They both have masterpiece-tier aggregated review scores. Why is their legacy that they're just good but flawed games...

>UHHHHHH SONIC IS ALL ABOUT GOING FAST
Honestly nothing has done more damage to Sonic or let to more retarded behavior than this

It's so fucking stupid, especially in the Mega Drive games. They literally speed off right, fucking die and then legitimately think
>Am I playing this wrong? No I can't be because the meme says go fast. The game design doesn't match the meme so it must be the thing that's wrong.

Like five seconds of introspection would shut that down dead but people literally look at the level design, see something that CLEARLY doesn't work and decide that they simply must do something that obviously doesn't work because the meme said so and if they can't the game sucks. It's absurd.

Jim Stirling? He unironically defended Sonic 4 and said people just didn't like it because it wasn't like Sonic 3

>user supports journalism
you need to go back

No, ProJared. Just remembered his name.

revisionism and nostalgia bias. i used to never hear the end of people even older than me calling these games some of the best ever made. now all of a sudden, when i say they’re the best sonic games it’s “controversial” or IM the “nostalgia blind” guy for not believing colors (lol) saved sonic or that sa1 and 2 are “poorly aged” trash.

also retards that look up metacritic scores and the first thing they see is that shitty score the 2010 port has and think it’s for the original since they’re retarded and go like “duh people think this game is bad”

op is the one who brought up aggregated review scores

holy shit, i had no idea journalists were based for once and gave these games the score they deserved. really wish the fans weren't brainwashed.

They aren't? They are objectively bad games that were highly criticized with extremely successful marketing campaigns that got children to buy them. Sega's entire existence hinged on the success of both of these games, so they are arguably some of the most aggressively marketed games of all time.

Heroes already soured the pot. Not a good game

Actually just replayed SA1, SA2, and Shuffle on a dreamcast.

Adventure 1 and 2 are fun. It's clunky, yeah, but the games are fun. Honestly the presentation is both awful and top tier at the same time. Ironically they're at their worst when in a cutscene, and maybe that's why zoomers hate it. They expect the cutscenes to be the most polished portion. When you're in a level and just kinda take it in, it's a great feeling. Especially the adventure stages in 1. Taking a small break and just talking to people and listening to the music is so nice no matter what.

Shuffle's kinda fun, but yeah it's kinda just worse mario retardy. Admittedly, I don't think sonic games have ever looked as good as shuffle. I don't know why they dropped that art style, not even using it for spinoffs. Not just the cell shading, but the art direction for the levels and leaning heavy into Uekawa's style for everything. It's just too good, man.

I recommend people go on a /vr/ trip with a dreamcast and those three games, it's comfy.

>2 : Tails
>CD : Amy, Metal Sonic
>3&K : Knuckles, Eggrobo
>SA1 : Tikal, Chaos, Gamma, Big, Froggy, Birdie, Chao, Pachacamac, Zero, Beta, Omochao
>SA2 : Shadow, Rouge, Maria, Gerald, President, Secretary, Biolizard, King Boom Boo
i like how many new characters they introduced compared to Genesis games

They weren't perfect even on the Dreamcast, but every port afterwards just broke more and more shit and that gives a skewed perspective for people. Also, a lot of people were too stupid to figure out how to play SA1 or understand the story of SA2 and they project their inadequacies onto the games.

Attached: SA1 Speed Highway.webm (640x360, 613.34K)

great use of color on Sonic Team's part

most non-autistic zoomers don't have a way to play them because the only current consoles you can play them on are xbox, the least popular by a wide margin and where most users only play edgy mature western games. thus their only exposure is various youtube videos by contrarians and fart-sniffing pseuds.

>xbox 360
no

mods fix the ports don't they?

Chaos and Open your heart better be in the next movie

mods for the PC versions fix the vast majority of problems, but getting the PC versions and installing mods is asking too much of most normalfags.

did you watch this movie? you can't think they're going to put both adventure games in one movie, right? these are the people who decided the master emerald is just the chaos emeralds put together because they didn't want to put finding more than one emerald in a movie.

Because youtubers shit on them, people vastly exaggerate and nitpick problems with them that every single other 3D game of the era possessed, like the camera, and totally ignore the things that were really impressive for the time. That being said, I think SA1 is better than 2.

Attached: 1650578554775.png (2048x1536, 1.09M)

>characters we already know (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Metal Sonic, Amy, Big, Shadow, Rouge, Omochao) plus the Chaotix from 32X game and Cream from Advance 2
>only new character is Omega
>no new species or organizations introduced (such as Chao or GUN beforehand)
>simplistic story
>lack of gameplay variety
>enemy gaunlet "bosses"
Heroes was such a lazy and uninspired game

Sega's retardation is truly the one universal constant that keeps our dimension anchored in a linear timeline. Imagine making the conscious decision to develop all of a game's levels and bosses before bringing the writer on to write the story.

sonic was never good

were the Heroes stages and bosses really designed before they wrote a story?

considering how much of a nothing-burger the story is, yeah I'd say that checks out.

>SA2 : Shadow, Rouge, Maria, Gerald, President, Secretary, Biolizard, King Boom Boo, GUN
>Heroes : Omega
>SthH : Black Doom, Black Arms, GUN commander
Sonic Team USA truly ran out of creative juices after leaving the Dreamcast behind, didn't they?

>simplistic story
geneshit games were like that too

The reality is there was always a crop of people that didn't care for them, and by the time Heroes came out the flaws were remarked upon so often it became passe. That's when the "rough transition" truism was established. Even the Gamecube ports were reviewed with this mindset -- if you care that much about review scores. And no, it wasn't just about SADX's glitches. Anybody that says otherwise is too young to remember and too incurious to just google it for themselves.

Yeah, from the mouth of Shiro Maekawa himself, the writer and storyboard artist behind SA2 and also a contributing factor in the story of Sonic & The Black Knight (the last good depiction of Sonic in a videogame)
pastebin.com/30Fy2tnH

>--What processes are involved in creating a story? What is the source of your ideas? Do you have anything to refer to?

>Ugh, strangely enough, when I'm rereading a story that I wrote, I find myself twisting my head wondering how I came up with such a story. If I remember correctly, during the making of SA2, I decided on the story and setting first, and then we applied the game's stages to it. On the other hand, in "Sonic Heroes", the action stages came first, and the story filled the gaps.

if 06 truly was intended to be SA3, then this jingle heard in both Adventure games would've been used. 06 is no SA3
youtu.be/X27Iur0Vn5I

i don't understand why people dislike them to begin with. the games aren't perfect, but most of the complaints either boil down to minor nitpicks or hold the games to modern standards that didn't exist at the time.
it's not fair to examine them from that angle and most games released before and even many after sonic suffer from those same problems or even worse. eg sm64's camera, dk64's multiple characters, re1's shitty voice acting. sonic adventure 1+2 were groundbreaking and helped to define the modern 3d platformer, but unlike these other games they're not really recognized for their role today. perhaps that's due to sega's decline in brand relevancy or perhaps it's the product of a series of buggy poorly done ports.
I enjoyed both games and while i wouldn't put them in my top 10 or anything, they were very impressive for the time and still have a lot to offer today.

they remind me of Antz and original Shrek : dated in some areas, yet very impressive for the time and still worth revisiting today

But that's just it. There are a number of 3D platformers from the same time period as the Adventure games that completely outclass them. For me the issue isn't the technical at all. The majority of both Adventure games is just a slog. What isn't paper thin spectacle is half-assed padding.

sure buddy

I dunno I've been looking at posts about Sonic Adventure from back then and they complain about the camera too.

Attached: sa1 camera.png (1307x314, 26.89K)

Attached: sa camera.png (1158x282, 31.08K)

Banjofags are attacking Sonikino just because people are finally realizing that Banjo-Kazooie games were shit.

Where do you find these old posts? I've seen that google-like UI before with old ass posts.

This is somehow still a Youtuber's fault to the average Adventurefag.

their legacy is that they're fucking garbage

Most people's experience playing these games are the awful ports and not the Dreamcast originals. Imagine if the first re-release, and therefore the first experience for a large audience, of Sonic 1 was the fucking GBA port.

> people vastly exaggerate and nitpick problems
dude, I love the adventure games, but they are probably the buggiest games i've ever completed
mods vastly improve the situation but you kinda need to rewrite it from scratch to fix some of that stuff

Why doesn't sega make a game with adventure's physics and level design.
They pretty much got it right the first time why do they refuse to just improve on the base the created?

Because, since Sonic's inception, whenever they don't completely replace the dev team for each new entry they are plagued with scheduling or budgetary constraints.

>Most people's experience playing these games are the awful ports and not the Dreamcast originals.
the DC port isn't this perfect rendition of sonic adventure either
some problems like the wonky camera and bad collision are still there

No, they're overexaggerated. Grabbing stuff in the chao garden in SA1 is jank as fuck, and rubbing against a wall while hovering in SA2 will cause you to crater, and of course there's pic related that everyone likes to point at, but other than that most "bugs" really just boil down to user error.

Attached: SADX Ramp.webm (1440x1080, 2.95M)

>learn to get good at
Lol these games play themselves. Adventure games are horrible

Everyone likes to point at that glitch because it instantly kills you for just playing the game normally and it's on the first level so many people experience it.

It doesn't happen in the DC version though. is correct.

yeah, some criticism are exagerated and some of the jank is from the dx versions, but some stuff is broken even in the DC version
load up windy valley and try to skip some of the section after the tornado part, the camera doesn't like that at all

Yeah, the camera is egregious no matter which version you play, but some people like to pretend that you'll just randomly fall through the level.

yeah I agree with you on that fucking clip
even if you actually play the dx version unmodded there is no way you'll do that clip if you're playing that blind
who the fuck would slow down between those two Dash Panels

Whos Egoraptor?
They are good and flawed games
These and Colors/Generations are the only good 3D Sonic games.
Instead of continuing to build on good formulas Sonic Team, too often, just started from scratch and never got time to refine ideas
People who hate fun tend to not like these games, the only people I ever saw go in too hard on them were boomer game journos, your Adam Sessler crack head types who think goofy Sonic tier fun is below them

It happened with me.
>Never got around to playing Adventure
>Saw that people recommended mods
>Pfft, I don't feel like going through the trouble of modding for the sake of slightly better looking water or something
>Fall through that exact spot
>Install mods
It's not so much that I wanted to slow down as I was trying to take control of the steer which happened to connect with that exact spot.

Heroes is one of if not the worst 3D Sonic games
I would write out my thesis on it but the cliffnotes is instead of building on what felt good in the Adventure games it tried to start fresh and ended up with a mediocre mess that is just a slog to play through in all regards

Because most people's experience were the broken ass ports (of ports) of ports.
SA1>SA2