How do we save the mmo genre?

Why hasnt someone made a game that just removes all of the massive world/levelling/crafting/housing/other systems bloat that infests these games and just make a focused experience around the raiding/dungeon content only. Have a tutorial that only lasts an hour and not 50, and have people doing standard mmo gameplay loops straight away

Yes, you're right. I played WoW classic without ever playing retail ever and I loved it. It is an awesome game, the loot feels meaningful and I thought the world was amazing all. Sadly, zoomers don't like that and the rest of people don't stand those old mechanics.

I wish loot in final fantasy XIV was more like classic, not just +100 to X stat and the world didn't have loading screens

I honestly imagine it wouldn't do that well?
Multiplayer games need a decent population to keep existing and draw people in.
I know back when I played XIV I knew a lot of people where they honestly didn't give a shit about anything but crafting. Even some of the top raiders I knew played a lot more than they would of because they enjoyed crafting.

>pve dungeon
Most of those live service games follow the usual "dungeon > combat > hub > organize loot" rotation.
>raid coop content
I can't think any interesting example, so I guess MMOs still have this in their arsenal.
A recent (but still not interesting) example I can think of is Phantasy Star Online 2 New Genesis' 32-man battles against large bosses, but I guess you could argue that PSO2 is a MMO despite being a tiny game with just two hubs and six NPC stores (like the average live service game).
People often say great things about Destiny's "raids" but they are basically 6-man dungeons and honestly I don't believe in anything positive people say about Destiny.

To not overwhelm the player with features, to provide a basic sense of progression (so the player is more likely to get attached to his character), and to create socialization situations (even if in your experience you went from lvl.1 to level cap without touching the chat, some social butterfly will either find or create his own guild and organize a group interested in weekly endgame content before reaching the level cap).

Not possible, mmos only work when theres community adventure and accomplishments, community is dead because of social media, adventure died with wikia and accomplishment is impossible with microtransactions

Like society itself, MMOs are not worth saving.

I honestly can't think of many live service games. Most of the time I've found when it comes to non-mmo games with dungeons and whatnot the mechanics tend to be way too basic to be interesting.
I've played PSO2 plenty and wouldn't super consider it a mmo but NGS is pretty shite.
I've tried Destiny too but I suck ass at shooters, the game didn't really hook me and it's pricing model is kinda shitty I feel.

its over
you dont
ive accepted it
its time to move on

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Gatekeep people

This unironically

Stop trying to make "The next big thing." It was having one MMO with millions of players that killed it. We need smaller MMOs with no more than 100k players. Also devs should treat people who say "I don't want to talk to players to do endgame content." As idiots and ignore them.

But maybe a game like that would work and people would stick around to play it? Games like deep rock galactic do well with just the core gameplay loop and a very light progression system, why not take the raid coop style of game found in mmos and just do the same thing?
You wont overwhelm players with a simpler game, and we are way past the era where people are still learning about using forums and wikis. You can still provide character progression in the form of a much smaller and tighter levelling system that only takes an hour, and having character progression beyond this. Socialisation features is not an mmo exclusive thing anymore.

When Pantheon comes out in 13 years...

Yeah, they are all very linear and basic, and pretty much all of them rely heavily on the player character's features because designing interesting dungeon layouts and enemy encounters is hard. You can even find this sort of game on phones now.

If the game is that "simple", can you really consider it a MMO? I mean, won't it not just a co-op game like DRG, Destiny, etc?

That isn't even unique. You had to do that for Nigghog in FFXI.

Destiny 1 is unironically the best MMO to come out in the last 15 years.

That is why I'm glad Lost Ark didn't hold a million players. It holding 300k is fine there needs to be smaller communities. When you have a massive one like WoW you get the cancer and the people who just play to play the popular thing not because they care about the game.

Mm, that's a good point honestly. I kinda forgot about DRG. Though brings up a good point. A lot of the fun I've had in mmo's PVE is mixing the complexity of your class and it's limitations with the mechanics of the boss fight / dungeon to try and perform optimally. There;s a lot of fun in playing a burst-y class and hitting a point where you have a burst ready to go but the pack is almost dead so you hold it back to wipe out the next pack faster.
I think a lot of those games being so basic is why I never stuck with them long. A big part of the fun is how you interact with different mechanics based on your class and the type of mechanics. I think that's a big reason I keep going back to some rougelites as how you approach things will vastly change depending on your build.

That's sad as fuck for MMOs

I hate the fact that I miss out on this era because of the retarded monthly fee in the 00s. Didn't join Everquest 2, SWG, FF11, WoW, City of Heroes, and all those good mmo in their prime. Fuck subscription fee and fuck anyone that defends it.

It was the original filter. And it worked.

The only thing worth saving is Guild Wars 1. It needs to be preserved with an offline server before they finally decided to shut down the real ones.

Imma be honest, I'm ok with sub fee as long as they get greedy like WoW with comestics, store mounts and expansions

Guild Wars 2 is not fun.
FF14 is not fun.
WoW is not fun.

Saving the MMO genre requires video games with MMO aspects. People are very confused on what an MMO should be but for some reason think it has anything to do with "Raiding" and "Cosmetics" which fundamentally it has nothing to do with.

That's why the genre is fucked. Consumers are too stupid and think they want cosmetics. Developers are too greedy and think we need cosmetics.

they don get greedy*

IIRC they've said that GW1 is so cheap to maintain that they're just going to keep it running forever.

dont know dont care
playing puzzle pirates

Subscriptions are the reason why some of these games had fairly consistent updates. Even today you can't easily launch an live service title and promise upcoming updates if you don't have the budget to actually deliver them.

by letting it die and allowing people who actually have games as a passion, rather than profiteers seeking a quick buck to reanimate its corpse
quite literally the only fucking way that the MMO genre can be remotely saved is by people looking to just make a for-fun game in their basement, rather than a corporate entity seeking to maximize profit to playtime ratios

I've played almost all the major MMOs.
I can remember player names from 2 of them. EVE Online and WoW Vanilla.

Every other MMO has been an "Attempt" at best. FF14 is not an MMO. GW2 is not an MMO.

Make a MMO vidya like Elden Ring where people play together in servers of like 100 people, no raids for 10 people, more like bosses for 2-3. Make it difficult and rewarding.

>Get rid of the if you don't do this daily/weekly thing you are falling behind bullshit.
>Get rid of required main questline railroads
>Get rid of item systems that make most of a player's builds for them, like set/tier gear
>Get rid of item level systems in general
>Get rid of systems that remove players needing to interact from the game, like group finders
>Get rid of systems that make the open world pointless. The open world might as well not even be in the game if the endgame is just teleporting between dungeons/raids and hubtowns.
These are the system I've come to hate recently with modern MMOs off the top of my head.

entry interview before allowing account creation
$1000/year minimum subscription fee
1 game character per person

Most of the money gained from FFXIV goes to other games lmao what are you even saying. These people are greedy as fuck so they put subscriptions along with microtransactions because why not, retards will pay anyway.

no point in anyone trying to make the one big MMO that solves everything. WoW for the all round experience with a good dungeon system, GW2 for no sub world vs world, FF14 for e brothels, Lost Ark for gambling addicts. All the niches have been filled.

Completely agree with you, though I haven`t played Eve because the scifi setting doesn`t interest me too much. I miss the feeling of adventure so much.

That is just how things are with anything in this industry. Companies are always looking for new ways to expand so profits from one products will be used to create new ones.
But SE's stupid DoA projects are still better than Gamigo's "development" model (kill it and make the veterans pay to fuck its corpse).

>1 game character per person
impossible to enforce

Is it just me or is it the more I play gw2 the more it feels not complete? I don't even know how to describe it, they do some great things no matter how small but its like things are missing and I can't put my finger on it. The new classes are fun though.

>Burnt out on XIV
>Dont want to bother with WoW again in its current state
>Dont want any of this Korean gacha shit
>Cant take GW2 seriously without the trinity
>Nothing new of relevance has come out in years so my only choices lately have been old ass private servers
I dont know what to play anymore. I just want to play an old boomer MMO with basic questing, random party grinding, and a not dead population. I keep coming back to RO servers but I've seen it all.

Doesnt help that the game was soft abandoned for half a decade before they decided to revive it with the latest expansion. It definitely hasnt payed off for them yet because they sat on the IP for so long, but come steam release we might see more effort from arenanet to make the game more complete

Stop pandering to gear treadmill addicts, people who want to be playing a singleplayer online game, and normalfags.

Start making actual MMOs again with gear upgrades that feel meaningful, a sense of adventure (ie. use the fucking world; don't treat it like a hub-based coop game ala MH or Vindictus), and content that AT LEAST heavily encourages actually playing with others. No more sitting in a city for queues, instant gratification, and extremely short cycled gear replacement.

the monthly fee kept (most) of the retards, the poorfags, the children, and the midwits out. it was a nice barrier.

this unironically, the MMORPG genre means many different things to many different people. Some people want a social venue that they can roleplay in, others want to do raids and nothing but raids, others want PvP.

MMORPGs are the video-game extension of DnD, but I'm old and I detest the lobby-simulator the genre has become.

TBC killed it with flying mounts, arenas and overfocusing on instanced PvE.

come pillage with us :)

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Agreed, TBC was the start of the current design. Flying mounts ruined world exploration, "liveliness" and scale. Arenas introduced the esport competitive element that would soon dictate the design of all elements of the game.

I'd play a MMO that was like hardcore Minecraft. If you die you lose everything except your friends list. I think that would encourage people to band up together, strategize for large fights, and stockpile resources and gear incase a party member died and they need new stuff.

You mean something like Mortal Online 2?

What MMO lets me play [really cool support class] and everyone is like "Damn im glad we found a X." Am I going to have to play more private servers of old soulful games only?

Yup.
They don't really exist anymore.
I do NOT recommend playing DAoC, but I wanted to share that was one of my favorite parts. Being a random utility class that would make people go "fuck I'm glad have this guy, everything is smoother."
MMOs dont do that anymore. "Support" or "utility" classes are almost non-existent. Everything is so homogenized because people bitch their class isn't doing "enough damage" or some shit. Bitch, you're a utility class! Fuck damage! Enable the damage! Read between the lines!
But DPS meters have kind of rotted people's brains I guess.

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>" Am I going to have to play more private servers of old soulful games only?
Yes. On the bright side, ignore the retards that tell you a mmo need 10000000000000000000000000 players. You only need at least 500-1000 players to feel like an mmo. The retards that wanted 10000000000000000000000000 players will never meet most of those players.

/thread
it's a shit genre and GAYMMERRRS aren't interesting or pure enough to enjoy MMOs without there being a carrot on a stick