Nice dungeon design ffxiv fags

I think so but don't quote me on it. Tomestone payout from the two in MSQ roulette is roughly the same as it was before and it should still be a heavy hitter for EXP

Look how they massacred my boy.
I'm unironically seething at FFXIV disappointing development.

Literally no one wants to go through a maze with randoms. Stop glorifying objectively unfun things.

This is one thing I can't understand about modern MMOs (or games in general).

Last night I did CoP 8-4 in FFXI and it is amazing. Hu'Xhoi and Ru'Hmet zones have gigantic mazes for maps and you end up doing a very convoluted escort and teleport maze to get to the final boss. It is memorable and fun despite being "hard" or "confusing". FFXI in general is full of stuff like this and tons of areas are unique and challenging. Altepa Gate, Eldieme Avatar Doors, Garlaige Banishing Gates, Sea Serpent Grotto hidden entrances, etc.

They REALLY don't want to present real barriers to players at all these days and as a result content is forgettable and samey.

I'd say its more for veteran players. Absolutely under no circumstance do I want to fucking run old Toto-rak for the 50th time while leveling a job. ESPECIALLY when we have a sprout tank that goes through every room.
More complex boss mechanics and enemy mechanics are more interesting than maze dungeons.

Unironically yes.

It is attitude like this that makes MMOs boring and samey.

If there's a possibility I'll be running it every day for one reason or another, I do not want a goddamned maze, it's that simple.

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Good. In these horseshit games where you’re forced to farm dungeons as a daily for gay tokens, the dungeons better be short. I’d actually prefer they skip the trash pulls and just have boss rooms. No one gives a fuck about fighting trash at end game, good tanks pull every mob group to kill them all at once in AOE anyways. Obviously the player base doesn’t give a shit about clearing trash the 1000th time they’ve done the dungeon

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It's the same as WoW, just less filler area. How many M+s do you run and veer off course?

This is the sole reason I do not play MMOs anymore, they are not designed to challenge you in anyway until you press "I WANT TO DO THIS AS A HARD MODE"
But the problem is, I don't want to do X content while leveling up and gearing up, only to keep doing it as a harder version. I've already done it the first time around.

They need to start making the games challenging again but that will never happend because people are so shit at video games

If you didn’t want this kind of MMO then don’t play themepark dungeon grinding MMOs. You’d be playing EVE online or some sandbox MMO if you wanted content to be based on unique emergent player interactions.

Exactly, even big open dungeons are going to get routed to be linear.

WHAT THE FUCK YOSHI?!

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Literally why I went back to FFXI last year. Sure, they have streamlined a lot of things over the years but most of the challenge remains and you still have to put in time to accomplish things. You feel like you are making real, tangible progress.

Hopefully they have something cool fir the 20th anniversary next month.

The magic of adventurer plate images just being a PNG uploaded, so mods show up. You basically need to play vanilla or else don't modify your adventurer plate from its vanilla screenshot

XI is also full of borderline esoteric mechanics and quests that are amazingly misleading. I remember one of the Dragoon artifact quests effectively being along the lines of
>Talk to a Merchant
>Trade him a Gold Hairpin to get to the next part
>Piece of Dragoon armor got stolen
>Speak to this lady who you're given no info about in a different area of San d'Oria
>She says it was some other woman who stole it but she dropped an earring
>Travel all the way to Bastok and get told that the woman in questiom is back in San d'Oria
>The woman is actually outside the city in a remote tower in Ronfaire
>She says she doesn't have the armor and that it was buried on an island in Batallia Downs
>Had to run through Eldieme to get to the island, including past several level 70+ mobs
>Had to then fight a basic NM before digging up the armor
>Finally, go back to the merchant to get your reward
>This is for a single piece of level 52 armor that enhances a niche ability and gives your Wyvern 10% more HP

Serves you right, dumb coombrain.

>character's expression not in frame

yeah but that ass tho

>borderline esoteric mechanics
Borderline? I don't even need to qualify statements like "Absolute Virtue" or "Pandemonium Warden" because they're so infamous.

>Finished MSQ already
Please *cough* some content... *cough*

and that was best in slot Healing Breath HP+ boost for literally over a decade until it's ilvl version came out

nope.. they sure don't make items like they used to...

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pvp my ninja

The shape doesn't matter, they are all easy as fuck, 80% of the time peoples rush to the boss.

I have no fucking clue how pvp works. I just ran around frontline pressing buttons at people.

Two questions
What happened to Castrum? And are all the cutscenes still the same complete with playing mid-dungeon?

can't you just play unmodded, take the picture and turn the mods back on?

I more meant in a generally broad sense. Like Skillchains. I still don't know how exactly they work. I just know that sometimes they do.
I'm on the cusp of playing Paladin and I really don't want to do this quest that involves fishing. The Gobbie box gave me stuff I can sell for a pretty penny to get the bait but still. How important is Pld's first Artifact set?

they really are pretty bad but thats not so bad when youre just spamming them to level up

This. Even at ilvl, gear is fucking GOOD in FFXI. Tons of low level gear still gets used or upgraded.

AF quests fir original jobs were designed to be done as a group at level cap. The Zilart jobs (aka Dragoon) all skew towards doing them at 75 which was the new cap.

I hate hallway dungeons so fucking much. What happened to shit like BRD and The Temple of Atal'Hakkar where you actually had some degree of decision of where you wanted to lead your party and which bosses you wanted to do? I think the whole "meta" mindset of just spam a dungeon and finish it as fast as possible so people really only took the shortest route every time really hurt game design as a whole.

new pvp mode literally just dropped, consider it like payload matches in TF2

the dwarf pugil fishing thing is intended for zero skill, You won't have a problem. pld AF is alright at 75 cap with feet being truly useful. For ilvl more of it is good.

>What happened to (COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME)
user.

You will eventually upgrade it to ilvl but it can wait. If you are still under 119 then don't even sweat it, Ambuscade (do Normal with trusts, right now its Beast Menagerie and its fucking EASY) or do Delve / Reisenjima NMs. All three of those give stupid powerful gear for now. The AF / Relic upgrades are important but get quite expensive.

FF14 took heavy inspiration from WoW and you can tell the early ARR dungeons were more "open" or at least try more than the blatant 1 hallway 3 bosses per dungeon bullshit they start pulling on you since Heavensward. It gets even worse as you progress through the expansions to the point where every single dungeon is that. One hallway and three bosses with two "trash" packs between bosses. It's so fucking cookie cutter and sterile.

It is also always available with login points, as are all other "annoying" AF quest items.

what's the deal with the 5 heads? can't figure it out and can't clear this shit

Those early dungeons were lifted pretty much straight from 1.X is why.

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>Too shitty to survive the gauntlet
>Wants shortcuts

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all the shit from nero - gaius still takes 15 minutes

How long would your average modern MMO player survive in a dungeon like this? Be honest.

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Only 5 of them.
Sastasha, Toto-rak, Aurum Vale and Dzemael Darkhoke, and Cutter’s Cry.
And even then they were pared down.

Is that REALLY the new Toto-rak?!

I'm still like level 55. I think my highest is DRG at around 65? I have a rral issue picking a job I want to stay with, both DRG and SAM are above 60, PLD is at 55, DRK and WAR are both in the mid/late 40s, and I've even gotten White Mage, Black Mage, and Summoner up to around 30.
Also is Ranger bad? The wiki site I use literally doesn't have a Job Guide for it.

My point is I really wish MMO developers made more dynamic, open dungeons which gave players choice. The community has just ruined everything and everyone always wants to take the path of least resistance in order to finish the dungeon as fast as possible and that has really hurt the entire genre as a whole.

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They'd survive just fine but the whole time would be spent complaining about all the dead ends. And they'd be right if it's a daily

>consider it like payload matches in TF2

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Yes, this is not a shop.

And those are the ones that are the worst in the game

>There are people defending totorak
Literally no excuse now.
Kill yourself, you are a waste of life.

Just go play ER.

Unironically yes, they were slogs that everybody just sprinted to the end for even in 1.X and the big difference between then and now is mobs don't de-aggro if you run far enough away from them

is this good level design?

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I'm pretty sure this isn't true. It's exactly like how the lodestone displays your character

>portaits are literally png screenshots of your characters
>if you are a retard and have mods in the pic you are getting the ban

Lel

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Don't even worry about gear before 99. All jobs are good in FFXI, it is down to preference.

That being said if you want to go as a ranged attacker you should go Corsair, trust me on this one. Ranger does INSANE damage but has almost no utility. Corsair does slightly less damage but has insane buffs.

Man, leveling up in this game sucks. Things are slowing down now that I'm past 30 but I'm still just getting an endless amount of MSQs that are nothing but "teleport to this location and talk to NPC".

This image was the best thing about Classic.
Going in for specific bosses, maybe arena spam or doing full clears with or without lava skip, no one having the key, or with the key and able to skip stuff.
What a phenomenal place.

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That's how the main quest always is. And it's not until Heavensward that it gets good.

If that's how it always is then it never gets good.

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>be sprout tank in Heavensward
>low level dungeon mobs are still strong cause no stat creep
>explore every optional room in the ARR dungeons
>DPS cucks are forced to tag along cause they'll eat shit if they try to pull ahead
Miss it.

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I haven't even unlocked Aht Urugan yet. This game is god damn big.

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Hallways aren't interesting dungeon design. Even Zelda, a game for toddlers, has more interesting dungeons than FFXIV.

I still remember Lower Blackrock Spire where you had to create a key off of items specific bosses dropped (not 100% chance btw) in order to be able to access Upper Blackrock Spire. I don't think there were even maps available for these dungeons back then. This shit, Blackrock Depths, Molten Core and Onyxia were peak World of Warcraft dungeon/quest and attunement design.

MSQ dungeons are meant to be easy and play by themselves.
Although you're right, would be nice to have some actual hard dungeons with more interesting level design that would require more coordination and skill than just speedrunning.

What MMOs can I play that have this but don't default to garbage PvP like EVE and BDO
Mabinogi looked comfy back in the day but I never got into it

anyone?

branching mazes aren't necessarily interesting either, most often they're just tedious and only fun the once, which is not good for an MMO you could feasibly be playing every day

more complicated =/= more good

No content is going to be fun if you run it every fucking day.

>branching mazes aren't necessarily interesting either
True, FFXIV's old dungeon design was fucking awful too, despite having branching paths. But making them all braindead hallways isn't an actual solution.

Don’t believe the shills, the games MSQ never becomes enjoyable. The shills just pretend it gets better because characters start dying and the story becomes more dramatic. If you don’t care about MMO stories, then the MSQ doesn’t change, it’s still the same endless fetch quests, mob kill quests, and “teleport across the map to talk to X” quests. Just the same shitty MMO quest design x 1000

there's like no CC in this game but i guess they could atleast make trash more interesting with mini game mechanics instead of only having bosses be a slight challenge

GW2 had huge dungeons with mutiple branching paths. Guess what happens when you enter one. That's right. Everyone went the easiest, most efficient way possible while the other paths were all dead in the water. If you needed to take another path for a quest? Good fucking luck ever getting it done. It's a different time. That kind of shit doesn't work anymore even though I also wish it did.

RNG can’t even flex its muscles with the community’s obsession with low manning meaning you’ll fucking die if you try to push anywhere close to your maximum output anyway.

actiblizzard employee shoo

the need that 90 degree corners to unload invisible parts of the dungeon from memory

He's right, though. It's actually even worse in FFXIV, because you rarely even get to play your character during the MSQ. There's a 10 minute dungeon or trial in between literal hours of running in straight lines between NPCs and watching movies.

Yeah well if I’m being forced to run the dungeon everyday for daily currency grinding, I don’t wanna waste even 30 minutes grinding the same trash mobs everyday. That even more unfun.

Considering the type of themepark mmo this is, it’s the only solution that won’t make you immediately quit the game as you realize you have to do the dungeons 50+ times in order to purchase the meta pre raid BIS gear.

RuneScape is the only sandbox MMO I know of that isn’t heavily PVP focused that you can play without interacting with PvP much.

i am not going to pretend for even a single fucking second that i would rather grind bear asses than read quest dialogue

Group's RNG saves our ass constantly for Gaol NMs by simply deleting their HP before they get dangerous. Sit pretty for the first 40%-50% of HP then just go hard.

You gotta do every side quest as it becomes available if you want to actually enjoy the gameplay.

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I can't comment for the Horde side of things, but the Onyxia unlock for the Alliance is the most kino thing in WoW's history.

If you weren’t a shit taste retard you wouldn’t be playing either game at all or any shitty themepark mmo. Instead you ARE a shit taste retard which is why you defend endless fetch quests/dialogue and pretend that’s the only/better alternative to endless bear killing quests.

"you barely play!" -> "i'm not grinding enough in combat" -> "MOAR BEAR ASSES"
go play maplestory

I'm playing the free trial for the first time right now and I'd MUCH rather be getting an endless amount of "Collect X bear asses" quests than having to go through these MSQs because at least grinding bears means I get to PLAY the fucking VIDEO GAME. These MSQs are literally just having me teleport from NPC to NPC 99% of the time and maybe once every 10 or so quests I get to run to the other end of the zone to fight a SINGLE trash mob. And to make it worse the xp payout is so huge that I've overleveled the MSQs already even though I'm only level 32, so now in the rare instance I do get to fight something I'm synced to a lower level and don't get to use any of the abilities I've unlocked recently so I'm still stuck pressing the same 3 fucking buttons I've had since level 5. This shit is AWFUL.

If you don't like the msq just quit now. The whole fucking game revolves around it retard.