TLOU2

>It's about how it made you feel, man, it's not about "getting" something or reaching a conclusion
>now excuse me.

Attached: _5S3eP.gif (320x213, 1.09M)

violence =bad
can we talk about how dumb it is to have an apocalypse and have a story not revolve around the apocalypse?

Do you have some good litterature with deep, challenging narratives?

>Why isn’t berserk getting a real adaptation
Do you want another one after *CLANK*?
Also Lost Children arc adapted never ever.

No, it's about as shallow as most things that appeal to teenagers and man-children, like if Zack Snyder adapted a YA novel.

(Me)
Also: Ellie's "just take him" probably refers to Joel as much as Lev. By letting go of Abby, she was letting go of Joel.
Also also, and this is more of a reach, but cutting Abby down from a stake then nearly drowning her gave me some serious resurrection/baptism vibes. I'm not sure if that was intended, or exactly what it might imply, or whether the author being jewish changes anything... but it was hard to ignore the idea that she was being reborn, or completing her penance, or something like that.

Attached: 561 - WDT5Vwd.jpg (3840x2160, 531.13K)

You must be 18 to post here.

Revenge=bad.

That's really it. Drukmann went full retard in telling a convoluted story that Moby Dick did 100 times better 100 years ago.

And what, pray tell, does a wise scholar of the human condition such as yourself consider a decent piece of literature?

Attached: 32f.jpg (251x242, 10.29K)

>Game says revenge bad
>Most people think it would have been better if the two main characters had just killed each other in the end
It could have worked but they fucked it, completely unsatisfactory ending

Ellie originally did kill Abby. Someone else showed up at the farmhouse later to complete the "cycle of violence" thing.
It was changed relatively late in development. In explaining why, Druckmann+Gross said the final version felt truer to Ellie's character.
(Source: their interview for the podcast "script apart")

Honestly, while I understand the controversy, I like the final version as it is. There's more room for interpretation and, in "rescuing" her character somewhat, it does serve to remind us of the optimistic kid Ellie used to be. And it makes it clear that Ellie is done with this stage of her life and is ready to move on and find something new to fight for.

harry potter

Twilight: New Moon

>Revenge bad
That was it, didn't really make sense considering Ellie killed hundreds of people just before she understood the lesson though.

That revenge is bad and it destroys you.
I think Berserk did the idea better.

First Blood

LUDO
NARRATIVE
DISSONANCE
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

not him, but what do Yea Forums think of "crime and punishment"?

Curious George

Motherfucker, are we not even going to count all those cutscenes where she killed random innocent characters in search for her dumb revenge?

Unironically this. Not everything has to have a single clear-cut message/moral/meaning.
The ending (like the whole story actually) was powerful and memorable but also deliberately messy and complicated, and relies to some degree on implication, non-verbal acting, cinematography, context, and personal interpretation rather than spelling out exactly what everyone is thinking. I like that. We don't get enough of it in games.

You mean the killings that were the result of an escalating situation getting out of her control and leaving her a distraught, traumatised, near-inconsolable wreck as she wrestles with what she's done? Those killings?

Attached: 192 - Gsm26au.jpg (3840x2160, 410.1K)

Yeah, this.
I can't even bring myself to buy it on sale or borrow it.

She has literally no character development

Abby kinda does, but for retarded reasons

Shit game

>Kills hundreds of people to get revenge
>Just when she is finally going to achieve it
>"Revenge Le Bad, OK"
God this game was terrible

Nah, it just sucked bro. It was just an edgy revenge story you have no control over in a game that shouldn't have been made. The whole reason it got made was to be polarizing and that type of storytelling is BORING. U r a geh if you dont agreeeeeeeee

>Also: Ellie's "just take him" probably refers to Joel as much as Lev.
Fuck off.

I watched Yahtzee's review too user.
He's wrong, and so are you. The Ellie at the end of this game could hardly be more different from the Ellie at the start.

leave the sauce. user

Fucking Call of Duty did the "Revenge is bad" thing with the Menendez vs Mason family's shitshow during Black Ops 2.
>You get the worst ending if you succumb to your desire of revenge and kill Menendez
>You get the best one if instead you send him to jail and ensure the right people are still alive to stop Menendez's last move.
>In the ending where Menendez kills Woods, he inmediatly commits suicide because he has nothing left to live for.

I really wish AAA game devs would find a new "deep" storytelling device besides "violence is bad".

NinaDreamsCLUB

Who the fuck wss talking about Yahtzee, you spaz

>Waits till her life is completely ruined and unsalvageable to decide against revenge
She's so dumb

on this board if you happen to share an opinion with any eceleb you definitely are just parroting their opinion.
it's projection

The cutscene kills all have good buildup and reasons to play out the way they do, and all of them are either clearly justified for reasons other than Ellie's personal quest (like the slavers), or they were the result of Ellie seeking information and fucking up rather than setting out to murder them (and these all leave her fucked up).
Gameplay kills are a different matter, but this is a near-unavoidable issue for a violent action game that also has a serious story.

Really? My baptism thing is a stretch, but I think "just take him" was pretty clear. It's the last thing she says to Abby and she says it pretty much right after we saw Joel's face.

user's post was almost word-for-word what Yahtzee said in his review:
>Ellie has no character development. Villain lady does a little bit for stupid reasons

Agreed, but it's a pretty accurate portrayal of a female. Especially a woke female. She ruined a fairly stable life in an apocalyptic world, so it's super stupid really.

"X has no character development" is neither an uncommon opinion or a complex sentence, you schizo fuck.

So which gameplay kill is going to motivate the antagonist in the next game?

God imagine the kino if Ellie unstringed the guitar and then restringed it lefty so she could chord with her good hand and strum with her Abby chomped hand. That would have been a much better message than leaving the guitar behind. Ellie laughing when she hits a sour note, knowing she has to relearn her skills, the start of new life n all that.

Attached: images.jpg (225x225, 9.3K)

Lolita is the best book ever written

cut the laughing out and that's actually a really smart change to the ending.

>guitar is booby trapped by WLF
>Ellie loses both of her hands and eyebrows
>learns how to play with her feet
>stumps turn into mushrooms
>learns how to articulate them
>has permanent food source and can play guitar with her hands and feet
>eyebrows never grow back

It could certainly be a coincidence, but "[protagonist] has no character development; [deuteragonist] sort of does for stupid reasons" is specific enough that I recognised it instantly despite having watched that review only once, nearly two years ago. So it seemed likely enough to be a regurgitation from that video that I decided to call it out. If I'm right, user gets shown up. If I'm wrong, no-one will ever know.

I'm cynical about the game industry in general, but TLOU2 was creative and interesting and completely different from what I expected, and I actually do have faith now that 3 will deliver a similarly worthwhile followup.

>She has literally no character development
The whole point of her revenge mission was because of the guilty she felt over hating Joel for years before his death. There's some themes of forgiveness all around there
It's a bit all over the place. It's a story that tries to do and say a lot of things but doesn't really go very far with all of them. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be though. I played it like a year after release knowing the major spoilers and I was expecting a bad time but it was alright. There is definitely more going on than what a lot of people were saying how the game is just a simple revenge bad story.

NAUGHTY DOG, HIRE THIS MAN

>but also deliberately messy and complicated, and relies to some degree on implication, non-verbal acting, cinematography, context, and personal interpretation rather than spelling out exactly what everyone is thinking. I like that. We don't get enough of it in games.
This is why 99% of the people who misrepresented the fuck out of this game failed to get it so hard. Because gamers are dumb as fuck lets be real. It's not a perfect story but I at least respect it for trying to do something different and not catering exactly to what they think the fans would want

>If I'm wrong, no-one will ever know.
Or more likely you'll continue to seethe about an eceleb's opinion from years ago and continue to spin conspiracy theories around anyone who expresses a vaguely similar opinion.

Narratively it makes perfect sense for Ellie to kill Abby and it would change almost nothing else about the ending. Ellie gets what she was after but still lost everything. It would at least be a more profound question to leave at the end to wonder whether it was worth it or not. Rather than her losing everything and not even getting the revenge she was after. It just doesn't make sense at all for Ellie's character to go through all that just to give up and fumble it at the very last second.

>Ellie originally did kill Abby. Someone else showed up at the farmhouse later to complete the "cycle of violence" thing.
Who is ''someone else''? Also that would have been even more retarded. The ending could be completely unchanged from it's current state, just have Ellie actually kill Abby. But having another cross country revenge trip somehow track down Ellie to the middle of nowhere farm house is dumb as fuck

>I'm cynical about the game industry in general, but TLOU2 was creative and interesting and completely different from what I expected, and I actually do have faith now that 3 will deliver a similarly worthwhile followup.
I think the only way I'd be interested in 3 is if Ellie is a Kenshin tier pacifist. Still haven't played 2 tho

Japanese people don't know how to write characters that act like real humans though. Also all the themes of all their stories are straight up spelled out for you. Not saying last of us 2 is a brilliant story but it at least knows how to be subtle and not make everything obvious by having complex characters. Which is why so many gamers completely misinterpreted the whole plot

This is spot-on. Just look at all the midwit responses in this thread. TLOU2 did prove one thing, and that is that gamers in the 2020s are still not evolved past their adolescent lizard brain mentalities, still unable to countenance nuance or emotional complexity, still unable to appreciate, let alone enjoy, a story that doesn't resolve simply and cleanly with one character killing another.
Druck may be a manbunned Californian faggot, but he did make one point very well, and that point is that gamers are still intellectually incapable of stepping beyond the primitive murderhobo instincts that underlie the gameplay of this and nearly every other game in existence.
tl;dr Grow the fuck up and read a book sometime.

Zip it, slut!

>Who is ''someone else''?
I'm don't think they specified in the interview. I think the idea might have been it was a random previously-unknown character affected by events, tracking you down in a similar mission to yours.
I agree it doesn't sound like a good idea and I'm glad they changed it. The ending we got places the emphasis slightly less on the cycle of violence/cost of revenge thing (although it's still prominent) and more on Ellie+Joel, leading into the final flashback better.

The thing that makes me facepalm hard as fuck is the way people completely twisted that ND ''We don't like to use the word fun'' quote about this game. Like no shit the ultraviolent grizzly murder game devs probably don't want to use the word ''fun'' to describe it. Even though the gameplay can be pretty enjoyable. Like it shouldn't be hard to understand what they meant by that. The same way almost nobody plays survival horror games because they're ''fun''.