
>Great tier
TOK, 64
>Severely flawed but worth playing tier
SPM, CS
>Don't bother
SS

Reminder that Paper Mario has gone longer without a sequel than F-Zero

>Last Paper Mario game
July 22, 2004
>Last F-Zero game
October 21, 2004

>TOK that high
Fuck off

This

hot

The last Mario RPG was 9 years ago. Nowhere near as bad as F-Zero. There was even a (shitty) remake of a Mario RPG only 4 years ago. It's not like the series has been completely dead for decades.

Any Paper Mario game that focuses more on the Paper part than the Mario part are bad games. In the first 2, the Paper gimmick was almost never brought up, with the exception of the folding powerups in TTYD. It was played straight, and the characters and enemies had nothing to do with arts & crafts.

Having actual fucking office supplies be bosses is criminal.

M&L =/= Paper Mario

Super was the last Paper Mario to have soul

>Having actual fucking office supplies be bosses is criminal.
Yeah but what choice do they have when they are only allowed to use real world objects for bosses? I think it was a really creative way to get around the restriction, because it was either that or the koopalings again.

it was a shit game regardless

Super's gameplay is even worse than TOK's and while the plot is enjoyable the gags are too aggressive. I think it was intentional because they were going for a digital them so they wanted sort of internet humor but it just does not land most of the time (unless you're 8).

We know you have shit taste.

TOK is my third favourite pooper mario
Enjoyed it more than super

color splash was worse than sticker star

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SPM was responsible for the shit we have today, not Sticker Star.
Whoever created that deviantart-tier plot set off Miyamoto's autism and he kept the series on a leash after that.

>Great Tier
PM
>Good Tier
TTYD, TOK
>Shit Tier
SS, CS
>Worse than Shit Tier
SPM

It really started with TTYD honestly. At that point they were already starting to push it with the anime stuff. In TTYD it was at an acceptable level, but it was skirting the line at times and its success gave them the confidence to push it even further (too far) in super.

People who say TOK had good gameplay are retarded. You're still actively discouraged from battling, and the battling system sucks balls STILL

Persona/SMT is better than FF.

No. They're just mundane games that began the LOL PAPER shit where battles are pointless and a punishment, and also extremely sterilized.

However, everything besides the battling is fun.

I enjoyed Color Splash's humor. That's about it

The puzzles are very fun to do, you're just a brainlet. I do agree they aren't the perfect fit with a pseudo-RPG, though.

I'm not denying that TTYD was a clear transition between 64 and Super, but at the same time I think the Super did a lot itself to make the series feel too removed from core Mario. Most of the new characters and species in TTYD could at least be believable as characters in Mario's universe. Nearly every new OC in Super felt very removed from Mario. Yes, I know the game was about jumping between different dimensions, but it didn't do the best job selling that when all these new characters still likely felt like they were adhering to the same core art style, which contrasted with the normal Paper Mario style. I believe that was absolutely one of the biggest reasons that game in particular pushed the patience of Nintendo executives.

I battled nearly every enemy I encountered, and I didn't get the final Coin achievement until the final dungeon. Granted, this was going for 100% (minus the shitty flags), but it still does highlight a key point. You're going to want plenty of Coins, which ends up being the main incentive left to battle. It's still inferior to an EXP system, granted, but it is a reason.

Have no idea why you people rate 64 the highest.
>starts off slow as shit
>only 30 BP
>partners have no HP
I could understand if it was the story, but the gameplay is improved in TTYD

This.
And this.

>Were either of these good?
Fuck no.