So what exactly was her endgame? Did she even think that far into the future or was it all a scam?

Isn't her goal in luring you to Trayus Core on Malachor to get you to lead an army of forceless sith assassins?

It was to train you to defeat the true sith. Its amazing how many midwits think it was anything else. She needed to present herself as a threat that would need to be stopped whether you were a jedi or sith. It was all part of your final test.

The part that gets me is that after you defeat her she basically says "Well you beat me so I guess that proved me wrong after all" and dies
Like wtf? I can only guess they are going the Nietsche route and you're supposed to be her uberman

>go sith and kill the jedi because lul evulz
>nearly 10 minutes of kreia telling you how much of a fuck up you are
>stabs herself for no other reason than fuck you

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Yeah that part made no sense. So I did what Kreia was going to do anyway (her alleged goal was to kill all Sith and Jedi anyway) and she still gets mad.

>she still gets mad
she gets mad because the exile sought the easiest form of revenge, ei killing the council, rather than gathering them and showing them that they were wrong, and that their teachings are flawed.
She tells you this word for word.

Yeah but this is after she also told you not to listen to the Jedi, that the Jedi are messing up the galaxy and are just as bad as the Sith, and even gives you a free lesson on how to kill each Jedi master as you're beating them to death with your fists.

She doesn't like the jedi, and she kills them herself when they resort to trying to kill you after you asemble them all.
The point is, and she says this herself, that she wanted them to look the exile in the eye and realize that they were wrong and fucked up, and they aren't infallible. She wanted to knock them off their high horse.

Kreia wants you to see things her way or do things her way but also make your own path and she hates The Force and also thinks highly of Revan and also hates Atton even though hes not privy to her bullshit and could resist her mind-rape for a bit.

How exactly were they wrong? The Exile is an eldrich abomination created as a side effect by annihilating a planet who has the ability to feed on Force users. The Sith then use this knowledge to begin training assassins that feed on Force sensitives and have nearly wiped out the entire Jedi Order by the time of the start of the game. All they did was exile you the first go round, then admitted they were probably too harsh (which is being a bit generous since you literally killed a planet and created Nihilus who killed even more planets), then they want to cut you off from the Force so that you don't wipe out the Jedi. Unless Kreia's point was that the Jedi should prepare for an even bigger threat by giving up on the Force, then what is the point in getting the Jedi to agree with her? And she ends up killing them anyway so it ends up not mattering.

>hate them hypocrite jedi
>hate them faggot sith
Make them kill each other off.

Kill 'em all let Kreia sort them out

>Do as she says
>”Why are you blindly following orders?”

>Don’t do as she says
>”Nooo wtf is wrong with you? You are so barbaric!”

WHAT DO YOU WANT KREIA???

"killing the force" makes about as much sense as killing gravity.

She wanted to destroy the self-righteous dogma of both the Jedi and the Sith for wronging her. Both factions betrayed her because her beliefs were far too liberal for either side. The Jedi thought she was corrupt, while the Sith felt she was weak, or something to that effect. Her actual ideology is that the Will of the Force, which is something that both factions reference irregularly, is purely tyrannical, forcing conflict and disorder by pitting Light and Dark against each other. What is particularly interesting is that the Sith prophecy of a Sith'ari might be a misunderstood reference to this tyranny. The Sith ideal is to become free from all limitations, using the Force as a tool. It's possible that the Sith code, which ends with "The Force shall free me", is mistaken. It might have originally (or was intended to be by the ancient Sith) been the opposite, where the goal is to be free from the trappings of the Force.

I think she unironically wants to use you to kill Nihilus so she can go back to being queen Sith. Then after that she wants you to lead her army of Force killers. Any time you listen to Force sensitives other than her or make a decision that lines up with sith code / jedi code she gets mad. But this just comes off to the player as unpleasable Kreia.

I don't know, but her voice actor was so good I thought her very convincing.
Too bad Disney destroyed Star Wars for good.

The force is not like gravity its more of an life force that makes you jump over a 10m wide canal when a lioness is chasing you.
In reality harnessing something like that on demand and at your moments of choice to change the flow of events would make the person capable of it incredibly powerfull.
Like izanagi and izanami in naruto or when king Arthur wins th duel against Lancelot that he should have lost by all means.

>Too bad Disney destroyed Star Wars for good.
The Last Jedi was basically a retold Kotor 2 with old Luke as Kreia

It's not that complicated when you peel back the layers of bullshit and misdirection
1. Kill Nihilus and Sion so that their teachings would die with them (specifically the power to sever the Force and feed on it)
2. To either round up thee last remaining Jedi's so she could gloat, or to kill them if the player wants to go that way. Either way she triumphs over them.
3. To ensure that the Exile survives and passes on what she has learned so that she can have a metaphorical victory over the Force / destiny.

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Just accept all of Kreia's 'teachings' was just manipulative bullshit to get what she wanted. All her students left her, betrayed her or failed for a good fucking reason. She was full of shit. What did she want? Kill the Jedi Council for exiling her. Kill the Sith for betraying her. Kill the Force itself because she can't blame herself for her many, many failures and has to project onto something else.

So use the Exile to kill everyone on her butthurt list, then kill the Exile or herself at the heart of Malachor to unleash the Death Echo. That is it. Simple as. Revenge. Nothing more complicated. And that's exactly what she did and the only reason she didn't get away with it was she pissed off the Exile so badly that the Exile used the Dark Side to kill her through the Force Bond.

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A poor atempt maybe.
But the wrecking came later, with TROS. That movie was such a shitshow it is almost impossible to list all of its problems.
I'm surprised JJ Abrams can still find work in Hollywood.

No it wasnt. The dumbafags just tried to rip of EU as much as they could but fumbled and stumbled at every step while raping everything SW is about.

This is what bothered me the most. Since you know Kreia is a liar, the only thing you can trust is what she does rather than what she says. The only thing you actually see her do is betray you and kill the jedi. She spends 99% of the game shit talking with nothing to back it up and for all you know she is making up everything including her past.

The massive holocaust at Malachor, which was already a unique Dark Side hellhole, created a anti-life echo, a "wound" in the Force, like Darth Nihilus was. Nihilus was actually at Malachor but far enough away that the Echo didn't kill him immediately but it still tainted him and was slowly killing him. Kreia taught him how to preserve his existence by using the Echo and the Dark Side to feed on the Force. The unvarnished Echo was preserved in the Exile because she was at the heart of it and decided to cut herself off from the Force as a survival mechanism. She was no longer Force-sensitive so it couldnt kill her but she still had the pure memory of the Echo in her mind. Kreia's plan was to re-power up the Exile by Force bonding her with every clueless Force sensitive they came across then kill the Exile at the heart of Malachor to unleash the Echo again at a Dark Side nexus and create a self sustaining wound in the Force. Basically replicate what happened to Nihilus but at a planetary scale which would eventually consume the Galaxy.

The game just explained this piss poorly.

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>replicate what happened with nihilus
>tainted him and was slowly killing him
kreia wanted to kill everyone in the galaxy?

>game refuses to explain the plot
>the theories that the players come up with to fill in the gaps are better writing than the actual game script
>suddenly the game is "deep" and "thought provoking"

Forgot MFW

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It's not a "Theory". Obsidian Devs explained it fully because they understood they failed to get it across in the release. If you restore the available cut content it does a better job of explaining the plot. "Better" but not good enough.

But the game was rushed as fuck and not explaining how Kreia actually could achieve the death of the Force with the Echo, and that she had already achieved a proof of concept with Nihilus, was a giant stupid plot point. There was a reason the plot had you chasing her down at Malachor; otherwise it made no sense for you to do so once Nihilus was dead. Even if killing Sion was an objective, he was always happy to come to you, this wouldn't have necessitated a suicide mission to Malachor. The cast went to Malachor to stop Kreia from unleashing the Echo by killing herself (which would also kill the Exile through their mutual Force bond) and to undo the mass shadow generator to prevent someone from ever trying such a feat ever again. Which again, they explained piss poorly in the release version.

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even with restored content none of the individual details add up imo. it all sounds very important and significant when kreia is babbling at you but when you try to piece it all together it falls apart. even your explanations just now don't really make any sense, I still don't know what you're trying to say her endgame was, or what the consequence of killing or destroying the force is, which seems a vague goal, and everything kreia was ostensibly doing toward that goal felt like convoluted nonsense

Kill the Exile or herself at the heart of Malachor, where the veil between reality and the Force was thinnest to direct the psychic backlash from the holocaust created at Malachor into the Force to create a reverberation that would kill every force sensitive in the Galaxy and hopefully, to Kreia's mind, fatally wound the Force itself.

But why didn't this happen when the Exile kills Kreia / Kreia dies of plot poisoning? Why does she even think she can kill the Exile when she couldn't kill Nihilus? For that matter, what was the point of killing Nihilus?

Did she actually want to kill the force, as in stop people from being able to use it at all, or did she just want people to stop using it as the Jedi Order and Sith were doing and thus "destroy the force" as we know it

You might just be stupid, friend.

Nihilus gets power from people dying
The exile gets power from people living and dying
The exile however chose not to feed on all the people dying at Malachor but had to cut off their connection to the force

It's more about getting rid of its "influence".

Avalon was making a commentary on the prequels which he felt were turning Star Wars into something he didn't like. On some levels he understood the setting better than most Star Wars Fanatics but in others he completely missed the point or maybe he didn't like the point.

>Where he is right
The force is clearly a guiding will that seems to favor some over others and gives people a destiny that they will follow. Avalon doesn't like settings that are deterministic and the prequels were turning Star Wars into one but having major plot points about the chosen one and turning Anakin into Jedi Jesus rather than a person that made choices.

>Where he was wrong
Star Wars is a setting where good and evil are objective truths. He misunderstood the Dark Light dichotomy by thinking that "balance" meant equal parts light and dark. Lucas always intended for the dark side to be a perversion of the force, a poison. In the same way your body is out of balance when you are sick, dying, or poisoned, you are brought back into balance when the toxin is removed. The Force is a spiritual "body" and the Dark side of the force is the poison that needs to be removed.

>Avalon doesn't like settings that are deterministic
The irony here is that in order to make Kotor 2, basically all of the decisions made in the first game had to be nullified (remember that war you won, actually it never ended) and by forcing the player down a predetermined path, the choices you make don't matter. It would be great for example if you could drop Kreia off on an asteroid and blow it up into space dust, but Kreia is a Mary Sue who is omniscient and conveniently happens to have plot armor no matter what the situation (like having sole access to the hyperdrive on the Ebon Hawk and you can't bypass it). It is not possible to prove Kreia wrong since she always gets the last word. In the first game, you could either save the galaxy or dominate it, the second gives you a non-choice and a non-ending which just pisses players off.

>Why does she even think she can kill the Exile when she couldn't kill Nihilus?
Because she knew all about the Exile's force bonding specialty and takes advantage of it. So if Kreia killed herself, it would kill the Exile. That's why she stabs herself at Dantooine to prove that point. However:

Dark Side: Exile just does Nihilus did to Kreia and vampires her force powers through their force bond to shut her up.

Light Side: Kreia wants to preserve the Exile and decides she doesn't go through with it.

>For that matter, what was the point of killing Nihilus?
Nihilus would have consumed ALL life in the Galaxy. Kreia wasn't THAT evil. She just wanted to kill the Force, not murder the Galaxy. Nihilus was her experimenting with Force Wounds and it blew up in her face. Because she is a dumb bitch who can never think ahead. She needed to fix the problem before it was too late. She was happy to 'reconcile' with Sion but Nihilus had to die before it all went to shit. Even Sion figured out Nihilus was beyond reason and tried to betray him but got vampired, although he can't die. In cut content of course. Which is why he is so drained and Kreia could just waltz in there and suddenly be his equal again at Malachor.

Get rid of it completely. In her mind, all her failures were because the Will of the Force prevents either the Jedi or the Sith from achieving total victory. The Force itself betrayed Kreia first in her mind. And when Kreia gets betrayed, she pretty much has a default response to it.

Her endgame was to finish the Exile's training and ready him or her to face the coming threat. This involved the Exile killing her, so she staged something that he or she would be unable to ignore. She never intended to kill the force, but she was prepared to go through with it if the Exile failed.

>He misunderstood the Dark Light dichotomy by thinking that "balance" meant equal parts light and dark
He is right on that one, george lucas, dumb fuck as he is said that Luke was not the "chosen one", even though the clone wars tv series even had an episode were Yoda is told that there is another skywalker (luke) who was gonna be the chosen one. Instead he said anakin becomes Darth vader, kills all the jedi, then kills palpatine and boom, force is now balanced. It is also a perfect explanation of why Windu says that their ability to feel the force was diminishing, because just like Avalon idea, it influenced jedi to never notice that palpi was right there.

>She just wanted to kill the Force, not murder the Galaxy
Isn't that exactly what would happen if she succeeded, since all life is connected to the Force and she even says that

The funniest thing is that his misunderstanding lead to him being angry about it. Ryan Jonson made the exact same mistake and it lead to the exact same "deconstructive" criticism of the setting. They both complain that it is stupid to have an endless cycle of war between the sith and jedi and that the force "balancing" itself over and over is pointless because the moment it goes out of balance again it will cause another conflict. At the end of RotJ the Sith are dead and gone. Only the Jedi remain so the retarded notion that "Anakin brought balance by killing everyone" hollow because Luke is a jedi and he is still around. The only difference is that Avalon is a competent writer so it lead to pretty good if unfinished game.

All life being connected to the Force is what she is trying to undo. This is why she joygasms about the Exile because for her it is proof that living creatures do not need the Force to survive and she can proceed with her plan.

And her plan is to "undo" it by killing 99% of everyone?

>And her plan is to "undo" it by killing 99% of everyone?
No, her plan was to create an 'echo' in the Force, a psychic scream so loud that all Force Sensitives would be deafened to the Force and cut off from it.

Cutting off everyone from the Force would only kill people like the Jedi Masters who are so dependant on it they can't function without it.

She wants to destroy a fundamental aspect of reality that exists within her galaxy. Star Wars for the most part seems to imply that life doesn't need The Force to exist, but its connected to it in varying fashions. Some species of animals can use it, some can project a bubble that nullifies it while still being connected to it, then Force users of all sorts. We've only seen one example of beings that absolutely destroyed The Force and thats the Vong.

but every one is connected to the force. Is kreiya a retard?

The only ones that would die would be force sensitives. That's 0.000001% not 99.

>Electricity has been a blight on our planet and causes many of the inequalities we face to day. Ergo i am going to destroy all electricity.
>electricity leads to war
>electricity leads to death
>i will create freedom from electricity

this is what kreia sounds like. A retard.

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She was just seething at the force and blaming it for her lifetime of constant failure.

She's right though, the Force either turns everyone into air-headed, unearthly hermits or edgelord psychopaths