But for real, what were they thinking when they made this

>The gameplay is a solid evolution of SA style
Both Heroes and Shadow play worse than SA2.

Sonic’s 90’s extreme attitude didn’t mesh with 00’s edge attitude. They didn’t want to reboot Sonic in some bad way(lol) so Shadow was ready to exploit. If he landed you would probably see Sonic pushed more to the background. The problem is Sega thought Sonic not selling to expectations was because it was a character problem not a Sonic Team sucks shit at making games for machines that are made internally problem. I still enjoy adventure 1&2 on Dreamcast (or better sadx) but the port to Gamecube was dog shit and Heroes was running out of excuses of not knowing architecture. By the time Shadow rolled out Sonic Team should have had a handle on at least one of the consoles the game came out for. Sega is still just retarded, as it seems everyone but Sega knows how to make a Sonic game.

...

this really, my main problem is how fucking slow the game is. SA2 was slower than SA but not THAT slow.

>How can we make riding a motorcycle feel like shit?
>How can we make firing a gun unsatisfying?
>How can we make a deathmatch mode where you play as robots not fun?
And they did it. Amazing.

Shadow's issues isn't how it's controlled, it's the level design.

I don't think anyone feels the gunplay was unsatisfying or that the multiplayers was particularly bad. Really the only issue the game had was following the chaotix formula.

It still controls worse than SA2 whether that's an "issue" or not. Rail grinding is also worse than SA2's, like in Heroes. The gameplay isn't an evolution in any sense.

Also Shadow the Hedgehog just doesn't fucking run well, the game turns into a slide show immediately upon starting the first level, and continues to chug whenever things get a bit complicated. Which is weird because SA2B ran fine on the gamecube despite looking better.

Both are slipperier, but i'd argue heroes has superior level design to sa2.

>I don't think anyone feels the gunplay was unsatisfying
I do, and so do most, you dumbass. You can barely even aim, not that it matters with every enemy besides bosses go down like they were made of tissue paper.

plenty of people feel shadow has superior rail grinding. shadow's got its problems but don't pretend its some kind of antichrist, save it for 06.

lmao, the gunplay in shadow is fine and it auto aims. its not some fps its still an action platformer, enemies taking time to kill would be a pain in the ass.

SA2 has good level design to compliment the controls. Shadow has an evolved version of those controls but the level design works against it.

They had a resource budget and scheduling for a specific amount of cg cutscenes so they built a game around them.

>it's the level design.
More like the design in general
>vehicles exist, get stuck past certain parts, handle poorly, slower than Shadow
>guns and melee weapons feel samey
>Hero objectives often involve rescuing people or finding something yet the Hero meter move makes you jump chunks of a level even up to the goal ring
>more puzzles than Adventure
>all those branching paths to play the same handful of levels

I didn't say it was hard, I said it was unsatisfying. And it is. A completely worthless addition that only serves to make Shadow look like a fucking psychopath, make the devs look like children, and facilitate the retarded enemy kill objectives that litter like half the levels.

>plenty of people feel shadow has superior rail grinding
What the fuck. I played Shadow when it released and I don't remember anyone claiming that the rail grinding was improved in any real way. It's pretty much the same as it was in Heroes.
>shadow's got its problems but don't pretend its some kind of antichrist, save it for 06.
All I said was that it plays worse than SA2. You're the one rushing the suck the game's dick.

>I don't think anyone feels the gunplay was unsatisfying
>weak sound design
>heavy auto aim
>human and alien guns are often just reskins
>big guns don't affect the environment and sometimes you have to wait for enemies to get out of their getting up animation to blow them up again
>faster to just homing attack everything

I remember having alot of fun playing this with my older sister. She never wanted to play again after the first time though and that made me pretty sad

>psychopath
lmfao.
the gun is just longer range attacks in poor attempt to make killing enemies in shitty chaotix style missions feel less samey. It was during a time where everyone and their mom was making some edgy version of their mascots(see jak 2 and spyro). As for the unsatisfying buzzword, I felt the sound and effects were fine(gatling gun felt pretty damn good) so could explain a bit on that part.

>people like Shadow? let's take him and remove any ounce of subtlety and give him a fucking gun

>Shadow has an evolved version of those controls
Shadow only has an evolved version of Heroes' controls, but both games still play worse than SA2, (and SA1, honestly) hence why most consider the gameplay mediocre. The level design is definitely a problem, but Shadow himself is still not a very fun character to move around. At most he just controls "well enough" in order for the platforming to not be a major problem.

no one's clamoring over shth obviously, but most people's takes on grinding seem to be overall positive since there was balancing meme unlike heroes and sa2.

no balancing meme*

The worst part is that there's actually a gold nugget of an idea burried in the narrative. Shadow has amnesia, he goes through a series of levels learning truth and lies about his origin, his past, ans his future, only to come to the decision at the end that none of that actually matters, and that who is is a decision that he himself will make though the choices and actions he makes today. Shadow the Hedgehog is not defined by his past, but by his present, as the title theme suggests, "I am all of me", nothing more or less. But this is utterly let down by the fact that shadow's character throughout the story ranges from boring old fuck to delusional psychopath. The way to fix this would require changing sonic adventure 2, but in a way that would make that game's story better as well: turn shadow from a brooding moper who takes himself seriously into a beligerent child obviously just trying to make himself look badass. That would make his decision to challenge sonic even at personal risk more understandable, his decision to destroy the world over the death of Maria, and the ease of which he was convinced to change his mind, more logical, and turn his edgy misanthropy from a source of embarassment into a source of comedy. A more straight forward narrative for Shadow would have also been helpful, get rid of the branching and just put all the levels end to end. 22 stages is pleanty, considering they're all the kind of stage players actually like, and it would allow for removal of some of the objective conditions that were just added to facilitate choosing a path rather than fun.

>most people's takes on grinding seem to be overall positive since there was balancing meme unlike heroes and sa2
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. The only game that featured rail balancing was SA2, which is part of what made it better since Heroes and Shadow changed rail grinding into mindless set pieces where you just spam the "go faster" button.
I've never seen general consensus consider the rail grinding in those games to be better, if anything they just lump Heroes and Shadow's together with the rail grinding in 06 and the boost games where they all just serve as "watch Sonic/whoever do cool thing with barely any input" moments.

FUCK THIS STAGE SO MUCH

Attached: file.png (1124x848, 1.1M)

It was far more hilarious than people said. Can't believe it took until this year for me to watch gameplay of it.

Remind me which spyro game lets you gun down cops with a submachine gun? Or more precisely, TELLS YOU to gun down cops with a submachine gun?

I've never completed the Hero mission here, ever.
Could only get to the max-Hero final mission from Space Gadget.

This is unironically a good game. It's just a pain in the ass to 100%, that's all. Vehicle controls sucks ass too.

I meant the lack of balancing was a point in its favor for most people. Heroes actually had balancing but it was just to optimize your speed.
typically the point for grinding then on was to switch rails or jump off for a short cut, which I'd agree is fairly braindead since it could have just been a regular path. To most people who play I've seen play sonic, balancing was a pain, it's just what I heard most often.

it's not guns specifically, though I do remember turrets. It's the legend trilogy with its darker atmosphere and story, it had quite a few instances of deaths and war.

This was the result of 9/11, right?

>heroes has superior level design to sa2.
not with those shitty rooms full of enemies, no.

>”let’s make a game that’s kino as fuck”

NO MORE GODS
NO MORE GRAVES

>To most people who play I've seen play sonic, balancing was a pain, it's just what I heard most often.
Sounds like the same type of people who would consider the boost a good idea because they kept running into enemies.

Shadow the Hedgehog feels like a parody until you actually play it

just spam team blast. otherwise the levels had quite a few instances of branching paths even if they were fairly short branches.

Its the fucking sickest shit on the planet, and theyre right.

Yeah it's just how a good chunk of the fanbase is, I assume they're zoomies typically. I'd say boost was good enough in unleashed since missile, flame and shock enemies could fuck you over and the level design could really wring ya, but it was downhill from there.

>I'd say boost was good enough in unleashed since missile, flame and shock enemies could fuck you over and the level design could really wring ya, but it was downhill from there.
Boost was never good in anything because it's just rolling dumbed down for retards.

Are any of the Sonic games that came out after 06 worth a playthrough?
That game basically killed the series for me and I ignored all further entries since then with the exception of Mania.

youtube.com/watch?v=vGowa8UHFWE

This IS the most 2005 thing ever.

Generations is probably the least offensive game available after 06.

Shadow the Hedgehog is a legitimately interesting character. His background was sufficiently mysterious enough to implement a mindblowing CYOA style of storytelling that resulted in completely different explanations about who he actually is.

A problem is that they didn't want to have a game that's essentially non-canon, where nothing of lasting consequence comes out of it; yet they couldn't just end up where they started, with Shadow's origin being explained similarly to what SA2 said it was. So they had to make a weird canon plot that took elements from the others and mashed them together for a truth, even though they are incompatible.

They also wanted to make a game with similar gameplay to Sonic Adventure, but they didn't have experienced staff to do so with, and ended up with something vastly technically inferior.

They surveyed a bunch of twelve year olds who specifically requested a shadow game, and a game where Sonic can use guns. They didn't anticipate that a silent majority of Sonic fans would turn around and say "what the fuck is that?", and they didn't anticipate just how quickly early 00's edge would become mid 00's cringe (this literally happened in the space of about two years).

Are you a bad enough dude to get all 326 level paths completed?

making an oddly fun game about the best boy

The problem with Shadow after SA2, is his story is finished. He literally died. We know where he came from, and what his beef with humanity was, so they had to insert more caveats about him actually being cloned from aliens, which doesn't really do anything to improve on the simple Frankenstein's monster thing they had going on in SA2. If anything, it just bogs the narrative down, and drags it into convoluted territory.
>will I be good, or will I be bad?
You solved this already Shadow. That's literally your arc in SA2. Why are we still doing this?

these

look at this
youtube.com/watch?v=wxsZmmxUgkM
it's garbage technically speaking

Attached: reaction face 2.5.png (190x212, 1.65K)

Unleashed, Colors, and Generations are all worth a playthrough. Mania goes without saying, I'm pretty sure you've heard how great it is.

>The problem with Shadow after SA2, is his story is finished. He literally died.
he didn't "literally die"
he fell out of space
anything could have happened to him
>We know where he came from, and what his beef with humanity was
Not necessarily
there are many details left out from the overall story that Shadow the Hedgehog offers fill-ins for
there's enough gaps that what-ifs and such could be offered as story
>You solved this already Shadow. That's literally your arc in SA2. Why are we still doing this?
His fall caused amnesia that made him forget who he is, and his nature is such that determining his purpose in life was a huge motivator for him
He was made to be a weapon, so it's not surprising that he's not inherently benevolent and has the capacity to act heinously

i guess? boosting can be pretty braindead in concept, but in execution it typically felt pretty risk and reward in unleashed. It did lead to colors and forces so i can say 3d rolling would have better for the series overall.

>Unleashed, Colors
Opinion discarded

Amnesia is just an excuse to do his character arc all over again. That's not satisfying. It's a cop-out.

ps2 version is ass. gamecube and xbox are 60 fps and pretty steady.

NO MORE LIFE
NO MORE DEATH
SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN

colors is one thing but public opinion on unleashed has already 180'd werehog included. even if we don't consider what normalfags think, daytime unleashed is pretty damn good if you can enjoy the beat em up levels