Can Yea Forums give me its opinions on these two Zelda games without shitposts or blatant fishing for (You)s?

It may be the best iteration but TP just wins it by default, OoT just had too many limitations and they worked pretty damn well with what they had, TP doesn't have an excuse like that and should have more Towns and stuff to do besides the puzzles scather across the land which every zelda has.
In Botw case, they just played it safe and went with the destroyed hyrule and focused on other stuff, TP on the other hand did have potential to do more because it's more closed nature.
Just like at MM, it didn't have too much towns or to explore but it surely has the best worldbuilding(if i think this is the correct word) overall, we can see how affected Termina is, and every zone has different problems.

But she's clearly wearing something which means nudity is still seen as wrong in her culture

Please explain to me what TP's story was about, aside from standard good and evil conflict, and what message the player should take from it

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I know. I just think the picture is cute.

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But the picture is still right in that her tits are exposed

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They're examples of two games that have almost identical gameplay, but still feel very different. I'd say TP has a higher level of polish, but has aged worse. Some of the wolf segments in TP are just not fun, and WW has some sections that drag on (although the remake fixes some of that). But for the most part they're good games.

I like both of them, but the Wii version of TP makes me want to jump out of a window.

The core mechanics are basically the same but the design and layout of objectives are what's wildly different

TP never went anywhere with the unique things that they had
>Twili, a powerful race that were sealed into a forbidden world because of their greed
>Barely anything interesting done about them, besides the dark world which has been done before in the franchise
>Forcing Ganondorf that hard even though the villain was great until it wasn't, probably because zant pre reveal was more menacing that ganondorf ever was in the game.
>Zelda has even less presence than in OoT and WW.and has no personality whatsoever.
>Story is just not good, starts of interesting and then it goes generic, nothing new to be had.

>>Zelda has even less presence than in OoT and WW.and has no personality whatsoever.
Not him but I like TP Zelda. She's just straight up qualified for her job with no PMS bullshit, basically the opposite of BotW Zelda who Yea Forums loves for inexplicable reasons

Zant becoming crazy kinda threw me off. I liked him more before then but we did get Grandpadorf who i like the most.

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I don't mind Zant. At least he has a personality outside of being a mindless pawn of Ganon

Ganondorf fight and all was great but he feels forced when we already had Zant, why even give characterization to a separate villain if it's not going to matter anyway?
Things could be more interesting if ganondorf was working WITH them or if twili were a villain of their own, a race that was so powerful that were sealed (just like ganondorf), now are passive and were "controlled" by the main villain?
We could've have seen two villains working together to achieve a common goal and fight with the two at the end to see who'll get the power, 3 side conflicts are the best
But of course that just my opinion.

TP just has too many things going on, so while it has a lot of interesting ideas, none of them get enough time in the spotlight. The twili should have had some glimpse into their actual society, but all we get is their dungeon and two of them kind of just standing there at the entrance. The ooccoo thing is the same, it's just a dungeon, we don't really interact with their society in any meaningful way, and they inclusion is honestly one of the most baffling things in any zelda game to me, because I cannot for the life of me understand how or why they ended up there, or how on earth they survive.

But I think one of the things the game does well is Zelda. She gets barely any screen time, but in that time we learn everything we need to learn about her character and motivation. She just isn't really that central to the game's story as she's really just a mcguffin, so that's honestly enough, and trying to give her more space would just leave even less for all the other already underdeveloped ideas.

I think it's important that the game make clear why Zant was never qualified to be a king.

That's my point, Twili were just a stepping stone for ganondorf entrance, they didn't matter at all but they made them seem like they were "bad".

I think it's why Midna decides it's best to cut the Twili off from the world of light entirely

>TWW: Prime example of quality over quantity.

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To be fair, the whole point of Zelda's character in BotW is that she's unqualified.

I’ve played Wind Waker a few times while Twilight Princess only once, years ago now. You can find flaws if you dig but both games are fine for what they are.

Yes, but the game fucks up by pretending that she is through other characters saying how wonderful she is.

Does anyone else think it was wasted potential when in Twilight Princess you can talk to animals, yet Epona just has one repeated line?

I would've hoped she'd be more like Navi or the King of the Red Lions, perhaps commented on the current state of affairs, or rumors the other animals have told her.

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The whole narrative of BotW kinda suffers because we get most of it from flashbacks or characters just telling us things. I get what they were going for, but it's a bit hard to care about Zelda and the champions sometimes because the game doesn't let the player connect with them as much as if they had actually been there in the world with them.

>Wind Waker: Wants to be an open world game but doesn't have the technology or development time to pull it off.
>Twilight Princess: Wants to be Ocarina of Time but bigger but doesn't have the design to pull it off.

What I don't like is how much the game tries to tell you without even trying to convey it visually. We are told that Link really likes Zelda yet we see him do absolutely nothing to suggest this.

>WW
Unique style, blatantly unfinished game, decent implementation of items outside their respective dungeons. Sailing isn't as bad as people say it is, the real issue is the actual islands themselves having disappointing rewards and most things being locked away until the late game when you have all the items. King of Red Lions is a dull character, shame Hyrule wasn't fleshed out more. Picking up enemy weapons was a neat idea, nothing more.
>TP
Art style aged like shit, very sluggish beginning, just as tedious as Wind Waker, better dungeon design. Majority of cast is under-developed, ones like Illia are just there for most of the game. New items are neat, but often useless outside their dungeons, some not even working during most combat scenarios. Making all the sword techniques optional was stupid as it resulted in Dark Nuts now being susceptible to just spamming regular attacks.

Twilight Princess would've been way better without the forced melodrama, especially in the beginning hours of the game. Really makes replaying a slog.

Fuck this fucker particularly.

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seeing the whole village terrified and out to kill you when you were a wolf was great though

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Malo is based though

Fun fact: the localization actually makes this ten times worse, because item flavor text in the Japanese version was written as Link's personal notes and sometimes made reference to Zelda or other characters from his perspective. The English version removes this.

I'm aware of this and it's actually what I'm complaining about. I actually like that the localization took out such lazy half-assed writing

russian version is closest to the japanese one
also english localization is the only one that fucked up ganon's backstory
it's supposed to be that he NEVER gave up on reincarnation which is why his body got all fucked up, not that he DID give up on it. if he gave up why the fuck would he come back.

They're competent but kind of boring. They ride a lot on their structures. They hit all the beats, verse-chorus-bridge, but there's not a lot of invention in the moment-to-moment design. Wind Waker's art direction is gorgeous, but while the concept art of Twilight Princess is great the game itself looks muddy and dull more than it is evocative of chiaroscuro contrast. TP in particular was a sign that things were getting sclerotic. Neither are bad games. Link's character model is also a creepy twink in TP and I'll never let that go because it's gotten continually worse.

Wind Waker is charming and visually appealing, but I don't like the gameplay very much as the sailing gets boring for me and I always preferred the land based games because you get more variety in your means of travel. Triforce hunt is meh and I don't care for most of the dungeons so I don't revisit it often. Combat is also kind of meh since it tends to be wait and press A for some moves.
Twilight Princess is my preferred game. Very standard Zelda, but that makes it easy to recommend to some people, as it has good dungeons, combat is a bit more engaging, and I like the world. Graphically it's not as good due to the artstyle, but I don't mind it because I like the gameplay enough and the options you have to get around the world. Pacing gets worse near the end when you have to get Ilia's memory back but picks up afterward. Wolf gameplay has grown on me as I've replayed the game as well. However I'm also biased because it was my first.
Both good games but if given the choice I'm playing Twilight Princess.

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>Link's character model is also a creepy twink in TP and I'll never let that go because it's gotten continually worse.
OoT was the initial offender and SS was the point of no return.

WW tried to do a lot of new things at the wrong time and ended up half-baked
TP plays it way too safe, almost to the point of being predictable

Not that user but TP was about power and corruption

>OoT was the initial offender
It's not like Link was ever very macho. But in OoT there's still sharp angularity to his features (both in the concept art and the character model) that make him look determined. His features have gotten softer with time. Link in TP's art doesn't look too bad, but in the game itself he's quite weird looking.

>Prime example of quality over quantity
This is a joke right? Did you even explore WW's world?

Yes, probably more than any other Zelda world. I truly love it.

And OoT wasn't?

Well yeah, it was, but both games have a different way of executing the idea even with the similarities

WW is quantity over quality. Cutting out 1/3 of the islands would reduce tedium and nothing of value would be lost since rupees litter the ocean at shiny spots.

Exactly which islands would you cut?

Off the top of my head. Hide the fairies away on existing islands to incentivize thorough exploration. The reefs were lazy padding. The rest were either too small or barely had any puzzles. The Islet of Steel is probably my least favorite thanks to the terrible, slow ship 'combat' and laughable enemy ship AI.

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So you're not removing content, you're just compressing it. Nothing is inherently wrong with what's there aside from the optional ship combat. You just want it crammed into other Island while I don't mind wind waker's extra space

>So you're not removing content, you're just compressing it
I'm only moving the Great Fairies. Mother & Child is a glorified cutscene. My issue isn't with the size of the sea, it's the number of grotto tier 'islands' praised as significant extra content when they're empty until the final part of the game, where some are given one trinket to house in an attempt to give them importance.

The reef islands all house charts that inform the player of where to find certain items all over the great sea. They're not insignificant if you're the type who doesn't like to use an online guide but they're not so important that you're forced to do them. It still seems like an exaggeration to call 1/3 of the map useless.

stormwrecked island, because it only exists as a place to talk to the goron trader's boat

that three pillar island sticking out of the ocean that only exists for a beedle shop

>TWW: Prime example of quality over quantity.
What?
>Few dungeons that aren't that amazing, the two dungeons where you're forced to take Medli and the Korok in with you were especially bad
>Most of the inventory is absolutely useless - prime example of adding the Iron Boots and not letting you use them to sink in water, that have pretty much one or two notable uses in the game and the Hookshot that's criminally underused compared to OoT and TP which had you use it for exploration and optional ways to get places
>The overworld is boring as all fuck, nowhere to explore at all - every square on the map has one point of interest on an island with many having no reason to ever return. Prime example of one area being the island which just has a piece of heart on it
I'm not even going to get into combat as it's pretty subjective but jesus. Wind Waker is far from quantity over quality.

I like all the things you said you hated. Simple as that

>prime example of adding the Iron Boots and not letting you use them to sink in water,
The iron boots are the reason people hated the water temple in Ocarina of Time. Their use in Wind Waker makes much more sense to me.

boots were for the underwater stuff that never saw the day of light because it was cut, just like the third temple.

>I like a mostly useless inventory and few dungeons that don't even offer more challenge than Majora's measly 4
More power to you I guess.

I never played a Zelda game for the challenge in my life.I will sacrifice difficulty for a greater sense of adventure every time. it's just nice if it does happen to be.

Using the boots to resist strong gusts of wind and way down springs still seems like a more natural use for them

I wasn't expecting Zelda to be NES tier bullshit, but some ramp up in challenge would be fine. Then again the game was rushed so maybe it was going to get harder. We'll never know...

The tone of the game explicitly implied it was meant to be an easy-going experience. The challenge in Wind Waker lies in exploring and figuring out what you're supposed to do since the game never explicitly tells you where stuff like the ballad of gales and the Fire and Ice arrows are supposed to be gotten from, unless you go out of your way to talk to the fish

Boots its a shit tier item on WW, they are better on TP where at least they have a unique use besides walking sloooowly just like WW, it's not fun to use, neither should exist.

>unless you go out of your way to talk to the fish
not him but I think most people fed the fish every time since you know where you are in the blue void

>WW
shitty empty overworld, poor dungeons considering the lack of them, majority of the world is filler content (quality over quantity my ass), too easy in every aspect, overly cartoony never letting up its bright and colorful tone leading to less variety in environments, blatant padding with the triforce hunt to make up for rushed/cut content. Good music and took some risks

>TP
poor OST, wolf was a mistake, opposite issue of WW with too much dark instead but not as bad since the world isn't confined to an ocean, combat is too easy, didn't take many risks. Dungeons were great and there are a good number of them, the world is dense and has less but more meaningful side content, lots of variety with environments including a full on mechanic for underwater, far less filler than WW despite the bug shit.

Overall, TP is the better game and WW's flaws only shine harder with BotW pretty much fixing nearly everything WW tried to do but failed

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>Using the boots to resist strong gusts of wind
OoT did that with them too.

WWHD is a great remaster of a mediocre game. The Swift Sail is a brilliant addition, the Triforce quest is much more bearable, and of course Hero Mode rebalances health management to how it should be by default but the main quest at large is still filled with mediocre dungeons and tedious overworld inbetweens. At least the sailing is much more engaging so the game's best quality shines brighter. Also, something about lighting changes but I couldn't care less.

TPHD is a mediocre remaster of a great game. It doesn't do as much to fix the bug hunts as WWHD did to fix the Triforce quest and the new content that is there is middling, but the dungeons are still fantastic and the pacing still holds water after the first third. Hero Mode combined with the Ganondorf amiibo does make things a bit more exciting, but the simple AI and non-existent consequences for death still render the game a bit too easy, even if you can actually see the game over screen now. Also, something about lighting changes but I couldn't care less.

>talking about WW
>but what about OoT?

TPHD also fucked up the horse controls.

Based on a lot of the complaints I've seen about Wind Waker, I highly doubt this. Don't confuse Yea Forums with the general public.

>WW's flaws only shine harder with BotW pretty much fixing nearly everything WW tried to do but failed
And yet, despite this being true, it's very bizarre to me that I still prefer playing WW. The utter lack of charm and emotion in breath of the wild is really staggering despite how well made it is as a game

Both are mid tier Zeldas at best, I prefer TP between the two

I'm referring to the fact that it makes Twilight Princess come off as an Ocarina of Time knock off. Wind Waker and Majora's Mask had a message that's still unique to the series. You're not going to sell the idea that Twilight Princess is well thought out by saying its message is just a copycat of Ocarina of Time

>WW
>quality over quantity

you fucking what mate? WW has the most bullshit content of the entire series

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Nobody knows what they want from Zelda

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>WWHD is a great remaster of a mediocre game.
>TPHD is a mediocre remaster of a great game.
Guess which one got Aonuma's favor.

>TWW: Prime example of quality over quantity
Did you mean to say the reverse? It's a bunch of fucking nothing
>b-b-b-b-but comfy
Fuck that word, you faggots can find anything comfy
>member superman 64? oh muh feels that was peak comfy kino

>I'm referring to the fact that it makes Twilight Princess come off as an Ocarina of Time knock off.
Only retards think that tho.

actually yea now that I think about it NOBODY DOES KNOW WHAT THEY WANT because Zelda is all about puzzles and mystery and what bigger mystery is a game they didint know they wanted?

I can easily say TP was more well thought out than WW, almost all of the things WW tried to do were heavily flawed. TP was more derivative but it fully committed to what it derived and is a better game as a result. The new thing it tried, the wolf, was what sucked

The one that wasn't outsourced?

BotW, but don't throw out traditional dungeons. Sprinkle them across the overworld. Instead of a giant tree housing a shrine with one puzzle, have a subterranean network with multiple puzzles. Don't gimp enemy variety because you think every enemy needs to wield/drop weapons.

Why is it so incomprehensible to people that someone else enjoyed something they didn't?

Wind Waker needed much more work than TP did. I don't know what Twilight Princess HD failed to do that people would have expected.

>without shitposts or blatant fishing for (You)s?
Reword that as if you aren't a wojakposter if you want a real response

>Why is it so incomprehensible to people that someone else enjoyed something they didn't?
Liking it isn't what's incomprehensible
It's dismissing all criticism because you liked said flaws because you refuse to say anything negative about the game that's incomprehensible.

>I don't know what Twilight Princess HD failed to do that people would have expected.
Hero Mode got fucked thanks to respawning.

DESU if they want breakable weapons, why not just not have the master sword? atleast until the end have it like WW where Link ISNT the hero until he fucking earns the the triforce of courage, remember he was just a kid out to rescue his sister, the whole reason he became Link is being Gannondorf sorta forced it upon him to take the mantle, it could have been fucking anyone with a bit of Hylian blood as he wasnt a full Hylian

>Why is it so incomprehensible to people that someone else enjoyed something they didn't?

because it's a pretty objective thing, a majority of WW's world is inconsequential content marred by a world that's boring to traverse in the first place

Except you still have not debunked the fact that the very message of Twilight Princess is not a rip off of Ocarina of Time.

Playing it safe is not the same as being well thought out. What risks were taken in TP?

But I flat-out admit the game is lacking content, I just said I like the content that is there.

Hero mode has been garbage in every game it's been in. Either do a master quest or fuck off.

Boredom is as subjective as it gets. I have fun sailing between islands. I'm not telling you that you did.

>Playing it safe is not the same as being well thought out
correct, but wherever TP played it safe, it excelled and did a great job. I already said the risk, wolf, and it sucked.

Twilight Princess gets a bad rep for being "too much like OoT", I personally think it wasn't enough like OoT. Whenever people talk about TP they praise the dungeons, dense world, and pacing which were all found in OoT and criticize the wolf/bug stuff which wasn't like OoT. In the same breath, some of these people also say it needed to be less like OoT

>the fact that the very message of Twilight Princess is not a rip off of Ocarina of Time.
It's not a fact retard, and if it was a ripoff of OoT don't you think there would've been less focus on Midna and the Twilight and more on the Ocarina, time travel and the sages?

Hero Mode is a shit thing period.
>no improvements to enemy AI
>still have to sit through the tutorials in every game it's in
>but it's okay because these brain dead enemies do more damage

All of those things are thrown out at the end for your standard Link Zelda and Ganondorf finale

I enjoyed both of them and yet whenever I want to praise them, a lot of sentences will end with some "but" because of shortcomings or annoying shit. Fortunately not annoying enough to make you drop it.
WW had great visuals, but it really wouldn't hurt them to put more details. Sailing for most part was unironically comfy, especially when you were accompanied by your notgirlfriend. By the end of game it got kinda boring. Gotta mention hunt for triforce.
Liked darkish TP look, but there really should've been some areas using different color palletes or be brighter for contrast. Game would look even better without so much fucking bloom, yellow filters and blur. Truly shows sign of time. For some reason had some of best combat, it felt tight and great.
Overall Id say TP had better dungeons, but some of them were slogs. WW really dropped ball with something like Fire/Ice caverns. Both games could make better work of items they drop on you, but I feel like it was worse in TP.

>I don't know what Twilight Princess HD failed to do that people would have expected.
Making Wolf Link fun to play as. He's still shit, depends entirely on Midna's charge move, learns nothing new, and can't kill downed enemies despite having an easily reusable animation from when you kill Poes. Oh and
>how do we fix the boring tears of light sections?
>remove two
Brilliant

>All of those things are thrown out at the end
They don't, did you not play the end where Link and Midna take on Ganon? Or how the finale cutscene is Link and Zelda saying goodbye to Midna?

>did you not play the end where Link and Midna take on Ganon?
She gets taken out so the truth finale is down to the regular Triforce users.

>Or how the finale cutscene is Link and Zelda saying goodbye to Midna?
Specifically in a way that prevents her or her people of being of any consequence to the series going forward

>Making Wolf Link fun to play as
that would require a complete redesign of the game, not a remaster. Tears of light is in a similar case. What TP needed (and WW as well) was an actual hard mode with reworked enemy behavior and potentially harder dungeon design, not hero mode bullshit which doesn't make the game any harder and just inflates numbers

Did you forget the part where Midna only helps you with the second phase while Puppet Zelda, Dorf on horseback, and the sword duel could have been in any other Zelda game? You know, because she gets "killed" off partway for cheap drama?

Nah, it fixes the health economy in Zelda. AI does need touching up, but it's asinine to suggest that the ability to find a heart almost anywhere after taking damage doesn't contribute to the lack of difficulty. Hero Mode at the very least suggests a degree of pre-preparation, unless you find a fairy most dungeons aren't gonna drop any hearts and, combined with the damage modifiers, you now have to eat what damage you take unless you brought a potion. This is how Zelda should work by default, this should be the normal difficulty setting, but at least there's a mode that gives it at all. Agreed on the tutorials though, this series is over 30 years old, we can assume someone has played a Zelda game by now.

>still have to sit through the tutorials in every game it's in
>HAVE TO UNLOCK HERO MODE IN THE FIRST PLACE BY BEATING THE MAIN GAME AND THEN DEALING WITH THIS SHIT
FUCK YOU SKYWARD SWORD AND FUCK ANY FAGGOT THAT DEFENDS YOU

I like windwaker more than twilight princess because it’s more colorful and fantastical

>Specifically in a way that prevents her or her people of being of any consequence to the series going forward
Desu did the reason this even happened in the first place was Hyrule botching Ganon's execution and flushing him away.
Don't see how any of this suddenly erases everything that happened up to that point.

>Dorf on horseback
That shit could not be done on anything but TP. OoT's horescombat sucks, but seeing WW Dorf summon a sea monster or personal boat would've been the tits.

I had never thought of this before but now I'm sad it's not in the game

WHAT? Is that why I had so much trouble with ganon's castle?

>Don't see how any of this suddenly erases everything that happened up to that point.
The fact that the whole story until then had been about Zant and midna and now neither of them are around

>and now neither of them are around
>he doesn't remember the last scene where Zant severs ties with Ganon

You're right it did but it used it so little that I had honestly forgotten

I'm pretty sure that you can't beat the Shadow Temple without knowing this.

After the fight is over and honestly that scene has never made any sense to me.

Am I supposed to believe it's a coincidence that the sort of people who complain about games being seen as comfy are also the angriest, most unpleasant people to be around?

But he's still there.

I felt almost bad for zant. He looked as if he was autistitacally screeching. His boss theme had that weird beat-up atmosphere. When you threw him into poison or off totem he had looney tunes-tier animations. He just wanted to be respected. Still deserved to be wrecked.

Zant is dead, how can he have any power over Ganondorf?

WW: Feels they spent all their budget in animations stylising the graphics. The game feels like there's too many cut corners and while there's some interesting ideas they are poorly executed; such as hyrule being an ocean with scattered islands.
I'm actually not sure what they could do to make the sailing more interesting for those not into it so even if the dungeons were 10/10 and there was a lot more content it'd still be a flawed game.

TP: It's actually really solid overall, but like WW it has some ideas it tries that are just flawed from the get go and just aren't as enjoyable.
Ironically, you get rid of wolf link and give the game a more memorable OST and it'd actually be one of the better zelda games, I think if it didn't have those two flaws of shitty music and edgy wolf link it might have actually been considered better than OOT by the fanbase. The plots way better at least.

>Feels they spent all their budget in animations stylising the graphics
It can't have been that expensive

>how can he have any power over Ganondorf?
His spirit desu. Ganondorf is already dead at that point, Zant snapping his neck is a finale fuck you.

Its literally a filter there is a spot you can stand in that disables it

Are you talking about the HD version?

Ah correction was thinking of BoTW
nvm then yea no I agree with you then

That's what I thought because Windwaker's graphics were all about maximizing the visual appeal while minimizing the strain on the hardware

where the hell is my switch port? i need a fucking switch port

Same, I doubt it though.

I love WW and hate TP
poop

Probably this year if BOTW 2 isn't ready yet

im hoping so it would be a day one buy for me

Why the fuck did the remakes of both games have to heavily utilize now dead Miiverse features?

wait are they unplayable now?

The Miiverse aspects are. You can't share your pictographs and the chests with stamps in them are just wasting space in Twilight Princess

Too much bloom. I'll stick with the originals.

Twilight Princess had some useless stamp shit. Wind Waker let you share pictographs but you can take them yourself.

ah ok well im sure they can either remove or fix it in switch ports

You would basically have to remove the entire tingle bottle item.

or just fix it so it works in some way with the switch

I don't know why the switch couldn't have its own version of miiverse. Either way I think it would require more effort than Nintendo would be willing to expend to bring them over

its too expensive to moderate and if you let people run wild other people will complain

Well the switch does have the feature of sharing pictures on regular social media but I don't know how you would integrate with that with what was present in the remakes of those games

Turns out we can only last 6 posts