Defend mandatory grinding in JRPGS/RPGS. It is literally artificial lengthening of the game. It is never fun...

It's pretty damn easy to break the game - just use Eric.

For most games it isn't but for some it is. For example FF4DS in a no-augments you can reach the final dungeon around level 40 if you're really smart but almost every encounter will wipe you before you can move, and the final boss is basically unbeatable unless you grind to max level.

>fuse
>DDS

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Even without Eric, I can cheese the final boss.
>Veronica
>feed her MAG growths
>full magic bursts
>fill up her MP.
Final boss dies in about 3-4 turns.

level 40 erik is worthless in the final battle on harder monsters my dude. Harder monsters at a low level is about damage mitigation and strategy not spamming divide fatal flash like your normal-mode neoseeker guide told you to do

veronica learns magic burst at level 70 so you could auto-pilot the final boss at that point you retard

Got to the final chapter of radiant historia severely underleveled, cause you can skip basically every non-boss encounter after a certain point.
Final set of bosses though just dealt too much damage for what buffs/heals I had available.
Also out of party members gain as low as 0% exp, so you know that's cool too.

Developing a skill IRL is more interesting than a level number going up.

But on that note I have yet to play a JRPG where I had to GRIND unless I wanted to fight the super secret optional boss

It always takes me around 20 hours less than estimates like How Long To Beat say, or other players on forums tell me to finish most JRPGs. And I'm always underleveled. You just gotta be smart. Most retards do grind for 50 hours spamming attack because they're incapable of forming strategies.

true

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>NO!NO! THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO HAMD ME EVERYTHING ON A SILVER PLATTER

but the boss killed me once therefore i'm underleveld and need to grind to beat it!

>speedrunner complains his level is too low

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You almost never NEED to grind in rpgs.
You just fucking suck and/or being a sheep.

there hasn't been a single jRPG in the last 10 years that requires grinding. If you have to grind, you are trash

Don't know about wRPGs, I don't play RTwP shit and bethesda/CDPR games are piss easy even on the hardest difficulties

I've complained about mandatory grinding in this thread but radiant historia is a perfect example of a game that doesn't require any grinding. I avoided all non-mandatory fights and beat the game. The princess has a skill that blocks an attack and I think you can steal a couple items that give that buff to your entire party. Also you want to equip gear that buffs your stats rather than gear that increases attack. If you equip your team optimally and use all the items you have available you should be able to win.

>play FF
>have like a hundred cool moves and status effects
>none of them ever work unless they're used on the one enemy the game wants you to use them on meaning you can't really build your characters how you want
>grind
>attack
>heal

FF has not aged well.

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>It's literally NEVER mandatory

Never played 80s RPGs, huh?

Oh God, I remember that thread, because I'm in the picture there as having beaten it and Jesus Christ was that guy retarded.

Have you only played III and VIII?

>People saying you rarely need to grind in JRPGs

This is mostly true for games from around the mid to late 90s and onward as far as level grinding for the main story goes, but it's almost always required for post game content. Either level grinding and/or item/money/whatever grinding somewhere in the optional material. They've gotten a lot better about the main stories (so long as you don't get bored and start avoiding too many normal battles), but most still whip how the "How to design RPGs - 1985 edition" rulebook when it's time to design optional content.

I just stuck to OG party, didn't dink around with the others too much due out-of chapter characters getting no exp and prior to the final chapter the only time I felt i needed to swap someone in was the boss outside of the beast village. Particularly brought in rosche or w.e his name was.

Grinding is fun, it's why i play.

>mfw I ditched Erik as soon as I had Sylv, Rab, and Hendrik at my disposal
>steamrolled everything

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It's not a REAL SHEN MEGOOMY GAME

the only time I've ever been stuck on a battle in any jrpg was in some romhack. jrpgs barely take any thought and you should be ashamed if you struggle with them

what draconian settings

It depends how bad it is. Every jrpg I have played where I decided I was stuck and needed go grind required MAYBE an hour at most of killing trash mobs until I was strong enough. Honestly if you aren't enjoying the game enough to grind for an hour why are you playing at all? Fucking casuals man. Nobody cares if you don't like JRPGS. Go play something else if you can't be bothered to play the game fully.

Basically any Dragon Quest. In most games they even give you right away an item you can use to ATTRACT enemies in order to grind more.

>grinding in an SMT game
nice bait

Did you fight optional battles in the early stages? I'm surprised you managed to get through the game like that since I felt RH did a good job of making you switch up your team and tactics to overcome boss fights without grinding.

>It's literally NEVER mandatory
you fucks never played Breath of Fire 2

i think rune factory 4 does it really well.
You can change difficulties during the game, and you can make it as grindy as you want (hard/hell difficuulty) for a much slower progression/experience or as fast as you want it to be (easy/normal) without penalizing you for it.
pro-tip: you're supposed to pick hard/hell because grinding and numbers autism is the fun

You can tell in this thread who only plays casualshit JRPGs, probably only modern, by saying no JRPGs have mandatory grinding.

nigger I beat that shit as a kid

People who say that usually have only played the latest JRPGs and/or some FFs from 90s/early 2000s.

list them

Basically. Not too long ago I saw one guy saying he beat DQ 1 without grinding. It's always easy to catch the liars.

>NOT grinding in an SMT game
Its not level grinding and its not mandatory but getting demons with good skills requires you to negotiate and fuse a lot which also requires some money for compedium summoning and such, so there is some kind of grinding going on

>be shit at games
>EVERYONE WHO DIDN'T STRUGGLE LIKE ME IS LYING
You're the types of people who insist the entirety of Super Mario World is difficult simply because Tubular slapped your shit.

If I recall correctly yes, pretty sure there was only one or two side quests I had yet to finish at that point, and always went back tracked once I knew I had a way to get to a previously blocked off spot on the map. I'm also remembering the drunk knights being a pain due to how low level I was but didn't need to grind there, just had to get some items or something? I really enjoyed it honestly, just wish out of party members kept up better, or could be quickly caught up like in Suikoden II. Main reason I just stuck to the OG crew. The demi human girl was fun though when I did use her, forget why i didn't stick with her though.

You're just proving us right, you know. You literally can not beat Dragon Quest 1 without grinding unless you're playing the Japanese Famicom version and use one of the passwords that starts you out at a high level. Not that you'd have any idea what 80s RPGs play like.

It's not unreasonable to be level 17 by the time you get to dragon lord, which is high enough to beat him. If you're playing as time efficiently as possible and know where to go then it might be impossible, but if you play the game as intended you're going to end up being at the perfect level.

sounds like you're blinded by "levels", actually RH is one of the few games where you use every character in an optimal zero grinding playthrough. Despite being a lower level than your other characters princess is probably the best character whenever you have her on your team, goatgirl's traps are very strong in a lot of fights, and beastman does plenty of phys damage while also building up the combo meter big time. Only exception is rosche, he sucks without grinding.

grinding usually only seems mandatory in mmorpgs because there is always so much shit that is level gated, and you often don't get to play the best part of the game or real pvp until you've already done the grind to max level
That said, it really depends on what you mean by "grinding". I wouldn't consider fighting every encounter on my way through the story and side quests to be grinding, exactly, but even that is more than sufficient for levels and items in most rpgs. Single player games usually just give you an award or an achievement for people who grind out max level or a super rare drop. Not to mention that games usually become trivial and boring with all that secret stuff.
Anyway most games expect you to actually play them a bit instead of skipping all the combat and expecting to begrudgingly win the game

>you don't need to grind, you just have to fight a lot of optional battles and to increase your character's strength to a sufficient level
Refute this, Yea Forums. Name me ONE game that can't be beaten if you never grind and just fight lots of battles.

most rpgs have the problem where you end up over levelled just by doing all the side quests and not running from fights. I hate it when games are balanced around adhd retards at the expense of everyone else.

Doesn't Bravely Default require grinding jobs?

Probably, I honestly don't recall touching the beast dude much. I didn't feel compelled to try the other party members much since besides those 2 encounters I just had to change my approach.

Tons of rpgs can be beaten at level 1/minimum, and many many more would be theoretically betable if you could refrain from gaining experience. Examples: ff7, pokemon, etc.

What's the difference between "fighting a lot of optional battles" and "grinding"? I thought they were the same thing.

>mandatory grinding
nice oxymoron, shit for brains

Are you taking grinding for gold into account as "playing as intended"? Because it takes no time to get to new towns and dungeons in that game, but if you just zoom straight for them, you're going to get fucked when you cross a bridge and a scorpion smokes your ass because your level isn't high enough and your equipment isn't good enough. It's even fucking worse in the mobile/PS4/3DS version than the Famicom and SFC versions. They buffed the dragon and Dragonlord so you *need* to grind for them. I played the PS4 version since I got it free for beating DQ XI and when I fought the dragon at around level 12 I think, it creamed me. I said fuck it, loaded up the SFC version, and beat the dragon pretty easily at the same exact level with the same exact equipment.

I've never played a jrpg where it was necessary to grind to advance. That's always the players' choice

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>Defend mandatory grinding in JRPGS/RPGS.
why in God's name would we need to have this discussion? there are 4 scenarios where mandatory grinding actually happens.
>you're playing a game that is more than 23 years old
complaining about the mechanic is not going to magically reprogram these games
>you're playing some cheap RPG maker game
if this is the case, nobody cares except you and the 5 other people who bought it
>the game has some way to avoid fights and you used it too much and fell behind in levels
It's not the game's fault that you are a dumbass
>the game doesn't actually have mandatory grinding and you are just shit
this is the most likely source of your complaints, so I will now laugh at you

Now that I think of it, Darkest Dungeon had way more grinding than any RPG I've played

>I wouldn't consider fighting every encounter on my way through the story and side quests to be grinding,

I didn't but it's starting to feel like it the older I get. I started avoiding battles in act II of my second playthrough of DQ XI, but ended up okay anyway since hunting for a rare monster in the First Forest made me overleveled enough that I didn't need to worry much until act III.

optional battles meaning sidequest stuff (actual content) instead of just mindlessly grinding in a patch of grass.

Looks like you started late. Late 90s/early 2000s?

I like grinding in jRPGs. Its enjoyable toi me the same way ARPGS are though, I just like to see my character get gradually stronger and bigger numbers pop up. It could just be the autism

I dunno man what do you want me to say? You could beat the dragon lord at very low levels with minimal equipment in the nes version if you had good sleep and stop spell luck. No one gives a shit about the ps4 version

Why are JRPG fans so disingenuous? Am I the only honest one?

No. I never grind and I can beat any JRPG out there. If you think you've found a situation where it's impossible to progress without grinding you're wrong, since I could just fight some more optional battles and then win without grinding.
I'm sorry, I was just pretending to be retarded since I hear this line of nonsense quite frequently. You're right.

Only Dragon Quest and SMT have mandatory "grind" which is only for money. Because they start you off dirt poor and then you buy the first tier so a slime doesnt fucking anal rape you.

Well I'm just asking you a question. And the newer versions may be shit, but that they exist and force grinding already disproves the "You NEVER need to grind" people, although I doubt anyone who's actually familiar with older JRPGs take them seriously.

False, you just gotta glimmer skills and win the game. Can be beaten in less than 3 hours.

I did on mobile. It's literally not that hard. Kill the occasional metal slime on your journey, and don't act like a faggot when fighting Dragonlord and you're set. The only DQ game I grinded on was DQ 3 and thats because I wasn't satisfied with the classes I ended up with at first, which was a fault of my own.

>well below the recommended final boss level.
thats how it should be but sometimes games really bullshit you with 1hitkos. especially in something like persona where level number actually effects how much you damage you take/deal if the rest of stats stays the same.

>xenoblade chronicles
shit is level gated
>disgaea
dunno how the fuck can you avoid grinding

Stop running from many random encounters retard, and even if you need grind, you just need like two levels to reach the area level.

There is a reason of why people can do low level runs easy on SMT.

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>Kill the occasional metal slime on your journey

Uh huh. The "occasional" one, huh?

>romancing saga 2
seriously though I though SaGa was supposed to be the "anti-grind" jrpg series, someone tell me how to beat the final boss without any global levels above 10.

sometimes it’s fun

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sure if 1 of those 3 hours is dedicated to grinding
how do you win without grinding?

I don't know off hand what the differences are for the ps4 version but the any% time for dq1 sfc is way faster than the famicom version, so I'm sure it can be beaten in a similarly speedy fashion. No one cares if you spend 5 minutes grinding in a 1-2 hour run, btw. Semantically that means the game is grinding but for all intents and purposes I consider that grind so minimal that it counts as grind-free. You're the one getting autistic over splitting hairs. Obviously certain games require grinding to beat in the intended way, just look at wizardry for god's sake

JRPG fans are usually insecure autismos who feel they need to lie about their favorite genre in order to make it look better, or are so autistic that they can't tell grinding when they see it.

Note: I'm not saying level grinding is always required. As others have said, it's usually not required for main stories anymore, but there is almost always some fort of grinding somewhere in a JRPG, most people just write it off if it's for side content because for some reason, they think that bad design in side content is okay.

If you don't use metal slimes for anything except post-game grinding, then you're literally playing DQ wrong.

>Never played Angband

Disgaea

There is no mandatory grinding.

There is you skipping fights and then complaining that you're too low level to beat a boss. That's called stupidity, if you don't enjoy the gameplay then don't play it, if you enjoy the gameplay, then stop skipping fights.

I kill everything in sight and never have to grind unless I want to do a sidequest boss fight like for example The Fallen in The Last Remnant.

XB level walls aren't exactly hard to deal since game vomits you XP via quests.

Go ahead and do no grinding in Wizardry sans the evil wizard one.

Sure smells like beepzors in this thread.

here are the defenses:
1. 90% of the time (as in say Noctorne or some typical SMT game) grinding is only needed to compensate non-optimal play.
2. Grinding in itself is gameplay. A game having gameplay is completely normal.
3. Grinding gives you a sense of progression. It makes no sense from an immersion point of view that your hero suddenly goes from being trashed by the boss to being able to beat him just after some story events.
4. Grinding is unironically fun if the game has good combat system. Imagine complaining about PoE having grinding for example.

So you're saying you occasionally need to... grind? I'm glad we've come to an agreement.

>never fun
play disgaea

>Developing a skill IRL is more interesting than a level number going up.
No, it really isn't.

FFV

>post game content
Can you not read?

holy shit lmao

>Needing to grind in FFV
If you're bad at the game then sure.

>just do quests for xp. XD
>go get me X you fetch bitch
no you fucking nigger. fuck that noise.

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Well you're speaking in the most general terms possible to make your position sound good, so I can't really take you seriously. Yeah for some games and for some post-games you will need to grind or make other small optimizations in order to complete the content. Play the game is sometimes required. Typically however grinding is used by players to cover up excessively un-optimal play, which is essentially what this thread is about. It's not "bad design" you fucking autist especially considering we aren't even talking about any specific game.

This thread said defend grinding, not defend grinding in the story only. Like said, just because it's optional content doesn't make it bad design.

Unless you are fishing for some specific quest chains, you can clear ton of stuff just by doing normal progress.

I could beat the hardest boss in this game with whatever garbage party you currently have nigga, so bad fucking example

>I didn't but it's starting to feel like it the older I get
I'm 30 and this still doens't happen to me. Persona 5 was a fucking blast.

>DQ XI
Dragon Quest is shit so I guess that's why you got that issue.
>slow as balls game series
>never innovates
Shit series.

>showing level requirements in a game is a bad example

give me what you're smoking because that shit must be real good.

Yes, it really is.

People can beat Fire Emblem games even if the enemies are hacked to give 0 exp. It's pretty impressive how far good strategy and managing resources can get you in some games.

>game has instadeath move that can be used one bosses
>but grinding tho
but why tho. You literally take routes that advances the story as quickly as possible while trying to get everyone to glimmer the instadeath move which is easy to do because there are key bosses that create the perfect check for it.

If a Slime is raping you on SMT is not the problem of your gear you retarded mong.
If any monster is attacking you before you kill them it's because you're a dumbass.

>unique challenges
user, at that point people know the ins and out of the game.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure everyone is impressed over your weekend pottery lessons.

I'm a coder retard. Going from hello world to a stable income is satisfying yes

It's optional and you will reach that experience level without having to grind by just playing the game cunt.

In 99% of cases where you think you need to grind, you won't have to little bitch. Cite some fucking examples and I will prove your ass wrong GO

Jesus fucking christ.

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>Well you're speaking in the most general terms possible to make your position sound good, so I can't really take you seriously.

Not really, I'm just telling it like it is. I've played JRPGs for 25 years, and I'm one of the extremely rare fans who is not shy about speaking about the bad parts of the genre.

>Typically however grinding is used by players to cover up excessively un-optimal play,

Oh, so you mean I'm supposed to be able to take on Penance without Zanmato just by played through the game normally with no sphere grinding at all, despite the fact that you need a high luck stat and other high stats to stand a chance? If not, then you're saying that grinding for it is good design?

>coding
>skill
lmao

codemonkeys just copy paste shit from the internet or manuals, they don't make shit.

My point was that if you can beat the game without gaining literally a single point of exp then playing it normally should be beyond easy even if you don't know the game by heart.

I'll never understand the love Persona 3+ get. Well, I guess I understand it more than Xenoblade 2 being praised to the high heavens.

I think grinding is fun. I'll just listen to some relaxing music and walk around for a few hours. I don't think I need to defend my idea of fun :)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

STOP ENJOYING THINGS

The only JRPGs that required you to grind are all SNES/PS1 era.
There's not a single modern jrpg beside Disgaea that does it unless you want to 100%(Ateliers)

I'm not an edgy teen anymore, maybe that's why?

Also gameplay > atmosphere&graphics

It literally doesn't matter how the story of the game, the characters, the graphics, the music, or the atmosphere goes. If the gameplay is still the press-turn system then it's gonna be amazing.

Nocturne is still peak SMT game tho.

damn you sound so cool

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I never had to grind in IV-VI DS outside of postgame content.

Man, was it me or nocturne was one of the hardest JRPGs from the ps1 and ps2 era?

Rune factory

what difficulty were they playing on? easy?

Persona combat is really dull though once you get over how flashy it is. Also
>Persona
>Press-turn

Nocturne was the ultimate pleb filter of that era but if you know what you're doing it's pretty easy

People do 0% growths (or the closest thing to the game's equivalent) on the hardest difficulties all the time. There are even youtube videos of it.

>niggers unironically grind because they fucking suck at exploiting weaknesses, tactics, etc
Cry more, bitch boy

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>i'm taking a stance
Yes, very brave. If the only non-general example your 25 years of experience can provide is penance from FFX then that is actually an incredible personal testimonial to the lack of grinding in jrpgs. You, a self proclaimed expert with almost three decades of experience, when pressed, could only come up with an optional post game super boss from the international release of FFX, that less than 1% of players will ever see. Bravo man you made my point better than I ever could have.

>In 99% of cases where you think you need to grind

Most 80s RPGs, like Dragon Quest I-III (III is technically 90s, I know), Mother 1. Most superbosses like Penance in FF X, Disgaea, the old Wizardies and older Ultimas, etc.

Nocturne is piss easy soon as you start getting skills properly. AKA post matador.

It's only hard if you are a retard that don't fuse properly.

>I'm not an edgy teen anymore, maybe that's why?

I think you failed to comprehend the post.

>3+
>+

That means 3 and above. Currently, that means 3, 4, and 5.

It relaxes me to mindlessly grind for some time while having a drink and watching a show or movie

Why are you grinding in Digital Devil Saga of all games?

If definitely had a few FUCK YOUs in between. But I wouldn't say it's the hardest, there are way too many RPGs from the era to say.

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>once you get over how flashy it is.
When will that happen? I have been playing the series since Persona 3 came out.

>persona
>not press turn

DQ3 came out in '88 just as an fyi zoomer. You don't need to grind in DQ1-3 man, sorry. If you just fight the encounters you have during the game you'll get enough exp. The any%s for these game feature very small grinding sessions as proof of my claim. Wizardry and ultima aren't jrgps my nigga, and I already responded about the penance thing. It definitely qualifies as a

I'm not one of the tryhard "I can literally faceroll every RPG I play" guys that infest every one of these threads, but I didn't have much trouble with Nocturne, not even Matador. Though I played it when I was 25-26 and had already played 4-5 Megami Tensei games including the first Persona 1 and both 2s, so I had an idea of what I was doing.

Persona uses the one-more system which is a stripped press turn. You're making it very obvious you haven't played Nocturne and are only praising it to fit in.

i don't know what you're talking about but I know the final boss isn't vulnerable to an instant death move

sometimes you went down the wrong skill tree and need it for a boss fight.

an infamous one is Bat on the boat since you have to use Ciello and Gale

Unless rng really hates you, if he get constantly debuffed he going spam dekunda or dekaja.

The only DQ I ever grinded was III and IX but that's because I was fucking around with reclassing.

I beat DQ III with a Jester I never reclassed (was mostly toying with Cleric to Sage) by the way, so I essentially beat the game with only 3 party members while earning experience for 4 party members.

I used one example, and you weren't able to refute it. You instead tried to turn the arguement around and attack my skills, as people her are wont to do, instead of actually replying, hoping that I'd be too distracted to notice.

> that less than 1% of players will ever see

And you're even pulling the classic "Optional content doesn't' count".

>He needs to grind in FF games
>He never played smart enough with XIII trilogy gimmicks to poison the final bosses or play Tekken with menus

I actually got through that boss painstakingly and slowly but got around it because Argilla had Terra. Another thing about it IIRC is that Cielo was overleveled too so it wasn't as big of an issue.

I was expecting for someone to reply with Lakishmi honestly.

I do those runs, they are fun but some games require a lot of RNG abuse to make up for lower stats (e.g. FE12 H3&4)
Also it's usually the growth rates hacked to 0, not the exp, so you can still level up and get bonuses from promoting

Yeah, I definitely played Persona 3, loved it, and then completely ignored all the other titles with the SMT logo on them. Sounds completely logical.

What a dumbass lmao.

Also, both DDS 1 and Devil Summoner 1 were harder than Nocturne.

>DDS
Here's a video of someone beating the hidden super boss, Demi Fiend, on a run where he collected the minimum possible XP (ran from all non mandatory fights).

youtube.com/watch?v=pi4DoMXRNEc

I got it mixed up with FF III. Mixing up games dates does not a zoomer make, but you can say whatever makes you feel better.

>You don't need to grind in DQ1-3 man, sorry

Already went over DQ I, DQ II has notorious difficulty spikes in the cave to and land of Rhondarkia, and if you ever chance your job in DQ III, you have to grind as your character is knocked down to level 1.

>B-B-But Metal/Liquid Metal Slimes!

Are still grinding.

>Wizardry and ultima aren't jrgps my nigga

Re-read the OP, my nigga.

7th Saga. But I'm cherry picking, modern JRPGs don't require grinding at all.

This is complete autism. Can you really say you're playing the game at that point? You're running numbers.

I didn't say shit about your "skills" learn to fucking read lol. Obviously there are jrpgs where you need to grind for to complete content, it's called playing the game and it's part of the deal. Generally any complaint about grinding is directed at an instance of sub-optimal play. About 1% of the time or less this is not the case. Bringing up penance as your fucking go-to in 25 years of experience proves this point. There are lots of games where you CAN complete the optional content without grinding, and most older jrpgs don't even have any to speak of.

>mandatory grinding
What are games with this?
I've played quite a few JRPGs over the years, and I've never once found a single boss that made me question if I was underleveled.
To be fair I'm the type to give every location a good exploring, so maybe this is more an issue of people not being able to freely ignore all side content without having to catch up in other ways.

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Tons of optional post game bosses can be beaten under very extreme conditions so in general I would say your point doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

poisoning humanoid bosses is the ez cheese strat in most FF games

DDS is even easier than persona is because you can just spam low cost anti-element shields (which you can get all of within two hours of playing and swap in/our of your characters movelists when you need them) every single round to devour the press turns of anything that doesn't exclusively use phys (90% of the enemies) and there's no game over if the MC dies

any game with a level requirement.

MMOs and XBX are some examples

>because you can just spam low cost anti-element shields
What if you don't play like a fag and instead play like a normal human being?

Hey fags, I'm playing Bravely Default at the moment, how do I go along without grinding? I'm doing a minimal encounter run if possible. So far I have Monk Edea, White Mage Agnes, Black Mage Tiz, and Knight Ringabel.

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> Bringing up penance as your fucking go-to in 25 years of experience proves this point

It's the only one I brought up to you, not in general in this thread, but they either get ignored or people try to say "That doesn't count". Look at .

You need to get autistic enough with your skills and magic. And yes, is still anti-grind because grinding by itself never really makes your party strong, a couple of proficiency levels without good techs or magic is useless.

>Damn, this fight beat me, what should I do?
>Should I try some other strategy, or should I just grind until I can faceroll them using the same basic bitch tactics I was using previously, wasting a bunch of my time.

something about jrpgs specifically causes many people to become retarded. Nobody plays an FPS and, when using the starting gun stops working, they just continue to use it until they get so good at aiming that they don't need anything else. they just use a different fuckign gun

If you're fighting in the most brainlet way possible of just hitting the attack button and hoping that your numbers are bigger than the enemies DDS is still easier than nocturne because the enemies are easier and there's no game over if the main character dies

Could have fooled me since you don't even know what press turn is
megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Turn_Press

Yeah, no.

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Link me a video or tell me what skills/magic you need to use in order to beat the final boss without any global levels above 10, I have thought about it and I cannot see any possible way to win.

that's a 360 game dumbass

Isn't that a 360 game though?

>using wikis
Next you're going to send me to a reddit board to teach me something.

Nobody cares if the main characters dies bro, the game was still harder because you couldn't fuse your way away from hard enemies.

>DQ1
You're wrong man as previously discussed.
>DQ2
The cave is required content to get through and you will get enough experience on your way through that you won't have to grind.
>DQ3
Don't reclass then retard, and even then you can reclass one person and still get them enough EXP without grinding due to how stats work with reclassing.
>wizardry and ultima
I know wizardry 1 is really grindy but that game is insane. I really don't have the knowledge to comment on the others because I'm talking about jrpgs, fuck the OP. However if your entire generalization hinges on one or two games then it's not very strong and should be discarded. :)

Jokes on you dipshit I'm both people. Are you the >butbutbut dq4 on ps4!!! guy? LMAO No one else is responding to you, and you have the general impression of being ignored, because your position is spurious, untenable, and blatantly stupid

It's a PS4 game actually.

>causes
They were already retarded, the JRPG just make them glow for all of us to see.

The joke is actually on you since you're replying to both of my posts.

>Next you're going to send me to a reddit board to teach me something.
Well why not, you'd be right at home

>haha i was just pretending to be retarded
yikes

What is grinding to you? Is going from point a to point b and fighting random battles on the way grinding? Is it doing any non mandatory fights? In games in which enemies are out of the field, is it engaging enemies/monsters at all?

You only need Dimensional Break, Reverse Delta and Hasten Time. You just have Reverse Delta proc off of Guardian.

I love disgaea so much, favorite game series

I've never played a JRPG that required me to grind besides the NES Dragon Quests (1 especially).

I have played 1, 2, and currently playing 3.

So far
2 > 1 > 3

When does 3 gets good? I'm at the part where I'm unlocking the doctor's heart.

you cannot learn hasten time with global level 10, you need at least water global level 26. and even if you had it, at global level 10 you would not have enough mp to kill the final boss that way

Quick rundown on OP’s system?

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To a degree but:
>Some people think challenge runs like that are fun
>It still illustrates that if you know what you're doing you don't need to grind at all in DDS

Why you bringing up global levels, its a speedrun. You just have someone spam water magic during boss battles.

Digital Devil Saga has a skill tree system so sometimes you have to grind to get the skills you need to win fights.

Plus it has a system that rewards hitting weaknesses and resisting/immunity against their attacks by giving you more actions and reduce their actions.

someone hasn't played crystalis
That game doesnt even let you deal damage to the boss if you are a single level under where you should be

because this thread is about GRINDING and you need to grind to increase those levels
yes, that hour of killing dragons in your speedrun is GRINDING

Trying to take on hard side content and bosses, the grinding definitely helps. Most JRPGs main stories are easy enough outside of certain bosses.

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when are any of those considered grinding?

I think I was playing SMTIV and read a guide for some reason and the recommended levels or fights were about 10 levels past what I was, some games I can see grinding being a thing but you can just git gud, in megaman x command mission using items you find in the dungeons will be enough for any trouble bosses.

>tfw a friend once complained about having to grind in Chrono Cross.
>A game where you only level up when you defeat a boss.

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>Here's a video of someone beating the hidden super boss, Demi Fiend, on a run where he collected the minimum possible XP
>Has 99 vit and magic
Okay

>because this thread is about GRINDING
And? Im replying to the original poster about needing to be high level, when that is not the case

In the context of a casual run the same strategy can be employed without any specific instanced of grinding. Brainlet

>You're not beating the final boss if your skill levels aren't in the upper teens
>Im replying to the original poster about needing to be high level, when that is not the case
>you need at least water global level 26
you should be able to solve this

Says he used boosting items in the video description

This is also bonus content after his whole series beating the rest of the game at the minimum level

I dont think any of those are grinding, imo grinding is when you stop yourself and stay in the same place or go back in order to repeat battles or do events more than once to get the rewards because you need them in order to move forward.

>26
>Upper teens

you get some minor stat growths after fights.

Plus material drops

I'm at the final boss of Conception Plus and he literally one shots all of my star children. I'm forced to grind to level them up.

I shouldn't be able to kill all of the previous bosses first try and make it to the final boss just to not be able to beat him because he does too much damage. The previous bosses should have been harder so that I'd have leveled more. But it wasn't necessary. To counter this I thought I should use a buff to my defense or magic defense. Well, it doesn't matter because he outspeeds turn one so I still have to grind to get speed stat up. Amazing.

alright you got me
The secret to beating RS2 without grinding: get to a super high level to boost your stats and unlock overpowered spells

agreed

>half the global is super high
Pfft

funny enough FF7 has alot of status that works

It's too powerful sometimes, FF6 has a mini boss you could confuse and if you did he would just attack himself until he died.

It's a double edged sword really, have all these cool moves that trivialize the game, or have all these cool moves that don't work on bosses.

>RPG
>only gameplay is combat
Lmao at your adventure games with shitty combat

>artificial lengthening
I believe the word you're looking for is "padding"

Why would anyone even complain about Vesperia grinding when you can just leave it running overnight BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE spamming on auto

Isn't DDS supposed to be one of the easier SMT games?

I always find that I can beat the boss at a given level, but the boss usually kills one member of the party due to bad luck or not having enough resources to go around and this usually prompts me to go and grind for a bit so they can all survive and I don't have to pray that the RNG doesn't fuck me over.

DQ4 has been like that for a while now, where I can take out a boss but he might kill one member of the party and they lose out on the massive EXP gain.

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>they lose out on the massive EXP gain

don't care if I can easilty defeat boss I will restart the fight even if I win if someone is dead

xenoblade series has the best exploration of any RPG series

>fuse retard
is that how you came to be in this current state?

>DS

thats why

this exact reason is why i can't play EO games

In FF12, there are bosses that are vulnerable to confusion. If you get the sword that inflicts confuse on hit and only let that character attack, you can get the boss stuck in really funny loops where you hit it, inflicting confusion, then the boss hits itself, snapping it out of confusion, then you hit it again. It's not necessarily the most efficient way at clearing certain battles, but it's pretty fun to see it play out.

>Defend mandatory grinding in JRPGS/RPGS
It's fun and I enjoy it.

Most people like playing the game instead of not playing it.

I can count the number of JRPGs I needed to grind in on one hand.

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welp, hope i saved earlier