How did Shu lose when they had the best strategist and administrator??
How did Shu lose when they had the best strategist and administrator??
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Dumb leader.
Touchdown_Liu_Bei.webm
They had Sima Yi?
Sima Yi was still scared of zhuge liang, literally jobbed to a fake wooden doll of him.
Sima Yi lost to a bluff because he believed in astrology. What an idiot. What a chuuni retard.
real talk, southwest china had less population and development than wei and wu, the more time that went by the more they'd be at a natural disadvantage. liu bei's hatred of wu when they needed to work together to take down wei made their fate inevitable. and the emporers the came after liu bei didn't give a shit about muh han dynasty and were more than happy to capitulate to wei in exchage for keeping their concubines and lavish lifestyles.
The fuck?
Liu Bei invasion of Wu was god tier and Wei did nothing to stop him
He lost because a veteran general for some reaspn forgot how to built a camp and for some reason Zhuge Liang didnt join him
AKA JOBBING
SHIY WRITING
He carried all that weight on his own and died of the stress. Shu Han was only possible with him.
The fuck?
Jiang Wei was winning then Liu Shan did anything in his power to destroy his efforts
shu never had the logistics to win, they could have stunning victories where they kill 3 enemies for every 1 they lost, and still get overwhelmed if wei has some breathing room, zhuge liang gets played up because china were big shufags when they wrote 3 kingdoms, they still call themselves han chinese to this day.
10,000 troops can't beat a million no matter how good your leadership is
I should have clarified maybe the establishment of Shu Han was only possible due to him. Jiang Wei got fucked over so hard and sadly Shu didn't respect him as much as Zhuge Liang.
Wu literallly submit after 5 minutes and they were all ready to kill Sun Quan and gave the Kingdomto Liu Bei since he just wanted to kill him not them.
Wu was just lucky nothing more
Without that victory a coup was inevitabel
He lost to a corpse.
*bells jingling in the distance*
>zhuge liang gets played up because china were big shufags when they wrote 3 kingdoms
Zhuge Liang's legend started to grow even during Jin, centuries before the novel was compiled. A lesser known factor is that Liang needed to be hyped up to explain why Sima Yi, posthumous founding Emperor, did so poorly against him.
He's our guy, right?
>Touchdown_Liu_Bei.webm
I would like to see this, if you don't mind?
>liu bei's hatred of wu
Why would Benevolence personified ever harbour such a petty emotion such as hatred?
t. have only played the games
more or less.
that too, the Sima's had to do their best to prop up who they faced and Cao Cao himself in order to justify their coup, which also resulted in those after Cao Cao getting belittled and fucked with in recordings.
the main thing you can take away is "The Sima's did everything wrong"
I wrote an Essay about him in college, fun stuff.
This is historically accurate
Becuase his best friends died becuase of them, if i'm not mistaken.
Because his first wars were failures but then he learn and was successful
Sadly you can't win if your boss want your total failure
Because Liu Bei set him up to fail with failure after failure and Zhuge Liang underestimated how much nepotism can fuck you over when actual political decisions needed to be made in the end. (half the court was his own personally picked friends/yes men)
Liang is the most overrated strategist in history and his portrayal is often exaggerated because of a Shu sympathizer like Luo Guanzhong retrospectively penning a fictional account of the era to make them out like doomed heroes instead of the corrupt cowards they actually were.
In real life Cao Cao and Wei were the actual heroes.
They had a very uneasy alliance, while planning Chi Bi, Sun Quan and Zhou Yu tried to have Liu Bei and/or Zhuge Liang assassinated. Shu also ignored the request to give Jing to Wu, by putting Guan Yu in charge of handling it. Which of course got Liu Bei's sworn brothers killed.
>best strategist
LMAO
>The only true Han Loyalist
read Romance
Wu backtabbed him to take the Jing province , after took it for no reason the killed Guan Yu and the ZHang Fei.
The second later Liu Bei declared war on them , they submit and proposed to gave to him the Jing province, the reason his brothers were killed to him.......
Imagine his rage in that moment
there actually isn't any historical records of Liu Shan getting touchdowned as a kid, and this was made up to make Liu Bei look like a hero to showcase how he cared more about talented men then his own family, which sure that didn't age well but its china.
Its good to remember that Jiang Wei was not Zhuge Liang's first choice to take over as Prime Minister, but the third, Fei Yan and Jiang Wan were first and second but they both died too early either from being assassinated at a party or illness.
Jiang Wei was very much not talented enough to be the PM but I can't be too hard on him because it wasn't a role he was trained for, he had to make do with the shit sandwich he was given.
Shame he's such a one shot wonder tho, he'd die shortly after this.
always happens you can't win when your leader is a retard
>iang Wei was very much not talented enough to be the PM but I can't be too hard
THE FUCK?
THE POSITION CHAPTER IN WHICH HE BTFO WEI BEST GENERAL?
was not a great general at the start but in the end was the greatest general left in China
He's underrated, I would say so is Zhang He who only got killed because of Sima Yi.
>which sure that didn't age well but its china.
Somewhat of a tangent, but there's an argument to be made that the famous story of Cao Cao killing his uncle and family was also a story that did not age well: the original version was probably supposed to be a story about Cao Cao being a good warrior.
The original story also doesn't exist, he never killed his uncle.
>ROTK and Nobunaga's Ambition kept their awesome looking characters across the board
>Nioh characters look amazing too
>meanwhile in DW and SW
What a shame.
so?
even if never happened still is the best way to explain what is Cao Cao
so put that scene was the best choice even if is fake
He would still be a not good PM as he couldn't tard wrangle Shu's court, which affected his military success. He is a talented general though.
>I may recognize you, but my arrow may not
You guys do realise ROTK is only very loosely based on real events right?
It's questionable some of the characters even existed, much less their feats. Although ZGL probably did, it's likely he was nowhere near as good as the stories made out.
yes but which faction had the best girls
But which of Zhang Liao's hats is the best?
Like Zhuge Liang
they lost for the same reason.
this is why Liu Bei is better than Zhuge, Zhuge was successfull only because Liu Bei gave to him the best man
how many generals ZHuge killed because failed at a single job?
Liu Bei would just make them feel so bad that in the next job would be successfull at 100%
LIAN SHI's MILKERS!
LMAO
IS BASED ON POPULAR STORIES SO 100% MORE ACCURATE THAN JING REPORTS
Because
>Kongming was a dickhead who rubbed everyone the wrong way
>Guan Yu was a fucking idiot and a dickhead
>Zhang Fei was a DRUNK idiot and a dickhead
>Liu Bei flew off the fucking handle like he always does and went directly against Kong Mings directions
>Liu Bei's son was an ineffective retard, probably from FOOTBALL! when he was a baby
literally the only thing holding Shu together was Pang Tong (who died early being too based to live) and Zhao Yun who pretty much everyone agree's was based as fuck and lived to a ripe old age before he maybe possibly died in the bath because his wife was retarded.
DECISIVE TANG VICTORY - the War
Every pre-Sima Yi western front commander gets underrated because historiography naturally plays them down in order to play up Sima Yi.
Cao Zhen is probably the biggest victim of this, due to the whole Cao Shuang thing, despite the fact that even with all the historiography down-playing him, what is preserved suggests that Cao Zhen did a far better job than Sima Yi did.
We have actual history records of the time period. I've never even read the novel, only the historiography.
let me reword that.
he wasn't trained or taught to be the PM, but he had to step up to the role due to the death of the previous ones that came before him, its pretty admirable that he manged to do as good as he did all things considered.
he just wasn't the first pick, which can be forgotten about.
yeah that didn't age well either, its one of those folk legends that you see recorded, but there never is any proof in those recordings beyond "just trust us bro" due to the strodinger's cat nature of it "oh he totally killed abunch of innocents by himself, no we have no witnesses to this and he's never confirmed it himself"
thats very much what was trying to say, Talented general but he was never meant to be involved with politics, which is an issue when the absolute state of the shu political court was a mess of nepotism lead by a Ruler who might've not been dropped on his head, but didn't have ambitions to take over the nation for sure.
Liu Bei is one of those figures thats more competent in history then in the books, funny how that works.
Almost every person in Romance is real. The only person who I think might not have ben real was Diao Chan.
only rivaled by zelensky himself
DW money mostly comes from fujo's and coomers buying cosmetics so they pander to their audience
Just read about this guy, holy shit what a fucking badass. Even his deathbed conversation with his son was awesome.
>Wu has Shun Shang Xiang
>Wei has Wang Yi
>Shu has Xingcai
I can't choose
>Pang Tong
Poor guy planned out the entire Shu invasion, had to take his leader's place, and was killed because of it.
Wu Canonically has the most of the great beauties with Lian Shi Milkers and the Qiao sisters and Sun Ren
based
death of guan yu
to quote liu bei
>Sun Quan slew my brother. Furthermore, Fu Shiren, Mi Fang, Pan Zhang, and Ma Zhong are on his side, all of whom I hate so much that I could eat their flesh with gusto and devour their relatives, whereby I should have my vengeance.
when zhuge liange warned him not to do it put personal matters before the empire
>What care I for myriads of square miles of territory as long as my brother is unavenged?
zhang fei gets assassinated by his men and they defect to wu shortly after, infuriating him even more. he stopped caring about restoring han, he just wanted revenge and would destroy everything they had accomplished to that point to get it.
>outwits Zhuge Liang six times in a row within the span of 20 days
this man deserves to be in every Musou title for that alone
>he just wasn't the first pick, which can be forgotten about.
because was too young and you can see the errors in his first campaing
HE TRUSTED THE MONGOLS
then he understand how war warked an noone could stop him....except Shan.
I just finished reading Romance a few days ago.
Is there a similar book/story that goes over the Sengoku period in Japan? Want to learn about Nobunaga now.
For me, it's Wu.
>hmm i think i will burn things
amazing
Most of the stories about Cao Cao were made up to villainize him
The stuff he DID do ironically gets glazed over. Like the time he got his eldest son, plus his bodyguard Dian Wei, both killed because he thought it cool to fuck the wife of a warlord he just killed after the surrender banquet in the house of the SON of that wife.
Said son reconsidered his life choices and roused the entire house guard to fucking kill him and Cao Cao had to ditch it out a window and escape on horseback and his son and Dian Wei died in the flight. Back home, Cao Cao's ACTUAL WIFE was so furious she left him to go be a hermit and he basically had to remarry.
Him burning the Naman Armored troops was fucking brutal.
Yes.
literally a CK2 player
It's just a bad shitpost
Yeah, that's not how the record of the Zhang Xiu story goes...
The story of Lü Boshe also appears in the extant historical records too, but it's set up in a way to portray Cao Cao as the good guy.
>Moves fast enough that just showing up is an ambush
>announces presence before he arrives
>scares the shit out of everyone
>charges into an ambush and dies despite knowing it's suicide
He reminds me of the TF2 Scout of ancient China.
>Zhuge Liang
>Strategist
Lmao
He was in charge of literally a single battle which went crazy poorly.
Zhuge Liang wasn't a strategist, he was an administrator. He ran things politically for the capital city mostly because Liu Bei was fairly incompetant.
>BUT HE WAS THE SLEEPING DRAGON MUH 3 VISITS
Zhuge Liang was a fucking farmer, he and his brother knew how to read and write so they shacked up with Liu Beis passing army and got quickly promoted when he did a pretty good administrative job.
You could also argue Shus downfall was largely his fault since he was trying to fuck over Liu Bei by having him execute his popular skilled stepson in favor of his really young biological son so Zhuge could rule as reagent after Liu Bei died.
Shu in general was a million times more interesting in history when it was a giant collection of petty assholes who sort of backstabbed and bullshitted their way into a country.
The Five Tiger Generals are especially funny since in history they fucking HATED each other and were pretty incompetent.
>a 40 years of war veteran forgot how to built a camp
AMAZING WRITING
>despite knowing it's a trap, Bittenfield charges..
It's a meme, all those character designs are from the same game.
>Zhuge Liang wasn't a strategist,
ahahahahahahhahahah
WU KEKS AT IT AGAIN
Cao An and Dian Wei were such chads.
Guan Xing wasn't real
Guan Suo wasn't real
Guan Yinping wasn't real
Bao Sannian wasn't real
Yueying wasn't real
The Qiao sisters weren't real
Hua Xiong wasn't some unstoppable slaughter general in Dong Zhuo's army killed by Guan Yu but some low ranking peom killed by Sun Jian
4>5>8>3>9>7>6
Only played 2 and the fighting game once
What battles did he lead user.
What battles were he even present for?
It was literally just the nanman campaign which was unbelievably botched.
yeap instead Mao Zedung was real and no one ever starced in China
ok call me when your failed nation will have real hsitorians instead of book burning fanatics
>The Five Tiger Generals are especially funny since in history they fucking HATED each other and were pretty incompetent.
not entirely true. Zhao Yun was based, and the characters of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei were basically swapped - Guan Yu was the drunk belligerent asshole and Zhang Fei was the proud taciturn one. Both of them got credit for a lot of shit done by other people like Sun Jian. Pang Tong was great fuck you
The Shu were basically mafioso's though yeah
>Guan Xing wasn't real
Yes he was. He's specifically mentioned in the records.
all 572 northen expeditions
the next one will succed my lord
5 TIGER GENERALS
so much based Liu Bei created his gang
Qiao sisters were real and Yueying was based off of a real person Lady Huang
He used to be so perfect, why did they commit to the cringe staff?
The "five tiger generals" title is made up.
But they did all have fairly lofty titles.
Ironically Wei Yan was the big intelligent motherfucker who was kind of single handedly holding Shu together for the longest time since he kept winning battles.
After Liu Bei died Zhuge NOPE killed him real fast however.
>hampered at every turn by the foolishness of (older) Liu Bei and Guan Yu, (every age) Zhang Fei
>Zilong is the only reliable warrior
>forced to deal with an even bigger fool in Ah Dou
>finally screwed over by heaven itself
Nice red herring faggot. I don't derive my sources from Mao nor do I derive them form some Shu-obsessed playwrite from the Ming Dynasty. Unless Chen Shou was somehow apart of chairman Mao's redguard and the great leap forward, which I doubt.