ITT: flawed gems

I honestly like it when games have flawed design, it gives the game some life and soul. A lot of big budget games and too many indie games focus way too much on following "game design theory" and the game is just so fucking bland because it feels like it was made on a factory line to appeal to the broadest audience possible.

Like said there are very clear goals for you to work towards if you just need a direction to walk in, however the sense of exploration is one of the best parts of the game in my opinion. If traveling the world looking for secret passages, new powers, interesting NPCs and locales and hidden bosses isn't fun for you then this might just not be your genre.

You might be retarded.

This isn't true at all, dude. People who have been hating JRPGs, for example, have always disliked them. It's just that they got more vocal about it since they got validation by someone who is an authoritive figure on it.

You're an actual idiot if you don't think E-celeb culture influences how the public perceives media.

I just admitted that it does, but not in the way you're proposing it to be.

>WHY?!
>WHY WONT THIS FUCKING VIDEO GAME HOLD MY FUCKING HAND?!

>Octopath
Its such a tasteless mush of nothing, i won't speak for the combat system but the story and characters suck ass

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It's not a matter of people "being more vocal". Normies who have most likely never played a game beyond Skyrim and Mario will watch Dunkey's video and come away with the conclusion that JRPGs are bad. Again, human beings aren't rational. If Dunkey says JRPGs are bad then they're bad. End of story.

>everyone should know what pogo is since they're 3yo and without any explanation

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>finally beat nigsage sly
give me tips on 4th pantheon vros

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And where exactly do you encounter these people?

how can a AAA developer realistically develop a good game when they have to make it for people like that?

Yea Forums? Youtube? Forums? The internet as a whole? In real life when talking to people that usually consume internet and E-celeb media?

because AAA games are made specifically for them

This is part of the youtube-review/friend thingy.
People watch youtubers review and criticize stuff, movies and games being the most popular, and they form their opinions around them. There really is a kind of "I'm not sure what to think about X before I've watched what Y says about it" mentality among a lot of people. They can't form opinions of their own, since it's easier to get them from their "friends" on youtube. Then they get to appear something smart by repeating it and they know they won't be alone.

I'm at the same point with this game, bro.

I just got the Desolate Dive (I think that's what it's called.) And I'm finding myself landing up in zones with all these time sink agility puzzles, entire areas that require a backtrack to get out of because there are no fast travel hubs and I'm missing what I think is the double jump and I feel like I'm progressing in the wrong way.

This is after coming out of the excellent Bloodstained game, completing that game 100%. I like the atmosphere but damn it, Hollow Knight feels like a fucking slog in comparison.

Nah, this rarely ever happens. I think you're overexaggerating it.

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dishonest game design

Once you reach the end and lose, train in the boss select room.
You don't need to beat Him for you to unlock his match in the statue room.
Also, jump a lot. And watch out for the focus.

But that's exactly what I love about the game, actual exploration, no guide at all, feels genuine.

It's a game where you're expected to enjoy exploration. Not even all that difficult exploration. It assumes you'll be interested in the characters and the lore. If you're not that's fine, but shitting on a metroidvania for having backtracking and exploring is like shitting on an FPS for having guns.

Not that user but thought I'd drop in to say you're a fag and he's right. There are lots (and I mean lots) of people who consciously and actively get their opinions from "game analysis" vids without playing the game, and even more people whose opinions are affected unconsciously by those people's opinions

Do threads need thumbnails like YouTube videos now?

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Howdy

Howdy

Look at this fucking thread right now. Look at every single Hollow Knight thread the past few months.

>Heh, this game is OVERRATED guys!
>No Jesus please no, just go awa-
>Yeah, this game is a ONIONS BOY ART STYLE
>Please fuck off and go awa-
>OH WHAT, I'M NOT ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE YOUR LITTLE BETA MALE INDIE GAME?
>No you can criticize it, but we just want to discuss the game in a civil manne-
>HOLLOW KNIGHTFAGS BTFO! DAB ON THEIR CORPSE! PRESS D TO DAB ON HOLLOW NIGGERS! LOOK AT HOW EMPTY THIS GAME IS! WHY DOESN'T IT HOLD YOUR HAND LIKE SKYRIM?
>Because it's a Metroidvania. It's not supposed to hold your hand or blatantly tell you where to g-
>METROIDVANIA? MORE LIKE METROIDSTAINONMYPANTSIA! THIS IS BAD GAME DESIGN!
>No it's not. You don't know what you're talking about. Please go awa-
>NUH UH! DUNKEY TOLD ME THAT HOLLOW KNIGHT HAS BAD GAME DESIGN SO THAT MEANS IT'S BAD LOL!

That's been every single thread in a nutshell ever since this game got popular. It's not an exaggeration. We are trapped in the never ending, twisting, screeching nightmare known as post-post modernism, and having genuine enthusiasm towards something is seen as weakness. It's all a matter of stroking your E-dick and showing everyone how contrarian and "above it all" you are. It's genuinely making my depressed and affecting my outlook on media that I used to enjoy.

I can't play anything now without thinking of that autistic Red Letter Media quote. I can't just like Hollow Knight or I'm a cuck consoomer.

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My gripe isn't the exploration. It's the absolute giant scale of the map and many zones have nothing in them. Not a boss, not worthwhile item, no interesting story or lore and they don't go anywhere.

If I wanted to walk among big desolate, redundant but 'atmospheric' areas devoid of challenge and substance, I'd play BoTW.

>obsessed with meme theories: The Post.

People who watch game analysis videos have usually either played the game or games of the franchise/ genre.
Analysis implies the video is very long in its nature, so people don't watch these unless they want to validate the opinion they already have.
If we're talking game reviews, people usually want to watch a game review to decide whether a game is worth playing or not without having to play it for yourself. I think that much is self-explanatory.
Yeah, but Yea Forums doesn't represent normalfags. People on this website are a special kind of retarded that can't be compared to any other community outside of chans.

Yea Forums isn't really a place to have actual in-depth discussions about games, dude. It's just a meme site for teenagers, think of Yea Forums as being adjacent to stuff like ifunny and /r/dankmemes.

There are other imageboards where people actually effortpost, writing paragraphs discussing game design. Unfortunately I can't name them because this website will automatically ban me for typing their names :^)

Imagine having teeth like that holy shit
Anytime someone speaks to me, and their bottom row of teeth look like a picket fence, I just mentally disregard them

user, you do know Yea Forums is known for shitposting, right? And that this was the case even before jewtube e-celebs, right?

The game looks like shit

if you don't like it, make better arguments

>I'm not mad at the exploration, I'm mad when I get too much to explore!
>If a game doesn't forcefeed me lore through text, it doesn't count
So you're mad at the exploration then.

8gag is a shithole and you know it tho

>many zones have nothing in them
Any example=?, the only one I can think of is the blue lake, but it serves as a lore explanation of why is always raining in the city of tears, also as a passage between crossroads and resting grounds, and you have the last encounter with Quirrel there.
I can't think of any other empty zone.

I think you people greatly underestimate how much influence Yea Forums has on normies and their opinions.

nigga u blind (that or you didn't even pass the first area lmao)

What kind of fucking planet do you live in where the majority of people hate Zelda and JRPGs?
Can't you just argue without making shit up for the sake of it?

>Unfortunately I can't name them because this website will automatically ban me for typing their names :^)
If you're talking about reddit then: No
Reddit has another problem and thats constantly walking on eggshells, although Yea Forums videogame discussion is rare, when it happens, its pretty good becouse its more relaxed and you can actually put into words what you think instead of censoring yourself every other word becouse you don't want to be downvoted or banned

Reddit is a link aggregator, not an imageboard. He is probably referring to 8 and wizard.

The style is bad

>nu-gamers claim to love discoverability
>hate having to discover game mechanics

>wizard
never heard about it

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also shit like lain, 420, etc.

4gag is for kids tbqh famalam

Holy shit we have completely opposing opinions. I took my time and played both games long enough to get the true endings, but I thought Bloodstained was an antiquated mess compared to HK. Most of the bosses were bland, the music was largely forgettable, the platforming was basic and unchallenging aside from the library area, and the final boss was shiiiiiit. Of course it doesn't help that I have the Switch version that looks like shit and is borderline unplayable in the final area with how many visual bugs flash across the screen, but even aside from that I thought Aria of Sorrows was a much better game by comparison. I feel like the lack of quick-traversal options until the very end of the game really hurts BS's flow, making it feel more like a game out of the 90's when stacked against it's current contemporaries.

Meanwhile I felt like HK's world was full of soul, gorgeous areas like Green Path and the City of Tears, incredibly cool and difficult bosses, challenging platformer sections, and a world that you can absolutely get lost in. The air dash being one of the first powers you get makes traversal feel like a breeze, and the Dark Souls style of storytelling via item blurbs, environmental details and NPC hints actually works wonders when you reach the payoff and learn the truth behind the fallen city. I strongly believe HK is one of the best games in the genre.

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You have to do it in the zone exactly above the mushrooms in order to progress
You literally cannot reach those mushrooms without knowing about the down attack

This and VTMB are both games that are ridiculously unpolished but I love.

>Most of the bosses were bland, the music was largely forgettable,
I did the down attack with the spikes and that's how i got a few caterpillars out, you can also bounce out of enemies

I think this counts as a flawed gem. The game oozes charm with top-notch aesthetic and theming, but some poor game design choices gimp the story and gameplay to the point of being painfully mediocre.

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It's not that you like things it's that you're a bitch about it.

Yeah, that's what upgrades shitposting to just funny to hilarious.

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>I strongly believe HK is one of the best games in the genre.

I love action-adventures in general and Metrovanias in particular, and I couldn't disagree more. Don't get me wrong, HK was a decent game, I put about 40 hours into it and finished it with like 103 or 104 %. But to me it felt incredibly flawed. I think the level design is subpar and the skills you gain as you progress are lackluster, desu. But to each their own.

It would be worthless without an already established audience. And if you try to make a video refuting points these E-celebs make, then they'll just send a lynch mob at you that won't listen to the arguments at all. Dunkey especially is notorious for this.

Absolute nobodies did hour-long videos before just for them to blow up because they put effort into editing their videos and writing their script.

>beat Grimm by tanking hits and spamming max damage spells
>realize there's a stronger version of him I have to beat and I never properly learned how to beat the original
how fucked am I?

It's so true and pathetic.

very, VERY fucked

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good advice user, obviously there are different approaches to the fight but i found staying in the air for as much time as possible and pogo-ing when necessary to be a good strat

>GAME WON'T TELL YOU HAVE TO JUMP+DOWN ATTACK

How do people fail fluency in the only language they speak?

People used to be thoughtful and honest on Yea Forums. That once everyone unanimously decided that caring about things and having actual opinions is gay and the only way to express yourself is through unironic meta irony.

This probably occured around the same time people decided to refer to having actual sincerity in what you say as "effortposting."

no one cares you worthless brain damaged retard
why do you copy comments from reddit you worthless brain damaged retard?it's a troll you retards

I don't go to reddit, how am I supposed to know?

>LOOK I POSTED IT AGAIN

arch.b4k.co/v/search/filename/ dishonest.jpg/

Why do you reply to people that ask for advice/explain something?
Or maybe you just wanted to feel smarter than everyone else so you just replied to them without thinking for a second?

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If you've reached the city of tears and you dislike both the exploration and bosses, you may as well drop the game, since it seems like it's not for you.

no one cares you worthless brain damaged retard
why do you copy comments from reddit you worthless brain damaged retard?

Git gud. Just keep exploring and buy the maps. And as the other user said, at some point the game will start explicitly telling you where to go (but not how to get there).

no one cares you worthless brain damaged retard
why do you copy comments from reddit you worthless brain damaged retard?

t. Redditor pretending to be an user.

Backtracking is so boring, Jesus. And all the places look the same, how am I supposed to know where I am? Art style is bland as hell, looks like a Newgrounds game with a monochrome color palette. It's definitely what you would call a 'Reddit' game.

no one cares you worthless brain damaged retard
why do you copy comments from reddit you worthless brain damaged retard?

I appreciate how dynamic they tried to make your choices feel but the actual gameplay flat out unredeemable

no one cares

Different user but I care, the gameplay is bad and I regret having played in hard mode. Maybe that way I could've used something else besides stealth and pistols.

no one cares

Bump