Controversial opinion: Eternal>2016

>unskippable cutscenes
>generic sci-fi base amd bland as fuck hell
>better
rope, use it

triple barrel shotgun alt is underrated, it tears through shit and feels very satisfying to use as well

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Wow, isn't that the badass LE DOOM SLAYA!?!? This is so epic and metal XD! le based dev god Hugo and his butt buddy le Marty want to EXPAND THE DOOM POWA FANTASY, uh, yayah!!! Shut up and take my money lmao :P THE DOOM SLAYA NOW HAS EXPOSED BICEPS OMGG!!!!!, I'm getting really horny!!!! Oh wow all wads are canon... wowow omg that means NUTS.WAD IS CANON OMG SO WACKY AND CUHHHRAZEH OMG DOOM SLAYA FIGHTING FOR AEONS OF TIME UHHHH MMMMM YESSSS THE ANCIENT DEMONS SAVED HIM UHHHH FEELS SO GOOD MMMM LORE EXPOSITION IM FEELIN REAL NICE!!!! MY PENIS HAS BEEN MEGASPHERED UHHHH *looks down at his shrivelled member and grabs it with a swipe from the side like an edgy DOOM SLAYUH cutscene* WOW, WHAT'S THIS?? HE STAYED IN HELL TO FIGHT THE DEMONS LIKE IN DOOM 64?!?!?! HOW BASED CAN ID GET?!! *starts stroking and making epic revenant AHHH meme noises* I-IS THAT A FLOATING QUESITON MARK AND EXTRA LIFE IN MY DOOM GAME, UH YYYYYYYESSSS!!!! *hand turns into a fucking mach 5 piston with iron man colors and a snoo decal* AHHHHHHH OH MY GOD HE IS AN ANCIENT WARRIOR AND LE ANCIENT CIVILIATION ALIENS LE ALIEN QUEEN AND VEGA ROAD TRIP THROUGH SPACE AAAHAAAHAHA IM COOOOOOMING AND CONSOOOOOMING REDDIT-TIER LOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!!!!11111 *wipes cum on doomguy amiibo and strokes 3d printed crucible he made from an r/doom tutorial while waiting out his refractory period by dressing up as doomgirl and posting it for karma then getting hard again because he read an epic marty strapon tweet about how mick gordon is farting into a mic for the third time to score the epic kar en kukold dlc*

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metadoom is meh

Does anyone remember a fanart piece of Doomguy where he was looking angry and it's a close up to his face like a portrait?
I think the background or reflective light on his face was either blue or green, but it was one of those helmetless portraits from like 2010 or somewhere around that.
It was probably from DeviantArt.

2016 borrowed its atmosphere from Doom 3 because that's when Doom was all about Mars bases and orange Hell
Real Doomers remember when Doom's atmospheric identity was defined by blue carpeted floors, Chinese landscapes on Phobos, Adrian Carmack's knee wound and FIREBLU

and that's final innit?

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Why is Kadingir so high, out of D2016 maps? Worse layout than Foundry, worse fights than VEGA.

Why is Argent Facility (Destroyed) so low? It's basically a retreat of AF, but it's still a non-linear level, now with tougher fights.

it can also depend if there's new ideas that work but doom always had experimentation going on, even if people bitch about certain enemies or platforming
at least you get stuff to talk about and some features people like

2016 was following similar trends as other devs, hence the chitinization and shell looks.
The true edgiest Doom was 3 for its horror or surreal designs, even if some redesigns deviated from the classic looks but at least it sold the idea of how weird Hell is.
2016's universal chitin suited well with the lore explaining how demons worked and UAC studying them, even if that sacrifices a certain level of mystery and abstraction.
Eternal's cartoony nature was partially because of how people complained about 2016's colors.

I love the flow of Kadingir. Maybe I need to replay Argent Facility (Destroyed) but the fact that it is a retread makes it kind of less interesting by default
Foundry is cool on paper, the fact that its the only non-linear level is great but the fighting arenas are mediocre sadly, I'd honestly have placed it lower if it wasn't for the fact that I wanna commend it on being non-linear. I have way more fun playing pretty much every level in the B-tier than I do Foundry.

2016 suffers a lot from a slow start, the only heavy demons you meet in Foundry are hell knights and they're introduced there, by contrast in Cultist Base you fight HKs, Cacos, Sneks, Arachnos, Mancubi, Revenants and a bunch of different fodder types. And if you did Exultia Slayer Gate, you've also met Lego Knights.

Sentinel Prime has based Gladiator, your list is shit.

yeah if they were a little more confident in their own gameplay back then they would have tested their players skill more with 2016 but its a real slow ramp up. It'd be fun to play the Doom 2016 levels with a wider variety of enemies, like not quite as chaotic as the master levels in Eternal, but something that matches the base game of Eternal.
But then again 2016 also has the problem of having gore nests which kind of suck
2016 is a great game no doubt, but there's a lot of things that holds it back, especially after you've played Eternal.
well a fun boss doesn't make a straight corridor lore dump level good, user. I agree that the boss is fun though

Well they also didn't really have the enemy variety, so they had to drip-feed you new enemies to you, and they still run out almost halfway through. Barons get introduced in Kadingir, half-way through the game, and the only new heavy after them is Cybermancubus, which is just a better Mancubus,

2016 is fucking unplayable after Eternal solely for the trash beginning and mediocre enemy variety. Hell Guards should have been a common enemy introduces after the Barons, instead of a boss, that alone would have made the game better.

I like Hell Guards as bosses, each had its own thing. They should've resurrected more OG demons like they did with DE, but I guess they didn't have time, the project was a mess after Call of Doom cancellation. I'm just glad they turned it up to 11 with Eternal, just straight up decided "we have their attention now, we can do crazy shit and get away with it". Glad they didn't just release Doom 2016.5: now with more monsters and more brown.

>They should've resurrected more OG demons like they did with DE
Such as...?

You didn't beat it.

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I wanted to say "arch-vile", but then I realized they did have summoners. Summoners are cool, but a bit too easy to kill. So I guess only arachnotrons are left, as Hell Razers are basically chaingunners in disguise. Another thing they could've done is making Revenants not completely useless. Even in DE they're nerfed to the ground, they feel like a waste of a cool heavy demon most of the time, not a threat in a way most of those demons are.

>Hell Razers are basically chaingunners in disguis
more like miniature versions of the shamblers from quake
modern doom's structure is not the same as doom and that's why most enemies from 1/2 are in name only
same reason infighting wouldn't work
classic doom enemies had more basic ai and could be simply spread around in a large map, hence their attacks aren't out of place
classic doom enemies behave as if they're like props attached to the maps

I'm not advocating for 1:1 translation, obviously. Just inspiration. They did rework them a lot, and in good ways, especially in Eternal when they knew their game well. I was initially skeptical about stuff like making HKs melee only, but it works pretty well, how they constantly pressure you etc.
>infighting
What's really weird is that DE does have non-scripted infighting, but, like scripted infighting, it's damage-less. The most prone demons are Tyrants, sometimes a spammy fodder like mecha-zombie hits them and then they'll ignore you and start clobbering said zombie.

bump

Anybody else feel too retarded to keep up with the weapon switching? I want to use a wider variety of weapons and I try to force myself to do it, but at the same time it's hard in the heat of the moment for my dumb brain to focus more on using more than 2 buttons for weapon swapping.

My attempt at a work around has been to bind mouse 4 to super shotty, mouse 5 to the ballista, mouse 3 to the assault cannon, scroll down shotgun, scroll up plasma. There's just no way I'd ever use anything if I had it all binded to the number keys

Controversial opinion: Cities Skylines is a braindead game with zero strategic thinking and that is closer to a decoration toy than to a city simulator.

I'm too brainlet for kb/m so I just use the gamepad with the weapon wheel, is that or nothing.

I play PC FPS for over 20 years (casually) and DE was the first game that made me seriously rethink weapon binds. Then I did it in some other arcade FPS (like Serious Sam) and that improved my experience significantly.

That's only controversial to people who never actually played 2016, or people who play on console.

Early game sucks in both. I'd rather play the DLCs and master levels on UN because they're not a slog for 3 hours.

more like 5 hours. only reason why I'm not doing campaign UN. imagine dying at the end and losing 5 hours of progress.

I mean just the boring parts at the beginning, when you're scrambling to get all of the upgrades. Anything pre-SSG in both games sucks.

Hit piece? Did Doomguy get #metoo'd?

>based Gladiator

yeah, him and his 3-frame instakill melee attack

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switching weapons is way less important later on when you actually have ammo in some reasonable quantity

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I will always be disappointed that so few enemies drop ammo. It would have been the perfect reward for breaking weak spots.

I've played through Doom 2016 3 times and Doom Eternal 4 times, some maps more than 6 times and I still haven't even bought either game.
feels kind of scummy

Eternal is probably the best shooter released in the past 15 years

That isnt even a controversial opinion

How is this controversial

Second half of Exultia is a lot better than the first, enough to elevate it up at least one tier in my mind.
Cultist Base and ARC Complex should be in A tier. At the very least their Master Level versions.
VEGA Central Processing should be a little higher maybe. Thats right around when Doom 2016's combat starts getting good.
It doesn't look like the DLC is on here but I'd definitely put the two levels from DLC 1 in B tier at the lowest.

not controversial in the slightest
>doom
>story
LOL

Every enemy drops ammo if you use the chainsaw

eternal has a ton of story

Yeah, but I don't like using the chainsaw.

yeah and it's fucking shit like in 2016

I haven't played the DLC sadly, that's why it's not on there. Next playthrough I'll have to finally get to that

You're right about Cultist Base and probably ARC Complex too, I'm just a little split on it, I don't love the office setting, I like the setup of that episode, going to get Hayden but it is visually one of the least appealing levels.
and I agree with you on Exultia, 2nd half is better but its still kind of meh to me.

Eternal = 2016

thats why having more of it was a bad idea

It takes a second my man just saw a zombie and move on with your life. Its like the ammo is always coming to you.

DooM >= Doom 2 > D64 > Doom RPG1-2 > Doom3:RoE > Doom 3 > > > 2016 = Fecesnal

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I want them to remake the original two games with none if the new crap just the upgraded graphics

this except 3 at the very bottom

And it's lame, just pressing one button for something that infinitely recharges.
The chainsaw is really poorly-designed in both of the reboots.

I concede that ARC Complex isn't super interesting visually, I like the whole technoindustrial corridor thing but other levels like Gore Nest did it better and too much of it looks like FEAR offices. I'm also probably biased because the Master Level has a lot of great arena fights and its the introduction to the Marauder which is a pretty memorable moment in the game as a whole.

Perfection

>world of warcraft themed call of duty is better than world of warcraft themed call of duty

there's more unskippable shit in 2016 than eternal

>it can also depend if there's new ideas
>AAA games
>new id
>date] [Auto]
as

lol no.

people really pretending doom 3 is good now?

The chainsaw has never been particularly well designed in any of the Doom games, even in 3 where it was OP. I personally prefer it being a unique execution method /get out of jail card than just a janky melee weapon that I probably won't use, and tying ammo restoration too it made it feel more like an actual part of your arsenal rather than something you just sat on like in Doom 2016.

>more streamlined
>game locks you thrice in a tiny room while robo dude dumps exposition on you
Lmao

both of our comments are true

It worked mostly fine in the classic games, when there wasn't a berserk pack around. Really good for stunlocking monsters and saving ammo.
The problem I have with it turning enemies into ammo pinatas is that it greatly decentivizes pickups almost entirely. There's never a reason to pick up a box of shells when you have an ever-recharging instakill button for small enemies that will give you a comparable amount of ammo. But id has fallen into a trap where the chainsaw is such an iconic part of the series that they can't remove it.
Really, I'm just salty that we got some enemies that drop ammo, but they're almost entirely relegated to the very end of their respective level sets.

This. 2016 had good atmosphere and design. Eternal still looks good, but they went in on a more arcadey style that plays differently. I don't *hate* it, but I wish they would have either gone that way from the beginning or never did it at all.

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I did
Early game is hell. Starting from Doom Hunter Base to Urdak game is easy, except occasional dying to Gladiator. Final Sin is fun

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