MMORPG

Is there any hope for this genre?

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no. mmopg will never be good games because mmorpg players aren't interested in a good game. have you ever heard of a single person who played a mmo for the gameplay? sure someone might claim that they enjoy raiding or grinding mobs or whatever, but if there was a server bug and nothing would drop or give exp you can bet your ass even those people wouldn't even log in until it was fixed.

flirting as a togruta is the most fun i’ve ever had in an mmo

why the FUCK do no other mmos have good looking alien babes
>b-but cat girl
not gay sorry

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Isn't FFXIV doing super well?

yes, it's also about to get ps5/xbox next gen ports. the first mmo on next gen consoles that's also crossplatform.

To be honest in a normal RPG (western or japanese doesn't matter) that is NOT an MMO, if some random optional thing doesn't drop anything or give any benefit to me I'm going to not bother wasting time and resources (e.g. healing items) fighting it.

MMO-adjacent genres killed the MMORPG ages ago mate keep up.

Casualization has done a great deal of harm to the persistent world, sprawling MMORPG. At their core, old school MMORPGs were about two things
>social interaction
>character progression
Modern conveniences like automatic matchmaking, cross-server interaction, and every class being able to solo efficiently has killed social interaction. Character progression has been crippled by an overabundance of items (which is tied to instancing reducing competition for loot) and the stat formulas being too figured out and rigid. It's a bit counter intuitive, but most of the equipment in a game should be bad to mediocre. Perfectly distributed stats should be exceedingly rare, and gearing optimally with what you have available should be somewhat complex. The removal of stats like hit chance from games like WoW and FFXIV reduces complexity and makes items and gearing more boring.
It's a real shame, because while the actual combat encounters and production values in these games are better than ever, the core ideas of what makes an MMORPG stick in your brain have been destroyed.

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Why do people refuse to let these games go?

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Pantheon will save us

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>The removal of stats like hit chance from games like WoW and FFXIV reduces complexity
What is complex about "Meet minimum hit-chance/accuracy needed for current content, then slap on as much as good-stat as possible"?

No one thought Darkfall would save MMOs because no one was gonna play it except the PK crowd. They just hoped it would save "hardcore" players, but it was too late since WoW had a lock on the carebear market and PvP was ousted in every profitable MMO that has came out since.

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>The removal of stats like hit chance from games like WoW and FFXIV reduces complexity and makes items and gearing more boring.

Gonna stop you right there sport, the only thing ACC did in XIV at least was represent a mininum number, stat weights were already mathed out long before that, and the same would be true if you were to try and complicate stat distribution again

There will always be a mathmatically best build, and that will always be the build people will go and gear for, itemization in mmos comes down to numbers

he never actually played a good MMO with complex itemization like Anarchy Online or FFXI
>back in my day, hit chance in WoW murrrr
fucking poser wannabe cunt

Blue Protocol will save us

The only thing that made XI's gearing 'complex' was it told you fuck all about how the stats actually work. I don't think anyone figured out what the 'Magic Accuracy' stat even really did until about three years after CoP introduced it, because we didn't have enough gear with it to do any real tests with.

Hytale?

Not until they're brave enough to go beyond structuring their games on 20 year old click and mash numbers against each other like a budget RPG.
For being such a shit Fallout game, 76 did way more to push the envelope of what an MMO could be then anything else in the last decade.
I keep hearing about this Minecraft-like game with fugly art that's attempting to be what Trove wasn't, but I don't think they can pull it off.

riding home dying hope

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Yeah, Hytale.
Trove had such high potential to it, but the devs first decided to try and ape WoW's gear treadmill only to learn it was boring as shit so they replaced that with gems so now gear isn't as important but that doesn't fix the fact that the game is barren of content beyond cosmetics and crappy collectathon quests.

>Meet minimum
This is exactly my point. You are at +5 hit, the requirement to not miss for an encounter. You get a helmet drop that has greater stats than your current helmet, but your current helmet has +1 hit on it. In order to use your new helmet you must make up for it elsewhere, which you may not be able to do if you haven't gotten the appropriate drops.
This is unarguably more complex than just equipping the new item because accuracy does not exist.
FFXIV hasn't had anything resembling true complexity in equipment choices since they removed accessory choices for tanks, but the removal of accuracy was the final nail in the coffin. For it to actually have interesting gearing the game would need to introduce non-standard stat distribution (actually having equal item level pieces that do not have the same amount of Strength and Vitality and substats) and new stats.

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Yes, but I need to get off my lazy ass and make it. Vanilla WoW is nearly the perfect model for an MMO. Raiding ruined it.

Because they were fun

user the day the patch drops all the gear and their stats are datamined and BIS is found shortly afterwords, you're living in a fantasy world where autists don't figure shit out day one

MMORPGS are filled with I assume now with weirdo boomers and trannies.

Early 00's was where the community peaked and even if the game is incredible the community will be shit

pretty much, yeah

starting (mostly) in WOTLK, WoW sacrificed socialization and game immersion in the name of convenience

no more having to talk to other players to form a group, just click a button and the game will find a group for you, composed of random people from other servers who may as well just be NPCs because they sure as hell won't talk to you

no more having to travel to the dungeon, nope, the button also instantly teleports you to the dungeon, and when the dungeon is over, you get instantly teleported back to where you were

modern WoW is not an MMORPG, it's a 3rd person shooter lobby game with some very light RPG elements to it

Classic/TBC or nothing. well, WOTLK was good, but cross-realm dungeon finder was the final nail in the coffin

Do people really think the communitu holds a lot of power in these games? I mean, most of my play in mmos were all by myself with barely any human interaction.

Thats how it is now. Back in the day it was extremely social for the most part and people even traded socially via meetups. Now they are glorified singleplayer service games with auto pairing matchups and group dungeons with enemies so weak you can solo it while facetanking any and all minor and heavy hits.

list was probably made when only 1.0 was out and it was indeed dogshit

Given the circled games, this was before the reboot of XIV came out.

Your reply has nothing to do with my post. My point is not about figuring out what's best in a vacuum - though that's braindead in FFXIV as well - but rather while gearing up. Even just last expansion you'd get random drops, so during the gearing process it doesn't matter if something is part of a best in slot list if you don't have access to the other pieces required to make it work.
This is something any progression raider went through in FFXIV while accuracy was still around. I'm sure it's something classes that require certain speed breakpoints would still go through if gear distribution weren't totally sterilized now.

Familiarity is man's greatest wish. A man would rather suffer in a situation he knows rather than face a new, unknown situation.

I don't mind the division and that's mmorpg lite

While older games would have GMs ban you for spamming niggerfaggot and various forms of griefing, they didn't necessarily have to. A player's inability to kill even simple EXP mobs without assistance, smaller server sizes, and no cross-server play meant that you had a reputation to protect. If everyone on the server hates you or knows you're shit at the game you won't get anything accomplished.

The only MMORPGs that were ever worth playing was the holy quadrilogy of MMOs year 2002~2010.
>FFXI
>Runescape
>Ragnarok Online
>Eve Online

>that cutscene
fucking right in the feels
the worst is the cutscene just before it where Prische finds out she's mortal again and can feel emotions as a result, and she starts crying
Makes me cry like a little bitch every fucking time.

hell the fuck no. i dont know about wow but if you didnt experience vanilla eq and at least kunark you missed out and if you started playing them in the 2010s then holy fucking shit i feel sorry for you.

kek how old is this piece of shit image

>you're living in a fantasy world where autists don't figure shit out day one
that's just bad game design.
FFXI and Eve Online are well designed in such a way that you literally cant just magically figure shit out, you can't .dat mine and you cant calculate the "absolute best" ever.
I remember people thinking that casting protection spells of a certain element increased chance to HQ items when crafting.
I remember when ppl thought Thief getting the killing blow meant more treasure drops.
Hell I remember ppl thinking Charisma increased the effect of treasure hunter because some retard thought he noticed more drops when he was eyeballing shit over a few hundred runs over 2-3 years. FFXI and Eve have always been masterful in that EVERYTHING is speculation, trial and error.

If a game can be statistically and mathematically figured out the day an update comes out it's literally just piss poor lazy coding and game design.

Back in the day in most MMOs it was literally impossible to get exp past the first few lvls without private messaging 4-5 randoms, making a group and working together to kill shit.
If you exp'd around the same time every night you'd often end up in parties with some of the same people. if you did a good job people would pick you first if you were looking for a group.

Now it's "pay an extra $5 and you start with a max lvl character" in most games, and if not that you just press space bar to run to next soloable quest for xp, repeat until you're max lvl in a day or two.

>pic related is from XI, a game made in 2002.
>graphics look fucking great even in this day and age, aged like a fine wine

meanwhile FFXIV's only a few years old and looks like literal ass, bad lighting, shit textures and everything is shiny and reflective for literally no reason, even the dirt and mud.

Not until maybe 10 years from now if Rockstar makes a VR MMO.

Everything gets datamined so fast and everyone rushes so hard to obliterate content these days that MMOs can't sustain without a hook. That's why there's only 2 on the market. Not even a League of Legends or Witcher MMO would survive in this market.

A Fate MMO is the only thing that could possibly survive...but why would they when they make $2 billion a year on the 1 million a year in dev costs they have currently?

>I remember when ppl thought Thief getting the killing blow meant more treasure drops.
It did. The current devs even changed the system making note of that.

Last good one was Rift. It at least had random instances pop up where you could kill a boss with other people. Also it let you auto quest where you could join an random group and quest together. If you don't already have friends that play they suck. ESO is ok tho just because the combat is decent.

The genre is derelict. Every western game is trying to emulate World of Warcraft's 2004 success, and every eastern game is a copy-paste, soulless Korean money printer with plastic characters shilled for sex appeal to an insect market (KR/CN). There is little in between.

The only successful games I can think of are EVE and Runescape. Both doing their own thing. ESO has a lot of problems but it is a valiant attempt at creating its own niche.

What's weirdest to me about FFXI is that Seekers of Adoulin and Rhapsodies of Vana'diel were both good and were both made after the game "died."

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FFXI is such a good MMO. I'm playing on a private server right now and managed to get someone who was gonna help get my ass on the other side of the continent where everyone apparently trains. Unfortunately we ended up on a glitched boat and everyone died too, so we never made it, and I didn't think to link my location because I was under the impression that the person I was with could handle it, the boat wouldn't glitch, and that chances of an encounter were very rare. People in the voice chat mentioned it, but didn't make it out to be an issue. I got hit by an AoE from the monsters on the second floor while on the first. It was a 30 minute walk and I deleveled. I look forward to the 30m treck again, although I think it'll be faster since we can warp halfway there now.

I just want a persistent open-world MMORPG where warring player factions fight and politic over territory, resources, and belief, with players being able to spec into a multitude of careers with varying gameworld niches. I can't believe a game called "World of Warcraft" has nothing to fucking do with any of that. Fuck this theme park horseshit.

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Something something flower pot excuse, refuse to actually improve the engine over the seven years it's been out since the remake.

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Social interaction in-game has also been reduced due to the increased popularity of third party chat programs and stricter rules on what can get a player banned (or simply stricter enforcement).

You're forgetting
>Everquest next
>maplestory 2

Not unless they can make the gameplay feel less like an unpaid second job and more like an actual game with tests of skill instead of gear achieved through grinding (second job).

If I wanted to do something that felt bland and like work, I would just try to get more hours at current job or find a second job. I would also prefer to use my desire to collect resources for actual real life resources instead of virtual ones. Given the choice between a multiplayer game and a single player game, I choose single player. Given the choice between MMORPG and going outside to gather resources from the woods and abandoned mills, I'd choose the latter.

I bought ffxi cause its on sale and It is an AWESOME game. lots of people running around, game just feels super cool to explore and find random shit. A orc even dropped a spell for me after killing it. How sick is that?

Pretty much none have been a worthy successor to the potential Ultima Online promised, with perhaps the exception of Star Wars Galaxies. The genre deserves to die.

No

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Trove is the best MMO

>Bro just waste dev time committing to a perpetual arms race to continually obfuscate your code so dataminers figure things out in 2 days instead of 1
You're a fucking retard and there's a reason games don't function the way you want them to.

Modern servers are miles and miles more powerful than MMOs of yesteryear, yet they keep cramming more shit onto the client to easily mine vs. just grabbing it off the server on-demand.

I like ffxiv

But I know what you're saying, and I've grown tired of xiv after years of playing it.
I'm waiting for blue protocol.
If that one can't do it for me then I'm probably just going to give up on the genre as a whole, it looks pretty good though and it's a japan game not korean.

Jesus, how could GW2 be on this list? How stellar was the original Guild Wars? I never got a chance to play the original but a friend bought me GW2 and the game seemed like generic MMO shit. I had a Mesmer and the generic swordsman class for my characters and it was boring outside of a few unique ideas for Mesmer.

GW was a great game. A poor MMO, but a very great game. GW2 took pretty much everything unique and interesting about GW and ignored it to make something much more mainstream and generic.

In my opinion games like tabula rasa did it right, however NCSoft HATED that fucking game and wanted it fucking DEAD. The rest of those games, are dead, grindfests, horribly managed and killed on purpose, or just the same old grindy bullshit, and the MMO's that DO something different are killed off or just not played, because fuck you where's my grindbox and instant gratification? I hate kill X, fetch Y, go to Z games, fuck that shit. You can make an MMO just like any other fucking video game, why don't people get that shit? At least guild wars 2 did SOMETHING different in so much that it isn't just running back and forth like an idiot with quests, you can just do something in an area, not to mention random world events. That shit is fantastic. I think if you took everything that was great from every mmo, and all the shit that worked in regular games and RPGs, and put em into one game, you'd have it right

>At least guild wars 2 did SOMETHING different in so much that it isn't just running back and forth like an idiot with quests, you can just do something in an area, not to mention random world events.
Now I'm no expert since I only had a couple hundred hours in GW2 but that doesn't sound right.

Well we played the same fucking game so you tell me smart guy, where do I have it wrong?

>gw2
Even ff14 is doing better than that game.

>cross-server interaction
I don't see the issue with this, since what you want is a living breathing world, and it makes no sense making alternative ones today just because it was convenient in the early stages of MMORPG.

Well for one, the running back and forth for quests is definitely in the game.

He's right. GW2 has very few traditional MMO quests, tied mostly to the main story. There are instead hearts and events that fill each zone. Heart activities are generic "kill 50 wolves" but they usually have other options to complete, and they never clog up a quest log and basically just exist to reward you for doing events in the area. Events are somewhat dynamic and almost every map has an event chain based on success or failure of previous events. These events are things more like "kill this boss in 20 minutes" or "defend this area for 10 minutes"

No it isn't. You run around and do area quests. There's no talking to some fucking asshole, getting his quest, then running back to finish it. You go to an area and do it there Even in the living world there is BARELY and of that

ESO is the only MMO worth a fuck in 2020. Everything else is boring garbage grinds.

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>it isn't just running back and forth like an idiot with quests
but it was, people just ran in circles doing the same events over and over again

I like BDO because of the comfy life skills

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>ESO
>worth anything more than the gum under my shoe

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Ive heard the combat is great but the enemies are dumb as shit. I find ESO comfy as well, just questing and exploring for hours on end.

The game is called eve online.

If thats not enough, the game is called albion online

As much as I respect EVE Online, it's not for me. Really wish CCP would have gone through with that World of Darkness MMO but, like most of their projects, it got canned. Albion Online looks like mobileshit.

sbi's albion online is awesome if you like to steal other peoples items after you killed them.

> Graphics over gameplay
The MMO genre is truly dead

It's not about graphics, it's about it being mobileshit. It looks like it plays like your typical top-down phone game, or even a MOBA in some regards, and that's really not the gameplay I'm looking for personally. It's not enough to just have the PvP and economy focus I want, it has to be a gameplay loop I'll actually enjoy, and neither EVE or Albion offer that.

Like 10 years ago I played this pretty fun Koean MMO whose combat was built around combos. Anyone remember the name of that?
IIRC every single class had a combo meter that you built up with abilities

>GW2
>Saving anything
That rancid pile of dogshit does nothing but get worse and worse with every update.

Minecraft.

look mate, not that many people are willing to drop 150-200 bucks(assuming you didn't cheap out and went with standard edition) on game that already is buy to play just to acces all playable content.

Time for my daily 'how I miss ffxi post bros'. We need a new mmo to take a crack at being inspired by old school jrpgs.

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There was but everything is now WoW-like
Fuck WoW.

Atleast some diamonds exist like CoH

ive never seen a more true gif.

You forgot Wildstar

this image is a decade old