> I challenge you to finish this game!
Challenge accepted
- Pacing issues galore
- Flashbacks inside of flashbacks
- People trying to do banter with each other but they lack any personality so it feels like robots
- Game tried to give the illusion of Open World, but gave up on that after Joel died for some reason. Follow that quest objective marker!
- So many logic inconsistencies that it makes my head spin
> Watch out, Mel is pregnant. Hey Mel is Pregnant you guys
- Forgets to mention it when at actual gunpoint.
- AI kept doing stupid shit. Like standing on a box that I was hiding behind, clearly seeing me. Then putting their weapon away and walking away.
I am disappointing beyond measure even though I had seen most spoilers, but the spoilers were nothing compared to the dread of actually playing it yourself.
Imagine watching 2 idiots who do not have any chemistry try to move the plot along by slowly walking to that objective marker.
I have seen housewife drama shows from Spain with more spunk and more interesting plot points than this thing.
I won the challenge, but I still feel like I lost. What a miserable game.
WTF did I just finish?
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>- Forgets to mention it when at actual gunpoint.
Sure, if you get held at gunpoint you should definitely disclose your greatest vulnerability to the attacker. They definitely won't single you out or otherwise use the information against you.
>Game tried to give the illusion of Open World, but gave up on that after Joel died for some reason.
The only open world segment of this game takes place after he dies.
>Follow that quest objective marker!
There are no objective markers in this game, unless you enable a special accessibility option.
>Imagine watching 2 idiots who do not have any chemistry
This is the main problem of the game. None of the characters are interesting, say interesting things or have any kind of chemistry with each other. It's like watching wet cardboard boxes interact with each other.
Its still a better move than to try to wressle the gun away. Ellie was totally holding the idiot ball on this one by allowing whatever his name was to get close in the first place. But Ellie made it blatantly clear that she was not after their lives, she just wanted Abby. Someone whom Mel clearly stated to that she was not falling for the whole best Scarkiller turning good guy over trying to help a Scar kid cus she is a kid. it turns your greatest vulnerability into a big bargaining chip.
Besides, how good do you think Mel is going to be in combat? You raise the stress levels or bloodpressure of a late term pregnant woman high enough and you got yourself a miscarriage anyway.
>The only open world segment of this game takes place after he dies.
Wait, really? Well my bad.
> There are no objective markers in this game, unless you enable a special accessibility option.
Yeah I turned them on for when I had NO idea where to go anymore when I had to go around the house with a baby. Turned out I had to interact with a lamb outside.
Everything before that is just a lengthy corridor with an easy to guess "GO HERE TO PROCEED"
Yup. Although I must say I liked the part where Ellie and Joel go to the dinosaur museum. Which honestly only made that contrast stand out so much more when the flashback ended.
>Ellie made it blatantly clear that she was not after their lives
You, as the player, know this.
Mel possibly doesn't recognise Ellie at all, and if she does, the only thing she would know is that she was close to Joel.
Mel doesn't really know what Ellie wants or what she's capable of. She has no reason to believe anything said.
>it turns your greatest vulnerability into a big bargaining chip.
Maybe. It's risky. You're relying on the sense, humanity, and compassion of a nervous, erratic young person who's already holding you at gunpoint.
I would understand mentioning it, but I would also understand shutting the fuck up and just doing what the girl with the gun says.
That was Mel's plan, and it would actually have worked well if it weren't for Owen's interference due to him placing Abby's safety above that of Mel and their unborn child.
didn't play this game, just fapped to the porn
Joel did nothing wrong.
based
It wasn't all that bad. Playing as troon lady was kinda lame and joel being killed by her sucked. Other than that the gameplay was great and story was ok.
>You, as the player, know this.
Naw, fuck that. We as a player know that Ellie allowed Mel to come closer and did not warn Owen when he also closed the distance. The plot litterally depended on Ellie holding the idiot ball and Mel suddenly wearing belly-obscuring clothing.
Not to mention belly obscuring clothing really does not work that well at short range, like when you are pointing at something on a map. You either look preggers or fat. Mel's face does not look fat. So those clothes are a lazy mcguffin
> Mel possibly doesn't recognize Ellie at all
Ellie says "Hands up! where is Abby?"
Owen goes "You that girl from Jackson?"
I mean, sure, but now we also have to write for ourselves that Mel was panicing
> "HowDoWeKnowYouWontKillUs?" Alright, maybe a bit more merit there, but then again, Owen remained calm. If he was after his own agenda that went over Mel's belly then it could have been set up more like a Spanish soap and still feel better. Even if the end result was the same
> a nervous, erratic young person who's already holding you at gunpoint.
Ellie was calm, said 2 times that she was not after their lives, did not even raise her voice until Mel did not do as she said. From that point on it escalated because we need to fill in for the game that Owen loves Abby too much to give her up and chooses to jump the gun instead.
> but I would also understand shutting the fuck up and just doing what
Goddamn this part reminds me that all of this BS could have been avoided at Jackson if only Joel did not allow Tommy to give out their real names to strangers. Again, idiot ball holding.
>Sure, if you get held at gunpoint you should definitely disclose your greatest vulnerability to the attacker.
nigga wtf. when held at gunpoint a bullet is your greatest vulnerability
>Imagine watching 2 idiots who do not have any chemistry try to move the plot along
>I have seen housewife drama shows from Spain with more spunk and more interesting plot points than this thing.
>None of the characters are interesting, say interesting things or have any kind of chemistry with each other. It's like watching wet cardboard boxes interact with each other.
I don't understand this perspective at all. This is practically the only game I've played where the key characters are complicated, realistic, three-dimensional people who make decisions for nuanced reasons beyond just audience satisfaction. It helps that it's also the only game with mocap good enough to properly read everyone's face.
It has issues. Some of the supporting cast are quite shallow (like Manny or the sadistic guy who's the first human you kill), and there's a bit of an overreliance on coincidence and on characters making stupid decisions. But it's ridiculously far ahead of normal game writing. What fucking games have you anons been playing that this seems bad by comparison?
>This is practically the only game I've played where the key characters are complicated, realistic, three-dimensional people who make decisions for nuanced reasons beyond just audience satisfaction.
Play more games.
>Ellie was calm
She doesn't shout, but she's clearly a nervous wreck throughout the interaction.
>story was ok
Yeah maybe if you got brainrot from watching too much capeshit and CW shows.
> La Trappe, Belgian Beers.png
It is affecting your sense of geography too.
On par with Yakuza 0 in terms of how badly written it is and how retarded the characters act.
Well at least the gameplay in TLOU2 was decent (still not good though)
I have played a lot of video games in my life user, and with a particular focus on story-heavy ones since I've always liked those.
So how about you be specific and name an actual title that you consider to be a better, more interesting, more realistic character drama than this one?
>realistic
>your guy goes missing
>clear signs of unknown people squatting
>noises from the basement of someone getting beaten
>BETTER PEAK THROUGH THE DOOR SLOWLY
literally every single character in this game was retarded as fuck.
I maintain that by keeping her mouth mostly shut and obeying her captor's instructions without disclosing any information she doesn't have to, Mel handled the situation very well.
Mention the pregnancy and who knows. Ellie might not have believed her, or might have been a complete psycho and moved the gun to her belly.
It would also mean that she's more likely to be picked if Ellie were to decide to take one hostage to keep at gunpoint rather than sweeping it over both of them.
can you name these games?
>Mention the pregnancy and who knows.
yes who knows, MAYBE she would have lived. which is literally what happened to ellie and the italian girl. the only thing dumber than the game are the apologists.
There were three ways she could have handled it.
(1) Retreat, get backup, scope out other ways in, etc. This is the sensible and self-preserving option, but she hears Joel in grave danger right now, so that approach is ruled out.
(2) Open the door quickly, virtually guaranteeing the immediate attention of anyone and everyone in the room.
(3) Open the door partially and slowly, giving some chance of being unnoticed if nobody in the room happens to be looking at it.
>complicated, realistic, three-dimensional people who make decisions for nuanced reasons beyond just audience satisfaction.
Like who? Joel who can not even defend his position that he saved Ellie from an organisation that pretty much promised him guns for making a delivery but then doing a complete 180 by actually TAKING his guns and escorting him out of the compound where a still unconscious Ellie was being held, not even allowing her to make the choice for herself? Suddenly this is a point brought up in the 2nd game where Abby goes to say that if she was the one immune, she would say yes to the operation that would kill her to better mankind. Hmm
Back to Joel. if he was a realistic three-dimensional person then he would have found a way to justify to not only himself but also in such a way that others could follow his logic as to why the fireflies are bad. Instead what did we get? A promise to Ellie that is he could somehow do it all over again that he would not change a damn thing. This is absolutely the opposite of realistic or three-dimensional.
> beyond just audience satisfaction
Yeah, which is why we have a scene where Tommy jumps the gun at one point, and one where Owen jumps the gun, and a scene where Abby shows off her pectorals. You know, mostly scenes that are for the satisfaction of getting someones rocks off.
> It helps that it's also the only game with mocap good enough to properly read everyone's face.
Then why is it even a videogame? The gamer can't emote, he's just there for the ride, being able to sometimes control the puppets and making all sorts of ludonarrative dissonance.
You know what game did not have this problem? TLOU1, Uncharted, Bioschock Infinite. They were able to tell a better story without using fancy mocap technology. Doesn't that just mean that TLOU2 is worse because it relies on that tech?
> But it's ridiculously far ahead of normal game writing.
You should watch The 100 by CW. I think you would like it. I mean YEEESH
i didn't like the first one so i never played the second one. considering the huge garbage fire arguing around the second game seems like it was the correct decision
>Open the door partially
>giving some chance of being unnoticed
room temperature
youtu.be
I went and looked for you, user. Here it is. I think you might be wrong on that. There even is a construction lamp in the faces of Owen and Mel. I do not think they were even able to wage how nervous Ellie was in this.
lol no. you're just an easily intimidated drone that's afraid to have their own opinion.
>the huge garbage fire arguing around the second game seems like it was the correct decision
lol you have no clue. one of the original creators heavily edited Neil's retarded ideas in the first game and was ultimately kicked out of the company. in the sequel Neil decided to take his revenge, direct the game on his own and undo everything about the first game. the only problem is that had no one to hide behind and was revealed for being a total hack.
>if he was a realistic three-dimensional person then he would have found a way to justify to not only himself but also in such a way that others could follow his logic as to why the fireflies are bad.
haha this is the funniest shit i've ever read.
>Joel is not a 3 dimensional character because he didn't go all debatelord on Ellie's ass.
>one of the original creators heavily edited Neil's retarded ideas in the first game and was ultimately kicked out of the company.
speculation. Strailey was responsible for gameplay only, had nothing to do with the direction of the game and you have no idea why he left the company.
You are DEFENDING a MCGUFFIN!
Not to mention that you are not just going to blurt out that you are pregnant. It is called Diplomacy. But I am sure you are going to perish if you ever get into a hands up situation.
Maybe you even get the chance IRL to jump the gun.
> rather than sweeping
> sweeping
Does this look like a TEC-9 to you?
yeah i'm lying about skipping the sequel to the box pushing, pallet floating, boring wannabe the road shit. fuck off you homo, not everyone got fooled into playing this moviegame a second time
i'm not saying you lying you retard. i'm saying that you're a fag that is afraid to have their own opinion. i don't even know why you're commenting on a game you haven't played.
You never had a fatherfigure in your life did you?
> debatelord
Fucking kek.
what is the MACGUFFIM, user?
>Back to Joel. if he was a realistic three-dimensional person then he would have found a way to justify to not only himself but also in such a way that others could follow his logic as to why the fireflies are bad
Joel's logic wasn't that the fireflies were bad. He did what he did because he was unwilling to lose another daughter.
He knew before he did it that it wasn't something Ellie would accept or forgive, which would be why he tried to hide it for years.
But he also really isn't sorry and really would do it again, so there isn't really anything to say. He stands his ground and it takes Ellie aback.
If no-one is actively watching the door, then a small and gradual movement is their peripheral vision is less likely to be noticed than a large and sudden one.
If someone IS watching the door, then yes, a sneaky slow open would be way more suspicious than just swinging it normally. But in that case she's likely fucked anyway.
I'd say it's clear from the start that she's completely out of her depth and not really in control of the situation.
i had and it's obvious that Joel has find a way to deal internally with the firefly situation. he just struggles with Ellie because she's genuinely the only thing he cars about and bullshitting doesn't come easy. how can you people not see how much of a blindspot she is for him. if he was the kind of person to deal with shit the way you're describing he would have left her to die in that firefly hospital situation and just find a way to justify his decision.
>But I am sure you are going to perish if you ever get into a hands up situation.
If I'm ever held at gunpoint, I'm going to keep my mouth shut as far as possible and comply with my captor's instructions if I'm willing to do so (which Mel clearly was). I almost certainly would be willing to do so unless it endangered a close loved one. I'm considerably more likely to survive the encounter than you seemingly are.
>Does this look like a TEC-9 to you?
>Sweeping is defined as allowing the muzzle of a firearm—whether loaded or unloaded—to pass across any portion of any human body
In this specific example the McGuffin is the strange thick jacket that hides 3rd trimester pregnancies when standing up.
Think how the scene would have played out if Ellie was able to tell that Mel was pregnant with a single glance. Ellie would never have gotten that singlestab-doulekill and needed to vomit after.
The sad part is that we did not really need this stupid McGuffin anyway. Owen could have cought Ellie in a hallway, Ellie could have pulled a gun on him telling him to put his hands up. Mel comes walking by, Ellie goes "You are pregnant?", At which point she is just distracted enough for Owen to decide to jump for the gun, gun goes sideways and goes off in such a way it mortally wounds Mel. Owen gets killed before Ellie finds out that Mel was injured, they struggle to stop the bleeding together and ultimately fail.
But at this point I am willing to believe that Dr Uckmann really did not want Ellie to be a good guy for her revenge mission and became like a kid with lego's trying to make puzzle pieces stick in ways I find completely idiotic.
why would i have an opinion about a sequel that i am not interested in playing. use your head before you answer
>The rare Last of Us Part 2 thread with actual discussion instead of a boring bait post.
Based as fuck OP.
>decides not to get revenge in order to stop the cycle
>this moral comes up no matter how many people you killed to get that revenge
They really didn't think that through did they?
>Some leftist shitter hijacks franchise and all he wants to is to promote left.
>Game is shit but at least there is a tranny/roid ogre, there are lesbians and white man got killed so leftist shitter is proud of himself.
>Pacing issues galore
>Game tried to give the illusion of Open World, but gave up on that after Joel died for some reason.
5 year dev cycle so it's literally just a ton of setpieces half-assedly stitched together, aka uncharted 3
you don't know what a macguffin is.
by exploring ellie's darker side the director doesn't want to tell you that she's a ''bad guy'', just that there are some easily reached depths when a person goes out on a revenge rampage because of deep grief.
your mind is working on a meme level, user. i hope for your sake that you're quite young.
In this case you'd hope they wouldn't kill a pregnant lady. You're already at gunpoint anyway
ask yourself that, i'm not the one posting about a game i haven't played because there was an ''internetic trashfire(retards screeching on the internet)''
The inyerviews suggest they worked on the entire game together though. He probably had some say over the story by suggesting what would t work given the gameplay. It's a collaborative effort, they aren't siloed off.
The jacket is by definition a macguffin, if it wasn’t there the scene would not have moved forward the way it did
that's exactly what it was, a bunch of screaming retards arguing the tenets of a boring moviegame. basically a retread of the last jedi and whatever other movie or tv show or game people imposed their politics on
of course they worked together for the entire game. it's a video game, gameplay director is bound to have some input but Strailey editorialising Druckman's ideas is just a myth. why would the gameplay director have any power over the director's ideas. the director is god on set.
I do not care what you call that jacket, McGuffin or not. If it was not there the scene would not have played out in that manner.
What do you propose we call it instead?
but why would you not play the game because some retards are arguing on the internet and how would you know it's a ''boring moviegame'' when you haven't even played it?
>Joel's logic wasn't that the fireflies were bad. He did what he did because he was unwilling to lose another daughter.
At the end of TLOU1 he had to shoot a lady. I do not know their history from the top of my head, but the human brain is wired to justify oneselves actions. The more year that pass the more clumped those decisions of "I was right" becomes.
Your attempts to prove that Joel is a three dimensional character only seem to prove more that the writer of TLOU2 was a complete hack
>If someone IS watching the door, then yes, a sneaky slow open would be way more suspicious than just swinging it normally. But in that case she's likely fucked anyway.
Pretty sure that Ellie already noticed that there was noone guarding their backs. Manny later points that out I think and scolds one of the others. If someone was watching their backs by litterally being in the previous room and acting as a sentry then noone would be watching that door in the first place.
(Not him)
Yes, the scene only worked because Mel was wearing clothing that diminished or hid her bump.
What I don't understand is why this is a bad thing. "Pregnant woman wears jacket" is not some implausible occurrence that stretches believability.
call it whatever you want. i'm just telling you that you're looking at the scene in a wrong way. things played out the way they did not because of Mel wearing a jacket but because Ellie is walking a dark path because she's unable to deal with Joel's death. it doesn't mean she's a bad person, she's dealing with impossible shit for all her life and she just lost the only person that loved her unconditionally.
They're both co-directors though. It was so collobartive that Bruce had input on the name even.
>Bruce, you're the game director, and Neil, you're the creative director. What do those two roles encapsulate?
Straley: Good question. [...] So Neil handles story and characters, I handle gameplay and, moment-to-moment, what's happening in the game. But we have to really be on the same page and see eye-to-eye on everything. So we're kind of like Voltron, only there's just two components.
Druckmann: There's a lot of overlap in what we do. --> 2013 Empire Interview
And he further emphasised their collaborative approach in the 2014 reddit AMA:
I think a lot about design and Bruce thinks a lot about story. We wrestle with ideas and make sure story is working with gameplay. --> Druckmann AMA
Sure, Druckmann handle the bulk of the story, but it isn't hard to believed that things were changed by the influence of multiple people, Straley included, because the story had to be cohesive with the story.
I'm not saying Straley just vetoed Druckmann, but they definitely bounced ideas off of each other.
It is still a story that is being told to us by a medium. A good medium would set up plot-points. For all intents and purposes Mel and Owen plus unborn dead is a plot-point from where I see it. However there was no set-up for Mel wearing a jacket at all. It could have easily been fixed with a scene where Mel wanted to get away from the Aquarium as soon as possible so they can get a solid lead on Abby who she thinks might come after them the moment that WLF also no longer wants her. She puts on her jacket and starts to collect gear when Owen disagrees and a small disagreement breaks out. Sudenly Ellie shows up and tells them calmly to put their hands in the air and asks them where Abby is. The problem is that you can not do this quite as efficiently because that would mean Mel would have absolutely no issue to rat out her ex-friend and the scene we got plays out better if Mel is hesistant to give up the location of her friend
> Maybe she is already dead
are words she utters in the scene we got.
He shot Marlene because he considered her an ongoing, unacceptable threat to both him and Ellie.
We never really learn how Joel dealt with it all in his own mind. He's a pretty stoic character who never really opens up. The intro conversation with Tommy, and the final "I would do it all over again", are the closest we get. We can read into that what we will.
>door
There's no good way to enter an unfamiliar room with at least one hostile actor, and possibly many more. Ellie decided to open it slowly, but upon seeing what was happening, immediately raised her weapon.
That wasn't the right decision. She should have stepped back so she could aim her weapon without her arms extending into the room, kicked the door open the rest of the way, aimed, and fired.
But it all happened in a fraction of a second and is a pretty plausible series of events in general.
If you played this game after seeing the tranny villain I have no sympathy for you
>I'm not saying Straley just vetoed Druckmann, but they definitely bounced ideas off of each other.
for sure and TLOU is a more tight game when it comes to pacing (so maybe Strailey could have some good input for TLOU2) but i just enjoyed the closer focus on the characters that the second part had. it was like it was a continuous close up take. the character's struggles never left the center of the scene. maybe it was because of the pandemic but when it came out it was a really cathartic experience to me.
First, she could be wearing the jacket because she's about to go outside for some fresh air or something. "Person wears jacket" isn't something that requires set-up.
Second, you're actually wrong about there being no jacket set-up! The timeline is:
>Mel and Abby get into a huge argument ending in Mel saying "You're a piece of shit, I'm done with you".
>Abby walks around the aquarium for a while, eventually meets Owen who's inside and in a tshirt.
>On hearing Yara shout, they run outside and find Mel also there
>Mel is wearing her jacket
>Abby and Yara leave
>an unknown but likely rather short amount of time passes
>Ellie arrives
>owen is still in his tshirt, Mel is still in her jacket
>they're arguing about whether to follow Abby
>Mel is hesitant, but essentially willing, to betray Abby's location
>Owen isn't
Abby isn't trans. She's extremely muscular but there's a story justification for that (she's obsessive about training).
There is a trans character in the game, but he/she isn't playable and their trans-ness is basically used as the reason they ran away from a cult community.
> Ellie is walking a dark path
> Your mind is working on a meme level
Did that really just happen?
user, you can't disregard someones viewpoint because you think it is in the wrong mindscape.
the only thing I am trying to get at is that I would like to see reasonable things happening to explain what is happening. You can even use the weirdest technobabble BS or magic or even going back in time to, hmm.
You know what, you just made me remember Red Dwarf S11E3. It is a complete crazy story of Brittish origin involving a space station, a DNA-rewriter and a really creative way to get Kidneys. But by the end of the episode you'll know why the elevator was being a total git at the start of it. All of it just clicks even if it is a crazy scifi max-crazy Brittish sitcom.
If only we had such levels of payoff in more modern things I would be happy.
But when I am not happy is when someone puts up a man made out of straw going "I have seen pregnant women with jackets on" when the point was that there just simply is no setup for what is going on in the media we are watching. There should be a meaningful transition from A to B else we might as well start cutting out the 2nd act to blockbuster video's.
Here is superhero, here is supervillain, supervillain is caught, superhero gets parade. Why was supervillain bad? Oh he lived in a volcano in the shape of a skull.
(Me)
Also, in rewatching the cutscene to check, I just realised the last thing Abby ever says to Owen is "get your priorities straight". Good advice that he didn't take.