I would like you to entertain the idea that you might have a giant stick up your ass

>Why do you care in the first place?
Why are you so desperate for people not to make passing observations at obviously curated designs? Is Aloy exempt from criticism? Is there to be no critical thinking of what her design implies in the wider sphere at all? A thing is presented, it has attributes that result in discussion of design and you what? Seek to silence this? To what end?

>every other character basically bows down and kisses her ass while she feels she is tasked to do everything for everyone and be the world's savior.
... So you hate her for being a video game protagonist. Just more evidence that Yea Forums hates video games, I guess.

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I asked you a very simple question, and you are extrapolating outrage from my inquiry. I simply see that every time I come to Yea Forums, people are bitching about her design.

>seek to silence this
More completely unwarranted extrapolations. Take a deep breath son. Instead of assessing my character incorrectly, let's get back to the real question.

Why care in the first place?

go back

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>Are you similarly outraged when male characters get the grizzled redesign?
There is a difference. Said grizzled males often conform to tradition ideas of attractive design. Joel from the last of us is a good looking man conventionally and his weathered and beaten aesthetic is often a design that ENHANCES ideas of masculinity and ideals. This is not as true of women. If you want a "grizzled take" on a woman character you got it bud, she is 2013's Lara Croft, arguably far more grit and physical in appearance than her previous comic book tier design but do you note that this Lara still conforms to traditional ideals of femininity and beauty while doing this?

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For starters this isn't a videogame, it's a kike soap opera. And all the videogames you consume, assuming you consume any at all and you're not just passing the other kike movies as games too, feature terrible stories if those are your standards for protagonism.

>Why care in the first place?
i am free to make passing commentary. Your estimation of how invested i need to be to do so is irrelevant. "Why do you care" is just another way of asking someone to stop talking. It means "you should not be bringing this points up."

That's pretty based my friend. I can see where you're coming from, but I'm still interested with this preoccupation with keeping all video game men masculine and all video game women feminine. Like, the outrage would make sense if AAA companies were giving women literal moustaches and man hips, but the trend towards more grizzled female characters even the most gentle steps in that direction is inciting all this bitching. One* fucking female protagonist has peach fuzz, and now I see her every time I come to Yea Forums. Is it really that big a deal?

>"Why do you care" is just another way of asking someone to stop talking.
You are living in a fantasy world, where merely asking someone to explain their outrage is tantamount to censorship. I asked you twice with genuine, unjudgemental curiosity to explain the phenomenon, and you have elected to instead say that I'm trying to disagree and silence you. I'll give you one more chance to respectfully state why it means something to you. This time, try not to get assmad that one person on the internet has a different point of view. I respect your opinion. Now I want you to explain it.

Why care in the first place?

>gets BTFO
>immediately resorts to buzzword edgelord shit
How old are you?

Old enough to be your father at your current age.

>look how shit everything is lol!
>TRIGGERED MUCH???? WELLL WELL WELL LOOKS LIKE YA ABSOLUTELY SEETHING CHUDS!!! HAHAHA YOURE THE REAL SNOWFLAKES!!!! WHY YOU MALDING BRO??? CANT HANDLE A STRONG WOMAN?

can you just fuck off out my hobbies already?

>but I'm still interested with this preoccupation with keeping all video game men masculine and all video game women feminine.
I have said before i have no outrage when it's a new character made by a new team but i can still see when design choices are made by a very careful hand on purpose, Aloy is a statement unto herself and we should be able to be critical of this. Sometimes you won't get an answer you like when thousands of people plainly see that she barely even matches up to the aesthetics of her own real life counter part face model. I have no problems with Aloys, i take issue when large parts of social media and corporate media start trying to push that all designs ever must be held up to her standard as i have seen.

>where merely asking someone to explain their outrage
you aren't owed an explanation just because you keep asking and you falsely deem written words of criticism as emotive "anger/outrage". I comment on her because i may, that is my full answer.

>aesthetics of her own real life counter part face model
Don't even mention this if it is not a meaningful object in your argument. Most VA's don't look like their video game counterpart, even ones with mocap. Like, they made Michael Townley from GTA V fatter than his actor.

But everything else you said is rather agreeable.

>You're not supposed to masturbate to her.
Then I'm not playing your game.

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So you're in your 50s-60s on Yea Forums bitching about video game protagonists not being hot enough for you to jerk off to.

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Why even introduce yourself into the thread if you cannot explain yourself? I know I'm not "owed" an explanation, I simply asked for one, quite nicely. I'm not sure why you so vehemently want to withhold your explanation, so I'll just assume that you're either trolling me, or you simply don't have the vocabulary to explain why you think the way you do.

Hey, don't get all assmad at me for making assumptions. You're the one over there keeping your explanation under lock and key. Next time, try to engage. Just a little.

You do realize you can have a video game protagonist AND write side characters who actually have some significant importance to the plot rather than a backdrop praising how amazing the player character is and how their so helpless and too stupid to do the most insignificant of tasks.

because they can't and just want to shitpost

I would like you to entertain the idea that I might have a huge dick up your mom's ass

>Most VA's don't look like their video game counterpart
They aren't the literal faces of their video game counterparts though. Models are.

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>So you're in your 50s-60s
Failing miserably at passing is a recurrent issue for your gen, but okay, even 10-20 years from now I'd still be right and you'd still be a dishonest tourist faggot failing to prop up kike propaganda on an anonymous imageboard.

>Why even introduce yourself into the thread
I don't owe you an explanation.

Yep, got it. Unable to explain yourself because you're a dumbfuck. Already figured that one out.

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Broader design trends, OP. She's ugly, fine, I don't want to see her but don't care much. But it's every goddamn western game. Everyone hated skinhead marine back in the day, it was a clear lack of effort in character design with a result both ugly and boring. This shit is people making a deliberate effort to make a character uglier, and for what? The game isn't exactly shooting for gritty realism anyway, so that falls flat. I genuinely struggle to think of recent main character designs that are actually appealing, sexual or not. So every further instance of deciding to make a character uglier, or even just the modern "relatable everyman" design instead of making one as cool or distinct or heroic as possible sucks.

OMG, they made her woke !!! that 3d model on the right looks like TRANNY!! they gave her a literal mustache DXXX When will the Triple Ayy stop destroying my beloved fap fuel? >:O

Oh fuck, you sure did BTFO out of someone that wasn't me, lmao

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>skinhead marine
That is an incredibly apt comparison. Like holy shit, I didn't even think about that, and that shit always bothered the hell out of me. Thanks for letting me see the light. Based.

However, I can get behind making characters look more like an everyman. That is the bread and butter of Western, especially American stories. I must just be largely ignorant to the "uglification" trend among female characters. Can you describe more characters that are a victim of this design decision besides Horizon girl?

not that user, but he's right that all you're really doing is asking for people to stop posting stuff, just in a lame, passive-aggressive way. please don't be so gay

No, OP wants people to justify their criticisms on the basis of how invested in the topic at hand they really ought to be. What sort of question actually is "why do you care?" The criticism itself is already presented: Aloy does not conform to traditional standards of beauty and ideals often depicted in video games in both males and females usually regardless of situation or emphasis on "gritty realism" it comes across as purposeful and by complete design that she does not and MANY people have noticed this and point it out. That said, why does OP bow seek a qualifier on the commentary?
>ok you said the thing but why are you saying it?
Because i can? I notice things and comment on them? Do i need a licence to do this? Am i supposed to be supporting a position held by a group and state i belong to it? What?

Alright, fuck it, I'll respond to obvious bait.

No where did I say you need to stop doing x, y, or z. Like this guy says I'm trying to get people to explain why it matters. Maybe I disagree, but by obfuscating your reasons, you only look more like a juvenile retard.

Ironically, you're better at silencing yourself than I ever was.

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but no one says this about REmake Jill or Voth. There are not entire social media discussion flame wars on the topic of either Julia Voth as a person or REmake Jill as a conventionally attractive video game character. No one is talking about their capacity to masturbate to either.

B is supposed to look hideous and make you disgusted. I highly doubt that was the intent with A.

If I'm gonna be forced to play as a w*man talking to herself for the entire game at least make her attractive

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But you're alright with looking at the back of a buzzcut mcDudeBro's ugly head for 80+ hours?

>I'm trying to get people to explain why it matters
it's a complicated issue that relates back to how people generally like to see idealised hero's as attractive or capable and would like to be able to project those onto an ideal version of what they might aspire to be when engaging with these characters. A lot of people like to see attractive and charismatic people doing interesting or heroic things. To go out of your way to defy this by design is noticeable to all. It begs the question why. So now that i have given some sort of answer why i might notice it and care to say maybe "this seems to be purposefully rejecting status quo and that's weird or unaesthetic to me" on that basis i ask you this: is there some reason it's important to have characters like Aloy that are doing this?

>fuck ABC!
huh? what's wrong with ABC?
>see, you're just trying to silence me
o_o

Only if he is good at talking or shuts the fuck up

Yeah I think it's cool to have a realistic self insert protag for faggots like you

>Why does it make you seethe when women aren't shown to be super-model levels of hot?
because i want good looking women in my escapism. theres plenty of fat ugly men and women in real life i dont need that shit in video games or movies or anything fictional unless theyre evil. evil ugly fat villains is a great story device to promote healthy lifestyles. dont be an evil fat ugly villain

So Aloy is just the equivalent of a buzzcut mcdudebro then? She is supposed to be a sidecut mcstacysister for women to self insert their most truest ideals of womanhood onto?

Yes.

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Videogames are a visual medium. It's also a broadly male hobby. Males are wired to like attractive females, like it or not, it's human nature. The moment you make a female MC and ugly her up deliberately, you are making a deliberate attempt to make her repulsive. If that's the goal of the game, that's fine, but it clearly isn't as Aloy is the hero of her own game that everyone is supposed to like, and she has a lot of cool moves. Meanwhile the goblins in your picture are supposed to be ugly and repulsive, and they're clearly male, so it doesn't have the same effect.

Except i never just said "fuck Aloy" i have pointed out what people find objectionable or jarring about her design from a traditional perspective on idealist beauty standards (whilst also saying i don't actually care if Aloys look like Aloys if they are NEW designs that own their OWN design). The language of "why do you care" after this is not probing, it is dismissal. At this point i really don't owe a grander qualifier than that.

>is there some reason it's important to have characters like Aloy that are doing this?
My problem with your assessment is that it does not really apply to Aloy. She has peach fuzz and looks largely normal for a woman. We can talk about how shittily she is written and how much of a Mary Sue she is portrayed to be. I believe if she was a well-written character, you might not take the time to care about her less-than-feminine traits. But she is written like shit.

I see the trend, and I see its roots in corporate culture, but I just cannot bring myself to care, and I would like to invite you to try doing the same thing.

Maybe there's something to be said about making women more masculine than necessary to appease shareholders, but I am largely ignorant to any other characters who are victim to this design trend besides Aloy and Abby from TLOU 2. Like, those are the worst examples I can think of.

It could potentially save you headaches in the future if the next time you saw a fattish female character, you just shrugged.

That "goblin" is very important to the story. He has a name, and it is Chumbucket. Watch your tongue, profligate.

>and looks largely normal for a woman.
Why?

Yeah, but that almost never happens, so why are you bitching about it here specifically?

>old timer still spewing meaningless buzzwords because they can't fap to a fictional character

Sunken nose bridge, soft cheeks, small chin, large eyes, breasts, thin neck.

My apologies, I don't really play W-games all that often.

>apathy
Why do you care about explaining yourself? Why do you care about this thread? Why care?

Anyone else just find this a weird comparison. I mean a protagonist from a recently released game people criticized for being more manish than her previous model.
Then we got a support companion from a game released years ago that people didn't talk about too much then in both the game and the companion himself.
Even then, both character were painted in different lights, with Aloy being the savior of mankind who must face dangers alone despite people offering to help her because their lives are also on the line and if she dies they're all fucked, but of course she turns them down cause it's too dangerous and only she must walk this dangerous path alone.
Other is a reject hermit who I think was once a slave mechanic for some warlord who offers to help fix up your car cause that's all he's good at.

I'm so sick of discussion of this topic. Just wanted to say that.

Are we gonna ignore how they just made her less attractive compared to the first game even though the events between the games happen in a short time frame

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Because it is fun to discuss, and I enjoy getting other people to engage in the discussion of disagreements.

ugly women shouldn't exist, ugly men are natural

women love ugly women in media because it's a confidence boost to know there is someone uglier than you. men prefer ideal men in media because we want something to look up to and strive for.

>ugly men are natural
Yeah, just look at
(1) your mother
(2) you

ZING! HEYO! *laugh track*

>men prefer ideal men in media because we want something to look up to and strive for.
no we fucking don't, you're just a faggot, go post a gigachad" or whatever you closeted homo
the point is it doesn't matter

Why do you care so much about this dead game, sweetie?

But I also enjoy ugly men in media, desu. Barry Burton is not the supermodel representation of a man but it's based to have a fat character. Trevor and Heihachi are both balding and likeable characters. I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

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Don't you fucking dare lumping Chum with Shrek Rojo!

I'm just saying that the whole >why do you caaaaaare
spiel is usually just used by people who like whatever the current trend is, but don't want to admit it.

>I enjoy getting others to discuss
>”don’t care about her design intentionally being changed to be uglier compared to the first game. I admit that there is a trend and I see it’s roots in corporate culture, but just don’t care about it okay? I don’t care about it so you shouldn’t either trust me.”
This is engaging in a discussion? You being dismissive and having your side of the argument literally amount to “ok you’re right but just don’t care.”?

It would be more accurate to say I'm interested in why everyone else cares so much about this dead game. When I came online, there were at least 3 threads bitching about it. Now I tentatively asked about the outrage.

I'm sorry papi.

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>No where did I say you need to stop doing x, y, or z
Try reading the OP you made.

>It could potentially save you headaches in the future if the next time you saw a fattish female character, you just shrugged.
Years ago everyone said "ignore it bro" and we did and it invited nothing but "modern audience" redesigns for established characters now all rushing to conform to "tone it all down" which mostly i had no issue with, but the old saying is "we aren't going to take away your babes in your games silly gamers" and yet RE4 on VR now needs to remove breast physics, needs to remove the existence of underwear beneath skirts, needs to remove lines as luke warm as "don't you mean lonely?" When referring to Leon's female colleague, basically needs to make sure it's sanitised on my behalf. So no. I do not subscribe to "just ignore it bro" any longer because it's finally in pushed versions of old games.

My problem with coomers is that they have no standards. They may hate Horizon (which is a good thing because the game is grandstanding trash thats everything wrong with modern vidya) but imagine if Aloy was replaced by a sexy japanese waifu. We'd be having regular threads talking about how the game is this amazing masterpiece, and as a gameplay enthusiast who actually cares about the quality of the game itself, it would fill me with no end to my rage to see people jerking off a game because it has waifus.

Take games like Xenoblade, or Dragon Quest. They're both pozzed SJW movie games, but yet they get a pass because ZOMG TITTIES. They're exactly the same as Horizon in every other area, so it's hypocritical for coomers to imply that there's any difference between them. As for someone like me, I despise all bad games, so I refuse to give a game a pass just because there's waifus in it. You can argue all day about how the games are actually deep and interesting, but the hundreds of threads talking about how you want to fuck Jade or Mythra will tell me more than your lies ever will.

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Firstly, I've never even played the fucking games.

That's probably true. Like when people say "It's just a video game". Clearly not. Video games have an affect on people's lives and are a mainstay of young American culture.

Why would I not care that someone actively made the choice to make a character less appealing to me? That's literally what they were going for.

retarded devs might start being greatful players say anything otherwise you wouldnt know why something was or wasnt popular with them. aloys appeearance doesnt bother me, but ill admit id like a 10 girl better, less woke shit, no niggers ect. non are deal breakers as the gameplay is good. but ill be slow to pick up a new series by them.

>When I came online, there were at least 3 threads bitching about it
>quick check on the catalog shows only
So why did you feel the need to make another thread instead of asking it there if you're just "interested in why everyone else cares"?

Many AAA western games seem determined to push the ugliest black woman, usually with a fro, into our faces for some reason.
Wolfenstein springs to mind

Alright, I'm going to come out and say that I'm OP, and the changes they made to RE4 VR pretty much ruined it for me.

In fact, your respectfully pointing that out has actually made me favor your viewpoint far more.

They put MOLES on Ashley's tits? Why? And they removed all of Leon's witty jokes that had even the slightest tone of misogyny.

While I think the outrage over female characters being less attractive and having smaller tits may be a bit misguided, I'm kind of seeing the picture here now.

So AAA game devs have a preoccupation with including ugly black women as support characters. But 99 percent of games still have chiseled white guy protagonists for you to whack it to.

The idea that conventional attractiveness makes fictional women look weak and invalidates them as characters is one of the most terrible (and ironically sexist) notions in recent times

Doesn't mean that everyone has to be a 10/10, but the reverse case where it's not okay to be a 10/10 anymore is equally shit.

>Take games like Xenoblade, or Dragon Quest. They're both pozzed SJW movie games
You don't play video games

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kinda based ngl

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TL;DR

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When have "Babes" ever really saved an actual bad game or bad game mechanics from criticism though? The Senran Kagura series is all about giant anime tits and tearing off clothes to reveal as much skin as possible and everyone knows the series is trash garbage Musou mechanically speaking. Dead Or Alive has the heaviest emphasis on sexual objectification of ANY fighting game and about 6 people watched the last DOA tournament because bikini outfits and large breasts were not enough to get people invested in it's actual core mechanics in the way they are about Street Fighter, Tekken or something more Niche like Guilty Gear. I would say it's the opposite and that people often try to use the inclusion of coomer elements to dismiss actual good games. We can't talk about Nier Automata properly because the girl android happens to have a nice, attractive and pleasing to look at Ass. If you ever want to dismiss that entire video game you can just say "only coomers like it" and everyone just starts nodding their head in agreement.

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Let me give you an example via this webm.

>game presents you a choice, yes or no
>choose the wrong choice
>STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMYN threatens to kill you unless you choose the "correct" option, thereby making the choice pointless
>there's no option to take her by the hair and smash her against the pavement for thinking she has any say in my video game

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I think it has less to do with her design and more to do with the intent. There's this trend of making female characters strong women....and that's it. She's strong and stoic because big, out of touch corporation #3576 thinks political correctness sells. If these characters had strong characterization beyond "I don't need no man", you would see fewer complaints. It's a similar situation with the Star Wars sequel trilogy or Ghostbusters 2016. People were mad that the characters and writing sucked and it didn't feel genuine.

1. your image is so poorly made I can only assume it's a bait image
2. protagonists are vastly different than NPCs. you should really be comparing Aloy to a popular male vidya protagonist who is not conventionally attractive (good luck with that).
if you make a new image that addresses both of my concerns, I might come back and address the rest of your shitty argument.