NCR vs Caesar’s legion

Which side will win in the end?

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The moment Caesar dies, Legion will fall apart, so NCR

NCR is fated to fall apart too, just later.

What's life like in the NCR?

NCR. Even Caesar acknowledges it, he's just moving west because he believes the Legion will force them to reform to be less retarded.

If the Courier dies at the start of the game and never recovers (and benny loses the chip or something so nothing ever comes of that plot thread) then I would guess the Legion would win the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam. They have infiltrated the NCR really thoroughly, and NCR's troops and leadership are rife with defeatism and incompetence. Would take a huge performance from the Rangers to turn the tide imo, they are probably spread too thin to pull it off.
Legion has absolutely zero chance of conquering NCR proper, though, and will collapse shortly after Caesar's swiftly upcoming death.

NCR is a civilization or at least representative of one. Caesar’s legion is just a cult of personality. Had Caesar’s legion also been a civilization it would be successful but it’s not.

Legion because they are in the right side of history.
>Jimmy indicates that homosexuality is common in the legion, and also says: “Honestly, as long as men meet obligations and the child count, “friendships” are a sight more equal than the level of most Legion husbands and wives.” When a male PC with the Confirmed Bachelor perk tells Cass that he isn’t interested in her romantically, she’ll say: “Guess you’ve got a Legion outlook on things.” She goes on to suggest that homosexuality is common in Caesar’s Legion. Veronica similarly says, “I hear the soldiers mount each other as much as they mount their women, so maybe they did keep a little something from the Empire.”

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NCR. Legion might take the Dam, but they're only playing at war in the Mojave. Once the Legion begins to seriously threaten them, NCR will win.

The House Always Wins

the guy who ran away because his lover tried to kill him, because if it was discovered they would both me put to death. its ok bros they like gays n shit

Without courier intervention the NCR will fail to hold Hoover Dam, then the Legion will march west, suffering heavy losses the further they move into NCR.

There are no gay Legion characters in FNV but 5 or 6 NCR fags.

Literally every civilization is fated to fall apart at some point, but the NCR has almost no indication of imminent collapse. It is still one of the single most dominant powers in the Wasteland, it's just suffering from war exhaustion and a degree of corruption. Even if it had a downfall of some kind, it will still probably exist as a major cultural power and go through a series of rises and falls afterwards.

>wears scavenged football pads and plates
>sends dudes into battle with spears
>has a fully-fledged manufacturing economy

Does the ESL schizo still post here?

The Golden Enclave wins

Read more history books, they both have a reason but ultimately will lose.

>Caesar’s legion is just a cult of personality
Many Legion members are doing far more without Ceaser.

When rome fell all sorts of roman larpers appeared claiming to be roman, same with the legion they will peak then leave a far greater legacy than the ncr.

all groups are doomed to fall apart eventually, ideas are the only immortals

Basically this. Courier has to carry the NCR to victory and to having their shit not all fucked. Seeing as Caesar doesn't die unless you kill him I have to imagine if you don't do his route he has a Frumentari or someone get the shit he needs to fix his head, which means at least a few more years of him still being able to lead.

Rome existed for hundreds of years and brought a massive upsurge of infrastructure, culture, and security to every location in absorbed. Most people remember a time before the Legion was a part of their lives, and unless their character exists to justify the Legion's cartoonishly evil behavior, they remember it fondly.

The legion aren't Roman just because the leader is named Caesar. They seem more barbarian than anything. The most likely outcome is disorder, chaos, and no winner

>gets their ass kicked repeatedly by larping spearchuckers

wouldn't wanna have sympathy for wrong think.

for me it's independet vegas

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Why would anyone want to join the legion?

Realistically or in the game?


>our world is a fag-infested shithole ruled by satanic oligarchs
>hmmm, which faction will win between the globohomo democracy or the autocracy with decent values hmmmmmmmmmmm
realistically, caesar's legion would win, as they're just too numerous to defeat for the budding NCR, and the NCR is too constrained by the some corruption and bureaucracy that real life "democratic" governments are.

but carly in HR and triss(xe/xer) on the art team don't think letting a fascist paramilitary organization win is a good take for the modern age, chud.

Cause the double agent playthrough is kino. Start off helping the powder gangers, betray them to the NCR. Do contract work for the NCR so you can get into Vegas for free, and help the Legion ending the playthrough with Arizona Killer. Optional blow up both with Lonesome Road before you get to Vegas for the rep reset + free loot.

Well they're supposed to be like a morally black faction compared to other three grey ones (devs words, not mine) so if you want to roleplay as more of an evil or a villain character that's what they're there for. Some retards kind of miss that point though and unironically shill them when they were never really supposed to be a valid option.

It looked like with Hanlon's help and Caesar's spies they were tipping the scales in the favor of the Legion. Without you helping the NCR and doing everything for them they would honestly lose or be forced into retreat.

where does he say that

Your birth wasn't a valid option faggot.

>Sawyer: Between the NCR, House, and an independent Vegas, I felt that the player had three “soft” grey choices.
>Sawyer: There’s nothing really morally grey about Liberia’s Charles Taylor, but he’s a real guy who did astoundingly terrible things for the sake of maintaining power. In the context of F:NV, I don’t think Caesar and the Legion need to be thought of as “grey” like the player’s other options.
Again user, that's the devs opinion, not mine. That's literally how it was designed, go complain to Obsidian, not me

seethe tranny

they wrote themselves in an unwinnable hole.
legion owns everything east of the colorado and is expanding into the north-west until caesar calls back lanius' legions for the battle at the dam. NCR doesn't even own all of california. legion soldiers are bigger, stronger, and faster than NCR soldiers, and they do in fact use guns rather than just melee weaponry.

they got the population to bring meat for the grinder as needed and they aren't exactly militarily retarded.

There's a gay prostitute in Westside that goes on and on about how he was a slave in the legion and was raped on repeat by legion officers.

>argues for legion
>get called a tranny anyway
report to the gas chamber zoomie

caesar dies if the courier dowsnt cure his brain cancer

>Which side will win in the end?
Legion is just a tool shaped by Caesar to overthrow the NCR.
It's really Caesar's ambitions vs NCR.

If Legion wins, then so be it. NCR is projected to lose anyways.
If NCR wins, then it's because they have adapted themselves, and became stronger from it.
If NCR collapses, then humanity resets back to the stone age, a favorable contingency.
Either way, Caesar gets what he wants, an ideal civilization that can stand the tests of time

The NCR is destined to collapse like all corrupt governments. Caesar is just hastening the inevitable.
Well, that's what my headcanon says anyways. Obsidian wouldn't be this smart, even with their "Hegelian Dialectics"
The sole reason why people like Legion so much is that they're mysterious, literally, as in there isn't much content to properly define them, so a lot of Legion is up to the imagination of the person playing the game.

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Mr. House

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You never heard his hegelian dialectics spiel?

Everyone keeps saying NCR represents globohomo but if they were a real country and we compared their values to modern US they would be pretty based. Extremely stratocratic and belligerant and illiberal

Legion has cities too under their protection. They have territory as far as Texas.

>The NCR council will be eradicated, but the new synthesis will change the Legion as well... from a basically nomadic army to a standing military force that protects its citizens, and the power of its dictator.

Caesar's end goal for his legion is to go from a glorified raider band to a militarized force that enforces his ideals and philosophy.

What they get for basing their form of government on a failed system. Democracy just does not work in Fallout. You need a benevolent dictator to keep civilization from destroying itself.

NCR because it's stagnancy means it's myriad factions will never fracture, it will languish with incredible power used only lethargically against necessary threats until another larger government consumes it or forces its sumission.

The Legion has no internal bureaucracy to keep it's interior together, it's held together with force, and thus everyone would assume they can do better on their own if it starts to weaken, it will fracture and be decimated for centuries at a time.

The NCR are a tribal oligarchy that have taken on aesthetics and values of a Western pre war liberal democracy. That means they can relate themselves to the remnants of the world easily which gives them legitimacy with the people who live among the ruins. They don't actually have to be a real democracy or adopt any of its weaknesses

>wears skirts
>are gay
not fooling me legiontranny

The answer is the NCR but it will not be a quick and implosive death, it will be a slow and bloody one through civil wars. Once Caesar dies, the Legion will eat itself, but the NCR will be able to keep electing new presidents and keep the republic going.

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The question is how will it fall? Could it pull a Rome and transition into an autocracy for another century at least or will it just balkanize into squabbling rump states?

>be legion
>style yourself after roman empire
>role in narrative resembles barbarians that caused their fall

>it will languish with incredible power used only lethargically against necessary threats until another larger government consumes it or forces its submission.
>Economically destroyed after the ragtag bandits of the Brotherhood of Steel jihaded their Reserve

>styled after the roman empire

well that was the intention no? but they're more like visigoths to the roman NCR

Not to mention how well the Legion protects their caravans/merchants compared to the NCR I honestly think the Legion will eventually win the War

maybe you should ask yourself why they are called the "legion" in the first place

>we're going to win
>source: trust me bro

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I hear some faggy wheezing from behind this door, but I can't make out the words.