I've been recently playing Astral Chain and enjoying the hell out of it (it's a really good game) but damn, the protagonist being silent is a bummer. I understand the concept behind it, it's supposed to be an avatar for the player to which I'm supposed to relate. The problem is that, like most games where the protagonist is silent, there are like one or two instances where it's implied your character is speaking and hundreds of other cases where someone speaks for you, like Navi in Ocarina of Time for example (spoilers for Astral Chain: why does Hal answer Jena when she's clearly speaking to the player?). So, instead of letting the player imagine their own dialogue (which I suppose is the goal here), all it does is make for weird interactions where other characters answer something clearly meant for the player character. This would be better if the games with silent protagonists were heavy on player chosen dialogue options, where I would be able to choose what to answer, even for unimportant bits. All in all, I understand the intent behind it but feel like it's counterproductive. I have no problem with it remaining a tradition in long running franchises like Zelda, but do we really need this for new IP?
Just to be clear, when I say silent protagonist, I don't just mean he isn't voiced. I mean he doesn't speak at all. No voice, no subtitles, nothing. He has no lines.
I think a good example of this is subnautica vs below zero.
Ian Cruz
>I have no problem with it remaining a tradition in long running franchises like Zelda, but do we really need this for new IP?
Yeah it’s fine. Use your imagination.
Sometimes you brick out and end up with a protagonist who sounds annoying or who doesn’t shut the fuck up during combat, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Remnant: From the Ashes are two games that come to mind. I’ve never been annoyed by a silent protagonist.
Austin Moore
No, the silent protagonist isn't outdated, you piece of shit. Some games should have it, while some shouldn't (for example, TES and Fallout.)
Eli Bailey
Silent protagonists are good for cRPGs. But fuck them in any other genre. Fuck them in JRPGs especially
Leo Hughes
depends on the genre an fps with a silent protagonist is totally fine/ideal
Logan Parker
Most of the build engine era FPS were so good because they had charismatic talking protagonists
Tyler Martinez
Yes, silent protagonists are fucking shit. It was a terrible meme that didn't work in the 80s/90s, but at least in those games you were just looking at tiny pixels.
Now it's full fucking retarded.
Play the latest Dragon Quest for example, because everything is fully animated you can't possibly miss how stupid it looks with your character just standing around staring silently as every conversation involves people talking around him. You can't even use the old excuse of "You're meant to insert the dialogue yourself!" because you can clearly see he's just standing there, he's not talking, he's not doing anything but staring gormlessly forward.
Since every piece of dialogue has to be written around the MC, it means that one of the other party members leads every single conversation and practically becomes the MC for the purposes of any discussion. In P4 Yosuke speaks for you the entire game, in P5 Ryuji/Morgana and then Makoto do ALL the talking while you just stand there contributing nothing to the discussion. And again in DQ11, most conversations are lead by Sylvando or Eriks, sometimes Veronica. Even back in the GC era, I remember playing Twilight Princess and feeling like I was Midna's sidekick, because she was the one that had all the conversation/discussion with everyone, and she was the one bantering with the final boss.
Silent protagonists are and always have been garbage, and the fact that they're still defended by autists is pathetic. Just look at GTA3, Claude felt so stupid and so out of place they've never had a silent protagonist since.
Elijah Morales
GTA Online and RD Online is so weird when the characters don't talk at all during cutscenes but merely nod.
Angel Kelly
>He doesn't freeman's mind his way through silent protag games with in-character internal-monologues to flesh out the silent-protag in the way that you perceive their character
Carter Fisher
It's worse in Astral Chain because there are 2 characters you can play as, and the one you don't pick becomes their own character WITH VOICE ACTING, while your choice is as silent as ever
Luke Ortiz
>DQ11 >Hero reunites with his father >Moving, sombre scene, the Hero has just saved him from his torment and set his soul free >"Is that really you?" His father asks in disbelief >Hero says nothing, mouth firmly shut as he stands still, not moving or reacting, no emotions in his eyes >"It really is!" Father repeats, moving closer and clasping his shoulders, talking about how happy/proud he is before finally passing on >Hero never says a word. His mouth is sealed shut, and he remains stock still, no reaction, no emotions.
Yeah. Silent protagonists are garbage.
Daniel Hughes
Dragon Age Origins did it well. The player character was silent which meant you could imagine their voice and delivery yet you still had a quite a lot of options in dialogues.
Bentley Bailey
That doesn't work in modern games because you can literally see them not saying anything or reacting as everyone around them moves, reacts, emotes etc
Lucas Garcia
>OLD BAD NEW GOOD
Dylan Nguyen
I like that in some cutscenes they almost begin to talk but get cut-off before they get to say anything, like they aren't mute but they just don't get any chance to say anything.
Tyler Peterson
>all these weebs ITT crying that they couldn't spout edgy one liners in their gay weeb adventure games Silent protagonists are meant for first person games only. Or at least, not for RPGs or adventure games. The fact that jap devs are too retarded to understand this simple fact doesn't make the whole concept moot.
Brandon Gonzalez
Then: >protags are silent because we dont have money for VA Now: >protags are silent because fake nostalgia nerds want to feel oldschool
If the guys behind your favorite game were making games today, with big funding, they wouldn't cast silent protagonists.
>Old could get away with Chrono not talking because it's just a bunch of barely animated pixels >New can't get away with Hero being silent because we can literally see him not saying anything, there's no "Insert the dialogue yourself!" argument to be made
Really makes you think
Austin Flores
That's why silent protagonists should be limited to a text-based RPG dialogue system which the camera doesn't present the player character's face. A system akin to the Fallouts and TESs.
I had no issue with any Fallout or TES game which used silent protagonists due to its implementation. An example of bad silent-protagonist system implementation is Dragon Age: Origin. Its camera would focus on the player character face, which was just awkward.
Samuel Stewart
Only an issue in games with excessive cutscenes in my opinion. And if you're going to use excessive cutscenes, you shouldn't be using a silent protag in the first place Literally only the devs fault if a silent protag is handled poorly Also usually works best in first person games
Michael Williams
No. It never will be. There is room for both silent protagonists and cringy reddit dialogue like The last of us/Red dead redemption/GTA games etc. The silent protag serves it's own purpose and is perfectly acceptable as some games strive to immerse the player into the game as if they were the protagonist, while other games like to force feed embarrassing stories and fanfiction tier writing. The point is, there is room for both genres in the industry.
Elijah Long
You are literally (yes, the textbook definition) a fucking disgusting subhuman cretin. Fuck off, you vile shit eating retard.
Owen Rodriguez
>Not being able to interpret body language and actions taken throughout the game
Get out of my fucking sight.
Matthew Foster
>Doomguy >Never says shit >Also has an actual character
Cooper Morales
Doomguy's character is entirely from the comics and memes, where he does say shit. His in-game character is, what, his facial expressions on the UI? All the other stuff is from comics and fan art.
Jonathan Parker
>the body language of a first person protag >the body language of a 20 pixel character >the body language of a a static image
Jason Turner
It's fine if done well. Wander from SotC doesn't need to speak (unless you count him calling the horse as such). Most games either have the MC talk very rarely and in text only (Dishonored) or have it implied (Dark Souls). The problem I find with a lot of JRPGs is that most of the time their mute boring MCs are also universally loved and have a harem of their own so it only helps to disconnect the player from the experience.
Jaxson Williams
unf
Brody James
>you still had a quite a lot of options in dialogues Key point.
Robert Young
Nah it's better than the protag being some whiny cockmuncher
Luke Turner
>Doomguy.
Also, does a character really need to speak in order to get across how they feel?
Brody Gomez
I vaguely recall Crono having more personality than the average silent protag because he emoted often. In places where the party is thinking about something he's also shown thinking, he gets hype when the party decides to change the future, when it's a somber/humourus moment his sprite also emotes accordingly. I haven't played a JRPG since Suikoden 5, but IIRC the Prince there was also done well as a silent protag.
I think a silent protagonist can be done well, but you have to make more of an effort to flesh out their character with facial expressions and body language.
Josiah Smith
>hundreds of other cases where someone speaks for you, like Navi in Ocarina of Time for example >Since every piece of dialogue has to be written around the MC, it means that one of the other party members leads every single conversation and practically becomes the MC for the purposes of any discussion This is the problem. Why have a silent protagonist if you're just going to give them a mouthpiece anyway? It defeats the purpose and just feels retarded.
Charles Robinson
Doomguy has NO CHARACTER, you mong. The doomguy you zoomers know is from memes and other meta media. Its not from the games, where he never did or said anything. He was literally just a grin on the UI.
Jackson Hall
I'm fine with totally silent protagonists but then half the time they make you pick a voice for combat grunts and commands. That just makes me more conscious of the fact that my character *can* talk but for some reason never does
>Actually has a really well developed character despite never saying anything. >Lets the actions he takes and choices he makes speak for him
Nathaniel Gray
Haven't played that, and I can't comment. I am not saying it can't be done, only that it wasn't done with Doom 1/2.
Leo Gonzalez
The reason why Doomguy/Doom Slayer and Wander work as silent protagonists is because the story revolves around action and agency. The intro in Doom 2016 speaks volumes about the Doom Slayer as a character with no dialogue and pure body language. In SotC, Wander's character shines through purely through his actions trying to resurrect his loved one.
When the story is more complex, philosophical, and/or cerebral is where a silent protag has the most difficulty shining through because the complexity of interactions is much higher. But you can totally create a single-minded protag like Doomguy that gives no fucks and they can still be compelling as a character.
Landon Hill
The silent protagonist is situational. If you're meant to self-insert, then keep them silent. Your crafting games, your custom-character rpgs, so on. But if you're going to give the character a face, a backstory, their own motivations, going to put them in conversations with other characters and then have the other characters chat away merrily to the silent protag's face, it's weird.
And historically, developers have had weird ideas what people will self-insert as. I can safely say I've never put myself in the shows of an SMT protagonist, or Doomguy, or Gordon Freeman, yet they keep their mouths stapled. Tradeoff is that you don't get Rhianna Pratchett constant terrible dialogue, but I'd say the tradeoff to that is just don't hire her.
There should be a game with silent internal monologue and one-liners or brief dialogue actually voiced. Stoic protagonist.
Dominic Price
Is it really stoicism if you are raging and whining internally, and just don't express it? I thought the end game of stoics is to literally not care, not to act as if they don't care.
Christian Young
The Strider reboot did this amazingly. Hiryu doesn't talk for hours, gives a single line when needed, then goes back to thinking about knives and bad platforming.
Bentley Kelly
The problem with Astral Chain is they're silent, but still grunt and nod in such a way that they might as well have them say short phrases instead. It's really jarring and done for no reason.
Luke Clark
youtube.com/watch?v=EtBATmGZCZs Always think of that one scene from Jay and Silent Bob where ones giving the other shit for the refusal to say anything, even the shortest phrases. >JUST FUCKING SAY IT
