Deus ex thread

They're clearly economic leftists if they want corporations to pay more taxes and have less control (at least by the standards of left and right when the game was made). They don't strike me as Armstrong-style darwinist libertarians, and they sure as fuck aren't in Ayn Rand's bootlicking cult.

this. the NSF are just a bunch of lolberts and maybe some schizos (as in, /pol/ schizos)

i don't see how they're left or right winged. when i first played the game i thought they were just... well, ultranationalist terrorists (minus the ethnostate part). maybe this is an american thing and i don't get it because i'm not one, but it did captivate me and keep me engaged with the story.

please stop using deus ex as an excuse to talk about politics on Yea Forums.

Nothing he says has anything to do with left wing social justice faggotry. You have to completely retarded to live in this day and age and still think big corporations don't need their power drastically reduced.

Thats racist and hateful incel propaganda!

>big corporations lose power
>big government gains power
>average person gains nothing

someone is always going to be in power and little people are always going to be abused by those in power

dude, deus ex is an inherently political game, filled with conspiracy theories and social commentary. but unlike modern games, it's affiliation (assuming it even has any) is left intentionally vague and non-partisan, which allows for player interpretation. it's what helps keep discussion of this game alive for almost 22 years. if you don't like it, then go back to your console warring garbage threads. we don't want you here

They're a secessionist group that formed after a gun control bill was adopted. That screams right wing.

Consolidation of power is an inevitability, unfortunately. The only way to get around it would be mass murder of the oligarchy and the layman isn't in a bad enough position to do so.

The real problem is going to come when killbots can unironically be made, right now you still have to pay humans to be in an army, when machines can act as infantry we will see a true nightmare.

>They're clearly economic leftists if they want corporations to pay more taxes and have less control
they don't want taxes to exist. they're literally talking about taxation being theft. watch this and tell me they're not ancaps, bro.

youtube.com/watch?v=aMQ2E-psXe8

he keeps talking about how "the individual can protect themselves." it's the exact same thing as "everyone will be free to fight their own war, not for oil, but for themselves" etc etc from armstrong. it's a little more nuanced than labelling nsf straight up just all ancaps, because just like a real group, they're composed of a lot of people with different views of what their goals are, but you can't call them a leftist group when their members are talking about BIG GUBMINT CAN'T TAKE MUH GUNS AWAY THIS IS THE LAND OF THE FREE BROTHER.

again, labelling them "leftists" just because they have a basic grasp of neoliberal capitalism being shit just means you're rejecting the factual premises the argument is being had about.

I wish more people talked about the fucking gameplay of Deus Ex instead of these middle school-tier political debates.

Despite it being a typically right wing issue, I think many people in the Deus Ex universe say this as a heavy handed over reach of the government that was increasingly demonstrating tyrannical power. NSF is a big tent organization.

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>A BOMB

>big corporations lose power
>big government gains power
That's wrong. They are two heads of the same monster, weakening one naturally weakens the other. If we were to hypothetically replace the corporations with a more intrusive and controlling government, more like how China operates, that would be a lateral move, yes.

>claim this is a leftist game
Nobody ever said this. Why do people come to this board to argue with their imaginary friends?

Okay. If I fucking shoot a soldier with a tranq dart he gets to run around like a retard for ten years before passing out, but if I shoot the dart into the ground next to him he instantly turns to face it for a very long time and allows an easy melee takedown. I find this stupid.

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That guy tongues my anus, for obvious reasons seen in the picture.

>They're a secessionist group that formed after a gun control bill was adopted. That screams right wing.
They do seem socially right, economically left. Adam Smith-style left-libertatians, maybe.

>gameplay
It's shit. Nobody ever plays this game because of the gameplay. You may now kill yourself.

it's been over 20 years, what is there left to discuss in terms of gameplay

Have you guys ever played the game with a combat skill just set to advanced? Like you just dump all your points into Pistols or Rifles at the start of the game.

It's amazing how different the game feels. Feels just like a normal FPS.

The gears have always been bigger. Thats how they work.

just play GMDX

you'd probably want to read a lot of history, especially events surrounding wars and collapsed nations and economy crashes, and also read about real conspiracies that have happened.

but what deus ex does a lot is just pose an ethical question like that scene with morpheus, "how much surveillance is too much" or whatever, and then get two characters to each take a side of the debate and explore the question. it doesn't have to conclusively answer the question one way or another, but it's the discourse itself and seeing the different points of view that's interesting.

just like the final choice: would it be better to regress technologically but have no surveillance at all? would it be better to enforce a perfect, all-knowing justice system at the cost of all personal privacy? the game doesn't try to beat you over the head with one of them being the right choice, if there is such a thing.

>They are two heads of the same monster
shhhhhhhhhhh user you can't say this to americans. they've been taught from birth to think government and corporations are opposed to one another. libs are taught to think the government is the good guy, cons are taught to think the corps are the good guy. you can't suggest to them that maybe these two things are the same, that'll break their brains. they have to interpret it like a marvel movie or they'll fry their processors.

if the most important part of your game is the writing, why would you ever consider outsourcing it?
make the game fun first, then add the story and characters you want

>it's so far beyond my control

only if you care about your wellbeing.

HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP HUP

truth is, deus ex is neither left or right wing, warren spector said it himself in his GDC talk. it's supposed to let the player decide for himself who's right or wrong (but is forced to cooperate with the NSF due to the original scope of the game being cut down due to the limitations of it's time)

one more thing to note about his talk:
warren spector said himself that "gaming has yet to see it's citizen kane". because "the medium is too young"
youtube.com/watch?v=tffX3VljTtI

it's a fascinating watch, and i highly reccomend all of you to watch it

Let's say I don't then and tell me what can effectively be done.

What a shame

vtmb is better because in that one i can actually join a group of anarcho communists (this is based) instead of having to shack up with ancaps just because they're the closest thing to an anti-authoritarian group the game gives me

A big part of art and the growth of a medium is the death of the author and recognizing the final say of something is not dictated by who created it
Is Deus Ex a left wing game? You could certainly make the case for it and it is as valid as an argument as it is to say its a right-wing game

>tell me what can effectively be done.

its not like people in power aren't people. you can harm them the same way you can harm anyone.

>tell me what can effectively be done

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Yeah, his recognition that corporations control the government, that corporations and the wealthy are inherently enemies of freedom marks him as an economic leftist, though that's not to say he has anything in common with the hyper-authoritarian modern liberals. Like I said before, if they're libertarians they're a lot more Adam Smith than Any Rand.
>they have a basic grasp of neoliberal capitalism being shit
That's enough to prove they aren't right libertarians.

But can I harm enough of them that they can't simply be replaced?

Death of the author is a worthless idea only invoked by arrogant retards who was to pretend their headcanon is valid. It's not.

Only actual arrogant retards would dismiss death of the author. It's not hard to come up with your own conclusion to a piece of art, you don't need the creator to spoon feed it to you

>its not like people in power aren't people. you can harm them the same way you can harm anyone.
Sure, but they're a lot less accessible than most people, and you 100% will be killed or imprisoned for life for trying, whether or not you succeed in taking one of the oligarchs down with you.

>Yeah, his recognition that corporations control the government, that corporations and the wealthy are inherently enemies of freedom marks him as an economic leftist
bro every single two-bit libertarian-leaning rightoid in america considers themselves "anti-corporate" and places the blame on "croney capitalism" and "corporatism."
>>they have a basic grasp of neoliberal capitalism being shit
>That's enough to prove they aren't right libertarians.
no, it's enough to prove they read some statistical facts on the internet. it doesn't mean they escaped the right wing capitalist framework or that their solution wouldn't just reproduce corporatism. that's kind of the whole thing about libertarians bro, like i said, they get what the problems are but their solutions just reproduce those problems. a lot of them, including the nsf, are just advocating a return to proto-capitalist feudalism. not exactly a leftist value.

you might as well argue that knowing 2+2=4 is a leftist value. like yeah, it's true, and if you followed it to its conclusion, that conclusion is a leftist solution. but lots of people spend their lives thinking 2+2=5, and when they learn it's actually 4, they don't actually change their worldview. they just pretend like 2+2=4 is coherent with the beliefs they already hold somehow.

>WAhhh what do you MEAN effort and risk is involved with changing the world? why can't i do it by posting funny memes and saying nigger?

You will do nothing, faggot.

You know manga has a point, it's better to have a wall of text with a single simple but decent expression if you can't draw expressions for shit than this fucking disaster

Authors often change their minds about the meaning of their work. It's really common to see them do it years after, but sometimes they do so while writing it. Some works have multiple authors who don't always agree. The most coherent approach is to let the work speak for itself, which is what death of the author is really about.

I didn't say that it was the wrong choice.

The problem is that Deus Ex ended up being right about so many things that unless you make a game that has "outlandish" theories that turn out to be true after several years, you can't really compete with Deus Ex. At best you can write a game that deals with modern and topical stuff, but that'll end up having too much of your own opinions bleed through while Deus Ex was speculative while being completely correct. It was lightning a bottle and I don't think anything will ever be able to match those aspects of the writing.

>bro every single two-bit libertarian-leaning rightoid in america considers themselves "anti-corporate" and places the blame on "croney capitalism" and "corporatism."
And they're fucking lying to themselves. Every one of them starts screaming and crying when the topic of taxing the billionaires comes up, and suddenly they love telling you how much better off we are thanks to Jeff Bezos. The original meaning of libertarian was anti-government socialists, and that is a close approximation of what the NSF is portrayed to believe in.

>Human beings feel pleasure when they are watched.
I guess I'm not a human being then.

Yeah it would be impossible to make another Deus Ex now, because its crazy conspiracy theories about how the world, corporations, and governments work turned out to be true. It's just a lot more obvious now.

Why are you locked in the bathroom?

In 1945, payroll tax did not exist, and the average income tax was less than 6%.
In 1900, the vast majority of the population were subsistence farmers.

Taxation is theft. All anti-corporation propaganda is a misdirection to distract you from WHO calls the shots. You are never allowed to ask WHO calls the shots, and what cabal they belong to. You are trained to hate abstract concepts that can never be destroyed, whilst being forbidden from hating the concrete people who do exist and have addresses. Stop being a retard.

user you're literally posting on a social media forum as we speak, and your brain will give you that sweet little dopamine hit when you refresh the page and see this hot new (You) coming your way. don't lie to yourself.

Nope. Arrogance is saying "The word of God is wrong and my interpretation is valid even though it objectively was not written with those intentions and ideas in mind." It's not a valid interpretation, it's arrogant stupidity. You can say that you understand what the author was going for and you think they did a poor job of it, but to actually say "No, the with of fiction is actually about these ideas despite it literally not being written about those ideas" makes you a subhuman retard.

what if one used modern day conspiracy theories?
like qanon, the cult of saturn, blackrock, all the schizo shit.
would it work?
what are some wacky conspiracies that would be worth putting in a "deus exian" game?

Getting a (You) on an anonymous imageboard is not comparable to being under constant surveillance and having details of my real self read back to me.
And honestly, I've started to dread even (You)s a bit since it's usually some inane bullshit.

Manga puts western comics to shame in terms of paneling and layout. I can't read western stuff anymore because of that specifically.

okay, retard.

>All anti-corporation propaganda is a misdirection to distract you from how corporations control the world

maybe you don't, but some people (unfortunately) do
just look at social media like instagram where people share almost every little detail of their own lives for validation from others.
look at youtube, where some people vlog everything about their lives for the enjoyment of others
we live in a real life truman show. if that doesn't tell you we live in a dystopia, then i don't know what to tell you.

>no bro, trust me, capitalism would be amazing if white people were in charge (do not look up what % of CEOs are white guys, just trust me, it's actually secretly jews)
>we should keep everything exactly the same and just have white people run it, then you'll really be free
lmao

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hiroyuki was literally ousted from 2ch for selling user data to advertisers

please stop thinking you're special for posting on the sekrit club website instead of facebook lol

>immediately assumes its jews

got something to share with the class?

The rise of the internet means that normal people have too much access to information now. The only things left that are "conspiracy theories" are shit like flat earth. Even if did a 1:1 parallel with Corona in a game and had the reveal be that the world governments made and released it to control global trade, people would just play the game and say "Yeah. I kind of figured." Really to have the same kind of impact as the original Deus Ex you'd have to predict something as big and specific as a president getting assassinated used as pretext to start a war in a specific region of the world, only to have that president still be alive and working on the payroll of whichever billionaire wanted the war to happen.

If that's what you took away from that post of all things, you're most likely too retarded to continue bothering with, so whatever.
I don't doubt it. The thought of having any personal info up for anyone to see just makes me wince and I could never understand the other end of the spectrum.

aren't you people supposed to be the masculine ubermensch or some shit, why is every nazi such a massive fucking pussy who will talk all day about how (((they))) run the world but then cower like a little faggot the second anyone notices that's what you're obviously doing LMAO

>what if one used modern day conspiracy theories?
>like qanon, the cult of saturn, blackrock, all the schizo shit.
>would it work?
Qanon is obviously retarded and blackrock is obviously an extremely powerful and evil organization. Cult of Saturn might hit the sweet spot?

>In 1900, the vast majority of the population were subsistence farmers.
the majority of the american population didn't even live on a farm by 1900, let alone be a subsistence farmer. at least get your basic facts straight before you start throwing out wild claims.

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