Describe the perfekt MMORPG

Just give me WotLK WoW with modern graphics and bam, perfect MMORPG.

black desert but with actual content beyond farming and fighting people for farming spots. life skillers have so much shit they can (horse training, food crafting, merchant selling with a ship) do but if you want to actually fight you either fuck around until world boss and hope for good loot or run around in circles finding the optimal rotation to kill things in one area so when your done monsters in the next area have respawn

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Not many but did Ultima until everquest launched. What do you disagree with.

It was fun and mainly was socially alive compared to now. but the age of information and change of mindset ruined everything about runescape for me. you just have to pull up the wiki and fellow some autistic min-max xp methods these days.

Something that cant exist, a big world with tons of mystery and adventure. But in the age of information spreading things are just too known, often datamines happen before patches are fully downloaded and servers are up. Its the reason to me why new MMOs are only really fun for like the first week there is this air of unknown mystery to them.

GW1

Man I keep coming back to black desert every other year just to get addicted for 2 months and drop it.
It has so much potential but they're just fucking around that potential instead of building on it
And still, that fucking dragon knight class is calling me again

We just need to reach a technological point where everything is streamed. That way people won't be able to just datamine everything.

Streaming games would solve that, there won't be dataminig at least

how does that make any sense

Sure. Several races are genocided by ancient evil so they all gather and escape the enemy to ancient land where they settle down and interract with hostile/friendly indigenous races and theres no currency so everyone have to do business with gather skills

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TERA but actually good

Make levelling slow as fuck, and the world fun to explore. MMOs should be about the journey, not the destination.
That's why modern MMOs suck. You reach max level far too quickly, and often times get baited into buying levelboosts and other shit. Then you're max level and all that's left to do is grind out the same timegated max level dungeons and raids before all that's left is idling in the main city.

Gotta ditch the “leveling treadmill to end game raid treadmill” model. Part of why games like Ragnarok Online and Final Fantasy XI have lasted as long as they have is because lower level gear still has use even at the cap, and there is no single “best” set. Make more shit useful, and actually bring back classes that depend on others - stop this everyone is self sufficient shit and actually encourage collaboration.

>perfect mmo
everyone goes back in time and has as much free time as when they were kids

gameplay: anything

If everything is encrypted and streamed directly from the game server to everyone's client then you can't access things to datamine them before you actually experience them in the game.

pvp is always cancer in mmo's though.
>My gear is better than your gear so I win :^)
>I brought more people than you did so I win :^)
>My nuke crit and yours didn't so I win :^)

Good real-time action combat instead of gay rotations would be a good start

Open world pvp tends to devolve very fast in MMOs to where it just ends up being 1-2 massive guilds which create their own mafia who wait to murder people the second they exist in places they can.

Check out the upcoming MMO called Throne and Liberty. It's supposedly gonna be Lineage + BDO. Global release at the end of 2022.

youtube.com/watch?v=dSTahTUVYao

People on the internet were just a different breed 20+ years ago. Not saying there weren't pedos and racists but it was different

The rise of the MMO in the '90s had nothing to do with widely available high-speed Internet, at least not in the United States. It's because more people had both home computers AND home Internet access at all. It didn't have to be high speed at all, and in fact very few places in the US had high-speed Internet.

I played MUDs and Ultima Online with a 14.4 Kbps modem, like many people (although I did upgrade all the way to a 56 Kbps modem). Even people with faster connections still had similar latency.

It really all came down to having any Internet access at all plus VGA graphics. MUDs just didn't appeal the same way.

Crap always got written down as soon as it came out back then. That's not the issue. It's how people are now. They want instant dopamine hits and to run on hamster wheels not an adventure.

Mabinogi but it doesnt look like it was made for the Dreamcast and fuck Nexon's monetization

I agree though I don't even think there has to be some major innovation in technology. The problem is simple, developers/publishers moved away from the focus of the MMO begin a social experience.

Of course, the gameplay is never going to be as engaging as a single player focused action game but it never had to be. If you ask 99% of people who played mmos between 1998 and 2010 what their best memories are it will involve personal friends or online friends, people laughing having fun usually involving an inside joke and finally taking some big health bar to zero and someone getting a cool drop.

Today, these games are designed to be endless hamster wheels where human interaction is totally optional or in some cases unavailable without a friend request. They want you focused on raising stat numbers and the potential for a negative interaction may effect a player's desire to spend more money.

Until a studio is BRAVE enough to simply emulate the design philosophies of old we will never have a fun mmo. No matter what technology changes.

Here me out, its got the music and story of FFXIV and the gameplay of FFXI.

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>Lineage
>action combat
this is too good to be true

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True but I think my point of them being tech demos still stands, I was just arguing games like wow hit the multi-million sub count because of how accessible they were. I wasn't ever really around for MUDs though.

Just give me FFXIV with ARR gameplay, at least for healers, and make some minor adjustments.
>Cleric stance is back so you need to plan ahead for heals and incoming damage
>Multiple damage spells to maintain
>Crossclass skills but improve them so that they allow you to adjust a loadout around group compositions rather than just having one "this is optimal in every situation" set
>Mechanically distinct spells like with lustrate healing a flat 30% of max health that allows more options for encounter design and has you think about which resources to use at a given time
>Remove tanking altogether, nobody likes doing it and healing without tanks is a ton of fun, and the mechanics around tanks are all dull shit like "only the tank can touch this orb" or "only the tank can take this incoming hit" and none of them require any thought or adaptation to solve.

Just make it so you don't reach level cap within weeks. MMOs are fun and comfy until you reach endgame, where they start feeling like a chore.
It fell apart when normie wagecucks got loud and started whining because "MUH ONLY HAVE 1 HOUR PER WEEK TO PLAY BUT I WANT THE SAME SHIT AS EVERYONE ELSE!!!!", so instead of autistically focussing on max level raids and epic gear and shit, just make the game actually fun to play and the world interesting to explore.

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Perfect MMO is any current MMO but single player

>BDO
what do you even mean by bdo

that doesnt look actiony at fucking all

All sounds neat, especially the last one. Taking on Zenos in Ala Mhigo as a Monk after the tank bit was the highlight of Stormblood for me.

VRWOW fucking when

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remove most buffs/debuffs/cc/etc from the holy trinity
have more support orientated classes

Sex

Ragnarok Online

Brother, you have spoken to my soul. I feel this in the core of my very being.

I’m not gonna pretend I’m old enough to have played EQ or Ultima but me being addicted to WoW day 1 was largely due to the availablility of Broadband internet

That novelty of going on an adventure with thousands of people in a persistent world while torrenting gigabytes of hentai and hardcore pornography as a horny, energetic teenager was something that couldn’t be described with words, and it’s a feeling that will never be replicated by any game ever again

FF14 but with less filler side quests and unlocking job skills earlier

Atleast they're giving more skills earlier in their upcoming patch

1000% this. You had to be there for the birth of the MMO. It was the new idea of having everyone, real people and not just npcs, in one virtual fantasy world. That was the biggest draw. When I was playing MMOs at that time, and for a large amount of people then, it was all about the experiences and not min/maxing the gameplay. People interacted way more especially at lower levels because it wasn't about rushing to the "end game". There wasn't really an "end game" at all, just the game itself.

Nowadays though, people rush to max level and its about having the perfect gear, the perfect build etc. WoW started that shit then guide users and esports tards cemented it.

I think that despite the novelty of playing with thousands of other people on your server being long gone, there's still a place and a want for MMOs with an emphasis on social elements.
Yeah you can get on twitter or discord or whatever and talk to people now, but you don't really care about them, that was never the point. You care about the guy that you camped with for 6 hours grinding on some stupid fucking birds, or the guy that helped you do some several hour long quest to get some new hat that gives you 1 more accuracy and 2 more strength, and it drives you to want to help him with some bullshit he needs too because the game is built around not being able to do anything alone and everything takes a very long time between travel, leveling, exploring, gearing, etc.
I don't know, I don't think the genre is dead necessarily, I think it's just missing subgenres within itself at the moment. I think games like WoW and XIV are totally fine and fulfilling their own niche as more seasonal MMOs where you hop on for a patch, play it until you're bored and then dip.
I think devs needs to just commit to making games for every niche audience and be happy with not having 10 million subs, because no game will ever pull that off again anyway and you drive away too many people by trying to catch everyone.

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I fail to see even a single drop of bdo there man

you're right, I misread your post. have a great day

But the experience of being camped and having to fight back isn't gone because it's lost its novelty, it's gone because they straight up removed it mechanically
WoW has flying mounts where if you can get away for about 3 seconds you're in the clear, xrealm, queues you can take from anywhere, phasing and warmode.
XIV just outright doesn't have world pvp to begin with. The devs ALLOWED players to avoid organic experiences like that.
Same thing for grouping for quests in the world, if you allow the quests to be a total fucking joke and add auto group systems players won't make friends
The problem is allowing non mmo players to continue to pollute the game because they spend money.

The devs said in an interview that it was gonna be fast-paced action combat gameplay and the consensus from Korea seems to be that it's gonna be BDO-like. We'll just have to wait and see.

EverQuest with some better combat and storytelling.

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it helped back then that you could use them for chatting, as there were few options for such back then that didn't just put you in a group of people with nothing in common

this

Runescape really is one of the few MMOs left that still maintains a more old school take on the genre. I like having no classes and having tons of non combat disciplines. That's what the genre need more of. Combat/bossing shouldn't be the sole focus of MMOs. They need more to feel alive.

>yt thumbnail
kys nigger

Check it
>No hard-focus on massive stat numbers and small incremental gear upgrades, make stats simple and gear meaningful.
>Drop cool-down based combat where you stand in place and fight wars of attrition, gameplay should be action-oriented with plenty of movement & active dodging.
>Have tons of different types of content scattered across the map, not just evenly spaced out enemies. I'm talking puzzles, minigames, jumping puzzles, races, minidungeons, world bosses, rare enemy spawns, etc. etc. A lot of it should be non-combat. Make exploration actually fun and rewarding.
>Player-driven economy, ability to build your own shops, houses, farms, guildhalls & strongholds. Give the player creative control, with plenty of decoration options, no pre-made building. Maybe even let the player design their own outfits & make paintings, player expression & creativity is incredibly important in games you want people to keep playing.
>co-op mechanics that goes beyond the DPS/Tank/Support system, let players combine attacks and abilities together in interesting ways. Not just doing a simple buff to raise your ally's attack power.
>Multiple high-risk/high-reward PvP areas on the regular map that hold rare & valuable loot. Maybe even have the loot take some time to gather so players are encouraged to build temporary strongholds within the PvP zone to protect their claim.
>Actually engaging crafting gameplay that isn't just XP-based. Maybe require you to build your own crafting area or feature some kind of minigame so that being the 'best smith' doesn't just mean you grinded for 500 hours to get max level.

>The problem is simple, developers/publishers moved away from the focus of the MMO begin a social experience.
true post
Modern games have moved away from both the MMO (massively multiplayer online) and RPG aspects of these games. Social aspects have been streamlined through automatic matchmaking, easy soloing, and downplaying the necessity of communication in every aspect of the game.
RPG aspects have been toned way down because devs don't want players to be able to fail. FFXIV is a great example of a game where you literally cannot pick the wrong gear because there's only two sets at any given level and they're both adequate.
Reviving the core social aspects as well as combatting datamining and reddit culture (posting guides for upvotes, removing competition) in some way are absolute keys.

the gameplay portions are 200% tab targeting just like lineage. they probably meant that it will have an hybrid mode like guild wars and ESO

>very low magic
>imagine lord of the rings movies
>if you know any magic at all you are basically a god so it's reserved for legendary lore characters
>light survival elements like eat/drink/rest/extreme weather conditions
>early medieval technology
>grunt gear is chain mail, basic open helmet, spear, broadsword, shield
>knights get chain mail, breastplate, plate helmet, shins, crows beak, flail, 1.5 handers and shield
>4 life paths(classes)
>deeply religious monk/nun(males can specialize into a priest or crusader, females the abbess)
>scoundrel(can specialize into a prostitute or bounty hunter)
>conscript(starts as grunt, can become a town guard or knight) - male only
>adventurer for hire(murder hobo and grave robber, get caught and it's your head)
>different life goals and story per path
>basic class trinity: monks and nuns offer spiritual support, conscripts are the front line, scoundrels and adventurers are of low moral character and looked down by society, everybody needs them, nobody would admit it)
>horses are a thing, if you can afford them, same as wagons
>no random loot, you pick a weapon and specialize with it(learning new moves)
>nuns and monks write chants and study scripture to improve their abilities
>quests are tailored to your life path
>monks and nuns are hired for philosophical tasks and advice
>scoundrels steal shit and spy, combat is rare
>conscripts do army shit like menial labor for their superiors and training
>adventurers have to hunt down contracts in the underworld
>dungeons, caves, ruins are a thing all over the world
>5 man party
>full collision so blocking a hallway /w shields is a valid strategy
>AAA visuals and animations

>dungeons and dragons in MMO format

simple

world of warcraft

the framerate

Guild Wars 1 was the best MMO ever made

Tab targeting gameplay is better than action combat
it allows deeper gameplay and healers aren't a mess to play

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classic ffxi

-Players take over roles that are usually given to bots, like traders and quest givers.
-No more of the farming and grindfests that often plague MMOs like a cancer. If it has to be added in, don't make it very long and boring.
-Multiple routes for player experimentation is a must and not to be discouraged. The world is built from the ground-up to allow for this. See: Deus Ex.
-Combat has to be engaging for the player. It is brutal, unforgiving and savage. Must be more risks for the parties that are involved.

GW1 was fucking amazing, but 9/10 of the backend systems were pretty bad for an actual MMO. It basically felt like a lobby-based game.

The "magic" in MMOs is gone, and it's never coming back until full dive VR or something similarly revolutionary for immersion. MAAAYBE if there was a way to make a randomized worlds per server, a procedurally generated and dynamic storyline, and also encrypt it to prevent data mining. Not even that would be guaranteed to work, because FOMO would incentivize people to only ever play on fresh servers or not play at all.

One where all guides are hunted down and systematically scrubbed from the internet 24/7

Yeah the only real way to save them is to cut them off from the rest of the internet. No video guides, addons or any of that shit to spoil the adventure.

Runescape 3 but diablo combat.

this meme is stupid

i remember reading guides for my games even going as far as forever

same, even when I played RO like 15 years ago we had iRO guides

this 100%

>It was the new idea of having everyone, real people and not just npcs, in one virtual fantasy world.

This is what mmo's are missing, I don't feel like I'm playing with people anymore, all interactions feel forced.

I remember logging and actually being allowed to say whatever I wanted, no censorship, had to work with players to accomplish goals, had to avoid player killers who were in turn hunted down by other players.

modern mmo's are a grind, a second job, they are retarded and so are the communities, it's all garbage now, the magic is gona

Reading is fine notice I didn't mention text guides. Video guides make things too exact and easy.

kys

the problem with mmos is that no one actually likes playing them. no other genre has people paying chinamen to play the game that they're already paying for so they don't have to.

Objectively correct but they feel boring as shit to play. Theres gotta be a mid ground between wow ffxiv tab targeting and bdo free flow action

My friend got banned from EverQuest by making a character named Hewhokills and shouting JEWS in east commonlands.
The whole "lol no censorship ever" meme is an invention of the modern era. Censorship is certainly overdone now but it's stupid to think it was the wild west before.

I miss ragnarok and nostale.. As a kid I'd always try 2d mmos with shitty graphics because my pc fucking sucked.

Nah you should. How about you stop wanting everything streamlined so you finish faster? MMOs aren't speed games.

This with a modern graphical overhaul

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You can say what you want there is no censorship.
>but I can't say kill niggers and fuck the jews!
Never could.

If it's just another Korean game isn't it going to have their trademark dogshit gearing system?

>(not $800+the cost of a modern gaming PC).
Quest 2 is only $300 and is stand alone.
And has the only actual VRMMO on the market right now.

CU Star Wars Galaxies. Pre-CU was way too fucking buggy and slow paced. NGE gutted everything that made the game great. CU had its issues but I feel like that was the sweet spot.

Korean MMOs were pretty fucking addictive back in 2004.
WoW peaked and only got worse with the years for obvious reasons.
XIV may seem like the top dog right now but It lacks real MMO qualities like a market board with weight to it.
The community is super passive aggressive because they know it's flawed and lacks freedom to choose how you want to approach the game.
Making a single player game and slapping online chatroom elements to it doesn't make it an MMO.
Lost Ark doesn't play like an MMO either, though.
The F2P model means YOU are the product.
You can see that with the monetization scheme forcing players who are serious about hitting end game to cough up the big bucks.

I'm personally looking forward to Flyff Universe that's releasing this year.
It's basically Flyff but brought back to it's roots when it was genuinely fun and didn't try to nickel and dime it's players out of fun.
Lots of QoL changes and sure it's a F2P too, but it's been in development long enough and they've shown their progress every step of the way.

Still the best

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Already been done.

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Twitch views don't mean a game is successful.
It just means it's being watched more by normies.
XIV has tons more players than WoW currently and more people watch WoW than XIV on twitch.
No wonder though, XIV is a fucking horrible game to stream. It sucks ass on many fronts.

tab targeting and action combat are not opposites

people seem to randomly flipflop between calling PSO2 and FFXIV MMOs and not MMOs why is that

True, but It has gotten way worse over the years.

XIV is just vrchat for people that can't afford VR rigs

PSO2 is not an MMO any more than Monster Hunter was ever an MMO.
It's basically the same lobby mechanics as PSPortable but no one would say those were MMOs.

PSO2 is an MMO in the same way that Destiny or Diablo 2 are MMOs and that's to say that it's not. It's a lobby game that may or may not have a giant chat hub.
FF14 people say isn't an mmo because 90% of your time you play until you beat the story is more akin to a visual novel than a MMO since youre just gong back and forth talkign to NPCs with a dungeon every couple hours to break things up.

I love how this stops right before the game gets worse.
Okay so you've finished the story and you've done the raids, now what?
Oh what's that? Eureka? Bozja? Golden saucer? Role-playing? Crafting?
Get the fuck out of here.
XIV lacks shit to do once you're done with the shitty shonen story.
You slog through a dogshit story and do the painful raids with the pathetic community only to find there's NOTHING fun to do.
But yes proceed to tell me how I must have never played the game, I've only done every one of these things to completion and found myself looking for something to actually have fun with, but the game lacks it.

Sure it does.

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To me mmo's have stagnated for three reasons.

1. All Modern MMO's are pay to progress. The individuals who have the most difficult obtain items / achievements typically gain so through excessive spending of some form. This makes those achievements value-less to other players.

2. Are data-mined and min-maxed. People don't experiment with content and what is best is "known".

3. Focus to much on combat focused content, and do not develop systems for players to interact with each other outside of combat.

To me the perfect MMO lacks currencies of any form. Something like only items used in crafting could be traded.

Contains some player based randomized content something like "you can never use fire magic, but can use water magics". This way what is "best" is based on you and not for everyone.

At least 33% of updates are focused on content which is not combat focused. Minigames, bard/music systems, improving guild systems etc..

Probably, yeah. I would assume it's gonna be like Lost Ark's gear honing.

That image is for FFXI idiot

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I would hope they don't make the mistake they made with the west release of nerfing honing rates/material gains compared to what Korea had at that stage in the game.

phantasy star online 2 episode 6 but less anime and with fewer horny manchildren

Because you don't want to do it doesn't mean there is "nothing to do". Eureka and Bozja and Raids/EX are really fun. I don't need to spend 80 hours a week on a game and they are fun when they drop.

This.
XIV is not a fucking MMO.
It lacks many of the MMO qualities.
The community is made up of fucking casuals though, so they eat it up and defend it despite the fact that it's shit.
Take it from someone who has learned every job, done all the role quests, and finished the story.
You're not missing much.
The game doesn't provide you with ANY freedom at all. Not even your fucking dialogue options deviate the story an inch.
The jobs all have a singular rotation and despite the simplicity of this, they just came out with patch notes displaying how fucking out of touch they are basically ruining already well-established jobs because they just felt like it.
Square Enix turns all it touches to shit.
Every remaster, every fucking soundtrack.
They are out of fucking touch.

Anytime a game is heavily instanced and there's only X amount of people allowed into each instance/zone/channel/whatever, then it ceases to be a true MMO to a lot of people.

>game crashing faster than New World
>"the best"
at once thing I guess lmao

Honestly if the game is to be combat focused, leveling and maybe even the concept of an economy need to completely disappear out of the equation.

Swords of Legends Online
>Entirely Free to Play
>Entirely void of any form of Pay to Win
>Cash shop is entirely cosmetics and name changes only
>Action combat with tab target option
>9 classes currently all with 2 different roles they can play (bard can be healer or dps, spearmaster can be melee dps or tank, etc)
>Loli race
>Player romance options
>Extensive housing system with its own progression system
>Extensive gathering/crafting systems with their own progression system
>Multiple ways to customize your character's abilities from passives, skill runes, role, soulforce, and obviously gear
>Music system similar to Mabinogi, Archeage, or Maplestory 2
>Multiple raids and dungeon difficulty tiers that reward better gear as your progress, there are also hidden bosses to find in dungeons
>No rolling on gear drops and no dupes ever, but no guaranteed drop
>Open world PvP, Arena PvP (both 10v10 and 3v3), specialized PvP zone with events
>PvP progression is entirely separate from PvE and has seasonal rewards for your rank such as exclusive cosmetics and titles
>Optional side activities like jump puzzles, treasure hunting, fishing, character stories,
>PvE options are raiding, dungeons, story mode, open world bosses, and hunts for solo and party play
>Weekly ranking boards for nearly every activity offering unique rewards
>Tons of emotes you can use as well as stickers for the chatbox, there's also speech bubbles
>Sitting restores your health faster
Why aren't you playing?

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>MMOs will become popular again
They've been more popular in recent years than ever. Everquest was around for years before it had, what, 300k subscribers at its pre-wow peak? Similar numbers for FFXI and a bit less for runners up like Star Wars Galaxies and Lineage 2? Then WoW comes along and outnumbers all of them combined in under a year. I miss when MMOs WEREN'T popular. An MMO with "only" 100k subscribers doesn't have to be a flop -- that's a healthy, sustainable userbase -- but after the huge success recent MMOs have had, anything under a million users at launch is considered a total failure. I hate it. Give me back my nice MMOs.

Thank you. People think hiding in instances dungeons and using an auction house is the real mmo experience now, it really isn't.

Literally just give me back early ArcheAge and I'd never stop playing it.

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> Wuxia
Eww

Meanwhile ESO is never mentioned at all

early archeage kills itself when sheep form mega-guilds and wolves die off

One that retains enough of a playerbase to comfortably support ongoing development despite the developers making additions for all types of players instead of only the lowest common denominator or only the sweatlords. Also the devs should never listen to the playerbase for ideas and keep doing their thing sticking to their vision while still also being able to retain said playerbase.

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bro its final fantasy. none of them had "freedom". for almost 40 years they have been linear.

God damn, Archeage was a good time in the beginning. It had some really great design choices. Being able to attack your own faction at the risk of imprisonment, forcing heinous outlaws into the pirate faction, the housing, the farming, the traderuns, etc, was the type of shit that so many modern MMOs are lacking.

Final fantasy XI with better graphics and black desert character creator/booba. Add jumping.

I played ESO during beta for ~20 hours. It was kind of fun but seemed like there wasn't much to do in the game other than just simple questing. Sure some quests had wonderous moments and cool twists. But I'd rather just play a single player RPG if that is all it offers.

this

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>XIV has tons more players than WoW currently
still not true. Both games (WoW and FFXIV) are currently dying. Shadowlands and Endwalker are horrible expansions. Both games never saw such a huge player drop.

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sounds less that you want a mmo and more that you want genshin impact or "social games"

but the nature of mmos are heavily instanced due to servers/blocks/phasing/sharding/etc technologies that make mmos possible in the first place. there is no true persistency in mmos.

WoTLK w/ the same amount of people that played classic would be good enough for me.

skill books
updates that can't be datamined
no subhumans

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EndWalker was fucking fastastic. FFXIV just has no launch content for "MMO junkies" who want something to play for 4 hours a day everyday. You always had to wait for x.2 for that kind of content.

Just don't minmax and enjoy the game dude
That's how I play and I have more fun than I ever did trying to play efficiently
Then again I'm f2p cause members is just too complicated for me and I don't like a lot of the convenience options members gets now like kourend slayer cave where everything feels so artificial

All MMORPG suck by design, because it's 50 hours of content stretched into 2000 hours of gameplay. If someone enjoys doing the same thing over and over for hundreds of times, it's not a preference. It's a mental disorder.

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kys skizo

Don't forget the ability to plant crops in all sorts of weird ass places of the maps, combined with the ability for other people to steal them, and then also the whole trial/court system. Fucking brilliant game design.

>EndWalker was fucking fastastic.
Believe this bullshit. Even light hentai vns like True Love had better written dialogues than Cringewalker.

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The problem with number 2 is that devs usually are so lazy that one stat/skill/strategy/weapon is leaps and bounds better than everything else and they never bother to correct it. Why would I want to be absolutely shit on by everything and not invited to parties when I can just use the meta and actually enjoy my experience? Reminds me of the loldrg days of FFXI.

Genshin impact is pretty alright, but is absolutely pay to progress, there is nothing you can do in that game that couldn't be done quicker if you paid. That and live services 4 player co-op games don't really provide any means to meet/interact people you've never met before.

At least 80% of those viewers were afk bots for the drops.

yes they are

>it allows for m1 spam gameplay and healers are even more braindead to play

>mixed reviews on steam
>678 people online
Nah I'm good.

Ragnarok Online but in 3D.

other players are the content
it can't get stale unless you are fighting the same 10 people over and over

very cringe wowg janny post

>find a way to remove all meta-faggots
>ban addons
>forcibly comfy and social
>free
>make each class have its own personality
>not ugly
there, that's it.

removed life skills

BDO’s pvp cured me of hating tab targeting.

Exactly this. I'm pretty certain that if compare MMOROG players and speed runners, you'd find a wide overlap because both require you to have high tolerance for mindless, repetitive, maximally efficient actions over an extended period of playing time.

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I think the whole problem of "I will never be invited to parties" is based on the view point that most of the content in the game is mostly combat focused and that people are frequently playing with random groups they want to be invited to.

I think part of the social design of the game should be almost forcing people to working with non-random groups. No LFG or party finders for example. You should want to work with the people to participate because you are enjoy playing with them not because they are "optimal". Of course this design would limit boss fights and design that would be "razor thin" balancing like WoWs Mythic raids, but I think 99% of players don't find that content worth putting the time into anyway.

I remember spending so much time lfp on drk and drg, then trying to make my own parties only to have everyone to say no unless I had a bard already.

Launch NA ArcheAge with a $13 sub and absolutely no other form of monetization, but with working anticheat.

When every game now has multiplayer and vastly superior gameplay, no one wants to play MMO thrash.
Literally anything else is better than this doomed genre

WoW managed to make it work in vanilla in 2004. As long as you stayed on the same continent it all had completely seamless transitions between zones and there were never any kind of channels/phasing/sharding. They also managed to cram like 2k people into the same zone during Ahn Qiraj gate opening(it was laggy as fuck, but still).

well you're never getting your dream monetization model because the real world doesn't work like that.

Notorious Monster hunting is a very similar experience to fishing in real life and games don't do it anymore because zoomies need everything fast and on demand.

2k people playing on a wow server is less people queueing for a single dungeon in ffxiv.

The problem with that is the game becomes unplayable for people who don’t treat it as a second job. It’s hard to build a tight-knit group when you don’t have time to devote to it. Eventually you’ll be kicked out by people with more time than you. At least party finders fix that issue.

Ok hear me out. It's an RPG... but with out the MMO part.

I never played wow you moron. Only FFXI and Aion.

This is only a problem in FFXIV if you are trying to do ultimate's, or literal parties listed for "Quick Farming".

.hack

What point are you trying to make? 2k people in the same zone in 2004 does not seem comparable to what you are mentioning.

oh god, it's even more cringe than a wowg janny

XIV 1.0 had a good nm system. They had faster respawns and better drop rates. XI had 10 hour spawns with 2% drop rates and 20 Gil sellers camping everything.

Why are XIV fags the worst part of the mmorpg community?

You make a singleplayer game that is enjoyable to play.
Then you figure out how to add multiplayer into that game.
If the gameplay is shit, I'm not playing it.

I was referring to XI. It was a huge problem in XI.

He means 2,000 people all in the same zone all actively competing each other for resources. The AQ40 event was hell. The most comparable things to this in FFXIV are Eureka and Bozja, which have a 144 player limit.

test

Single player game that lets friends drop in and out of content seamlessly

I like long lottery pops with bad rates. Hoo Mjuu made me so rich early on that I never needed gil again.

Monster hunter type combat but with a lot of people. Somehow we still can't do this because of hardware limitations, but mostly because some cunts can't cut back the graphics budget to do it.

>Bozja
One ugly map with 95% fates. Even FFXI looks better than bozja.

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Firstly I think you are assuming that it would take hundreds of hours to be able to get to the point to participate in the content. I think a more modern mmo would have ways for new players to participate with more experienced players.

Secondly if you are looking for any actually fun social interaction in game or not you need a sort of "tight-knit group" to do anything. Sports leagues, DnD groups, book clubs, etc.... If you are not willing to put effort into the people around you won't be getting anything out of it. I think you could design systems to promote people to want to invest in the people around them.

It was a one time thing of no lasting impact and it was fun as fuck. Server shat itself, but that was all. Hell, my ass.

You are now imagining layers of dozens of bots piling onto each other doing frame perfect greatsword charges and repositioning to one shot anything and everything

Endwalker was pure kino

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>set in a memorable map with lots of verticality, not just massive planes of boring fields, orchards, deserts, and snow with every city and town following the same generic circular layout
>every single item, from that wolf pelt you get at lv1 to the best in slot gear has substantial value, whether it's in regard to questing, crafting, gathering, or combat
>minimal cutscenes and instancing, most of the story is told through items descriptions, set design, and NPC interactions you have to actively look for
>classless, anyone can be anything but you have a set number of skill points you can use to establish your build

Yeah they phoned in the environment. But fuck if it wasn't the most fun I had playing FXIV. Some of the events were so much fun imo. I know I'm in the minority about that though lol.

that's just how generals are

The ones living rent free in your head are specially bad

Is that actually possible? Can't be easy to program a bot to recognize monster animations are every angle and if it's an actual mmo, not reading server side data.

>Some of the events were so much fun imo.
Just FATEs. Nothing special.

If it's truly Monster Hunter style visual cues would be important, and it's not like animations are done server side.

>OP asks to describe the perfect MMORPG
>people start bringing up FFHIV which isn't even an MMO but a session-based dungeon sim
what did they mean by this?

>>set in a memorable map with lots of verticality, not just massive planes of boring fields, orchards, deserts, and snow with every city and town following the same generic circular layout
>>every single item, from that wolf pelt you get at lv1 to the best in slot gear has substantial value, whether it's in regard to questing, crafting, gathering, or combat
>>minimal cutscenes and instancing, most of the story is told through items descriptions, set design, and NPC interactions you have to actively look for
Great
>classless, anyone can be anything but you have a set number of skill points you can use to establish your build
Bad, every one will just pick one optimized build and run with it.
Multiple classes that have multiple choices off builds is better, the optimization problem will still exist but it'll still force more variety due to class limitation.

Most were far better than "Just FATEs" doing that with a small group of ~8 people a lot of them were pretty much bosses. It plays a bit different when you have 100 people doing it.

But regardless the "Raid" type challenges were quite good and having to organize to get 1 team to kill the lion trainer guy during the fight was a good change of pace to most alliance raid type things.

>camping for hours to kill 1 mob
>shet drop rate
>slightly random spawn location of mob
>mob gets killed before you have a chance to hit it
Yeah sure, sounds like fun. Good riddance it doesn't happen in modern MMOs anymore.

>But regardless the "Raid" type challenges were quite good and having to organize to get 1 team to kill the lion trainer guy during the fight was a good change of pace to most alliance raid type things.
LotA before HW.

The genre isn't for you bro. Go play something like mario kart.

disagree

played Classic WoW and it was far better than I remembered from a game design standpoint,
tho I was also playing hunter/engineer which is by far the most engaging class/profession combo to level with

crafting useful consumables like stun bombs or decoys, trinkets with new abilities, unique gear/ammo for yourself
taking care of the pet, macroing it during combat, hunting for new pets to learn new pet skills
all skills like traps and AoEs that make positioning engaging in pve fights

all this in a world where enemies actually pose a threat, where you have to plan ahead how you engage with enemies
where you actually have to do money and resources management, decide what skills to learn or what crucial items to buy because you aren't showered with money
where you can't just fasttravel anywhere and you actually have to set up plans when you adventure out to be efficient
where leveling with a friend is very beneficial, where you can share resources for different useful professions

then I gave retail wow a try again out of curiosity, and it was an absolute braindead faceroll. Absolutely none of the things I wrote was present in the game anymore. Same with GW2, XIV and all other modern MMOs that only care about the very very late game raiding scene

I guess, but it's not like tailswipe.anim will always have the same timing no matter where you're positioned. And if a bot dodges fuckyoufirebreath.anim while in front of it, it has no idea WHERE to dodge. Like I said the amount of work to visually read animations and filter out background noise would probably be on par with making a game yourself. Yeah, we could probably get there, but holy shit that talent would be wasted.

You're right, now that I think about it even in simpler mmos I hardly ever hear about combat bots, and tab targeting combat is significantly less complex.

TERA 2: Elins Boogaloo

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>LotA
Actually a great fight. Still can lose it once in a while when no one knows to get eaten.

I really wish more fights did things like that.

LotA was the first 24 man raid.

Man Tera was so close to being a great game. They did so many things right, but so many others things wrong.

maplestory, elsword or wakfu without the payshop and the korean tier grind

a regular mmo but dailies are repeatables and the cash shop is deleted. oh but that wont make billions of dollars so oey vey shut it down, the goyim know too much.

I wish I'd gotten in when MMOs were good.

Still has the highest skill ceiling for PvE and PvP where a solo player can kill a boss a 5 player party with a healer wipes on, and least it was like that before all the new classes came out and balance across the board was ruined.

Oh yeah sorry was thinking of another one. Did you need split up to go in different directions before HW?

Only co-op I can think exists now is 4 people standing on the platform for other groups now.

Frankly I cannot even fathom an MMO that hits all my wants and needs anymore, that era is over and there's zero way to get it back. FFXI was my lifeblood as a teenager, but how the fuck are you going to regain that? Use magic to dial the internet back to the early web 2.0 days where social media was largely just MySpace and Facebook, which still required a college email address? It's too easy to disseminate information now, so mysteries are immediately discovered within 24 hours and posted all over the major hubs of the internet. And most of us are wagecucking nonstop because life is simply way more difficult than in the mid to late 00s, so a game that demands a lot of your time is less appealing. At least from a gameplay standpoint I can say what XI still does objectively better than XIV is the former will have boss encounters where certain jobs just are not very good. Fortunately in FF MMOs you can play every job so you simply need to switch to a different one, unlike in XIV where every goddamn job must be functional for every fight, so roles and mechanics get terribly homogenized.

>ncsoft

so it will get a western release 5 years from now and it will be ran by abunch of out of touch tranny cms who 'localize' all the korean flavor away and replace half the white characters with nigras

>You can solo fucking bosses
>Our quest system also requires you to grind like a motherfucker in the same small area for several hours
God, it was so fucking close but they didn't play their own fucking game from level 1.

>lock classes to races so lazy cunts only need to do animations for one race
If these gooks are going to phone it in that badly, I cannot be bothered to play their game.

I love oppressive RNG in MMOs. In Archeage, the absolute best of the best gear was player crafted with RNG suffixes. You needed a specific suffix to be able to upgrade an item to the next tier. It's been a while, but I think there were 12 suffixes and 5 tiers where the suffix was RNG, so that's like a

>horizontal leveling/upgrades
>dangerous world, only 2 mobs can kill you, forced to group up for elite quests
>buildings are built by players, if many buildings are in one location they are upgraded and you get a city with economy
>no gold, everything is item for item trade
>all items are victims of entropy, bread crumbles, cheese rots, mail rusts, you cannot amass insane wealth and are forced to reinvest back to the world or it's wasted
>player owned guilds have their own reputation with everything in the world based on how their players act
>reputation bar is divided into 1 2 3 based on actions, so if you are just stealing some supplies it cannnot drop below the 1st bar, however killing someone can drop reputation even from 3rd bar, same for good deeds in inverse
>all politics are based on these reputation relations and who is by default enemy to who, killing enemy of another guild can increase your reputation with said guild, etc.
>game master controlled faction to send NPCs to attack or even capture cities and then control them and create dynamic dangerous simulation of pvp with NPC faction

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just say it user. the average internet user in 2001 was either white or asian, and middle or upper class. The random nigga was also baseline middle class which means they didnt act like a nigger. We will never go back to that, and thats the problem. games are made to extract money from retards and women, and mmos arent any exception to this. So no more open world (actual sandbox) games where you made your own fun. Everything has to be dumbed down and presented to you as digital chores so you can be successful with very little effort. And the cash shop is waiting with open arms to take your life's savings in exchange for some basic QOL bullshit that was intentionally made hard specifically so youd pay not to deal with it.

Easy. A game that has a WoW expansion worth of content every 3 months and everything has a 100% drop rate. It has the sandboxiness of Valheim and the game mentally brainwashes players to play by the game's rules and participate in world pvp but never grief anyone.

Meanwhile in the real world I'll be laughing at all of you seriously entertaining this retarded ass question. Players are huge fucking faggots, MMOs are dead, players killed it. There is no going back, this is what you faggots deserve. Everyone neck yourselves.

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What's the appeal of that artist?

>horizontal leveling/upgrades
No mmo has done this so we don't know if this is a viable design for something supposed to be played for 100s and 1000s of hours
>dangerous world, only 2 mobs can kill you, forced to group up for elite quests
population death spiral as casual players can't play the game
>buildings are built by players, if many buildings are in one location they are upgraded and you get a city with economy
New World has shown this is an incredibly, incredibly bad idea without so many restriction player ownership is meaningless
>no gold, everything is item for item trade
Good or Bad. How much do you enjoy Path of Exiles economy?
>all items are victims of entropy, bread crumbles, cheese rots, mail rusts, you cannot amass insane wealth and are forced to reinvest back to the world or it's wasted
Absolutely disgusting from a data standpoint. Also liable to death spirals that leads to quitting the game.
>player faction bullshit
NOPE.jpg

ideas guy/10

this. i fucking hate this obsession with 'action' combat. These games basically just make every skill an untargeted aoe which looks really good in movies and advertisements but turns into a giant cluster fuck once more than 3 people are on the screen. It also means that the one or two single target classes (usually the ranged classes) end up being utter dog shit.

my nigger here knows what's up
mid/merlin best

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My dream MMO is Life is Feudal, except with devs that don't limit sieges and banditry to a 2 hour window once per week, and servers that can actually handle more than a dozen people pvping at once. What the FUCK were they thinking?

I think MMORPG is the genre with the biggest discrepancy between what the players want and what the developers make. There are a lot of other problems with MMOs being made these days and it's not the only genre where that discrepancy exists, but if I have to distill the genre's problem into one singular idea that would be it. That's why the hype and disappoint cycle is prevalent.

its called gw2 combat and is shit

I don't know why they have to limit tab targetting to 1 target at a time. The Secret World had a system where you could have 1 enemy target and 1 defensive target. It made playing healer a thousand times easier. They even had a leech heal class where your defensive target would be healed for a portion of the damage you dealt to your offensive target.

suffering.

It only appeals to people who aren’t fags.

Don’t try to become a game dev. Just stay at whatever job you have now.

Why would I want to spend 5000 hours on an MMORPG doing the same shit every day, when I could beat hundreds of other games in the same timespan? Hundreds of games with unique gameplay, stories, characters, setpieces? Do MMORPG players get some kind of rush from getting a rare drop after running the same dungeon for months? If so, they are just gambling addicts. Gambling away their time for the low chance of getting something good.

the game is streamed from a central server so that it's impossible to datamine, and then only release an offline client when the game hits end of life.

> the game is streamed from a central server so that it's impossible to datamine

You mean like Google Stadia?

>Man I keep coming back to black desert every other year just to get addicted for 2 months and drop it.
teach me your secrets. From what I've seen Black Desert rewards long time committed playing.

FFXIV but it is a harem simulator so I can impregnate every female NPC and Alphinaud.

Datamining is the least of mmorpgs problems. You can't stop wikis and youtube tutorials which are way worse a menace.

sandbox
>heavy TT RPG aspects
>coherent art style and progression
>equipment feeling special, handcrafted
>low fantasy art style
>down to earth questing, raids
>actual quests, as basic as it sounds, slay 3-4x, talk to NPC
>interesting NPC dialogues
>no chosen one or world ending plots
>many classes which might interact with each other
>classes shouldn't feel the same or be that balanced
>skill over ilvl
>unique gear like in wow classic and other older mmos instead of the wide spread tier system
>no savage variants, just harder bosses some won't be able to clear

FFXI had an endgame body piece that was viable for about 5 years. Hell, before the awful invention of item/gear levels, a few MMOs had very fuzzy progression, you had a bit of wiggle room. You could absolutely go further with this, but at this point gameplayfags would probably riot over not having a definitive gearset you must adhere to in high level content. Just goes to show the consumer base is the reason why MMOs are shit now.

Yeah exactly like stadia. MMOs are probably the only real time genre where input delay barely matters so I'll consider stream jank to be a non issue if it means dataminers can't just spoil games weeks in advanced every time an update drops.

Honestly an MMO is like the one thing I wish google actually tried to do with Stadia.

Being a gamedev is the same work as being a software engineer, except the pay and benefits are shittier, the work environments are more hostile, and you're under constant crunchtime. The business model is built around exploiting young kids' dreams. I don't know why anyone would ever take a corporate gamedev gig.

I don't know why an MMO hasn't merged tab targeting with slow and deliberate Souls-like combat.
It's theoretically simple, right?
A button to toggle whether you are blocking or not. A button to toggle whether you are doing rapid and light or infrequent and heavy attacks. A button to toggle an evasion state where you lose a set amount of stamina in exchange for avoiding most attacks for a brief period of time.
The importance of positioning is preserved from optimal weapon range, as precise positioning and hitboxes aren't viable for tab-target combat.
Most MMOs already have pseudo-poise with channeled skills. Just make that a mainline mechanic rather than something for a niche subset of skills.
Stamina and Poise management would add a new dynamic in addition to HP/Mana management.
Though I can see mass battles becoming a staggerfest clusterfuck like in New World.

Damn, makes me want to code a proof of concept for this.

>No mmo has done this so we don't know if this is a viable design for something supposed to be played for 100s and 1000s of hours
In my ideal MMORPG the world is wiped after a year or insert whatever arbitrary period. It is not meant to be persistent but more of a huge scale prolonged campaign in opposition to a single lobby game in a quickmatch of something like Cavalry.
>population death spiral as casual players can't play the game
You mean like vanilla WoW or Ragnarok Online? Both were popular for a decade before players got bored with them to death.
>Absolutely disgusting from a data standpoint. Also liable to death spirals that leads to quitting the game.
You are forced to keep going to dungeons or farm in the world with others to keep your armor at 100%. Everything else is either not important or can serve in making new items. Better yet if it's hidden from datamining if possible, players have to discover it and then after the world gets rerolled you also randomly reroll the time gates and item combinations so that it's always fresh + now someone else discovers that elixir that gives you not only +10% movement speed but also 20% jump height to boot and can leverage it in the economy. I am not against auction houses.
>player faction bullshit
>NOPE.jpg
What do you mean. Players should be the ones determining the politics by their own actions.

The question is my ideal MMORPG, not the most profitable MMORPG. If I had fuck you money, I would burn some money on this project no matter the outcome.

I liked playing older MMOs every day because you met with friends you made and figured out an adventure to have at least on the weekends. But now that communities are basically segregated to discord and the like, there's a lot less of a reason to log on often when there isn't new content to consume.

Reminds me of that FUCKIGN FERAL DRUID HAT in world of warcraft.

I can't show off my e-penis and PvP in singleplayer games. That's what MMOs are for.

It's literally just any successful recent MMO, can be Lost Ark for all I care.
But a secret Xi Jinping internet censorship algorithm makes it impossible to find any guides on "optimal" builds, rotations, dungeons, raids, farming etc. and people actually have to interact in the game world to figure our how to do shit and build knowledge individually.
Also any e-celeb that tries to stream it gets assasinated by CIA within exacly 7 minutes of booting the game on stream.

this before they fucked everything up

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ultima online but the world ends every six months and the first day of the next month is a FFA as everyone tries to snatch as much land as possible.

basically r/place but mmo I guess

Literally FFXI. Classic, not whatever faggy shit they're selling now.

wotlk or warhammer online.

The one that is a time machine back to when I was 10 and the internet didn’t totally suck

>Things in the past will never be popular again.

Classic marketing mistake. Never underestimate nostalgia or the old being new again. Hope you aren't hired in any business capacity because you must be costing them millions.

>Early 00's

WoW was at its peak in 2008-2009. That isn't early 00's. It's not that long ago at all, really. Final Fantasy now has millions of players and that's an MMO, too. You're just not making sense here. It's a popular genre worth playing, but struggling to find sustainability it needs. It needs a revolutionary title or an Everquest-esque immersive experience to invigorate it.

WH40k MMO where f2p players play as fodder units and people who subscribe for $100 a month get to play as space marine tier units

>>Early 00's
>WoW was at its peak in 2008-2009. That isn't early 00's.
No MMO has ever been remotely as successful as peak WoW, but that doesn't mean that there weren't MMOs which were considered successes outside of world of warcraft.

In WoW it was easily solvable with mouseover macros. You don't even need to have a target and can still cast freely to anyone by just hovering your mouse over their bar in your party UI or simply on their character. The same applies to enemy targeting, just hold mouse over their character while pressing the key, or you can have them targeted and mouse over their bar, or you can put them to focus and have insane amount of targetting flexibility available at all times.

You’re designing an MMO that would last maybe 3 months tops.

These aren’t special ideas no one’s ever thought of or attempted. You just haven’t heard of the attempts because they never succeed. New World had a lot of that “players must make their own faction politics” and it lasted maybe a month before everyone got bored of fighting over dirt just to color it a certain hue on the map. Life is Feudal did the same thing. Also died within a few months. The simple fact is that assuming players will make the game interesting for you and save you from giving people shit to do does not make for a game that maintains a player base. And without a player base, MMO’s stop being playable.

These ideas guy takes are the kind of thinking done by someone who doesn’t actually understand the logistics behind making a game work.

Having gone back recently, there really are some good quality of life enhancements that now make playing on a private classic server really exhausting. But being able to get on a mount at any time in the open field is fucking dumb and shouldn't be a thing. The ultimate test of a good person in the old days was if they had raise and would willingly lose their chocobo to raise someone they stumbled upon, now it's a no brainer.

Wipes are the fastest way to tell a playerbase not to play your game. MMO’s are built on progression.

I can't tell if you are joking about
Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade or if you are unaware that it existed at some point. It's such a shame how fast the development crumbled on that shit. It was meant to have been like Planetside, but every update was just downsizing everything and cutting features again and again and again.

They had toyed with the idea of forcing f2p players to play as orkz but afaik that idea didn't make it to release

This… might actually work. WH40k fans are notorious whales and fanboys, they are among the most consoomer types out there.
Selling a sub like that to stomp on f2p players might work if the f2p gameplay is fun enough for those to stick around. Kinda like Planetside.

i wouldn't do it with money, but i would like to see a game where servers have caps of certain classes.
like mages are typically supposed to be a rare thing, so maybe cap mage population at X% of the game's overall population(npcs). do shit like that, have some retardedly op classes to make up for it. all that good realistic shit.

Okay here is 1 way a modern MMORPG might be successful.

>Matt Mercer & Co announce Critical Role MMORPG
>multiple servers with server capacities similar to vanilla WoW
>each server gets a team of game masters that's in place to shape the story of the server
>able to hand out key pieces of information for quests or spawn hundreds of supplies for a siege on a whim
>cyclical nature of the story / world allow for a reset about every 6 months with character progression of some sort carrying over
Now this obviously hinges on the vetting process of the game masters, but I think going back to the RP and social part of MMORPGs is what's needed. Combine this with a big fanbase and tons of hype potential from the reddit fanbase of Critical Role and you get an MMORPG that just might succeed.

Riot's MMO will revive this dead genre

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>The simple fact is that assuming players will make the game interesting for you and save you from giving people shit to do does not make for a game that maintains a player base. And without a player base, MMO’s stop being playable.
That's why there would be NPC faction sacking down castles and capturing them or destroying them. In the end the goal is to wipe out the faction before it salts every fertile ground and destroys or captures the entire map. Can you destroy buildings in New World? Is each player created guild its own faction?

You wipe your state every time you win or lose a match in Counter Strike. This would be just a slow burner, something between eternal MMO and a single match battle arena.

>They've been more popular in recent years than ever. Everquest was around for years before it had, what, 300k subscribers at its pre-wow peak?
EQ peaked at 600k subscribers before WoW launched. Its content peak was 1999-2001 with the Ruins of Kunark and Velious expansions, usually you'll see these described as "Classic" EQ. Everything after Luclin fucked with the basic design document by making the world smaller and less community focused. The various portals to Luclin shrank the game world, prior to this you would either have to travel the continent by foot or pay a Wizard or Druid to teleport. No matter how shit their gear was, how fucked up and retarded these players were, a Wizard or Druid could make some scratch just by playing ferry. This forced reliance on other players made the world more vibrant. The market was actually manned by people selling shit and you could barter for goods. Luclin allowed it so you could turn into an NPC and go afk while selling goods in the bazaar. The Luclin expansion killed the community.

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i just want an mmo where people can make friends again instead of pressing a button and being assigned 4 random people they will never ever ever see again. For a hikkineet like me, video games are my only social interaction

Why would anyone play an MMO these days is beyond me.
It is an infinite cycle of repetitive shit.
Level until end game -> grind for x macguffins to do end game content -> do end game content -> pay for sub until next expansion (all f2p mmos are bad) -> repeat -> everything you did last expansion is now outdated and no longer useful.
Who the fuck would want to do this shit rather than playing a singleplayer game, or god forbid playing other multiplayer games with friends or randos?
If you are a functioning adult, you should not have time to play MMOs seriously.
Functioning adults have a job or school, have responsibilities after work/school, and don't have enough precious time to waste grinding,
so that when you beat the next MacGuffin you can grind again, in an endless cycle of mediocrity.

>wow guys! after doing dailies for the past 3 months I finally raised my ilvl enough to do raids!!!!
>oh man I've done this raid 10 gorillion times and I still haven't gotten the item I wanted! time to do it 10 more gorillion times!
>Gee! I am at the end of the expansion and i've finally got all the items I wanted!
>Huh? whats that? another expansion coming out with some boring story I really don't care about because I just like to see numbers and my catgirl#15234127435162's sexy armor I took 6 months to get
>Whatever! I guess i'll buy the next expansion AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Troons, do your family a favor and just end it now.
They don't want to see you suffer anymore.

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Life's an endless cycle of repetitive shit.

If nothing else MMOs should absolutely not be considered one giant amalgamated blob. Just like RPGs are segmented into various subgenres, there really needs to be MMOs that make it known early on if they're more catering to the MMO players who desire an emphasis on the social aspects of a living world, or the players who are all about endgame raiding and chasing that carrot on a stick from day 1. Because it is increasingly difficult to appease both sides, often you spread yourself too thin and appease no one.

>"modern".
All MMOs suck. They're designed to be a grind and keep you paying up.

>Can you destroy buildings in New World?
There was a similar device, crafting stations. They could be damaged and downgraded. Made the game practically unplayable if you got unlucky with the faction you choose
>Is each player created guild its own faction?
No, but the 3 faction system wasn't much better and each guild being its own faction only would have made the game worse
What you think is going to happen, isn't going to happen.
Here's what actually happens:
>A group of exploiters(and your game WILL have gamebreaking exploits on release) and sweatcore quickly grind to the endgame. The economy is ruined because of item duplications and exploits. This group of players ruin the game for everyone by leveraging their overwhelming resources (that are literally impossible to compete with because the exploits have been patched) to dominate anything that can be player owned. The economy is ruined again, twice now. Eventually a lot of the exploiters/sweatcore circles get bored and move on to another game, taking a bulk of the duplicated/exploited equipment and resources with them. But completely fucked prices and economy that they caused remain. The economy is ruined a 3rd time.
That's just your *hardcore* audience. The people you would otherwise rely on to keep your game afloat.

Then there's the groups who deliberately ruin shit just to troll the rest of the playerbase.

I liked Maplestory 2 so something like that but actually make it worth playing more than a week and no p2w ofc.

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You didn't grind chaos raids for months on end and do your skyfortress dailies everyday for reroll scrolls to get +14 piercing gear?

>Here's what actually happens:
So you are saying better do a lot of beta testing before going live? Or promptly deal with bugs and be willing to rollback if the server is ruined with exploits? I thought New World is beyond fucked because Amazon didn't give a fuck and didn't react quickly enough or did changes that were even worsening the problems.

Yes, exploits can ruin your game. That's not an argument for or against a system.

Most people would play IG as F2P and outnumber the paypigs and specifically target the large bulking space/chaos marines. People love IG, and they'd have to be nerfed so SMs don't get overwhelmed with lasfire which would make the whole game pointless. For example in the star wars movie battle multiplayer mod, a lot of us would always be the regular blaster clones/droids and would roam the map in death squads killing the insanely OP jedi simply because there was a lot of us and lightsaber niggers seethed saying we are ruining this duel game.

bdo is objectively a shitty jew cash grab but I still come back every time a new character releases because the pve is fun. Like a lite-musou

>describe the perfekt MMORPG
Everquest 2 :)

*saves the mmo genre*

your welcome

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>Whether it be a WoW/FF/EveruQuest clone or something truely unique, MMOs will never rise to the same level of prominence as they had UNLESS a new technology comes along for them to capitalize on. They are, in short, tech demos for whatever new novelty is next on the horizon.

i don't think mmorpgs can ever truly be good again, because they are horribly weighed down by their rabid fanbase that has accumulated a taste for these shit games. if you made a mmorpg with good gameplay, no predatory monetization or time-wasting grindy shit, the mmorpg fans would swarm the public discussions and cry about how they can't fetch bear asses for 3000 hours to have the biggest numbers and therefore be the most important player on the server. likewise, normies know to avoid mmorpgs because they know they're going to have the same awful shit mechanics they've had for the past 15 years.

if there ever is going to be a good mmorpg, it probably won't be marketed as such to avoid the stigma of a mmorpg.

I don't usually see it about EQ, but this whole "lack of tedium = no community" thing just isn't accurate. The EQ era at Luclin and post started to divide mostly because of other games (with WoW soon to come) and some other reasons, rather than "nobody enjoyed shit because it wasn't as tedious to get around the world therefore no community"., Hell this was still a game where the base gameloop required shit like camping a monster with a group for most classes (unable to solo) and that there was a huge amount of Luclin era content (key toSanctus Seru and enemies that were invincible unless you had difficult to create weapons that could harm them ).

So the portals and/or ability to bot to market didn't ruin the community. First the gameworld was getting larger itself and the use of portals from players were still useful overall (it wouldn't be until PoP had the Mansion, but it was a major risk for lower level travel and even worse for higher levelones to certain areas - if you had a player who could get you to X it would be faster and easier to tip them) and lets not forget the game needed to have some sort of auction system eventually. Since it didn't people literally spent hours of their playing time in the fucking East Commons just broadcasting their wares to the OOC channel. That isn't quality interaction, that's just tedium. Bringing in RagnarokOnline style "stand as a bot when you go offline and sell shit" was one thing, but they'd later polish this even better. It isn't exactly a high-value community interaction or anything.

There's so many people who assume that "tedium = good design/community" when its anything but true. In the same way that you could mostly revamp EQ's most annoying elements - corpses vanishing to nothing, XP LOSS to the point of delevel, hell levels and more and still have people enjoy the game, the same is true here. There's a lot more to discuss but the whole enforced tedium thing isn't worth it