Did she fucked Simon on purpose? Or was he too dumb to understand there's no coin toss?

Sure, but it's the best way the human brain can understand instant clones. You are you, he is you but then not. For the guy who teleport, everything is peachy, for the guy who dies everytime, it's death.

Kinda like the end of Prestige.
youtube.com/watch?v=C4Rrj5eRdy0

Everytime a clone is created, he realize that he will die.

its an existential cointoss even though the outcome is predetermined (the previous simon will never somehow teleport into the new body)
but from an existential standpoint, their understand and memory of existence up to the point of the copy is presumably identical down to every last minutiae. however, one has the rotten 'luck' to be the one in the shittier situation, while the other, by no virtue other than being the copy, gets to be on the ark or not trapped in a chair or whatever.
there are obviously different ways to look at conciousness and existence than this, so dont seethe and butthurt if you disagree just respond like a normal human

i don't like that the game always immediately switches to the newer copy at every other instance, except at the end when simon uploads to the ark and the perspective stays at the abyss simon. i think it was a narrative choice to make readily clear his shit situation, but i think it sort of disassembles their examination of the 'coin toss', and i also think the ending might've been grimmer if they had shown ark simon first, then cut back to the abyss. but cant be sure.

Midwits detected

isn't it more like being constructed at a new location than teleportation of any kind?
like all the hats are new hats and the double cat is a new cat, not a cat sent from one location to another

>i don't like that the game always immediately switches to the newer copy at every other instance, except at the end when simon uploads to the ark and the perspective stays at the abyss simon. i think it was a narrative choice to make readily clear his shit situation, but i think it sort of disassembles their examination of the 'coin toss'
I dunno, it's one unbroken chain of consciousness either way, right?

That's the only way known teleport could exist. You cant move matter at the speed of light, but you can send light signals at the speed of light to build somebody.
You clone yourself, and the starting point would kill the original you and the destination would build a new you.

She explained it poorly and Simon didn't understand the very clear thing that was going on.

Well duh, why would she fully explain it to him? He’s not going to do it otherwise. It was intentional.

I love soma for it's questions.
Are our bodies enough to be human? There's still moving bio,ass on earth made from us, does that count?
Do our minds count as human? Do the disembodied minds in the ark count as human? They have no awareness or way to interact with the physical world.
Do the uploaded minds count as human? They live a delusion yes but they has a physical form, they can interact.

Simon dies and is remade constantly anyway since he's a computer : there's no permanency of consciousness when your brain has a clock rate

Why try to explain it at all if she was just looking to fuck him over? Just make up some lie instead of using a dumb metaphor.
I'm saying she didn't intend to cheat him, to fuck him over - she just didn't do a good job explaining to him that they would never leave but they could create copies that would.
She thought her explanation was good enough.

there's no permanency of consciousness when you sleep every night either, as far as I'm concerned every time you wake up you're a new entity that inherited a bunch of memories and neural pathways

>when you sleep every night either
there is
if your brain ever stops working it means it's broken permanently

This game doesn't make sense. How can you even "copy" someone and have them think they're a real person? You can't just copy a soul, that's retarded.

>i also think the ending might've been grimmer if they had shown ark simon first, then cut back to the abyss. but cant be sure.
This was my exact thought within an hour of finishing the game, whether or not the order of those two scenes should have been reversed. It's the only time the player doesn't immediately take control of the new copy, so there's a bit of inconsistency. Narratively, it would have been much better for it to be consistent throughout the game I think, but it's kind of stifled just by the fact that it's a game, which ergo basically requires giving the player control of the new copies to solve whatever puzzle or situation is there.
I suspect this was something debated for months internally by Frictional as there are good arguments to be made either way.

Anyone with a triple digit IQ figured out some of the copies were getting screwed over basically as soon as it's mentioned that the player is a copy of a brain scan, but for everyone else the more '2spooky revelation' type ending works better when it's not explicitly spelled out till the end I think. But also from a storytelling perspective, Cath probably figured out Simon was a moron pretty quickly, and she knows if she told him the truth he'd just refuse to do anything.

Simon is fucking retarded and not thinking too hard about things was the only thing keeping him from having an existential crisis and breaking down. He even admits this once. Not stopping and forcing him to fully confront reality while they still had things to do was the right choice.

I torrented this game around a year ago but never got around to playing it. Should I? Already know how it ends.

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Something's retarded all right

It's all pure science fiction. You can't copy a person no matter what. Soul is not data.

Simon literally copy-pasted himself to that deep sea suit earlier in the game. He even had the choice of whether to kill the copy left behind. It's on him if he didn't understand.

There should have been a call back to that moment and what choice you made at the ending though.

Souls also don't exist.

Do it if you want experience the story and look at the environment. Just play on the easiest setting. The gameplay is dull as hell.

>The science fiction game is pure science fiction
Gee, you think? Is the sky blue as well?

Atheist midwits please stay quiet.

Go home christfag

>The gameplay is dull as hell.
Exactly the problem. Is the shit gameplay worth experiencing if I already know the intricacies of the story?

>Cath probably figured out Simon was a moron pretty quickly
the entire base is infested with people just like him, or people that killed themselves just after the brain scan because reasons

you are the midwit there was never a coin toss

Nope.
If you've played Amnesia you've already experienced a better version of the gameplay. And it's not like Amnesia was great to begin with.
It's the same stuff. You need to do a task in an area. There's a monster in the area. You can't be seen by it or stare at it too much. You have no tools or abilities, you have to hide or run away.
There's no enjoyment to be found here.

Prove that they exist.

pardon me but I just want a go at saying midwit, I haven't said it before. cheers.

its not even really an atheist thing necessarily its just a symptom of a wholly materialist worldview brought about by excessive rationalism in modern society
if it isn't tangible, measurable, or necessitated according to their personal framework of rationality (because rationality is ironically not universal) it doesn't exist

"Simon" was the most advanced reproduced human to ever exist and the WAU decided to put a literal NPC normie inside of it.
She realised she was working with a retard and so she has to treat him like one in order to get him to do anything.

>There's no enjoyment to be found here.
Guess I did the right thing by "playing" the game on youtube, then.

Well yeah. In a grand, meta, universal scale there was.
For the lack of a better explanation, he lost the destiny coin toss because he was always gonna be the one that sat in the chair and got copied instead of being the copy that got to continue.

I know you retards use le coin flip to troll but there are geniune brainlets who think that there is some gambling happening during the moment of copying.
So let me explain to you how data copying works. You cannot MOVE data like you would an object in real life. Data always gets copied when you move it from one location to another (for example from HDD to USB drive). Even the Cut/Paste option is copying the data, it just deletes the file from it's original location.
The only way any Simon could move to another body would be if they physically took the hard drive his brain is on and placed it in the new suit/body. Like a brain transplant.
in other words, kys

>it just deletes the file from it's original location.
ACTUALLY it just changes indexes, data is untouched

> soul

I think you mean consciousness.

You play as the third Simon while you get to experience the memories of first Simon (normal guy whose consciousness is scanned at the start of the game) and second Simon (wakes up in the future, walks around and builds third Simon. Their fate is your choice) and ultimately get to see the other side of the coin when fourth Simon is created.
Fourth Simon has memories of your Simon and has "lived" the same campaign up to the point where he is sent to the arc and you stay in the same body.

I think it was a fun twist. I don't know if a copy of a consciousness should be considered a person, given that you are a copy in the game. kino game.

This guy gets it.
>the game always immediately switches to the newer copy at every other instance
Thats probably why so many brainlets dont understand whats happening. If the game had no perspective switches then the doctor's visit would be uneventful, Simon would go home and die a month later. Or during the second switch he would wake up alone in the chair.
But obviously they couldnt do it that way because then the game could not continue.

We would be gigafucked if that technology existed. Someone could literally torture you for eternity if they wanted, extract information from you or just fuck with you.

Simon was retarded but Catherine deliberately misled him so that he would cooperate.

yeah but Simple Simon was the only one other than Cath to not be totally delusional. Everyone else was either completely deranged by gel or either believed they were human or believed they were somewhere else. He was realistically the only choice.

>he lost the destiny coin toss because he was always gonna be the one that sat in the chair and got copied instead of being the copy that got to continue.
Who is "he" here? Because there's a copy on the Ark, and several copies that never made it to the chair.

The bigger question here is.

Yea Forumsros do you or do you not kill yourself if you're looking at your sleeping old self. Or let him wake alone in the sealed off building? Why or why not? Explain your logic

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Poor fucker has no omnitool. He'll just be trapped while he slowly loses power like Simon 3. It was better to kill him.

Let him live
He's not me so he's not my problem

He is literally me, and either way the outcome is the same. Either I kill him, or he kills himself when he wakes up. To live alone in a base full of horrors with no hope is no life at all.

the neat part is I don't have to decide for myself because I can decide for myself when I wake up

Was talking about the one who was left behind when copying to the deep sea diving suit.
But each one of them were always gonna end up were they did because it was pre-destined. The original Simon was always going to die, the first copy that wakes up was always gonna stay in that chair (or get killed by his 2nd copy), his 2nd copy was always going to stay down in the railgun control chair and the last copy was always gonna end up in the Ark. There is no coin toss, except the one on an existential scale.

I'd like to think I'd be so poetic to let my other self live to forge his own destiny and make his own choices. But if I'm being honest with myself, to be alone, surrounded by pursuing jump scares. I'd think it would be better to just pull the plug and let me dream forever. But I'd at least be happy a version of myself did the impossible and escaped to space.

I don't know if you can even get out of the single room you'd be stuck in without an omnitool.

He's me and I know what I would want, so obviously I would kill him. Even if he was awake he would agree with me. No suit, no omnitool, no Catherine, I couldn't do shit if I stayed alive.
>I'd at least be happy a version of myself did the impossible and escaped to space
I'd probably be salty as fuck about it.

Well being stuck in a single room alone with no monsters until I die doesn't sound so bad. I'd get to goof around and do busy work until I realize I can't jerk off then probably off myself.

Simonpls

>"I'll never forget you, me."

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