Yeah, I am thinking that immersive sims are back
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??????
you say that like its an actual genre or something.
SOON™
> immersive sims
what
Gloomwood
What do you mean?
you say that like there isn't a very distinct group of games that are identified with that name.
i have lost any and all hope for an immersive sim to be successful after prey and dishonored 2 were financial flops
what makes you think it's a sim? There's only a handful of images on their site.
There is so little to talk about here that it's basically pointless bringing it up.
Dusk was great so I'm sure this will be too
Hopefully. They had one of the Thief 2 designers trying the game and he liked it.
>Gloomwood is a survival-horror first-person shooter based in a haunted Victorian town. Hold your hand-lantern and canesword closely as you navigate foggy cobblestone streets and dark passages. Investigate the source of the townsfolks' curse embedded within the sealed mansion high above the city.
Wow that tells virtually nothing about how the game is actually played
>had one of the Thief 2 designers trying the game
From the producers who saw Shrek
Excuse me?
It's a 20 years old term and the genre contain some of the best games of all time, don't be proud of not understanding it or not wanting to use it.
buddy no one on this website is going to get excited for your game from your artistic posters
you need to show how the game plays for anyone to pay attention, and rightfully so
List some of the games so people know what you;re talking about.
https:/youtube.com/watch?v=_12AZ4ib4fs
>Shotgun is pump action but loads like a break action
I've seen a few clips
>https:/youtube.com
oh no im retarded
>has light gem
Already better that Dishonored.
Thief, Skyrim, early Hitman games
What the fuck is this, Thief with guns?
>Enemies disappear the second you kill them
Forget this.
This board needs to stop using this term. It was coined by Warren Spector in an interview which occurred a few months after the completion of Deus Ex. Even he later said it was a mistake to call it that. Just look at the blanket of games it applies to. These vary widely in gameplay.
Okay, release when?
...
it's not a genre but maybe a subgenre of games
the term makes sense since the games labelled as immersive sims all follow certain design principles
>This board needs to stop using this term.
I love this kind of argument because it completely encapsulated the sjw mindset and it's need to redefine everything to force their vision of the world. Language is not allowed to evolve naturally. They are the arbitors of what is correct and incorrect. This need to change things that people have been fine with for years for no good reason. I'm not saying you're an sjw, but you talk like one.
lurk more
they mean thief-like
This. We don't need to change the genre name, people just need to stop being newfags and get with the program.
>first-person shooter
>that tells virtually nothing about how the game is actually played
Based retard
>dude gets locked up in cell
>buddy is right in the next room
>just stays quet and stands still
Video game AI in 2020. Amazing. We've made so much progress since the 1980s.
Your game is fucking garbage. Go shill somewhere else.
Reminds me of Thief. What's it about? Just the generic quake/doom ripoff?
Why are schizos this aggressive?
They don't take their meds.
Ultima Underworld 1/2, System Shock 1/2, Thief 1/2, Deus Ex.
At some point people have to stop asking the question right? I don't know how many new people this board gets, but the genre is literally those four games plus their sequels, which are well known games, yet people just ask over and over again like it's a hard thing to figure out.
I can only sense true underlying anger behind this post.
What makes these games sim anyways? I mean I get what you mean now but like...where is the simulation?
Go away.
It's simulating an immersive game :^)
They aren’t sims in the way a flight sim is, only insofar that the goal of an immersive sim is to make you feel like you are truly in the world and have freedom to do what you want. It’s an outdated term but it is pretty set in stone for the type of game it’s associated with. Thief, Deus Ex, System Shock are the classic examples.
>you say that like there isn't a very distinct group of games that are identified with that name.
because there isn't
Why isn't Silent Hill considered an immersive sim? I was pretty immersed in it.
wow
its literally nothing that adds to the gameplay
*flosses*
Holy shit this looks absolutely trash
Because there is only a set way to progress with no player expression. I guess a better way to describe the genre is a game that allows you to go about your objectives in a multitude of ways while also having an immersive world through environmental storytelling/heavy focus on narrative. They are usually characterized by having a semi-open world with RPG elements.
STALKER SoC was the last good immersive sim, prove me wrong.
if you're gonna shill your game here at least do it right
so it actually doesn't describe a genre
>walking around in 1st person and throwing things isn't gameplay
What is it then?
>le immersive sim
never said it isn't gameplay
just gameplay that literally adds nothing of value to the gameplay
>Skyrim
so just Thief but with guns? ok
>two games by the same devs
Yeah, it must be immersive sims are dead forever and not that Arkane fucked up Dishonored 2 and that nobody asked for Prey.
Prey was good
It's retard talk for first person rpgs.
how many immersive sims came out in the last gen?
It's a term used by retards because they think is sounds cool. It means the game is first person and you can use a light switch or something similar.
There aren't a shitload of them to begin with, which is kind of my point. Bioshock was hugely popular and got a great sequel, and Human Revolution was great. A few solid games each gen is perfectly fine by me.
>Bioshock
>HR
both trash
It means you can flush a toilet.
>or something similar
If you hated both of those then you probably haven't liked any game in this genre since DX, huh?
Yes, this is a serious argument that I am going to entertain. If only more people were so ready to reply defensively on instinct, I've no doubt we would have many engaging and fruitful discussions like this.
VTMB was released 4 years after Deus Ex :)
fucking stupid sounding definition of a decent subgenre
apparently warren spector came up with it and for that he can suck a dick. He sounded like a freeloader even during the heydays of Looking Glass and Ion Storm, similarly to Ken Levine
It was the QA lead, I'm pretty sure.
He did a good job testing it but little else.
Isn't vanilla VTMB pretty bad?
Not as bad as Bioshock and HR.
They are physically unable of lying.
Can you qrd it for me?
So, Dishonored?
>Bioshock was hugely popular and got a great sequel
look up who dev'd the sequel
there's a reason i mentioned arcane games when talking about good immersive sims
This is Gloomwood, a Victorian survival horror and immersive sim.
Wander the fog.
dishonored and nuprey count yes
Why the fuck does it look like it came out 22 years ago
What about Arx Fatalis
so it's an FPS with some degree of RPG elements? cool
I guess the TES games are immersive sims as long as you don't play them in 3rd person view.
because it's an immersive sim you retard, can you not read?
walking is hard
lmao what's immersive about shitty textures?
>immersive sims
It's a buzzword user leant from a """"game desing"""""" youtube channel.
no, it's a buzzword taking straight from the devs mouth.
Immersive sims are a niche genre that never sells in millions and advanced graphics are a waste. Had Prey had 2002 graphics it would of been a financial success. Also graphics don't matter, aesthetics are king. Also graphical fidelity ruined gaming.
I prefer shitty graphics, your mind just sorts of fills in the details. Plus it makes it easier for the community to make their own maps and levels which is always a plus.
>Thief
>System Shock 1
>RPGs
ok brainlet
deus ex, thief, system shock
That's a little too retro even for me
Also imsim just means Bioshocklike these days
Immersive sim is a buzzword because the genre is supposed to characterize the gameplay, the definitive feature of any videogame, while all of those supposed "immersive sims" actually belong to a bunch of other genres of videogames. Inducing a feeling of immersion or otherwise possessing immersive features is largely subjective and has nothing to do with actual gameplay, ergo it is not a proper genre and merely a characteristic, garnish to the main course if you will.
Thief is a stealth game. System Shock and Bioshock are shooters with RPG elements. Deus Ex is a nonlinear shooter with even heavier RPG elements. None of them are quite the same or feature any similar qualities. Some are linear, some are not. Some have RPG elements like dialogue optinos or stats, the others do not.
What next shall be lumped into the list? Dark Messiah of Might & Magic? Fucking Dishonored?
Shit's retarded.
immersive sims are just game without many menus and stuff like interactive vending machines
>people who made Dusk are making Thief lite
>Yea Forums hates it
this place really is shit
Immersive sims aren't efined by their aesthetic you retard. It looks like shit because it's a cheaply made cashgrab with a very cheap advertisement campaign (you).
>None of them are quite the same or feature any similar qualities
Confirmed for not having played any of them
warren spector coined it you fucking idiot
>What next shall be lumped into the list? Dark Messiah of Might & Magic? Fucking Dishonored?
Yes, both are immersive sims
holy shit, Arkane was involved in B2, did not know that
i picked up deus ex and i have only played liberty island mission. i would consider it a stealth/rpg game
yes
Arkane literally use Immersive Sim to describe their games.
>the guy that made a shitty, dumbed down, cheap version of Quake intended to scalp the wallets of nostalgiafags is now making a shitty, dumbed down, cheap version of Thief intended to scalp the wallets of nostalgiafags
>nobody cares
Imagine my shock.
Dusk is really good
>Also imsim just means Bioshocklike these days
Not really. Prey was closer to SS2 than Bioshock, Dishonored was far closer to Deus Ex and Thief in design than Bioshock, and the Nu-Deus Ex games are far closer to Deus Ex too.
that shotgun sounds horrid
on par with its reloading animation
what's that thing behind the barrel?
It doesn't sound set in stone user it sounds like a defunct term that never accurately described what you wanted it too.
You should come up with a better name than immersive sim because freedom of choice doesn't imply simulation of any kind.
In fact can't you describe the "immersive" and "freedom" part as a "role" you're "playing" in the game?
It's still the term devs use and no amount of autistic pedanticness will change that.
>Bioshocklike
you mean bioshock is a waifusim
Because it is? Different genres are defined by different categories of design. First person shooters are defined by point of view and their main mechanic and yet not all first person games that feature shooting are first person shooters per se, survival games are defined by overarching goal and some of them have guns, some have melee, some have no combat, and they can be set both in medieval or even prehistoric setting or a sci-fi one. There is a distinction between fighting games and beat em ups despite them both having the same main mechanic. Horror games are defined by themes, while RPGs are defined by underlying systems. There is not a single design element by which all genres are defined. Immersive sim is a legitimate genre and it too has distinct characteristics or design elements that all immersive sims have in common despite differences in other aspects of design. Pretending that it's not a genre or not a legitimate term for a distinct kind of video games is peak contrarianism.
Base retard calling out his ass
>would of
See You have a very shallow understanding of "genre"
>the term devs use
Who the fuck cares
Literally who the fuck gives a shit what a dev actually thinks
They aren't gods
Devs are faggots who will misuse and run terms directly into the fucking ground by calling their game "x genre" when its nothing like "x genre".
Yeah?
So you only played tutorial level and probably only once, you don't have a full understanding of what the game is and what it allows you to do.
But you're somewhat right about it being stealth/RPG game (although stealth is not a main mechanics, only a main mechanics). I'd say it's a role playing immersive sim (where role playing is mostly in the character development mechanics and not determining your character's personality and social standing which is there but is quite limited) with stealth and FPS elements. Shit gets complicated because most games mix features from different genres nowadays. Thief also is an immersive sim but it's first and foremost a stealth game, so it's a stealth immersive sim. Dark Messiah would probably be a fighting/brawling immersive sim with light RPG elements. Stalker is sometimes called an immersive sim but I don't consider it to be a full immersive sim, rather an FPS with immersive sim elements.
>although stealth is not a main mechanics, only a main mechanics
Only one of the mechanics*
I would consider a mechanic thats required for certain endings to be a main mechanic, the freedom comes from being able to ignore main mechanics instead of them being enforced.
Yeah, I will definitely listen to you instead of the makers of the game.
Do you mean like game endings? Stealth is not required for any of them. Unless you mean certain outcomes which is only true for first two missions in case of stealth, I think. You can finish the entire game without sneaking once and you can't finish entire game completely stealthily.
You have an interesting point about being able to ignore a main mechanic and I need to think about it. Like you technically could finish Half Life without shooting despite it clearly being an FPS but that's a very distinct way of playing that kinda misses the entire point of the game.
Deus Ex is something different in that it has various game mechanics from different genres and all of them are viable and have their respective uses but none of them is a dominating one unless the player so chooses.
That's the clip, you dolt.
both had Denuvo DRM so I didn't buy them.
Good.
it's a laser-sight
but yeah, thanks for nothing, numbnuts
It's actually a binocular for the man with the world's smallest nose.
>immersive sim
>the body disappears right after it's dead
>you can pick up shotgun shells and bottles, or even interact with predetermined command prompts that open or close doors!!
Yes wew what amazing emergent gameplay, player agency and coherent world they're showing us. It's totally not just reskinned dusk with unnecessary shallow stealth
honestly understandable, as much as i like them denuvo is shite.
i waited until they removed it to buy it
also apparently D2 ran like dogshit, took them a few patches to make it playable
More like you have destructible doors that you can open with a lockpick or a key or destroy them with a rocket launcher but then you get a sword that does a fuckton of damage so you just slice them open, or you use the grenades which are physical objects attached to a wall to climb over the wall by stepping on the grenades and leave the door alone. Then you go to another mission and you have to go to a place and retrieve an item but you just go to the next mission immediately because the train that leads to another mission works always and not only after you complete the objective. Then later you meet an NPC who will later be a bossfight but now is sitting comfy in their apartment so you could go there through 3 different ways and kill than NPC in various different ways but instead you decide to climb some other building using the grenades that I mentioned and you can see the wondow to that NPC's building because that's how the place was designed but you were never meant to climb that byilding because there is no other way to do it than abuse the fact that you can stand on a wall grenade. So you are there and you have a rocket launcher so you shoot it at the window and kill the NPC without even coming near them.
This. The term MMO/MMORPG has been misused so many fucking times.
I don't actually care that much about Dishonored 2 since I only kinda liked the first game. It was Prey that I cared about, especially after they got that VR update and that still has denuvo so I'm not gonna buy it yet.
prey 2005 is my favorite immersive sim
I love how badly you stretched out your post to say doors are destructible, missions don't need to be done in a linear order, and there is bug you can abuse.
Have you tried playing thief, deus ex or ss2?
>In fact can't you describe the "immersive" and "freedom" part as a "role" you're "playing" in the game?
In an RPG you could have an enemy that you could kill woth a sword, woth a bow and an arrow, a magic spell or talk him into becoming a hermit and leaving the city. In an immersive sim you could learn beforehand that he hates goblins and goblins run away from you if you wear a gilded helmet so you buy a fuckton of gilded helmets and form a road with gilded helmets on both sides that leads to a cliff and you lure the goblins so the enemy runs after them and as the goblins are running from him and are scared of gilded helmets they will run straight into the abyss and your enemy after them and he will die from fall damage. He also had an important item that you were supposed to get but you will die if you fall into the abyss so instead you throw rocks into the abyss for the next 6 days until they form a slopy you go down to retrieve the item.
I made it up so don't ask about the game.
It's not that I can't understand where he was coming from, but that just felt excessive.
What I described was actually Deus Ex. Grenade thing is not a bug and castle clinton doesn't have to be done at all.
immersive sim is what happens when you can talk to the monsters in doom and form alliances
Back during the late 90s/early 2000s when the FPS genre started pumping out shooters that weren't over-the-top actionfests (Deus Ex, Thief, System Shock ect) a bunch of pretentious games journalist types decided they wanted to hold those games up on a pedestal by inventing a genre name for them.
They came up with Immersive Sim which was the basically trying to latch on to how a lot of these games had stealth and rpg elements to them and assigning the words "immersive" and "sim" accordingly. They also argued the genre is defined by offering multiple solution to problems though that's flimsy as fuck as well.
Basically it's a poorly worded genre with a flimsy definition and you're less likely to sound like a twat by just saying First Person Stealth or First Person RPG.
Which ironically I don't think you can actually do in any commonly acknowledged "immersive sim".
>Basically it's a poorly worded genre with a flimsy definition and you're less likely to sound like a twat by just saying First Person Stealth or First Person RPG.
yet people are free to use the term metroidvania
>this whole post
what the fuck are you on about ? i've never heard of "immersive sim" and Deus ex was always considered as an RPG, quit trying to found a meaning to your own buzzwords retard
>commonly acknowledged
No games are commonly acknowledged "immersive sims", it's not a real genre. Just a few autists trying to justify their nostalgia.
>say "metroidvania"
>everyone instantly knows what you mean
>say "immersive sim"
>"what the fuck does that mean?"
My post fucking explains why it's bullshit you illiterate retard.
>everyone instantly knows what you mean
wrong. It could either be like metroid or it could be like a castlevania that was also like metroid
The reason you kids don't recognize the term is because it's heavy usage was prevalent long before either of you were conceived.
prey was amazing fuck off
>ITT retards spend hours of their life arguing about why one stupid genre definition is particularly egregious when they are all really that bad
Don't forget the one retard who thinks he's hot shit by pointing out the obvious in the form of a greentext. There's always one.
nah, i'm not illiterate, i just didn't read the last line
or maybe because we are not americans and the game journos in our country had a working brain in their head and decided to not use made up names that don't make sense
Yes! You're so much smarter than that guy, love mom
>another person with poor reading comprehension
I strongly implied I was around back when the term was coined. I still recognise it's a stupid term though.
Completely fucking wrong you absolute retard. It was just a term warren came up with to try to describe his design philosophy, which is now used to describe games that more or less subscribe to that design philosophy.
But it was the games journalist crowd who then jumped on the term and tried to assign it to the FPS stealth/rpgs games of the time. No one uses the term to describe Epic Mickey.
It's unique and mechanically feasible, just unconventional. Probably because the shotgun is folded when not in use.
youtube.com
I don't know about that, but what I know is that immersive sim is used among actual players to refer to a very small number of games which share common designs with Deus Ex that are exclusive to this genre. It's not a fake "pretentious journo term" than FPS was when first person shooter became a thing.
>It's not a fake "pretentious journo term" than FPS was when first person shooter became a thing.
Any more than FPS was*
>texture filtering
These idiots don't know what they're doing.
It was literally only used for looking glass games, that's it. The explanation of the term also came from Warren himself, and not journalists. Then later on the term became loose as fuck and some people started arguing about which games are, or aren't. But the kind of games it described were different enough from traditional FPS to have a use for a term or label. It basically describes a game that tries to be as non-gamey as possible, getting immersion not necessarily through atmosphere only but through game design meaning : meaning high player agency and freedom, high interactivity with the world, world cohesion and possibility of rich emergent gameplay.
You may think it's a useless pretentious term, but it has a genuine use. It's the difference between bioshock and prey 2017. Also stealth fps can lack all the descriptors I just used. It genuinely refers to a somewhat specific game experience.
its shit
"immersive sim" is to first person arpgs what "characater action" is to action games
aka pseud faggotry
imsim is more about design aesthetics than a genre, but people don't recognize that and so they think imsims have to look like System Shock and don't recognize how Alien Isolation or walking sim games relate to imsim
What people forget the context in which the term "immersive sim" was born:
>Conceptually, Deus Ex is a genre-busting game (which really endeared us to the marketing guys) -- part immersive simulation, part role-playing game, part first-person shooter, part adventure game.
>It's an immersive simulation game in that you are made to feel you're actually in the game world with as little as possible getting in the way of the experience of "being there." Ideally, nothing reminds you that you're just playing a game -- not interface, not your character's back-story or capabilities, not game systems, nothing. It's all about how you interact with a relatively complex environment in ways that you find interesting (rather than in ways the developers think are interesting), and in ways that move you closer to accomplishing your goals (not the developers' goals).
So yes, Deus Ex is an RPG, an FPS, and even an adventure game according to Warren Spector. But this shit right here is what makes it an immersive sim in addition to being those other things.
So Skyrim and Red Dead Redemption are immersive sims?
you could definitely argue RDR2 has some imsim aesthetic in it. It just goes to show that imsim doesn't necessarily mean playable or fun to play.
tell me what "would of" means retard
kek
Why the fuck are these games called "immersive sims"? That makes no sense. They're fps games with light RPG elements and open ended level design. There's nothing immersive or sim-y about them, something like Operation Flashpoint should be called an "immersive sim".
can u read the thread please
No
wtf is wrong with you. He even asked politely
>you say that like there isn't a very distinct group of games that are identified with that name
Yes.
>it too has distinct characteristics or design elements
Such as fucking what faggot?
>wrong
Retards don't count.
>the game journos in our country had a working brain in their head and decided to not use made up names that don't make sense
Had...
First person
Nonlinear approach to scenarios
Emphasis on atmosphere
At least the illusion of player agency
Being made by frogs
yeah lmao I'll be playing this and thinking DAM DUDE HOW IMMERSIVE
Ah, so Hunt: Showdown.
>Survival horror
>first personal shooter
If your character is better at handling guns than Heather from SH3, it's not survival horror
No.
>No
So much for your distinct characteristics
maybe a brave journalist should step forward and provide a name for the genre
GO AWAY DAVE >:(
see Arkane pretty frequently refer to their games as Immersive Sims, I'm pretty sure Eidos has referred to their Deus Ex prequels as immersive sims as well.
Thievus Ex.
Deusysthieves
That game was made by Americans. No Spector=not an immersive sim.
Pretty sure Hunt is made by germans.
Then what the FUCK does OP have to do with """immersive""" sims?
The fuck are you asking me for?
"Immersive sims" are just shitty FPS games with tacked on RPG elements.
FPS But Sometimes You Throw Boxes
More like because a youtuber made a video calling them that
And yet not every first-person RPG is an immersive sim.
Following the dev on twitter, Gloomwood is basically trying its best to replicate (and push forward) the depth of the systems that existed in Thief. And Thief is like the prototypical imsim with mechanics that are as deep as an ocean but as broad as a puddle.