What's your opinion on Doom 2 and its maps?

My grandfather had doom 2 on floppies.

I think its pretty good. Start of Doom II is great, middle sags a lot, and the ending is mostly good. I wouldn't even say the icon of sin is a bad "boss" fight, I think it just gets ragged on because its a meme at this point.

The quality does go downhill pretty rapidly around map 16 or so, but overall I agree it's underrated, definitely better than the original Doom campaign.

I think its mainly a few big youtubers hate it, so it become the "funny" to hate on it. TnT won't rock your socks, but its not horrible either.

Enemies better, super shotgun nice, maps worse
Lots of gimmicks, lots of wildly abstract rubbish

The best maps were in E1 of Doom 1 - John Romero did all of them except for the obviously half-baked M4 Command Control and the Phobos Anomaly which was just a boss arena.

Most of the maps in later episodes and Doom 2 could be credited to Sandy Petersen and American McGee. Romero is far from an amazing level designer, but he was the best of the team at the time and it showed.

Attached: E1M3.jpg (3576x4495, 1.93M)

I never cared for McGee, but I do feel bad for Sandy. Didn't he end up having to design a good chunk of the maps with McGee?

It was kind of like how some people hate DLC - There was a much hyped map pack made by a popular team that was finished and had a release date but at the last minute got bought up by Romero and bundled into paid content instead.

looks and feels like a fan wad. i'd rather play plutonia.

Doom 2 is a great game, not as great as the original though. Doom 1 feels more fun to play through while Doom 2 feels like an endurance test to play through. Atleast you get the Super Shotgun.

Doom 2 monsters are cool, supershotgun is a bit overpowered

>TnT won't rock your socks
Stronghold is a GOAT map

ssg is only overpowered when you're not pistol starting.

I meant as an overall experience.

First third of the game is awesome; everything else past that is pure garbage. Pain Elementals and mazelike levels suck all the fun out of the game.

What did you mom get knocked up at 14

>suburbs
>courtyard
>the living end
>bad
lol, lmao even. pro-tip: save chaingun ammo for pain elementals. they can't spawn lost souls if they're hitstunned

Gay maze shit.
Fucking total garbage.
Cancerous level design at its worse.

Too many gimmicks.
Too many in general.
I always get bored around monster condo.

spoken like someone who hasn't actually played through it. most of the levels past The Sewers are somewhat nonlinear arenas slapped together (dead simple, tricks and traps, refueling base, suburbs). Don't get me wrong, by the time I get to The Pit doom 2 starts to piss me off but you have to remember that there was no other reference for 3d level design other than doom 1.

>Recolored enemies
>SSG trivialized most of the game
A FUCKING HAND > city levels

>>Recolored enemies
That's Doom 1

SSG is only overpowered because Doom 2 decided to hold back on the usage of most of its tougher new monsters. Also doesnt help that it first appears way before any of them.
Final Doom and most pwads fix this by actually using Doom 2's monsters more often, which opens up for many situations where the SSG isn't necessarily the most viable option anymore.

The only enemy that counts as a recolour is the Hell Knight. Everything else actually changed the overall gameplay loop.

Out of 8 regular enemies of D00M, with 2 recolors.
D00M II has 15 regular enemies, with 5 being recolors (although pain elemental is more mechanically and visually distinct from caco than most other recolors).

>5 being recolors
Besides the obvious one (Hell Knight), what are these?

Arachnotron is smaller Spidermastermind
Pain elemental is Caco
added Spectre and shotgunner from 1
so it's adds up to 5

they are certainly levels indeed

There are some weaker ones for sure but it's not as bad overall as some ecelebs make it out to be

doom 2 has fucking putrid looking maps
compare e1m1 and map01 and you can tell what i mean

It's pretty boring for the most part. The sequels is where it gets good. Will Devilution come out of beta till the end of this year?

The SSG and monsters really add alot to doom's gameplay and balance. The maps are ok some of the middle ones get boring. Map 28 and 29 are my favorites.

Its fine. does alot weird/cool shit with the doom engine that is kinda pointless but interesting. Relies on hit scanners alot for its challenge.

Map01 was made by Sandy, his Doom 1 maps weren't visual masterpieces either

It's a good sequel that pushed the original game further (huge maps, big enemy count in every level and new complex enemies to put in the chesse board of doom) but wasn't as good as the first game quality wise.
I don't really understand the hate for the city and hell episodes in doom 2, maybe because i am new to the series, but last time i played the game i counted only 2 bad levels in each episode, one of them was Nirvana, but even then Nirvana was unique in its own right.

To be fair to the Arachnotron and Pain Elemental, they dont function the same as the monsters they borrowed their appearances from.

i get to city and i stop playing, most of them are fine though

Aged like milk.

It's a spectrum.
Pain Elementa(visually and mechanically distinct)>Arachnotron(mechanically distinct recolor)>Shotgunner=Spectre(recolor with minor gameplay differences)>Knight(recolor, no meaningful gameplay change)

plutonia>all

doom 2's problem is being absolutely mogged by most pwads that came after it
eviternity, valiant, alien vendetta, etc. are far tighter gaming experiences

Based Plutonia chad

based as fuck,best of the commercial DOOM games.

I love it way more than doom 1

doom 1 isn't real doom cause it doesn't have the SSG

What is going on with his hair?

its to show how much of an exxxtreme marine he is

kind of cool really, in the 90s we could easily imagine a badass space marine having an idgaf haircut like that.

When playing it for the first time, did you guys save a bunch throughout the maps? I've been playing it on UV and I would probably go mad if I couldn't save since I don't know the map or the traps that await me and would have to restart a lot. I was able to do no save runs for my first ever playthoughs of Doom 1 & 2 but definitely can't in Plutonia my first time through

The save function is there for a reason

everyone saved a bunch of times playing through doom and all fps of that era. dont let anyone tell you they didnt

Exactly. I could probably beat it saveless but I just can't be bothered to repeat sections over and over. I'm no decino, I don't get paid to play ridiculously hard maps

part of the reason doom eternal is legitimately much harder. its set up for you to have "saves" to begin with yet the individual encounters can get bonkers

Nothing wrong with saving. I tend to use it as a checkpoint (ie, saving once I've obtained a key, or after every 5 minutes). One advice I can give is to avoid carelessly saving when you are in the heat of a fight, as it can potentially screw you over.

real 90s nyggas remember some game that saved while you were being killed

>19 hours to saveless uv-max a single map
lol, lmao. my computer would be out the fucking window after 10