Why don't people like Kingdom Hearts anymore?

money

>Too many spin-offs, people don't want to play 5 adjacent games to be caught up with a story
>Kingdom Hearts 3 took too long and isn't even a proper end to the franchise. Which is somethingpeople waited years to have.
>The story became even more complicated after BBS, and that is saying a lot for a franchise like Kingdom Hearts.
>Kingdom Hearts 3 story was just fanservice that brought popular characters back from the dead without caring about how it makes they original endings meaningless.
>Droped most of it's crossovers with other square Enix franchises to focus on OCs and Disney stuff, wasting most of it's original charm.
>Nomura is a hack.
Take your pick

>spin-offs
Kingdom Hearts has no spinoffs. Not a single one. They're all mainline games. Even MoM ends on a 20 or 30 minute ending cutscene that's a direct sequel to 3 and sets up Riku going to Shibuya.

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I don't care about that retards statements, he has the shittiest ideas and the game is omegatrash. He had the chance to make something touching/thoughtful and instead doubled down on the retarded stuff as if the playerbase has not gotten 15 years older, while having no actual "child like" feeling or trying to put you in the mindset you were back then at all. It asks while not trying, it's worthless, misses the mark so fucking hard. Fuck im rambling but you weebs are so fucking retarded for liking this trash grow the fuck up this game is a complete failure for the actual human beings that grew up with the OG game.

3 sold millions and 4 will too

still spin-offs.

>Kingdom Hearts has no spinoffs. Not a single one
Stop this meme. KH has spin-offs, being canon does not change that. Coded is a spin-off, Melody of Memory is a spin-off, the fucking phone games are spin-offs despite being massive lore dumps.

I'll never understand this about KH, not everything needs to be canon or important, the fucking JP only concerts had important lore details spinkled in them for fucks sakes.

KH III was that soulless, sure the series is about selling disney and se shit but III just felt like a big ad for the 3d disney movies, besides the combat just feels off and sure data fights etc, it is nice to have them but you just can't have a game where only like 10% or less of it is enjoyable.

Canon spin-offs are still spin-offsand the fact that square enix decided to play roullet with the consoles were those games would be played has only made the problem worse.
The fact that people bought a PS3 because of the hope of KH3 coming soon will awlways be funny to me.

>being canon does not change that
Being canon absolutely does change that. Batman Arkham Origins Blackgate is a side game but it's still canon to Batman Arkham Origins and still required to understand how the escape happened. Hell, if you want to talk about KH then there's no defined gameplay for any of the games because what followed 1 was CoM and after 2 you had Coded, BBS, 358/2, and DDD. There have been more Command Deck games than "mainline" combat systems at this point. You cannot say they're not mainline because they're outright required to understand 2 AND 3. If you go into 3 without having played at the bare minimum 358/2, BBS, 0.2, DDD, and watched a good portion of KHUX you will not understand anything happening nor any of the various discussions that take place during the game.

they pissed around with spinoffs for too long for people to keep caring about the story, and modern disney movies are trash so there's not even any worlds to look forward to.

It's genuinely crazy to me how this is one of the best ARPG series ever and most of the discussion is centered around the dog shit, uninteresting story.

why is it that most KH haters sound fucking unhinged? like this:

that means the gameplay isn't very good.

People talk about the gameplay all the time but the story is far more interesting because it's so ridiculous it's fun to follow and theorize about. Not to mention unless you're doing challenge runs it's very straightforward. The most you get is people complaining about Data battles or Yozora and that's pretty rare past when there's a new compilation release for a new system or when the DLC came out.

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you don't need to play any of that. story is dumb

It's not just the "end of the Darkseeker Sage" bullshit although that's part of it. My problem is that I don't know why it exists. At the end of KH2 everything was done. Sora wanted to go on an adventure. He did. Riku wanted to leave the island and later overcome his own darkness. He did. Kairi. Mickey wanted to figure out why worlds were disappearing. He did. Donald and Goofy wanted to find their missing king. They did. Ansem was dead. Xemnas was dead. The keyholes were locked. The door to darkness was sealed. The major threats were all dealt with and the story was over.

But we have to keep this trainwreck going somehow. If you ever wondered why KH3 was so backloaded, this is why. We have to save the Wayfinder trio...who were introduced in BBS. Xehanort didn't die when he was killed. As explained by Coded and 3D. Xehanort can fucking time travel! Thanks 3D. We need extra bodies for Roxas and Xion. Why does everyone even remember who Xion is? Days established that Xion does not and cannot have any role in the plot because no one is motivated by her death because no one even remembers her. Why did BBS have to invent an entirely new enemy type that would never be seen or heard from again until KH3? Especially when KH1 already established that especially dark people can control heatless? It's all just so fucking forced.

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>Being canon absolutely does change that
No it doesn't. You just admitted even the gameplay in the other non-numbered games aren't comparable to the numbered entries, gimmicks notwithstanding

The only exceptions to the rule being 358/2, BBS, 0.2, and to a lesser extent DDD

They're important spin-offs that they lock important lore details in for some reason, but spin-offs none the less

Cringe is the new edge so now you’re not allowed to like anything that isn’t approved by social media

Yeah bro you are a top mind here wasting your life on the internet and discord, consuming japanese crap. You are too young to even understand the appeal of KH1, just stick to the other thousands of japanese crap that is mass produced for geniuses like you. Actually end yourselves you incels.

The fact that you had to play 358/2, BBS, 0.2, DDD and a mobile game like KHUX to be able to understand the story and discuss about it did not helpd the franchise. Even the developers of the game knew that, this is why they made the KHUX cutscenes on KH3, because they knew expecting people to have played it was irrealistic.

kh3 was really really bad
and it ended on a cliffhanger too

Its an Epic Store exclusive meaning it doesn't exist

>aren't comparable to the numbered entries
Except I just showed to you that the Command Deck gameplay supersedes the ARPG gameplay meaning the numbered gameplay isn't the primary gameplay of the series, Command Deck gameplay is.
DDD literally continues from the ending of 2, introduces us to time travel, introduces us to Half Xehanorts, sets up Shibuya existing, introduces us to Riku and Sora taking the MoM test (and Sora failing), introduces us to the Realm of Sleep (Which is required for 3 to happen and Aqua to be saved), introduces us to Young Xehanort properly, and so on.

What exactly makes a mainline a mainline to you? The number? The gameplay? Then going from 2 to 3 should be no issue at all and flow perfectly because 2 is a sequel to 3 and the rest don't matter.

>this is why they made the KHUX cutscenes on KH3
KH3 didn't have any KHUX cutscenes. In fact, it has multiple scenes that make zero sense without the context of KHUX itself.
>Ephemera (Created Scala, but this was introduced after the game came out).
>Dead Keyblade Wielders helping you out and why they're even dead in the first place (You see them die in the Keyblade War and the ones that don't are Dream Eaters)
>Larxene and Marluxia's death speeches are complete cliffhangers without context (Elrena and Lauriam were looking for Strelitzia).
>Why Ventus is happy to see Chirithy as if he knows him let alone what Chirithy's deal is (The Chirithy is his from the Age of Fairytales).
>The entire Secret Report is about either Skuld or Ava and has zero relevance to 3 and the movie only has Skuld in it for like a minute.
>The Foretellers surviving the Keyblade War (In KHUX you just see them fighting).
>Luxu (Who has like one minute of screentime in the KHUX movie but like half an hour in the game) on top of his entire motivation (Which is to go against MoM because he doesn't trust him).
>Why in the hell Maleficent is even after the box (She was told by Darkness about it).

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There is nothing to be invested in anymore. Nomura kept adding more and more bullshit to the series. Not only was KH3 story a mess as a result, but he didn't add any closure. Now people have realized the series will be a constant cock tease with stupid ideas and maybe, just maybe, it will have something related to Disney or Final Fantasy instead of shitty Do Not Steals. Seeing this, people stopped caring. A smart writer would have just closed off their story and introduce a completely different cast for the next game if they ever want to do a 4. Instead, it's just plot hole and cock teases, so everyone has just checked out.

>KH3 didn't have any KHUX cutscenes. In fact, it has multiple scenes that make zero sense without the context of KHUX itself.
You are right i confused KH3 with "Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue". The HD remaster were a good atempt off giving new players a better understanding of the series but i don't know if it worked or if it omly added to the complexity of the franchise. Maybe it would have been better if it had never got to this point to begin with.

kingdom hearts was for millennial gamer girls. those girls don't game anymore and still remember it as their favorite game.

Sora got into Smash Bros. a few months ago and was the most popular character for the Smash Ballot. What the fuck are you talking about?

I will always adore this series and never felt let down by any entry, no matter how bullshit the stories were.

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gonna have to parrot the other anons. I pirated it and it runs very well with great mod support. Thanks timmy boy.

coprophile

Honestly the bullshit is part of the fun.

I think that the games are fun!

Saying "the commend deck" is the major fiber tissue in the series is really reaching when it's just a glorified menu opition.

And again being important to canon doesn't change anything

>The number? The gameplay?
Both ideally yes. '

> Then going from 2 to 3 should be no issue at all and flow perfectly because 2 is a sequel to 3 and the rest don't matter.
That's how it should be yes, but again Nomura and SE seem hellbent on doing everything in their power to defy that simple stance with making damn near everything KH touches canon

I really wouldn't suprise me if Smash Bro somehow ended up as canon somehow

Millennials grew up and realized every game past the first one was retarded, and even the first was basically just GameMasterAnthony's wet dream. The only people left are the ones who can unironically stomach Mickey jumping around like Yoda and screaming about darkness, which isn't even funny in a schlocky way - it's just pathetic. I'd rather walk in on my son sucking a dick than playing Kingdom Hearts.

Did anyone really like Kingdom Hearts? Or was it just KH2 was a fun game and everything else was just batshit insanity spread needlessly across multiple platforms with teases and threads that just lead to more teases and threads? At this point there's only the passengers on Nomura's wild ride and the crowd behind the rope laughing at them.

And I'm here for the batshit insanity all day

I still enjoy the ride even if I think nomura autism can get too much sometimes

>when it's just a glorified menu opition
It's a different gameplay system and used in more games at that.
>And again being important to canon doesn't change anything
Okay, then let's use a different example:
Are Assassin's Creed Brotherhood and Revelations mainline titles to Assassin's Creed? Keep in mind going from 2 to 3 doesn't require any of the knowledge set up in either game but the gameplay is the same and both the Modern Day story and past story explain a bunch of stuff talked about in 3. What about everything after 4 (Black Flag) when they dropped the numbers? They kept the same gameplay but that's about it. What about Liberations which was a game on Vita and not only crosses over with 3 but is talked about several times in Black Flag?

You haven't really set an example of what a spinoff is supposed to be. Anything not numbered? Then the story makes zero sense whatsoever. That would mean you then have to start deciding if DDD, BBS, and Days are mainlines or not because 2 to 3 is impossible without DDD and BBS when trying to follow the story. Is Ground Zeroes a mainline title of Metal Gear Solid? Are Pokemon Legends Arceus and Pokemon Let's Go mainline titles to Pokemon (Hint: They are)? Every single time Nomura talks about the games he never even calls them spinoffs, he calls them "sequels" as far as I can find from interviews.
>That's how it should be yes
Okay, but it isn't in KH. Every single game ever released for the series is not only canon to everything but outright required to understand the main story of the series. Anything you consider "Mainline" past 1 is highly up for debate because CoM is a direct sequel that KH2 literally starts from and is constantly talked about during the game, same goes for DDD, BBS, Days, and KHUX. The entirety of MoM's story is a direct continuation of Re:Mind.

>Yeah bro you are a top mind here wasting your life on the internet and discord, consuming japanese crap
Holy PROJECTION
Reminder that you are doing literally everything you just schizo ranted to that user about while ALSO being an unhinged projecting schizo
Seek medication immediately

They still do. But it's been three years since we've had a new non-phone game so the conversation has dried up.

What do you expect to get announced Sunday?

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A new gacha mobile game staring Yozora!

>Every single game ever released for the series is not only canon to everything but outright required to understand the main story of the series. Anything you consider "Mainline" past 1 is highly up for debate because CoM is a direct sequel that KH2 literally starts from and is constantly talked about during the game, same goes for DDD, BBS, Days, and KHUX. The entirety of MoM's story is a direct continuation of Re:Mind.
I argue that Recoded is completely unneeded. The gameplay is fun but the story is a wet fart. Sora Needs To Save Them!!! Yeah, we already know.

I agree as well since it really only explains Maleficent going after the Book of Prophecies. It does reveal something about Jiminy's Journal but outside of establishing Data Sora and Data Riku existing there's not much to it.

>It's a different gameplay system and used in more games at that.
But at it's core, it just allows you to alter your moveset, which isn't even really nessicary to finish the games most of the time.

>You haven't really set an example of what a spinoff is supposed to be. Anything not numbered?
I suppose that's the tricky part considering how wishy washy the term actually is.

Using those games' examples don't help your case, but then again each franchises' standard is different.

I'll concede what makes a spin-off in KH is muddy at the best times and you "could" make an argument for majority of the franchise being mainline for whatever that means, and MoM being the clearest example of a true spin-off

That said, that doesn't justify how literally fucking everything is important to the franchise's lore despite having no real reason to be.

Did Coded really need to be actually part of the story? What did DDD do that they couldn't have fit in KH3?

Oh no, we sure needed that BH6 world to take up space that could've been used fleshing out the characters, and Mickey and Three Musketeers needed to be told because of reasons.

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It's not even the end of the "Dark Seeker Saga," though. Even now, three years later, we STILL haven't gotten the full backstory of Xehanorbert since Dark Road or whatever the fuck ended prematurely and they haven't released the ending cinematics

i can see it honestly

Side tangent
Can people stop deluding themselves into thinking Verum Rex is an actual game SE is working on?

It was forshadowing of Quadratum with some cute references to Versus, and nothing else.

Where the fuck do you SE has the time to make another not!Versus XIII after their actual time they spent out slowly imploded on itself

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there are no fucking games to look foward to right now you fucking idiot of course no one is talking about it

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people are not expecting FFVersus13, they are expecting a KH game with a pseudo FF skin, think Dream Drop Distance but with Yozora as a protag.
They're going to absolutely do this 100%.

>Using those games' examples don't help your case, but then again each franchises' standard is different.
But they're on the same level. Ground Zeroes is a prequel to V but is somewhat needed to explain stuff in it. PLA and LGPE are both not even close to the mainline Pokemon formula but they're confirmed mainline titles by GF.
>What did DDD do that they couldn't have fit in KH3?
Like I said earlier:
>Establishes time travel and the rules of time travel.
>Establishes Half Xehanorts and Xehanort's plan to take over Sora as one of the 13 darknesses.
>Establishes the Realm of Sleep and why it matters.
You could have 3 have the Mark of Mastery test but it misses the rest of that and would require massive infodumps during 3.

How would Disney worlds fit into a game like that?

I am summoning the Stellafag record keepers bless this thread with your knowledge of Nomura's Grand Plan

It took too long for them to release kh3

3 wasn't as good as I was hoping and the Disney nostalgia won't work anymore because I barely watch any of the new stuff.

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they won't . Think TWEWY but with a kingdom hearts/ FF flair.

They are, it's called Quadratum
And that's even fucking stupider to think that, there are tons of reasons why SE wouldn't just make a new game on an functionally a new IP, espeically when there's three based on already established IP in the pipeline.

you could ask the same question about KH4 which takes place outside of KH's universe and thus, Disney.
Maybe they'll go explore Square worlds and Verum Rex would be the perfect way to test the waters.

Ok, so you like to eat shit so much that it affected your brain cells, but not all people are like that.

3 fucking sucked is why.

because kh3 is the got season 8 of kh and retroactively made people hate kh as a whole

You just flip the roles of FF and Disney in terms of content.
Worlds themed off of Final Fantasy stuff and cameo characters from Disney.
Just stick Oswald in Quadratium and have an evil corporation use an imprisoned Horned King as a darkness battery that kind of shit.

Because it's clearly a series that has aged like rotten milk in terms of story and characters, and Nomura is apparently believing that we're still in 2005 where emo and edgy things are cool.

and it's not even an end of the dark seeker saga because he literally made a fucking xehanort story focussed game right after kh3 came out and had xehanort in kh mom being villainous again despite that taking place AFTER kh3 remind

>and retroactively made people hate kh as a whole
Untrue, people still love 1, CoM, 2, and continued hating all the spinoffs that came after it.

Shouldn't try to sound smart if you can't tell apart between it's and its.

this copium again

>and had xehanort in kh mom being villainous again despite that taking place AFTER kh3 remind
It was just in Kairi's head, he's still dead, and all of Dark Road is just prequel stuff minus whoever the survivor is that we might see in KH4.

>Establishes time travel and the rules of time travel.
KH2 already kinda did that, you didn't need a whole game to rewrite how it worked
>Establishes Half Xehanorts and Xehanort's plan to take over Sora as one of the 13 darknesses.
Something that could've been really interesting if they save it for KH3
>Establishes the Realm of Sleep and why it matters.
Something that really didn't matter in said game, and only does at the very end of KH3 which introduces another concept of it entirely

Frankly all this highlights other issues KH has with its plot, which I don't have the energy for right now

>But they're on the same level. Ground Zeroes is a prequel to V but is somewhat needed to explain stuff in it. PLA and LGPE are both not even close to the mainline Pokemon formula but they're confirmed mainline titles by GF.
Again, each franchise is different. Ratchet and Clank Size-Matters isn't a "mainline" RC game, despite being functionally the same, Kirby Canvas Curse and Rainbow Curse are considered mainline despite being drasically different in terms of Kirby gameplay

Again, I concede more or less how you can make the argument for most of the games in the franchise being mainline

Honestly this just sounds awesome.
Going into SE's IPs with Disney cameos would be a great change of pace.
But I've long since abandoned hope for cool things so I bet we'll just get more of the same.

3 sales fell off a cliff after its launch period ended and its still at the 5m shipped figure it was at a week after launch because it had weak additional sales which led to a loss for SE

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KH1 was the only game to use the “Disney crossover” idea to its fullest potential and have the Disney stuff play an integral role in the plot. It’s a brilliant crossover game. The other KH games just leave you questioning the point of the Disney stuff since it ends up being pure filler for the most part.

Also, given how much the Frozen world in KH3 was ruined by corporate meddling, I think it would be heavily for Nomura to create some distance between him and Disney. It’s obvious in interviews that even Nomura hated the Frozen world.

barely anyone even played the dlc you retard
i guarantee you more people played fucking KH recoded on DS than have even touched kh3 remind

A lot of people didn't like 3
I thought it was alright personally, like I really enjoyed playing it. My biggest letdown with the story was the decision to keep on going with the Sora being separated from everyone shit. Like just end his story and let it be, if you want to continue Kingdom Hearts make a new main character and continue it with them.

Do you REALLY think Disney is gonna play second fiddle in a franchise they own a majority of the characters in?

What's more likely is Disney gonna want to push their live action shit

Kh3 took way too long to come out and the in between spin offs were not very good.

The best thing they could do is have Sora be “dead” and make Yozora the new MC. I’m sick of the cockteases— I want to see where they’re going with this Quadratum shit.

Personally I've been hoping for more SE stuff for years and gotten barely anything

Really at look at how deep their library goes and see all the characters/franchise they DON'T use

And don't even get me started on the mouse

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