"Ret paladins are good! People just don't know how to play them right! wahh wahh minmaxers minmaxers!!!"

they dumpster casters until ZG, when spell hit gear starts existing

It doesn’t matter if its not hard, you have a raid full fo spriests, cat druids and ret paladins and it’s going to take you twice as long to finish

Why are there two rogues?

>never top
lmao! ill roll hunter after i finish my warrior

Hunters are good early on but with every new raid release they get worse. It's mostly their scaling; they don't scale with gear as well as other classes do, so in dungeons and MC they are really good, but in later raids their DPS drops off hard

I think it's counting combat spec VS sub or assn spec

Talents? Gear?

cookiecutter spec

preraid / MC gear

Pre launch days where delluded hybrid shitters were spamming endless posts about warriors dps being dead for some retarded reason were fun.
I hope retards all quited by now.

dagger spec and combat sword spec

literally why the fuck are warriors best at whatever they do? Best tank in classic is prot warrior and now best dps is still a warrior?
Fucking Asmon can now tank as a dps warrior as ret palas are forced to be healers or are out. Yet there are still hordes crying "no changes". There is no justice in the world

ret pallies destroyed faces in TBC

warriors are the slowest and shittiest class to level by a large margin

that's why they are bis tanks and dps at endgame

>wahh wahh muh class balance

Because WoW designers has come from top Everquest raiding guid where their paladin guildmate fucked their moms Irl.

>Yet there are still hordes crying "no changes"
Because that's how class balance works in vanilla, retard. Every class has its own niche, and being the best melee class is Warrior's niche. You wanna see what happens when classes get balanced? Go look at retail where every class is homogenized as fuck and nobody is special anymore, everyone does the same dps / hps and has the same spells and abilities just with different names and colors. ""balance"".

1 spot per raid, buffclass

you still can finish though, thats the point. memespecs are shit but not so shit that something becomes impossible to do.

ok then retard, whats the paladin niche? Besides being a fucking heal slut for warriors

>literally why the fuck are warriors best at whatever they do
A class that is 100% dependent on its gear and taunt. Once you get the gear you get to be that top dps but until you get that gear you get to chill down in kitty druid town with all the other classes with shit for white damage.

Buffs, are you retarded? BoF and dispell carries alliance premades harder than all overpowered horde racials.

Raid full of Shadow Priests would mean the healers could be DPSing a bunch since VE healing would be going all over.

...Until they ran out of Mana since Vampiric Touch isn't a thing yet.

*divine storm + ret mortal strikes you*

>whats the paladin niche? Besides his niche
Heals and buff, you retard. Blizzard's mistake was introducing the ret and proc talents to pretend their game was good.

but yes, paladins are healers. deal with it

Retail trannies, get out
Classic will never be "balanced" or "improved" with your QoL tranny bullshit
Cope seethe and dilate

divine storm is wrath, retard
And in wrath rets start to do damage only in ICC

>only in the FINAL raid of the expansion

ooookaaay

paladins are HEALERS deal with it.
hunters dont know how to play their class yet

No one but retards ever said Paladins are good, except maybe in wotlk where tehy got buffed out of the ass. Ret Pala where always garbage in Classic, and only EXTREMELY good as healer

So why would anyone play anything other than the Warror?

>enh shaman
>one of your top spells has an aggro component AND is increased by your 31 pointer

Attached: 1546927170124.gif (320x240, 1.22M)

They are literally brought in t7/t8 only for mass sacrafice and dispell, you are clueless. In fact TBC ret does more damage on average while also providing utility compared to Wrath ret.
They are still an utility buff class in both xpacks.

At least they can bully shamans.
>drop ground totem
>eats one of the 30 stuns they have
>drop bind totem
>BoF
>HoJ'd
>get stunlocked and auto attacked/sealed/judged to death by special dps boi's Rag hammer
I just wanted to farm Tubers...

Coz they dont have enought skill to level/play one

so every class that has a heal spec must go healer or else they are completely useless and not worth bothering with.
Honestly what kind of jungle monkey came up with this design choice ?

>so every class that has a heal spec must go healer or else they are completely useless and not worth bothering with.
Yes. Seems it only took you 15 years to understand it.

>what kind of jungle monkey came up with this design choice ?
A literal jew.

A genious

>windfury procs
>paladin dies
youtube.com/watch?v=aUBrjGrzBm0

enhance is fine
ideal nightfall monkey, ok without

>"Ret palas were below the tanks in DPS"
Oh no no no no...

wf doesn't proc while stunned

The best vanilla burst damage build is holy shock paladin. That with the right 2-hander can shit on someone in a SoC crit better than any WF crit can.

So am i fucked if i want to stay enhance?

Nightfall on enhance instead of a hunter is a gigantic caster dps loss ^)

>trying to stun an orc

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>so every class that has a heal spec must go healer or else they are completely useless and not worth bothering with.
That's pretty much it. Welcome to Classic. It was the same in Vanilla though, a mate had to fight teeth and nails for a spot as a retpal, and the warriors got the gear before him so he was almost always undergeared.

so get another
no lack of melee groups who want totems

Oh no oh gosh im sorry did i just P U R G E you into fucking uselessness did i really just do that im so sorry

Nah, I would rather run and gear classes which actually do damage

right, like melee hunters

Then go play retail, nigger

>no lack of melee groups who want totems
No lack of melee group who want healers, so you got that covered by your resto shaman. Also , even an off-tank is a better nightfallbot.

1 melee hunter is 800 to 1400 caster dps

You dont have to like the paladins niche. But its their niche. If you dont like it, play a different class.

>like melee hunters
Literally better contribution than enhancement shamans.

they are healers and do decent dps

You sound like a game journalist who is butthurt that the game isnt designed to suit your particular tastes

>rolled a shaman
>thought I could dps because they look like they could

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Everyone, fucking EVERYONE was telling Paladin, Druids, and Shamans this before classic dropped and we got called retail shills who never played and our criticisms were drowned out in stupid ass HOMEposting.
We fucking WARNED you of how bad Vanilla class balance is and you dumb fucks didnt listen.

You're not healing when you're wasting 40% of your time waiting for the GCD from putting down windfury and tranquil air totems. Healing or auto-attacking, a shaman's going to be about as effective at either role before nightfall enters the picture. Opportunity cost's zero. Unless you don't want -20% threat for your melee, or would rather neuter a hunter. But that's just being stupid. Off-tanks, well, they have this tendency to run off to tank things.

>completely missing the point
The resto shaman doesn't carry the nightfall, retard.

>different preferred class
>not being deadset on topping damage charts
>not interested in tanking
>raid composition
>fighting over warrior gear
>utility that other classes have

Bring all warrior dps into a 40 man raid, see how it goes.

R-ret chads we got so cocky...

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No shit, you fucking retard. The resto shaman would be standing with his thumb up his ass, waiting for the GCD as he rotates between totems.

Have you ever played WoW or just shitpost in these thread? Serious question.

Shockadin is fun. Burns through Mana like crazy though.

>so every class that has a heal spec must go healer or else they are completely useless and not worth bothering with

It's almost like this is literally what we warned you about. We told you that class balance in Vanilla was garbage. Healer off-specs in Vanilla are known for being outright rejected in endgame raids. You fucking retards didn't listen and screeched RETAIL SHILLS COPING. Get fucked, retard.

>thought I could dps because they look like they could
Ele shaman is the best dps in the game for like 2.5 seconds. After that it falls off pretty hard but youll always have that 2.5 seconds to wave at ret paladins

>divine storm
>tbc
oh no, its retarded.jpg

>what kind of jungle monkey came up with this design choice ?
Yeah, whoever came up with this sheer fisting of a class design can go fuck themselves.

This is why you don't play paladin in Cucksic, literally a meme

Prot pal can't tank dungeons/raids like a prot war
Ret can't do damage for shit

Thanks for ruining hybrid classes, Jeffrey Tigole Kaplan and Alex Furor Afrasiabi

Have you ever read one sentence without tripping over your own dumb ass?
You want totems. Shamans have totems. You want shamans. Are you with me so far?
The shaman can either cast spells, or hit things. To have both tranquil air and windfury, you have to cycle your totems every 10 seconds. Understand?
Placing totems incurs the GCD. You can not cast spells while waiting for the GCD. You can hit things while waiting for the GCD. You're choosing between a resto shaman healing about 60% of the time, and just standing there for the remainder, and an auto-attacking bot going at it 100% of the time. They're about equal. The opportunity cost is 0. Nightfall makes it good. No other nightfall bot comes as cheap.

>le hybrid tax
>except for warriors though they can be the best at two things :^)
Gee, I wonder what class the devs main.

Tell me about Tigole.
Why does he hates hybrid and palas?

>play holy paladin
>win cloth gear
>mages are bitching

Well go get a fucking priest then

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>I wonder what class the devs main
Its a 15 year old game you stupid cocksucker. AND any concern reasonable people had were drowned out with NO CHANGES NO CHANGES NO CHANGES FUCK RETAIL HOME HOME HOME.

>hybrid tax
Man I fucking hate that Blizzard's term.

>make hybrid classes
>they aren't actually hybrid
>"is because le hybrid tax, not due terrible game design"
The worst part is that drones gobble it.

That doesn't answer my question. Have you ever played WoW? Because they only thing you do is parroting the pserver metagame.

Ask the Jew and the whatever Furor is

wow.gamepedia.com/Jeffrey_Kaplan

wow.gamepedia.com/Alex_Afrasiabi

Paladins in Everquest and WoW hate both Tigole and Furor so much

...

Pserver metagame is retail metagame since all top classic guilds are pserver guilds, tranny

Nor did you ever address anything I said. Difference is, my comments were topical, you question is not. You're deflecting, because you're wrong, and your thin-skinned ass takes the internet too seriously to admit it.

Dab on every single fucking magenigger you see. /spit on them all. Mages are absolute fucking nigger scum. I stand back and watch them get slaughtered by the enemy faction and /laugh while refusing to res them. Cancerous scum.

Holy pally, keep wearing the mages' dresses and make them all seethe. You're a good soul.

>all top classic guilds are pserver guilds, tranny
But all the pservers guilds are tranny guilds. Checkmate Rettidor.

Name bigger niggers than druids

>Suck at everything but blame min maxers (white people) for their shortcomings
>Roll on literally any piece of gear they can wear regardless of spec
>Force corpse runs if a dungeon wipes cause their rez sucks (also their heals suck and haave 3 hours channel times so the wipe was probably their fault)
>Excels in pvp only if they can jump someone from stealth like a typical nigger
>Steals all the resource nodes cause they're niggers

Attached: file.png (480x360, 206K)

as a hpriest i'd rather lose a roll to a hpaladin than a fucking mage

Nah, only 4chin ones which wipe on trash and cant preform

>their only real role is stealing (the enemy flag in WSG)
You can't make this shit up.

>Paladins were meant to have crusader strike that applied a stacking debuff you could consume to do damage with another removed ability giving them something besides just judgment
>Removed because autist tigole wanted all hybrid classes to be shit
>but didn't care that warrior was a hybrid class because to him hybrid meant "could heal"
lmaoing as classic's life. Classic+ when?

I only ever played paladins in WoW, I got late into the game , end of Wrath , paladin is all I ever known , I find them cool. When I heard that in vanilla they had niche spells that made them undead killing machines I thought that was really cool. Being degraded to a health dispenser is not cool

Druids are the most likely to take both Herbalism and Skinning, and for that I hate them. Fucking AH whores. Take a production profession like a respectable human being.

Retail is classic+

>hunter above mage
what...

Except that's clearly not fucking true because even in phase fucking ONE warriors are objectively on top in ST. All you need to do is have a godamn clue when it comes to gearing and you're golden even in dungeon blues. The gap is only going to be blown wide the fuck open once BWL is out, and grow wider in AQ and again in naxx.

You can do minor changes to classic to not make it a warrior dominated game and still have the spirit of the game in tact. It's already dying as is anyway.

>Being degraded to a health dispenser is not cool
Hi, priest main here. Go fuck yourself. Healing is cool as hell. Now how about you take a seat there, junior? I'm gonna take a nice long sip and make everyone in the dungeon wait on me to engage.

Most mages are shitters and hunters are really stong in t1

No you cant

Easily can, unless you want servers being 70% warriors

All I ever want is the content of classic with some class balances and abilities from BC. Also if we could use the new and improved char models and animations in classic that would be cool too

>"drinks faster, healer"
>"n-no"
>"aight guys i can go faster but this healer is slacking"
healfags seething

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I’m actually surprised by the amount of ret paladins on raids right now, haven’t seen a boomkin though

There would never be even 33% warriors since ret and feral shitters are being filtered by warrior leveling pretty hard

They're idiots who a) think that they can "challenge the meta" and be special in raids or b) twitch fanboys

>implying I seethe at having total control over the pace of a clear
Spellcleave zoomies eternally seethe. Go ahead and engage, boys. I'll just sit back here and sip. Oh noooo, why'd you wipe?

Warrior leveling is not difficult, especially after you get ravager. Oh no it takes a little bit of time to get to SM, that's a small portion of the game to dominate the rest

Honest question bros
Unless you are going for a race or world first, do you actually give a fuck if you have a feral Druid, ret paladín or enh shaman on your group or are you just bandwagoing

No one actually raided as Ret in Vanilla, you could spec 20 or 21 points into holy and have more or less everything you needed to spam FoL and cleanse and still have 30 points left to spec into everything you needed from the ret tree to do solo content and pvp.

Anyone got this for 8.2.5 BFA?

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Zoomers dont ahve patience, warrior leveling is definitely hardest of all classes

>Not even lv60, lil zoomer complaining about spell cleave sm groups
You're kicked and I've already got people lined up to heal. Stay mad

I don't want worthless trash specs in my raids.

Play to perfection or don't play

Yes, why would I give loot to classes which do 1/5 of my damage for free?

This is the only tier where hunters were good. They pretty much stop scaling after this

>rogue twice
what specs

>Gear up an actual good class so they become a powerhouse
Or
>Gear up a class so they can be "decent"
Gee whiz I wonder what im gonna choose.

>zoomer
Saying a dying meme doesn't mean that warriors are not easy to level. I can play a hunter and not use a pet, that doesn't mean it's a good way to do it. You have ways to level warriors that are piss easy.

Sword spec and dagger spec you dumb retard.

GUYS!
Imagine this
> classic
> but tbc class balance
Classic+ here I come

You just making up bullshit

>All you need to do is have a godamn clue when it comes to gearing and you're golden even in dungeon blues
Specially when itemization is all over the place and, outside of a few pieces, epic gear are side/downgrades from pre-raid BiS.

Shh, you might piss off private server autists

>implying anyone trusts a retard with party lead
>implying you weren't just replaced with a competent guildie

why are you so upset at being shit? is reality really that triggering for you?

wait, are they saying druid is on par with warlock?

Which one is which?

Is there a rogue spec that isn’t full combat that still does decent in raids? I want to split my time in pvp and pve but don’t want to be ret paladin tier

That's a terrible class balance

Cmon guy, you can figure that one out

>Can find a group within a minute because everybody wants tanks
>Can easily just spam dungeon farm with ravager if you don't want to tank
>Practically every leveling guide takes you along a route where you'll have green quests by level 20-25
You think difficult first third of leveling means that it's difficult overall. It isn't. You're just using unoptimal strategies and complaining.

I'm starting to get the feeling that all the "no change" people are warrior and Mage players

NOOOOOOOO!! Classes must be unviable or the game is bad! #nochanges(except layers and random changes here and there, these are fine)

> first classic sulfuras goes to ret paladin
Minmaxers seething

Swords is probably the higher of the two ATM. The dagger spec is competitive but it gets alot better when rogues have access to stuff in BWL, AQ40 and Naxx.

>sulfuras
>minmaxers
Imagine being this clueless.

Shaman DPS definitely beats out Paladin, but the small sample size let a few tryhard spelladins skew the results.

Just go the dagger build. Its less good than swords right now but itll get better with future phases and it rewards sneaky hit and run from behind bullshit in PvP.
IIRC you take the penultimate skill in Assassination then finish with generic goodstuff in subtelty like bigger backstab damage.

I've never played alliance. how flooded are they with zoomer ret paladins who watch these shit streamers and think it's viable?

Warriors don't give a shit about Sulfuras, retard.

Dungeon leveling is shit without premade group of a good players which dont need to leave after every 3 runs, you are clueless.

More than youd like.

>You have ways to level warriors that are piss easy.
No, you have ways to level warriors that make it *easier* But it's still far and away the class that's the worst as leveling.

I am starting to get feeling that game is infested with retail trannies playing their rawwr OwO whats this erp nelf druid

Holy shit you are retarded

You are just a healer with an armor, deal with it and heal my big dps/tank warrior cock

Paladin DPS isn't supposed to be good on this tier yet. Wait for T2+

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Never seen a ret in my life

I rolled on an rp-pvp server and haven't come across any erp'ers yet. I guess they're out there but sequestered away in small erp friendly guilds. Hell just the other day a larger alliance rp guild kicked out any erp'ers.

Fuck off Tigole

Good to hear

Literally every video, every discussion, and every poster warned everyone that Shaman, Paladins, and Druids would be some variation of healslut in the endgame.

It's literally the exact thing TBC class design focused on changing. You only have yourself to blame for rolling a paladin and expecting to rock fat deeps in the end game. Even Esfand says ret is shit and he's the posterboy of every ret-poster out there.

What changes in T2?

> I...it’s fine, I d...didn’t event want it
Look at this mad

>join a dungeon run
>undead DPS warrior has /train macro'd to his charge

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rank 1 wing clip spam allows that hunter to contribute more dps to the raid than three geared fury warriors.

Just good luck finding any hunter that wants to raid log as a straight support that has less going on than frostbolt spam.

I'm playing War for the 1st time and have been enjoying it a lot.
My only issue is that you HAVE to play as a duo for questing/leveling.
My buddy is a warrior too and we wreck everything together.

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>globals you with bre
Now what?

which is which
bet you cant tell HAHA
it's daggers, idiot

Just the T2 set. It has a set bonus late in the collection that increases Holy damage done, and a DPS paladin goes for holy shock / seal of the crusader and runs spell damage Paladin build. After you get that set, it's all you use, and your damage goes from being bottom tier to about mid tier or more depending on how lucky you get.

Will you ever be a mage? No, but you don't NEED to be a mage, becaues there's about 15 other mages in every run anyways.

>Daggers on top in phase 1
My ass

Damn i miss Everquest 2

>I'm just merely pretending to be retarded!
Fuck off, retard.

Well considering most top end guilds rocked like 9 to 12 of them on private servers (which were harder), they do pretty alright.

>mfw I play in a guild which houses almost all of the top dps in that list

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>Shaman at the bottom

Are we that bad? Is it because stormstrike can't be used because it takes a debuff slot?

> but tbc class balance
You mean at least 5 warlocks and 5 hunters in raid? Did retards that wanted old versions of the game become so disillusioned that now they think TBC had good raid design/class balance?

Shamans are fucking ass at DPS, dont let anyone tell you otherwise

>Are we that bad
YES. FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK, YES. STOP THINKING ALL THOSE VIDEOS SAYING SHAMAN/PALLY/DRUID DPS SUCKED WERE MEMEING. YES YOU ARE THAT BAD.

You need every hybrid class except boomkin in TBC.

>RNG machine that only shines for busting people in PvP every now and then
>are we that bad?
Obviously. Even the retards who try to play retri doesn't bother with shamans, lol

deus vult
is he human?

Warrior is expensive as fuck to play. You go into a dungeon and all your shit is totally broken. Plus needing to constantly update your weapon and gear every few levels. Warrior is an ideal second class. Have a blast as a DPS or healer, return with all your gold to level your Warrior.

Honestly, some of the DPS problems would be solved by lifting the debufs limit. Warlocks would be way better and other classes would increase their DPS (hunters, rogues, etc).

The only major upgrades that actually make a huge difference for Hunters later are their T3 set, and Black Grasp of the Destroyer, both are a long ways off.
Plus once Mages get done with BWL amd switch from Frost to Fire they get to go apeshit

PvP enh shamans is a biggest meme in a whole game. Any class can kite them or stun/disarm and kill them before they can do anything.

>purge
>HoJ
>rebuff
>*autoatks you to death*
Nothin' personell orc

>You need every hybrid class except boomkin in TBC.
>you need a token utility class
Yeah, just like in vanilla. 1 ele shaman to buff a party of warlocks and 1 spriest to be a mana battery for healer party, that's all you NEEDED to progress as a raiding guild. But the original point was "we need TBC class balance" which kinda implies that it is different from vanilla and better than it.

There are so many retadins and fury warriors that I've started assuming their spec: Paladin joins the party -> He's a retard coming to steal my loot. Warrior joins the party -> He's a retard coming to steal my loot and he'll charge to his death every chance he gets. At least the retadins are content standing around OOM while every once in a while remembering to rebuff the party.

Are boomkins that bad? They can give 4 mages 3% spell crit

These are the 2 persons that old Yea Forums would shoot on sight if they ever see them.
youtube.com/watch?v=usKTBNRI0ac
youtube.com/watch?v=joplbRE2X20

keep in mind that When Ghostcrawler took over, class design got better.

Attached: Tigole.png (1600x2509, 229K)

Are ret paladins at least decent or good in BG's??

Why is Rogue written twice?

They are a literal net loss of damage. You bring another mage instead.

how do oomkin stack up against retardins?
rolled one because i was bored of feral, shit's fun

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>Are boomkins that bad?
Yes, they are.
>They can give 4 mages 3% spell crit
Number crunching showed that that 3% spell crit for 4 mages is worse than bringing in another good dps class.
Moonkins are useless and anything else is just a cope.

Yes. We warned you that healer off specs are terrible DPS, but you didn't listen.

Not worth their own mediocre damage.
Nothing jn the game is so hard that you CAN'T bring them but they're worse than just bringing any other caster. A Shadow Priest does more for all the Warlocks in the raid than a Boomkin will do for a caster group with the aura.

I chose to play a hunter. Did I unknowingly level my alt first?

I honestly don't know why people just don't PvP as Elemental. it's just so much more better and satisfying.

You still have a chance if you will meme yourself into a raiding guild. Because the further into the raid tiers you go, the more useless you become. So right now is a good time to make some raid-leading friends.

Sounds sweet. Leveling a prot pally right now but I’m anxious to get into PvP when I hit 60. I’m presuming that set drops from a raid?

>fantasy game
>in fantasy, paladins are tanks that heal
>user complains they have a low dps which has nothing to do with what they are known for
What kind of shit fantasy do you live in user? Why do you play games with classes to begin with?

Hunter is still decent and fun if you raid in the Alliance.

me on the bottom

>>in fantasy, paladins are tanks that heal

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I play horde, what’s the difference? Also yes I am autistic.

i had built one in original WoW. Even snagged the AQ20 staff because other casters only ever showed up to raids and never pvped.

You'll run out of mana too quickly to stack up against mages especially since you'll always be forced to give up your innervate to someone else.

In pvp you can sit in moonkin and moonfire spam warriors and rogues to death because of the crit talent. When ZG comes out and you get the spell power trinket, you'll have some real fun in pvp.

No, it isnt like that at all. Ideal TBC raidcomp is at least 2 sps, since bringing more sps allows healers to heal more and in turn allows to bring less healers, increasing overall dps. Basically you gain free dps slot by bringing 2nd sp to the raid. Needless to say that arcane mages cant dps without sp at all.
It is also good to run multiple elemental shamans untill late t6, and shamans in general since you can chain blood lust hunters/warlocks and melee group with group swaps and fire elemental totem are really strong cooldown.
In SWP you want at least 2 enhance shamans for a same reason, they both provide competitive dps and strong utility.
Only class which is token buff class in TBC is a ret, but rets preform very well in t4/t5 and falls back after that (but not that much).

In vanilla IDEALLY you want exactly 0 elemental 0 enhance 0ret 0chicken 0feral 0sp(discweaving priest does this) 1hunter with nightfall and rest are warroiors/rogues/warlocks/mages. Ret would do about 20% of warrior dps instead of 70%-80% it does in TBC.

>Tell people ad nauseum of Vanilla's terrible class balance
COPE SEETHE RETAILTRANNY WE'RE GOING HOME NO CHANGES
>Warn them that only certain specs/builds are viable if they want to raid and alot of them will be forced into certain playstyles for classes
COPE SEETHE RETAILTRANNY WE'RE GOING HOME NO CHANGES
>Classic hits, raids come out, and all these Enhance Shamans and Ret Paladins find out their spec is dogshit and either have to reroll or put on the healing dress
WTF BLIZZ THIS ISNT FUN. I WANT CLASSIC TBC. I WANT CLASSIC +. IF ENOUGH PEOPLE PUSH BLIZZARD WE CAN GET CLASSIC+ AND EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. COPE SEETHE RETAIL TRANNY

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Oh and forgot to mention that alliance ret is a complete meme and not wort running since no seal of blood ^)

worse is that im playing ret for shits and giggles, and i was one of the few here pushing the "rets are good" just for the laughs, though i leveled up as heal.
But fuck Westfall, im stuck on lvl 47 and most people on the server abused the layering and SM Xp bug to reach 60 fast, most groups are now mage/warlock warriors and priest/druid

also i have 24 days of game time left and i don't have too much shit and patience to start all over again.
I wanted to play mage, but every single asshole running there made one, Tanks are dead at lvling because No one wants to lvl one.

Pservertads and M+ autists pretty much fucked classic in less than a month.

That is because Druids were Ruining everyone's lives in PVP, MAINLY warriors.
Fat preach and Andy ghost explained that shit well.
youtube.com/watch?v=74fmTBRTnDg

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COPE SEETHE RETAILTRANNY WE'RE GOING HOME NO CHANGES

Why do you try to pretend anything that isn't retarded, thus something you can't handle arguing against, is automatically bait? I guess you are somehow smart enough to know how retarded you are?

Shamans barely do anything for you (assuming you mange to get one to buff you), paladins have 3 blessings that are huge on you and, combined with judgements, means you'll never have mana problems.

>lower dps
BAWW YOU'RE NOT CONTRIBUTING YOU'RE SHIT
>higher dps
BAWW YOU'RE OVER-AGGROING YOU'RE SHIT
Fuck any goddamn moron playing the fucking numbers game. Play the fucking game as is and have fun, you goddamn idiots.

Lmao what a stupid fucking meme, warriors level faster than anyone since literally everyone is looking for tanks for their dungeons

@479086236
Because your bait is weak and you don't even deserve a second (you). Go be retarded elsewhere.

t. seething retadin

How about you explain what that looks like

No we dont recruit rets

>non-bait is bait according to my idiot's guide to ignoring people smarter than myself on Yea Forums

Congratulations. You discovered the game isn't actually fun.
You're now in the 99th percentile of Blizzdrones.

You know you can do high DPS without agroing, right? Managing threat is part of the game.

Damn fucked over by the homies. Forced to roll horde on an alliance dominated server and now all of them quit within a month.

Paladins and Shamans are support classes, of course their dps is going to be shit.

Could be worse, at least you can go and gank people in wpvp. Thanks to my friends I'm trapped in a PvE server so there is nothing but raidlogging for me.

wow a 60 second rag kill instead of a 30 second rag kill bummer

I am also on a PvE server because they were scared of PvP

>state in your manual and game that these classes also have tank/dps specs
>is false
>this is somehow good
Blizzdrones and cognitive dissonance, try to name a more iconic duo.

That's why you make your raid 50% cats, 50% shadow priests. Innervate for everyone, the cats constantly shift into bear and taunt-kite everything, the shadows act simultaneously as heal and dps, making the group effectively a 60-man raid. Big brain time.

welp

I'm in Pyrewood EU, we can be friends.

Every server is alliance dominated

Hunters will be top ranged dps until naxx. Their tier 2 set is vital to the raid as it applies a vulnerability that increases all attackers attack power by 450 for 7 seconds.

>tfw the 16 debuffs are just 8 VEs and 8 SWPs

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Dude, warriors need atleast 80% of their BIS gear to start doing consistent good damage. Like half of their gear is leather they have to steal from rogues and look like shit in the process.

If you go for plate only bis warriors will never do as much dmg.

But they are viable?

HOLY SHIT! You're a fucking genius!

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It wasn't designed to end up that way, but the tools that were given to the classes made it the logical conclusion in the hands of the players.

They didn't think "okay these 4 classes will be healers, this and only this class will be tank or dps, then the rest will be dps"

I'm pretty sure Shockadin does better damage than ret. It's just all burst and melts your Mana as much as it melts your target.

Rogue shitter detected.

But they're right, the raids are so easy that you can afford to have a few meme specs. Ret Pally is fun in PvP so you can't blame people for wanting to roll it while also wanting to raid so they can get their BiS gear.

Shockadin is better. It's pretty much the original boomkin that nobody knew about.

>t.
This meaningless bullshit again. Either figure out what it means or stop using this braindead garbage.
>retadin
I'm sorry you can't have fun in a videogame and need everything to be fucking perfect numbers game. How about you go play fucking DOTA2 instead, the perfect example of a fucking numbers game where everyone is expected to perform flawlessly even as a noob or get banned from the game forever?

LONDON

I was about to be one of those zoomers but my computer bricked before I hit level 20. I've finally got my new one assembled this week and I'm going to reroll as Warrior.

I'm playing warrior and I'm having fun

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>my spec isn't top tier dps in raids (1% of content) wtf blizzard we need classic+
cringe
gb2 retail

If you leveled anything other than Warrior, Priest or Mage you leveled an alt. Even worse cause Mages are the best farming class and therefore make the best alts in addition to the best DPS main.

Don't forget rogue

They've been demoted to meme status sadly

Damn best class is meme status

>warriors are the slowest and shittiest class to level by a large margin
I know this is a 2 hour old post but this dumb meme is really annoying. I wish people would stop because retards actually believe this shit now.

I play a warrior it is not the hardest, it's not the most tedious, and it's not the slowest to level. It's really not even remotely as bad as people pretend as long as you're not an idiot. The first 20 levels are the hardest after that it's pretty easy and by the time you are mid 30s it becomes a breeze.

Legitimately paladin and druid are both much worse classes to level than warrior.

>get into a group for a dungeon
>the tank is a paladin
Why are people still doing this?

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Ok, what class is worse to level than a warrior?

>paladin
Safest class to level, but most boring one, efficiency is well above warrior.
>druid
Incredible leveler once level 20, dont need gear, absolute easymode in everything

Because it doesn't matter? The fact you think a paladin tanking a dungeon is a big deal shows that you are the idiot and the retail autist in this situation.
Tanking does not fucking matter until raids. All throughout leveling and even farming 60 dungeons like strat or scholo anyone can tank. A warrior can tank, a druid can tank, a paladin can tank, probably even a shaman if they wanted to. Hell, warriors shouldn't even use a shield if they tank they should just truck with a two hander.
Dungeons are a joke you don't need CC or optimal tanks.

Seething :)

Because paladins are still better tanks for dungeons than warriors

just spec boomkin and heal in raids...noone will notice.

Agree

Reason why I don't post in these threads is because of the people who are like the guy you're replying to - and that's most of the people in these threads.

Have fun and stop giving a shit about what other people do.

...

cringe

Back to discord nigger

Buffs, heals/offheals, BiS Nightfall wielders

That's isn't even the correct general, you retarded redditor.

NO NO NO THATS NOT THE WAY THE TWITCH GUYS DO IT

Esfand is literally bad at the game. Like really bad.

surprised that locks/priests are so low

is this from a sim or a real raid where they can't use their dots?

>pull mob because Paladins have no abilities
>paladin cries as he can’t do anything to get the mob back
No sir, you are the retard

What else can be said? Hybrid tax is somewhat steep in vanilla

based homeposters drowning out doom sayers pre release

And then the mob dies half a second later and it literally does not matter. You are honestly retarded if you think this is a big deal.
You can run a dungeon with NO tank at all and be just fine.
Get over it.

Combat rogues 2nd place, literally CONSTANTLY see people saying how combat is a meme spec and it's garbage and rogues should only go for daggers. Good to see them all btfo

Daggers were shit for a long ass time outside of meme bursting mages with shit reactions.

How do you see that constantly? I have never once seen anyone ever even mention dagger rogues in vanilla let alone pretend it's somehow better than combat. That's just silly and ridiculous, combat is vastly superior to daggers in vanilla.
Combat was always the one and only rogue PvE spec all the way until ICC came out in wotlk.

Lock isn't that good before ZG. Spriest have relatively low DPS and if they are good in your guild your DPS are bad.

It's strange to me that you think the physically strong, melee oriented class is somehow a hybrid just because it's inevitably going to be durable and therefore suited for tanking. It's a byproduct of the classes spread of functions and advantages. If paladins could hold aggro, they'd be good at tanking too and people might even take them for raids

its a bit mean because the overall DPS buff Shaman provides to the melee group isn't accounted for

I see it every day, rogues looking for dal rend runs and seeing people give them shit for it in general/lfg chat, that rogues who go sword are crap rogues and it's a shitty build. Like I said, I see it every day

This. This is also my plan. 20/0/31.

i agree with you. i had a shaman tank SM armory last night with no issues. everything dies so fast nothing matters

t. seething Paladin

what dps will come out on top as the phases go on?

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>be feral
>be only druid in my guild
>bitches want me to tank dungeons
>bitches want my mark
>bitches want my innervate
>bitches want my brez
>gonna get a free tier set even though I'm not healing

So glad I don't play on alliance. Dealing with dps warriors is bad enough, imagine dealing with dps warriors and meme ret.

There is a way to balance the absolute shit specs to not be shit while avoiding homogenization and staying true to the spirit of vanilla.
"No changes" fags have always been retarded.

I'd like to do 30/0/21 as a shaman if I can, but I don't think many people will be willing to not have mana tide totem even if it is just to use less potions.

Well in classic i have seen a DRASTIC jump in the amount of retards playing mage and warrior. I guess rogue is no different.
These were always popular classes but they seem even more populated in classic than even private servers were. Most of them are garbage.
Garbage mages who die 20 times trying to aoe farm.
Garbage warriors who forget to even use battleshout and think rend is their main damage dealer before MS.
Garbage rogues who i guess are retarded enough to think daggers are somehow good and combat sword is somehow bad.

Imagine trying to play a game that is 15 years old and still being this uneducated.

no shit nightfall's good, no one is disputing that, you clueless retard
the argument was about the opportunity cost of having different classes be a nightfall monkey

Lol i play a warrior. You are a low IQ mongo. Get over it.

>every class has its own niche
>but I won't take any of them because I want more DPS
>lfm mages, rogues, and warrior dps don't ask if you aren't one of those classes!!!

>all ele/balance really need is to be able to last long in fights without going oom
>NO CHANGES! THERE IS NO WAY TO BALANCE THEM THEY ARE FINE AS THEY ARE!!!

Ele/balance need a way to regain mana.
Retri needs crusader strike.
Now three specs are actually good and can deal damage.

Isn't sub dagger spec like the end all be all pvp spec, capable of oneshotting in ideal circumstances?

End all be all pvp spec? Absolutely not.
Capable of oneshotting in select circumstances? Maybe.

Sub with swords/maces is the be all end all pvp spec. You play it same way as combat really just with hemo instead of sinister strike.

To be fair it took a while for Warriors to catch on as DPS. Until post BWL they regularly didn't out DPS other classes. I can't remember if it was just the gear or people were figuring out how to do it.

>There is a way
>Blizzard will achieve it if given the chance to try
These two statements are completely unrelated.

Ravager is so fucking shit I can't believe people think its good for anything outside of dungeon farming.

Tigole's the lead designer on overwatch now though

oh noooo mr shaman please dont purge my 5 mana cost seal, anything but that

If you are interested mainly in PvE and don't want to play a warrior, mage, or priest (or a warlock or rogue if you don't mind being looked down upon) then play retail.

>if you don't want to tank
No one wants a warrior that won't tank just because there's not enough tanks. Doesn't matter how much damage his ravager does.

i'd prefer a paladin over a fucking druid.

t. leveling a holy priest spamming dungeons

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this is why BC was the best era of WoW

hybrid dps specs did like 80% of a pure dps damage but brought dank ass buffs.

Is Ele useable in speed clearing?

I want my 11% crit from talents with 200% crit damage and Lightning Bolt scaling 100% from spell dmg modifiers.

Why? They are just as good if not better than warriors for most dungeons, especially early on. The memes are getting to your head.

You should really stop spouting the garbage you hear as truth and actually look into things.

If your encounters are kept short (especially in early raids they're short as long as you have non retarded dps), there are no real mana issues. The problems are elsewhere. Look at what element the main damaging spell of ele shamans is. Is there a curse that increases nature damage and reduces nature resistances? No. Is there a debuff like imp scorch / shadow vuln / winter's chill that increases nature damage? No (except stormstrike). Now you're already +30% behind due to lack of debuffs. Do you have an op talent like ignite? Nope. Do you have even more extra damage from imp shadow bolt? Nope. Same applies to balance except you have a curse.

That's why they're garbage, not because "uh oh they need more mana". Just carry pots and runes with you.

You can just use autoclicker or that shit and even better, you get to brag about clearing the content by doing literally nothing. Like some rogue dude in MoP, nigga went lfr and just stayed in stealth for a whole raid just to show how braindead it is

fury warrior in naxx is top dps afaik

that is the expectation but in 90% of cases druids melt under any kind of pressure. pallys seem to actually know how to tank. they're still not as good as warrs though.

No one fucking says this. Get two decent swords, pop slice and dice, spam sinisters and evicerates on your way to the top of the chart, done and fucking done

Lets just say that the only boomkins I've seen in raids have all been guild leaders.

Do i need any tools for engineering? Like do i need a blacksmithing hammer or flux or anything like that?

Only in low spreed clearings.

>MC was finished by people in greens that weren't even 60
>AAHHHH HOW DARE YOU LET A SHIT SPEC IN MY RAID?!? *snorts* KICK HIM OR I'M LEAVING! GOOD LUCK FINDING ANOTHER MAGE!!!!

Warrior are garbage tanks for leveling too
Druids and paladin are far superior

>youtube.com/watch?v=ja1j7xWpB3w

>Paladin vs Shaman, colorized(2007)

start at 10;20(also 7:15)

>dies to a paladin gank and can't do anything about it
Have fun raiding for the rest of your life, lmao

paladins in classic were never about raw damage, they excelled at enabling other classes by using powerful buffs and invilnerabilities

This. Are the people complaining that Classic is too easy also the ones who number crunch and want everything to be as optimized as possible?

>>MC was finished by optimized min-maxers in dungeon blues that weren't even 60
And the average guild still manage to fail with BiS stuff despise trying to emulate the tryhards. Now imagine if they also bring memespecs. They'll be stuck on MC until phase 6, lol

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This. It's incredibly sad and embarrassing that despite it has been shown and proven that all of leveling is a joke, that dungeons can be aoe'd down with no tank, and that raids can be cleared with people in greens and no resist gear, that still some anons gets triggered over the fact people do dungeons without a warrior tank or people raid and let shit specs tag along.

The raiding part is the most baffling. You have 40 fucking slots for people which is not easy to fill, and the content can be done by half that amount. Why does seeing some scrub play ret get invited really make you sperg out?

I see what you were going for here but that's the paralympics user

imagine being a metaslave parsetranny in a 20 year old game with piss easy content, designed for half of the raid having 1k ping or being afk

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that isn't a raid, you're as much as a ding dong as op
it is simulated theoretical dps, you can check actual logs if you're interested to see what people are pulling on different fights, but you won't get a billion replies for it

Most people don't want to carry you, user. Realizing that is part of becoming an adult.

>get boss to 20% hp
>it just fucking dies

Because you won't be carrying any of the other 38 people either right? Not everyone is perfect and raids were built around that fact. And it's not like good specs don't get carried all the fucking time too because the players are shit.

I don't play a paladin. I'm actually the one carrying your faggot ass and i don't give a shit if there's some dumb ret paladin in my group.

>showing the keyboard turning shitter that is unbreakable
Fuck off with that noob, faggot.

Is this the build I want for starting aoe grinding at level 22?

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>dungeons can be aoe'd down with no tank
Was this never discovered in Vanilla WoW? I don't remember this shit ever going on.

The closest thing I can think of is hobbs saying on one of his streams that he has been doing mass pulls on SM since vanilla.

>So I want plate armor and the best heals in the game, oh and I want to be top dps too and if I don't get all of it the game is bad.
Imagine being this delusional.

>I want plate armor and the best heals in the game, oh and I want to be top dps too
Said nobody, retard.

Blizzard got streamers to play up Ret so that hordes of people will be disappointed enough to look at retail where ret pallies do real dps and play that.

No other reason why 4 to 10 streamers are constantly playing up paladin damage or even shaman.

Horde is full of enhancement shitters who watched unbreakable

I guess they failed since how few people are actually playing Paladins

Ret paladin is for leveling and pvp.

So what's the problem then?

That you can read.

That is retarded. Imagine actually coming up with a ridiculous conspiracy theory that blizzard is in cahoots with streamers and pays them to shill paladins in classic.

The reality is it's a combination old uneducated history and current information getting blended together. Historically most specs are complete trash and literally unusable. As people actually learned how to play the game and time went on it was proven this is not true. While some specs/classes are clearly stronger than others, most specs and classes are more than usable.

In trying to educate more people that more specs are viable in classic than previously realize, some people have been overly exaggerting the strength of some specs. This is one of them, ret is fine and not as bad as people thought, but they're also still mediocre at best and not strong by any means.

>usable
LOL

>classes that can tank, dps and heal at the same time are harder to level than warriors, who can't fight two equal-leveled enemies at once until 30 (if lucky with crits) or 36 (ww/cleave + ss combo)
shut the fuck up you dumb fucking mongrel

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NO CHANGES EXCEPT FOR THE DOZEN THINGS WE ALREADY CHANGED MOST OF WHICH NOBODY WANTED

In what way are they not hybrid classes then? Paladins, shamans and druids all have heals, utility skills and offensive skills, sounds like a hybrid to me.

this

That's esfand. He is trash. He would be bottom dps whether he was a paladin or a rogue or warrior. I don't know how that guy even got semi-famous. I never even heard of him until classic.

OP's picture is more sim data not a retard player's logs. As indicated paladin is still weak but usable. That is unless you are just immensely dense in the head and refuse to accept that raiding in classic is easy and you don't need some 40 man perfect comp.

>i play a warrior and i don't think it's hard
>you play a warrior and cry that you can't kill two mobs
Yeah i'm the mongrel LMAO. Get better?

>YOU DONT NEED TO MINMAX YOU CAN BRING ANYTHING
Okay but why should I bring a ret nigger over one of the thousands of DPS warriors or rogues?

Viable on Twin Emps! Smite Priests too!

classic is not the same balance that actual vanilla was. it is much, much easier due to being on the literal final pre-TBC catchup patch

>using the OP pic as justification

They are useless. The fact you are bringing up the idea that you can bring them when you have the raids on farm status means you know it's useless too.

Trust me, I know the hybrid mentality since I played druid. You insist that you have a place in a raid but you really don't unless you are friends with raid leaders etc.

The raid would be better suited having a pally healer doing more micromanaging with judgements and bringing in a real DPS.

>Raids being easy as an argument for why we should bring meme spec retards

sorry but I'd rather avoid loot drama and honestly it just feels terrible to give amazing items to absolutely useless specs.

y-You're supposed to carry special snowflakes, that's the best part of the game!

try coming up with an argument next time, phoneposting tranny

Why are you toxic user? Rets are usable they add real damage higher than tanks, sometimes a 'real' dps will die in a fight and the living ret paladin will make a contribution then. When you account for the fact that real dps players will die 40 percent of the time, that means rets are more than usable and contributing 40 percent of the time!

>MC was finished by people in greens that weren't even 60
You forgot to mention that those people were super autists from the guilds Apes who have been playing private servers for years and have complete mastery of the game. Those "quest greens" you talk about are often pre raid BiS

MC was cleared in greens by good players, go ahead and try that with your own bad of retards.

Oh no now your oom

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Yeah but you can heal with only 20 - 21 points in Holy and can be the other 30 - 31 in Ret. From there you just switch gear depending on if you’re healing or not.

are rets the afro americans of WoW?

Despite being less than 12 percent of the damage they take over 50 percent of the dps gear?

Every ret paladin should post a picture of their hand, should be humorous.