Fromsoft have long figured out that one way they can punish players who carelessly roll around all the time is to hold...

>Fromsoft have long figured out that one way they can punish players who carelessly roll around all the time is to hold the anticipation phase of attack animations for half a second longer than you'd expect
>They've completely abused this trick to the point to where most bosses seem to have at least a few of those attacks and even many basic enemies do as well
>This could be a whole topic by itself, but rather than dwell on it let's just focus on the fact by the time you've reached the Dancer, you've already had to adapt to a huge number of unconventional timings designed solely to catch you out

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Zanziroll forgive me...

I dont mind the delayed attacks. What I dont like is that there is no tell for a lot of them. No sound cue or animation or effect that tells when they will release the attack, you just have to memorize when it will come

sometimes it just doesnt come because you didnt push a button, so its pointless to even add such tells.

>what I don't like is that the game doesn't play itself for me and I have to actually learn to play the game

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>so you just have to memorize when it will come
Or do this thing called reacting

I've realised after playing a lot of elden ring that you're really just watching for the movement, your initial reaction roll was a correct intuition, and then you're just doing the same thing on the 2nd motion instead

>bosses countering your panic rolling is abuse

Shitter talk

>game has horrid input queue that will fuck you over if you mash, making you do attacks or rolls after having been staggered thus making you eat another hit usually
>at the same time the game has a horrible problem with input drops meaning that you often times have to mash in order to get the game to fucking operate
>i.e. you get fucked for mashing and you get fucked for not mashing

This alone doesn't get brought up enough honestly, its fucking horseshit

It feels cheap when you simply have to either get lucky that you dodged at the right time or you get hit and memorize the timing from there.
Take games like god hand where every enemy attack has a tell, it feels fair and you have just enough time to react. Makes it much more satisfying when you defeat an enemy via reaction then just memorization and makes the combat more intuitive

By the way, I noticed that Margit/Morgott seems to specifically react to your rolling input.
He detects your intent to roll and then attacks, try fighting him without rolling as much, you will quickly notice that he is much less aggressive.

my problem is less that bosses do it and more that a bunch of random enemies have perfectly timed roll catch attack patterns do. I'm pretty sure the basic fucking soldiers of Godrick do it

what's the big deal about this Baal from Diablo 2 ripoff

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Or you can do this thing called reacting
Just admit your coomer brain is too melted to process quick movements outside of thrusts

More shitter talk. Even the dogs in bloodborne have Quickstep.

Git gud.

>do this thing called reacting
Yes that is my point, the game should have you react instead of memorize

It does

The input drops are awful, but they are systematic. It happens when you release the direction of the left stick before releasing the dodge button. This is super obnoxious, but once you are aware of it you can consciously train yourself to avoid it.

I wasn't complaining that I can't beat godrick soldiers i just find it repetitive

>Rolling isn't completely braindead
>There's a reason to use a shield, especially against enemies you are unfamiliar with
>Delayed attacks are very easy to parry

yea i hate when playing souls games i have to look at the screen and push buttons when things happen on screen
such cheap gamedesign

There are a lot of moves that do this.
Take the laser beam from the natural born boss. There is no tell when the beam comes out, and there is no way to react when he shoots it. You just have to memorize the timing of when the beam fires

>punish players who carelessly roll
This is a good thing.
Stop mashing buttons without thinking about it.

whenever I get my roll caught it's because I was stuck in the really long period in the "standing up after a hard knock down" animation where you can cancel into a roll but can't block

The animations feel rubbery for lack of a better term, like someone look at the animations in post and randomly slowed them up and down along the timeline so the tell lasts longer than it should and the actual attack defies physics by accelerating faster than possible mid-swing.

>Design intentionally dishonest attacks that come out like the crack of a whip after 300+ frames of delay
>Just memorize the game, it's not about reaction anymore
Doesn't help that there's 4 frames of input delay, so you're forced to roll everything early.

>At the end of the day Yea Forums is no better than DSP, making excuse after excuse when they die but never blaming themselves

Its ds2 all over again
They feint so hard they actually become easier

Good thing rolling is not the only defensive option in this game!

>People want the game to be more enjoyable
>Fromdrones will whine about this ad naseum
>Even though From has been actively patching the game for two months now

yeah the secret in a lot of these situations qis to just go for a big damage weapon art or charged r2 knockdown while they're standing around lol

>stop reacting and play the game like a series of scripted inputs like parappa the rapper

lol

Just time your consecutive rolls dummy, stop spamming

What a dumb post.

>People want the game to be more enjoyable
And how do you know they aren't just a vocal minority?

I don't. All I know is that From keeps listening to them every patch they release. Numerous bosses were nerfed with the last patch, buffs across the board to tons of Ashes, Spells, and weapons, quest hints were added in places where they were none, etc.

Someone at From knows they fucked up in some places, but Fromdrones still think they know better I guess.

How do you cunts deal with the fat godskin dude machinegun thrusts? Where do I roll to avoid becoming a sieve? If I go back one of the repeat thrusts get me, if I roll sideways one of the repeat thrusts sometimes get me. Can't figure it out.

I parried him

None of that has anything to do with the roll catching though?
>The devs improved the damage of a weak assault rifle, this means they're going to remove the headshot mechanic!

Just run?

The majority of the difficulty of this game comes down to unintuitive controls. It feels fake.

Roll forward-left/right past him. This works for most flurry attacks in the game.

Parry or roll into his face

What?

You are supposed to react, you just reacted too early and got punished.

>Yes let's complain about the literal first boss in the game with completely fair and telegraphed moves
>Not at all about the boss that has an unreactable teleport which he can combo from, arena-sized undodgable AOEs and one hit kill moves
Why do fromfags always cherry pick with trash is okay and what isn't?

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charges up energy while youre at long range. i wonder what hes gonna do? retard

The main problem with it is the fact that rolls have a delay so you can't even react to them even if you see it coming
In other games you react to it
In this game you can't react because of shitty coding so you are forced to learn the attack pattern on a game obviously made for "reactions".
When im kiling a boss and i see one of his delaying attack, i press roll before he even starts the animation to attack so evade it, if i roll as soon as he starts the animation i will get hit.
>>bosses countering your panic rolling is abuse
If you press the roll button to late and you get hit the retarded queue system will instead roll again when you get up and eat another hit, there is nothing to stop that queue from happening.

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I rolled like 8 times in a row backwards, werked for me lol

I just wish FROM made a camera system that isn't basically still at a Tenchu level of programming. It's not always bad, but good lord things like the birds with swords make you see how old it is. Also even at full cam speed, rotating the camera is slow as shit and why does it take like a full 4 seconds from holding the run button to actaully start running.

Delay on enemy attacks is a big thing to get used to, but the game often doesn't provide much lag after most moves. This forced me to go for quick weapons as I'm too impatient to wait for moves that actaully have some lag on them. That way I can peck the enemy and have time to roll. But if I wanna go 2Hander I feel like I basically need to time and space so that I'll be just out of range while me animation is loading. Poise imo is also just a game of trail and error. Slashing the tendons of a giant? Pffft that does not effect poise. Jumping and slashing the buttocks? BIG POISE DAMAGE HE FALLS DOWN BECAUSE HE JUST FALLS DOWN OKAY???

All in all I'm enjoying cheesing my way through the game. I dunno why people play this game on final destination Melee only no items. But to each his own.

But it does have everything to do with Fromdrones being blathering idiots that defend literally anything, even when From themselves are willing to change it.

His proper fight is actually pretty good and he’s also a good character once you get the skinny on him

Yes and theres no way to react when he SHOOTS. Dont be obtuse on purpose

I legitimately avoided it the first time.


its so telegraphed, I just can't believe you don't see it coming. Its like watching Radahn pull his greatbow back, and just watching the arrow hit you.

Yeah its great. FromSoft keeps evolving boss fights while all other devs are stuck in the past

head goes up to charge energy. head comes down when done charging. i wonder if he'll shoot it then? retard

>It's not always bad
ENTER

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radahn's arrow has a travel time, it's not quite the same

These are minor changes and include nerfs to OP builds and glitches so the game isn't 100% "easier".

>unreactable teleport

Dodge backwards immediately when he disappears. If he reappears before you dodged then you were too slow.

gelmir one is easy cause you can just use torrent

I don't know. I think a large part of it is that Dark Souls 3 conditioned players to react too soon. As soon as an enemy spots you, they teleport up to you and start reeeeing and shit with attacks that have zero wind up frames, so you usually had to just roll pre-emptively because a lot of attacks come with no warning. But in Elden Ring, I think enemies have more normal behavior.

>No sound cue or animation

That's what those are for. So you can react. Also, it does require forward planning because you have to be attacking and you don't want to be in the middle of an attack animation when you want to roll, obviously. But input buffering and input reading complicate this even further.

>you just reacted too early
There is no "reacting too early" you either react or you don't and get sent back to respawn. There is in fact a difference between reacting and rote memorization of patterns like you see in a typical rhythm game and in Elden Ring. Dark souls is a fantasy rhythm game with a tacked on RPG system now.

>one hit kill moves
please wear holy defense