Elden Ring Lore

Honestly, that redditor touches on everything I said and even adds some more support. He devolves into schizo territory later in but he is absolutely right about about Banished Knights, Exiled Soldiers, Commander Niall and O'Neill belonging to red/gold banners with dragons on them. They are just some "mercenary force."
Which explains my question to why supposed "Mercenaries" were held closer than Godrick's own men.
Feel free to just copy paste them if you want.

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Just fyi you're going to get into a lot of arguments with people who believe all life originated with the Greater Will when the beast became the ring thus all runes come from the ring by default and mending runes don't matter they're different reeee. Also people who think GEQ was a host to her own order despite being an obviously retarded idea. And people who think Marika got it from GEQ, put it back into the ring, then stole it back out of it. I've been pointing this shit out for two months and it's amazing the gymnastics people perform to not have to think about it.

>GEQ was the previous host of the Elden Ring.

Interesting idea but the item descriptions say she was a mere Empyrean.

The GEQ was not the GW's god, there's no way. That would make her insanely powerful. She wouldn't need DD to kill gods, she would *be* a god that could just kill other gods.

The succession on the elden ring's host is described as empyreans being elected to replace the current god. There is no mention of having to fight said god, that would seem counter-productive to trying to form an Order on earth

>you're going to get into a lot of arguments with people who believe all life originated with the Greater Will
I believe that though. At least life from the crucible. Elden Stars is the oldest crucible incantation.

>all life originated with the Greater Will when the beast became the ring
Yes.
>thus
That isn't a "thus" statement, those two beliefs have no correlation or connection to each other. You're merely presenting them as tied together to weaken the first part of the sentence.
>Also people who think GEQ was a host to her own order
Yes.
>And people who think Marika got it from GEQ,
Yes, because it was in the Elden Ring she got from the GEQ.
>put it back into the ring,
No. Again you tie a retarded idea to a sound idea.
>I've been pointing this shit out for two months
Yes, in every thread, incessantly, as you try to push your schizo infograph in the OP no matter how many times people tell you it's wrong.

Pick your poison, Malenia flowchart edition.
People seem very split on where they actually land, although that may just be that the fringe theorists are the main ones who speak up.
Quite a lot of defenders of the "Malenia's 2nd bloom was against the player" theory, which I would think is a very minority opinion.

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Didn't the God of the Deathbirds once own Destined Death?

I have a love and hate relationship with plebbit.
This post is a good discovery but then we have some lorelet schizos like this, who had a total hate bonner for Miquella.
reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/ub3oib/miquellas_followers_are_brainwashed/
I'm tired of these lorelet shits that are obsessed with Griffin, man.

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Maybe make a big poster size with your own post? I used canvas once.

>2nd
>No
She only unleashed the Rot God's power once (one time) in your fight. That was the bloom. The flower is just a consequence of Rot rebirth cycle bullshit.
>Those who dwell within poison know rot all too well. The death that begets life, that comes to all equally. That is to say: it is the cycle of rebirth put into practice.

These look like Pizzagate schizo tier charts
what are you guys doing with your lives

Last thread was probably the best I've seen for this game. Feels like we actually made some kind of progress.

Honestly he's fucking right. This is a FROMSOFT game. Do you REALLY think Miyazaki would truly create some ultra saint character who can fix everything and has no flaws whatsoever? That alone should have been a massive red flag.
>The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.
The very fact that the Bewitching Branch is created by an "incantation of unalloyed gold" should make you suspicious as to Miquella's intentions and means.

Exiled soldiers/banished knights are Godwyn's men.

The two banners in picrel, left being in stormveil and right being in stranded graveyard, both feature exiled soldiers and banished knights, except those in stranded graveyard are ghosts.
This banner is clearly connected to them in same way, whether it's Godwyn's or not. It is solid red with gold marks and features a dragon at the top of it. You can also note Niall and O'neill summon banished knights or exiled soldiers and brandishes a banner identical to the carpets in Stormveil. Banished knight helms have two alternative designs. One with a gold/red cloth on it, and one with just a straight up metal dragon at the top of it.

Godwyn was a dragonfucker and has heavy ties to them, befriending them, starting the dragon cult and having on them try and save him in his dream. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest he had a dragon emblem as a banner.
Wherever there are exiled soldiers/banished knights there is a connection to Godwyn:
>Stormveil personally protecting his last heir Godrick
>Farum Azula where he fought dragons (knights)
>Church of the dragon communion, dragon cult (knight)
>Stranded graveyard, accompanied by the dragon banner that is also in stormveil. (ghosts, both)
>Castle sol, an area led by Niall who has an identical carpet banner and the castle is an eclipse/mausoleum oriented faction, attempting to give Godwyn a soul. He summons banished knights too.
>O'Neill, summons exiled soldiers, the jap text said Godrick swore "obedience" to malenia and I think he joined Malenia to fight Radahn and the "lord was fled" refers to him. Same banner as Niall.
Godrick has two sets of soldiers, his own with a tree/lion, and then the exiled/banished knights who guard him more closely. Despite the flags being lions, there are also stormhawk and dragon emblems in Stormveil that seemingly have been paved over. Also, note how the soldiers do storm arts just like the knights and walk with them, they're clearly close allies.

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So she's only ever bloomed twice? Where...does she go? She just vanishes after 2nd phase.
I don't subscribe to the theory but I can understand people who say 2nd bloom transition, 3rd bloom after 2nd phase death, and now she's waiting to be reborn. But if you say transition is 2nd bloom, then wtf happens after 2nd phase?

>obvious shit that you would know if you read item descriptions
>BIGGEST DISCOVERY YET

last thread was terrible and full of ranni haters

yeah and he twisted everything into manipulation? Even by sabotaging his own tree and letting ppl in his place wait for an eternity?

it's a troll/bait

So some of Godwyn's men went with Godrick. Others went with Malenia to Caelid, and others went to the Mountaintops with Miquella?

So there's dragon communion and dragon cult incantations. The cult is like beast men. Probably more ancient. What dragon communion? Do they like or hate dragons? Since it seems like they need to kill dragons to get more power. What do they think of each other?

Is there anything describing the Frenzied Flame that doesn't come from its supporters? It looks like its just a big pile of lies to get you to burn down the world from every angle, but I can't remember anyone describing it from the outside.

>Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a true goddess.
Scarlet Aeonia incantation, phrased after your fight with her, meaning she hasn’t had a third bloom yet

>godfrey's last great foe was a big birb
>was also literally a king of stormveil somehow
explain

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Melina.
>If you intend to claim the Frenzied Flame, I ask that you cease. It is not to be meddled with. It is chaos, devouring life and thought unending.

>I believe that though.
That's a shame. The dragon ring depicted in Farum Azula is different to the ring of the Golden Order, despite clearly both being depictions of the Elden Ring, so your assertion that no runes are shown removed before then is wrong as it clearly has more attached to it than what the GO has.
I'm repeating arguments people have made, not suggesting that separate parts of those argument are intrinsically tied together. I'm not OP you paranoid schizo, OP is a retard who believes GEQ was Marika all along. I'm the guy who asserts the ring predates the beast. If you think GEQ hosted her own order when so little information exists on her and she's only ever referred to as empyrean then you're too far fucking gone anyway.

>Interesting idea but the item descriptions say she was a mere Empyrean.
Where does this notion of "gods are not empyreans" come from? Obviously Marika herself is an empyrean, hence why she could play host to the ER.

>The GEQ was not the GW's god, there's no way. That would make her insanely powerful. She wouldn't need DD to kill gods, she would *be* a god that could just kill other gods.
That's a flawed idea. In the previous thread did people not just have a long argument about how Marika wanted to have a godslaying blade created? If Marika could do that she wouldn't need something external to herself.

>The succession on the elden ring's host is described as empyreans being elected to replace the current god.
This immediately raises a question - If the Gloam-Eyed Queen was an empyrean chosen by the Fingers for godhood as we're told, who then was she chosen to replace?
>Marika?
It could not have been Marika, as the Golden Order was only created through the GEQ being cast down, and the Fingers were content in Marika's godhood for (presumably) thousands of years.
>Some other host of the ER?
If we accept that someone else hosted the Ring before Marika (obviously true through the context of the dragons), the question still remains, how did Marika come to host the ER and what happened to the previous host?

If it is the case that she succeeded someone to become the host, does it not follow that the most likely candidate for that person would be the GEQ, someone who is called a Queen, had a cadre of nobility behind her, explicitly controlled a Rune of Death (with Runes being heavily linked to the ER, even with the notion of the mending runes they're all intended to be paired with the ER and provide no power on their own), was chosen by the Fingers, and whom was killing Gods left and right?

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But literally everyone in these threads say DD was removed from the Elden Ring to make people immortal.... That's what Vaati spouts.

Obviously Melina

there's also the flame shield
>Carried by soldiers of the village that is afflicted by frenzy.
>The yellow flame is the symbol of the affliction, serving as a warning to those who might approach the village.

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it was terrible because it was full of ranni lovers desu

the pope in these lands is a turtle. anything can be anybody.

>in the comments he suggests that Miquella fucking cut off Malenia's limbs himself and used the prosthetics to somehow mind control her

Jesus fucking christ

So just confirming; people in the lands between are in fact either immortal or really long-lived? Since the night of black knives and stuff all happened an age ago, but people like Kenneth can casually recall it happening?

>Others went with Malenia to Caelid
Nah, I think they joined Malenia after Godrick "begged for mercy" jap text has him "Swear obedience" indicating I think he joined her side when she went to go fight Radahn.
More evidence on Niall being Godwyn's:
Fitted by placing one's hands into the fists' grips until they dig in. "O clinging creature. A king relinquishes not the hand."

Veteran's Prosthesis [21120000]
>Bladed prosthetic leg enwreathed with the power of lightning, instead attached to the fist. >Commander Niall, veteran of Castle Sol, offered this prosthesis in exchange for the lives of defeated knights held prisoner. He went on to lead these men as an army of no nation
Veteran's Greaves [780300]
>Old greaves that have seen many battles. Worn by Niall, the veteran general of Sol.
>Niall was a lone survivor who commanded spirits to defend his long-passed master.
>This aging general could not die, nor did he have anywhere to fade away.
Niall: "could not die" "spirits to defend his long-passed master" and has a lore ghost after him talking about helping Miquella give Godwyn a soul.

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>phrased after you fight with her
disagree. Gideon gets the spell after you tell him of the Haligtree, no fight with Malenia required. The spell exists outside of you beaten Malenia and getting her rememberance. So the spell predates that, meaning she's bloomed 2x before you force her to bloom again.

He feels more like a baby Jesus to me, doing everything to return the people love for him by 10 folds. As far as I'm concerned, he hasn't done any evil deeds so judging a character by one item is very unfair in my opinion.
There are some good people in this game like Godwyn, Radahn (inadvertently he went to wars but he held the ayy lmao stars), Rodericka, Hewg, Boc, Malikeith, etc so I don't see it's impossible.
Malenia, Marika, and Ranni are not total evils character for me either.
Nevertheless, his character suffered heavily from cut content so it's understandable why people would have a total flip understanding of his character.

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Stormveil has had so many masters changed.
There are:
>Metal Hawk emblems on the defenses, on the walls and shields
>Faded Godwyn red/gold dragon carpets and banners
>Finally Godrick's gold lion banners
It's really fucking confusing.

I think you're taking gameplay/fight mechanics too seriously.

Some form of immortal, yeah.
Aristocrat Headband:
>Abandoning their birthplace after the Shattering, these undead wanderers are pitiful product of unending life.

>That's a shame.
why deny the elden stars incantation?

>The dragon ring depicted in Farum Azula
Yes it is certainly bigger than the one in Radagon. I don't view it as having any canon meaning since it is just art but I'll entertain the idea. Perhaps some ancient dragons modified it, but as far as Marika goes there is no mention of her breaking the ER apart besides the shattering which she was punished for. So if DD was part of the ER it's still very unclear what the timeline is, why it wasn't put back in the ER to repair it, where are the other great runes, why hasn't the ER been repaired in all this time?

I feel that user got mindraped by Mogh really hard.

Deathbirds deal in undeath, ghostflame, rituals of resurrection, hexed spirits, they are of the same type of sorceries as Fia's Mist and Tibia's Summons, those who live in death, not the final ending offered by DD.

I just see no reason to think the spell description takes your fight into account when counting the number of blooms.

This totally ignores the fact that the removal of the Rune of Death is, much like the Darksign Curse in Dark Souls, the lore explanation for why the player and most enemies respawn.

It's also really odd to assume that the Elden Ring is basically just a list of rules and has no baring on how reality works. We know that the Elden Ring has power, and we know that its runes do have control over varying aspects.

whomst

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>OP is a retard who believes GEQ was Marika all along.
i don't think that anymore, and i always said it was my speculative head canon and not something i was attached to

Communion is probably newer. They get their powers by eating dragon hearts, which only the descendants of ancient dragons and magma wyrms drop. They admire the strength of dragons and want to make it their own, but ultimately turn into dragons themselves. Dragons hate them, as mentioned in Ekzyke's breath: "Ekzykes, Dragon Communion Revenger, did not forget his hatred even as he succumbed to the scarlet rot."

>Lord of Frenzied Flame... I will seek you, as far as you may travel... To deliver you what is yours. Destined Death.
KINO

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Interesting points. I always thought it was weird that Morgot referred to Godrick as "the golden" and just assumed it was due to his reverence of the golden lineage. But after thinking about it, the fact that Godrick has a throne in the Capital means that he was respected and treated like a Lord at one point. Also, the description of Mimic's Veil mentions that when Godrick was "hounded" from the capital, he took a lot of treasure with him. The word hounded means he was chased away from or kicked out. He never managed to break into the capital in the siege he led against it, so clearly he lived inside it before the shattering and if he had access to the treasury he must have been someone of high rank, or at least have enough allies within the governing body to allow him to sack the treasury.
Knowing this, I think that first defense of Leyndell wasn't a siege or and all out war, but rather a coup from within, with Godfrey and Godefroy, being at the center of it. The wording is very specific, in that it mentions that it was "sovereign alliance" and a "bloody conspiracy" that was the cause, not a siege like the second defense of Leyndell.

No sir, the incantation is from her remembrance which necessitates her defeat

Also why does roundtable vyke not use madness? Just dragon culture. Was that his belief before?

no, read the op image

hey vaati maybe you should base your entire lore-view on more than just a single item description.

>破砕戦争の後、故郷を捨てた彼らは
>やがて、さまよえる亡者となった
>死なぬだけの長生の果てに

w-whoa, the undead (亡者) don't heckin die??? this is crazy news, thank you for pointing it out to me.

also did you even notice that they only became undead after the SHATTERING? i.e. the war that followed after the assassination of Godwyn whose corpse is responsible for spreading Deathroot throughout the lands between?

Isn't that interesting? That it happened after that and not hundreds of years ago after the RoD was removed from the ER? Kinda crazy coincidence, it's the same time a bunch of TWLID appeared too!

Want to see another 亡者 in this game?
eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Putrid Corpse Ashes
These guys! They are called 腐った亡者 ... here is a snippet from their text:
>True death does not come easily for them.
Man this is crazy... it's almost like TWLID and 亡者 are the same thing and mainly a result of Deathroot which only became a thing long, long after the RoD was sealed away.

oh, you’re OP?
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah Vyke and Lansseax used to fuck

>We know that the Elden Ring has power
i agree with you that the elden ring is extremely powerful and important. that should be obvious by the power shards of it (great runes) gave to its wielders (the shardbearers). and the power you can gain from them as well in-game.

then of course there is the great rune of death, which is also very powerful. it can kill (demi)gods. (apparently a +10 somber weapon can also kill gods according to the crafting items description lol)

But to say that when you kill things in the game they don't die is quite a stretch. I don't see how any reasonable person could actually play the game and conclude that no one is dying

besides that, it is the "living incarnation of the concept of order."
"order" of course in the legal sense. meaning it can somehow be modified and re-programmed according to different sets of laws and beliefs. Not hard to imagine when you take into consideration a dragon used to be elden lord before the Erdtree, I doubt he enforced laws about souls returning to the Erdtree. Functionally I'm not totally sure how this works, but the Elden Ring lives inside of a God and seems to control that God to some degree (as the fingers control empyreans). So perhaps it's just 1. reprogram the elden ring 2. the god gets reprogrammed as well 3. you now have a god using force and compulsion to enforce the laws on society 4. this leads to wars of course, like the war with the giants, cuz not everyone agrees with such laws

your vaati hate blinds you, please explain how characters like thops or kenneth can personally remember events that happened an age ago

The differences between the dragon ER and GO ER would suggest that the Elden Ring has changed many times over time.

Additionally, there's another issue with the demigods and their Great Runes. How did they get them, and when? For example Radagon gave Rennala the rune of rebirth when he left her to marry Marika, obviously before the ER was shattered.

Didn't seenthat. thanks

>He never managed to break into the capital in the siege
Exactly, he did not break in, he actually ran out of it, this is one of the things everyone gets wrong.
>I think that first defense of Leyndell wasn't a siege or and all out war,
I found that A LOT of people are implicated in it. Godefroy is just one of them, he might be the ringleader.

It's a nice castle.

Yes, his master plan is to be a NEET sleep god and possibly get to live with Godwyn there, make a new world for the spurned crucible creatures, for his sister, and adopt Tarnished as his child.
I don't even know if I want to marry Trina or Miquella...

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Slow player who just beat the game here. I read that some people assumed that Marika is still alive somehow, but I don't think that's the case. The Frenzied Flame likely melted what was left of her, Ranni tossed her head in a gutter, and in the Elden Lord endings I get the impression that she would be no more than an immobile host for the Ring, especially because some of those endings would likely be deplorable to her. But maybe, just maybe, in the generic ending she could perhaps be mended in some way and you losers will get your waifu. She is sort of cute, for used goods.

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>Only, its doors have been closed for quite some time now.
>After they declared they wouldn't interfere with the Shattering, the academy cast repelling seals on the east gate leading to the Capital and the south gate leading here.
>As you might have guessed, the seals are still active, making entry to the academy impossible without a glintstone key.
>And so I'm stuck here. A fledgling sorcerer, with little chance of acquiring a key.
>When they cast the seals, I'd just popped out, and now I'm uprooted from my place of learning.
So Thops was kicked out of the Academy when the Shattering first happened? How is he still alive?

>But to say that when you kill things in the game they don't die is quite a stretch. I don't see how any reasonable person could actually play the game and conclude that no one is dying

Let's be honest, From is pretty washy on explaining how you kill things in their games, or even if you do.

>today i will remind them

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>please explain
you still haven't explained how people die in the game if death isn't a thing btw

>characters like thops or kenneth can personally remember events that happened an age ago
post which quotes you think prove they can't die

It's just the typical lorelet analysis of "what if good thing BAD" by hyperfocusing on one single aspect of a character and having everything revolve around said aspect to explain their actions. Like I don't think that OP actually knows what unalloyed gold is in the lore because it's the exact opposite of mind control powers, being literal tin foil hats used to ward away influence from the Outer Gods.

He was locked out when the academy declared they wouldn't do anything about it, which is not necessarily when the Shattering happened.

did you reply without reading my post at all

i said long-lived or immortal, as in biologically immortal, as in they don't die of old age

i guess people have just stopped aging

>But maybe, just maybe, in the generic ending she could perhaps be mended
The generic ending is the fucking Age of Fracture. At least in the Mass Effect endings, there's one more rune holding her skeleton in place.

>"order" of course in the legal sense. meaning it can somehow be modified and re-programmed according to different sets of laws and beliefs. Not hard to imagine when you take into consideration a dragon used to be elden lord before the Erdtree,
I agree that the "concept of order" doesn't necessarily mean a single particular order and could apply to several different orders, but I disagree with the idea it's mere legality, it seems like we're talking way more about the principles underlaying reality than just a set of rules and regulations.

>the Elden Ring lives inside of a God and seems to control that God to some degree (as the fingers control empyreans). So perhaps it's just 1. reprogram the elden ring 2. the god gets reprogrammed as well 3. you now have a god using force and compulsion to enforce the laws on society
Marika's shattering and Ranni's plot would pretty definitively debunk the idea that they're being controlled by the Fingers or the Elden Ring.

>Radagon gave Rennala the rune of rebirth

source? the item description just says it is an amber egg. again no mention of the elden ring

>Exiled, army of no nation
>"long-passed master."
>Trying to kill Godwyn
wew

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It's the canon ending because Melina dying just feels wrong and no red-blooded Tarnished could resist Hyetta's cuteness.

cuz all that happened since then was a war? you're acting like the shattering was 1000 years ago