Who was the target audience for this game?

Me

Bloodborne is nothing like Dark Souls. Bloodborne is just a shallow imitation of Dark Souls.

People with dicks bigger than 6 inches

The PS4 is a shallow imitation of a computer

why is his shirt red? mods, can you make it blue instead, please? this is not ok

people who literally waste their lives on video games and actually feel superior doing so

Red is the color of socialism, America's just weird.

People who wanted a stellar game of the generation. It delivered

You're a shallow imitation of the shit I took just 2 minutes ago

?
None of these games are """deep""" at all, and Bloodborne is the only one made with any craft. That's why it's the highest rated in the series.

Chads and dare I say it... Thads

>Yea Forums is now full of casuals
who would've thought this place would sink so low

Bloodborne is focused on combat, the weakest aspect of Dark Souls. The combat system is fundamentally shit. If you wanted to focus a Dark Souls style game on combat it would need to be totally overhauled.

people who enjoy melee combat instead of pew pew pew.

Ok Mr. Game Designer, send your thoughts to From and Miyazaki, I'm sure they would love your input for Elden Ring

The enemies, level design, bosses, atmosphere, and music are all best-in-series or second best. The game dominates almost every category except silly shit like "build diversity," which is real crap in all the games.

They aren't in the business of making good games, they're in the business of making money. Shit games sell because most people are dumb.

>>artificial difficulty
>>grind
Come on, surely you can do better than that with your bait.

Bloodborne is Lovecraft souls

And you of course are the exception, with your impeccable taste in video games and superior intellect you know what's good, unlike those dirty masses who play nothing but trash

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fedorafags
>k-kino!!
>dude "lore" lmao

>And you of course are the exception
Hardly. I'm not unique at all. If money weren't an issue the quality of games would be much higher. But the lowest common denominator dictates that game designers must lower their standards.

And Bloodborne is lowering the standards? The game that got the most care put into it? The game that doesn't target the masses but a specific group of players who like a challenge? The game that improves on everything that made Dark Souls great?

The people who enjoy the combat side of these games are the lowest common denominator. More refined players realise it is a weakness of the series.

People who browse r/atheism.

Most people play these games for combat because it's fun, if you play for lore or story then you're a try-hard pseudo-intellectual and I can't take your opinions seriously

>Most people play these games for combat because it's fun
It's only fun if you've never played any well designed combat games in your life. Go get good at Virtua Fighter and see if you can still say that the Souls games have good combat.

I don't think a pure fighting game is the same as an action (rpg?) user

Shows how little you know.

Aliens, espers and time travelers.

Aesthetically, it's very "reddit" and "manchild"
>Lovecraft references
>heavy metal aesthetic, epic werewolves and blood and gore
>overly-large, """cool"""" anime weapons that transform
Still a good game though

I don't give a fuck how many games have better combat, I love Souls because it all just nicely comes together, the combat, the RPG elements, the world, the atmosphere, fuck even the story and lore can be interesting even if that's not my thing. Just because a game A does something better than game B doesn't mean it's a better game

Not necessarily the story, but the atmosphere of these games add a lot to the experience for me. It's not the main reason I play them but I definetely wouldn't rate them nearly as high as I do if it weren't for the atmosphere and lore.

>the RPG elements
But we're talking about Bloodborne, what RPG elements?

I don't think the combat is particularly good either but they aren't comparable, fighting games are designed around the combat, it's the main focus. If a fighting game has shit combat it's a dogshit fighting game, if an RPG has shit combat it's probably a bioware game.

>Bloodborne is focused on combat, the weakest aspect of Dark Souls
>weakest aspect of Dark Souls
?
The part that draws the most appeal is the weakest aspect?
In any case Bloodborne took the formula and refined it to fit a different style and it's fucking fantastic. You may not like it but most people did.

Now you're getting desperate

And Bloodborne is primarily focused on combat. That is my issue with it. It places far too much focus on its weakest part.
>The part that draws the most appeal is the weakest aspect?
That is indeed what I have been saying.

World/enemy design and atmosphere are the main focus of Souls games.

>The enemies
Bloodborne is severely lacking in enemy variety
>Level design
Strong in the first half, but in the forest level the quality stumbles and it never fully recovers. The optional levels are terrible. The Nightmare levels are bad.
>music are all best-in-series or second best
A distant second-best, maybe. Nowhere near as good as Demon's Souls' soundtrack.

>World/enemy design
World, yes. Enemy? Not so much.
>atmosphere
Too vague.

You spend most of the game fighting monsters. This has proven engaging and fun enough that they've created a successful franchise purely around this combat. Yet here you are, a random faggot on Yea Forums, claiming it's not the main focus of the game.

Bloodborne has THE MOST enemies aside from Dark Souls 3.
The level quality in all the other games never comes close. The highs in Demon's Souls never come close to Yharnam and the lows in BB never come close to the absolute dogshit in Dark Souls 1.
Demon's is second place because it relies on too many basic looped rhythms that aren't actual songs but more like etudes, not to mention they're not dynamic like Bloodborne's.

this

Dark Souls fans

>Bloodborne has THE MOST enemies aside from Dark Souls 3.
Certainly not in the base game
>The highs in Demon's Souls never come close to Yharnam
Unfortunately, BB offers nothing as genius a 1-3 of Demon's or Sen's Fortress, Undead Burg etc., though the early game levels are indeed very good
>b-basic looped rhythms
Wow you really know what you're talking about when it comes to music

You don't know what makes combat good frankly. Not every game has to be DMC where you're grinding out jump-cancel loops. DMC has shit enemy interplay but excellent offense. Souls games have excellent enemy interplay and shit offense. They emphasize two different things.

FPBP

It has the most enemies in the base game compared to any other game but Dark Souls 3. I don't know why you're trying to move the goalposts here, but it least move them to an argument you can win.
Yharnam is better than all of those areas unfortunately, and the lows never dip into Stonefang/Shrine or the slog that is a good third of Dark Souls 1.
I'm a musician by trade, by thank you for basically giving up and conceding the point.
Anything else?

People who actually like games and don't pretend to like them because they're "trendy" now.

>Unfortunately, BB offers nothing as genius a 1-3 of Demon's or Sen's Fortress, Undead Burg
>Undead Burg
>genuis
More like Undead Bore. Central Yharnam blows that out the water, with better level geometry, bosses, enemy encounters and enemy variety.
Also
>DeS OST
Bunch of midi farts aren't that impressive, though it has a few good tracks.

that makes no sense considering it's filled with gods

these games never needed music, they are 90% of the time just sound effects. The music in these games were thrown in for the bosses and are generic orchestrated boss music. Be honest, do you really remember the song that plays for The Penetrator Boss in Demon's Souls? The only songs that are worth being in the game is the hub music.

people with good taste

>Worst souls game
>Good taste
OHNONONONONONO

This. The "worst" level was the Woods, but even then it was another case of Blighttown in that it had great level design and was essentially a pleb filter.
>offers nothing as genius a 1-3 of Demon's or Sen's Fortress, Undead Burg
There are several levels in BB better than the levels you just listed, lmao.
that's shit souls 2

people who like good games, instead of nintendo movies

I remember most of the songs from Bloodborne because they're memorable. Why are you replying to me with this?

Because this series of games has always had generic boss music thrown in for the sake of it. The fact that you don't remember a near end game boss from the first title shows us that's it's not important.

>A good third of Dark Souls 1
>2 levels being bad somehow makes one third of it bad
No.
Despite the fact you claim you're a "musician" you have bad taste and don't quite know what you're talking about. Yharnam is good, but nowhere near as focused, challenging or good at teaching the player as the Undead Burg.
Bloodborne's reliance on the same three enemies the entire base game is what makes me think it has poor enemy variety. The Nightmare levels throw enough random assets they had made (and struggled to tie together coherently) at you that it might technically bolster the overall amount of enemies, but it doesn't change the fact that most of the game you're fighting the same shit over and over.
>m-midi farts
Yet those "midi farts" are still tonally more subtle, less pulpy and garish than Bloodborne's silly portentous horror orchestra. Almost embarrassing when you think about it

>do you really remember the song that plays for The Penetrator Boss in Demon's Souls?
You really picked one of the worst DeS bosses to ask about. Who doesn't remember HA HAHAHAHA?

youtube.com/watch?v=mIW7Ho4xMa4

>There are several levels in BB better than the levels you just listed, lmao.
Name them. Yharnam, while good, ends up sprawling and porous in the worst ways, as opposed to the tight and focused design yet interconnected design on 1-1 and Undead Burg. The sewer section hurts it deeply.
The very first portion with the street mob and the gattling gun section is peak level design, I would even say that it's as good as the best parts of Dark and Demon's Souls, but the rest of Yharnam brings it down a bit.
The forest is also a great level unfortunately let down by its second half, where they ran out of time and just started copy-pasting snake balls and Resident Evil 4 rip-offs. The mansion is a blatantly unfinished strange mish-mash... I dunno. Bloodborne is a very good but deeply flawed game.

One and done

I'll never forget the Flamelurker's theme or the Adjudicator's. So strangely sad and mournful, it suits the game's tone perfectly. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

me

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I never realized they re-used that song for those bosses, maybe that's the reason I couldn't remember it. But they all blend together in my opinion, but there's nothing wrong with the music in these games is my main point, I don't know why there's a focus on them in the first place.

People who like games.

>Old Yharnam
>Upper Cathedral Ward
>Cainhurst Castle
>Hunter's Nightmare
>Research Hall
>Fishing Hamlet

me apparently

your mom lmao

For the ascended intellectuals like me

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Adults with good taste in video games.

Heterosexuals

litteraly me

There's nothing subtle about a midi cello with no vibrato or a timpani hit that's exactly the same every time. Please, you've no idea what you're talking about.

>You haven't got a clue what you're talking about
I cleared the game only a few weeks ago, yet the only song that I remember are the Tower Knight and Maiden Astraeia themes, it's not a personal attack against the composer, I literally can't remember the boss music when they all sound the same. 90% of the game still has no music so my point stands that these games don't NEED good music or even music at all.

Having no music play when you fight the Ostrava lad has more impact since it's not supposed to be dramatic/epic like the others.

Me

There's nothing generic about dynamic themes recorded by a real orchestra that are Wagner lifts. It's like saying Mars is a generic song. By this metric, all videogame music is shit.

>talk about tonal subtlety
>retard starts talking about fucking cellos
you're a surface level geezer, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to make artistic assessments

When I say generic I mean it more as I've heard the same 'epic orchestra music' in plenty of other games/films before. Even it were unique like you say they are, they exist in an over-saturated genre, making them all seem the same.

>By this metric, all videogame music is shit.

Generic doesn't mean it's shit. It just means it expected 'epic/intimidating' boss music.

Central Yharnam
Cathedral Ward
Research Hall
Forbidden Woods
Fishing Hamlet

>90% of the game still has no music
which is why when there is music it is memorable (see Hypogean Gaol and Ash Lake)

Why does everyone on Yea Forums fail to realize almost everything here that is discussed is subjective?
Taste is a fundamentally subjective thing. That doesn't mean you can't exchange ideas of course but saying shit like "You may not like it but most people did." as if that is an objective testament of the game's quality is so autistic.

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>Name them

Sure thing buddy
>Cainhurst
>Fishing Hamlet
>Mensis
>Old Yharham
>Hemwick lane

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>Old Yarnam
the gatling gun section is genius, yes
>Upper Cathedral Ward
dogshit, a big dark room with wolves and cthulu heads in it
>Cainhurst Castle
terrible. interesting exterior but the interior, where you spend 90% of the time, is filled with the same boring ghost women repeated ad nauseum

the rest are DLC shit, I'm referring to the base game

Just because they were generic in the other games doesn't mean it's the same in Bloodborne
Everyone remembers Ludwig's theme, Gascoigne, Ebrietas, and Martyr Logarius because the music is a massive improvement in style and quality and was recorded with an actual orchestra

Das Übermensch

>the gatling gun section is genius, yes
>he got djura'd
>he forgot about the anor londo archers

I should think you still have dreams ?

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>best part of the game doesn't count
How convenient

>repeated enemies = bad design
fucking lol.

>Mensis
terrible. The Nightmare levels are a low-point of the game. stitched-together random assets.
>Hemwick Lane
passable, nowhere near as good as the earlier levels, with the worst boss in the game

>is filled with the same boring ghost women repeated ad nauseum

boy do I have news for you about dark souls

>stitched-together random assets.
>He complains about that and praises Dark Souls

>play DeS for the first time
>it's just a bunch of corridors like in any other Soulsborne game
DeSfags are absolutely deluded.

>the rest are DLC shit
Nope, Research Hall and Fishing Hamlet were far more interesting and engaging than fucking 1-3 or Undead Bore, the """genius""" levels you mentioned.

Please feel free to explain your point beyond insults and thus make an argument that doesn't stem from taste. I've already made mine:
Music with midi lacks subtlety and dynamics. Certain things like glissando, staccato, and vibrato aren't possible with midi unless you use a mod wheel, and it almost always sounds like shit. Dynamic range dies and you can't do shit like fortepiano/calandro
Go ahead.

people with linearity and shit game complex

>no comfy Bloodborne thread

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mindlessly spamming hard enemies in a big room isn't very good from a design perspective, no
go on. Izalith dragon asses or the tomb of giants? everyone admits those are the low-points of the game. bloodborne fans actually think cainhurst and the upper cathedral ward are good.

All videogame music is derivative.

>bloodborne fans actually think cainhurst and the upper cathedral ward are good.

Yeah because they are
Lost izalith was objectively shit and unfinished

>dogshit
>terrible
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? These aren't the Crystal Caves or Lost Izalith
Funny how you don't mention Cainhurst's excellent level design you just harp on about muh ghost women while ignoring the gargoyles, bloodsuckers, and servants with throwing knives(all of which are unique enemies to this level)

DS2 wants to have a talk to you about build variety

>le tight
>le focused yet interconnected so it's better
Not buying it with your buzzwords, retard. I'll say it again, Central Yharnam has better level geometry, bosses, enemy encounters and enemy variety.

they aren't mindlessly spammed, all i remember from cainhurst were the ghosts placed in ways to ambush you either picking up troll items or when you've turned your back on them. they're also accompanied by those tiny ninja fucks that either attack you at range or get up close, followed by the gargoyles on the rooftops.

comparing this to the literal copypaste dragon asses (which also have no lore reason for being there) just proves how retarded you are

>mindlessly spamming hard enemies in a big room isn't very good from a design perspective
This souls we're talking about here.

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>It's another "Dark Souls shitter is butthurt about bloodborne" thread

epic, my favorite

you haven't played demon's souls son, so don't talk about it
taste is everything to do with it so I'm not going to. again I'm talking about artistic qualities. the pathos in demon's souls music as opposed to the silly overblown pomp of bloodborne's. I'm talking purely in tonal, artistic terms.

I agree, and there's nothing wrong with the music in these games, they do their job well is the point I'm trying to make, but they are memorable (in my opinion, maybe I just have a terrible memory).

>All videogame music is derivative.
Fromsoftware made one awful game that had music that wasn't
youtu.be/WGJbuHUbw8k

But if Demon's Souls had this kind of music it wouldn't make the game any better or worse. It's just not that important in my opinion.

The problem is DS2 has the worst atmosphere, enemies, levels, bosses, etc. It having a metric fuckton if builds doesn't mean shit.

>buzzwords
>proceeds to claim a level has "better geometry"
Yep, he's an idiot

*but they aren't memorable*

only people butthurt in this thread are bloodborne babbies who never played demon's souls

So taste? Very good, stop talking to me amateur.

Level geometry, level design, etc
you get what I mean

That would be Kingdom Hearts and Fortnite

The problem with this is it's just really bad and cacophonous.

pretty embarrassing that an amateur has better artistic sense and taste than someone who thinks he's a "professional", lmao

>Central Yharnam has better level geometry

Ok, how would improve the "geometry of the Undead Burg in Dark Souls. Also what are you trying to describe a different word here? Like layout or enemy placement. Genuinely confused I am.

I played Demon's Souls on release and was a pillar of that community. Bloodborne is easily a better game and I say this as a person that has fondest memories of Demon's Souls.

What gimmicks does Bloodborne do better than Demon's Souls Mr. Piller of the community?

>Ok, how would improve the "geometry of the Undead Burg in Dark Souls.
I don't know, I'm not a videogame dev.
>Like layout or enemy placement.
Both.

>Go get good at Virtua Fighter and see if you can still say that the Souls games have good combat.
What the fuck even is that reasoning? They're two completely different things.

Who says you have better taste? You? I don't argue matter of taste because I can simply claim my taste is better and we simply have to disagree. Demon's Souls soundtrack is boring and repetitive, there you have it. It was also poorly recorded. Prove my taste wrong, go on.
And yes, I do music for a living.

But Demon's Souls is actually an ARPG

People with good taste in vidya

But aren't the levels very similar. Like they both have a over hanging bridge over the entire level as the focal point for the player to reach. What would change exactly? I'm not saying you're wrong btw, clearly something about the level you found annoying that could be improved.

>luna
Is there a more reddit cool tranny name than that?

So is BB, unless you believe ANY souls game is a true RPG. In that case, you are terribly mistaken.

>Why does everyone on Yea Forums fail to realize almost everything here that is discussed is subjective?
This hasn't been true in years. Nowadays everything discussed here is the opposite of what the poster (or the majority) thinks, because contrarianism is the name of every game.

Almost everything from better enemies, to better bosses, to more enemies, to better balance, to better weapons. The game doesn't break down because of ranged or shields like Demon's does. The balance is vastly superior overall without backstab spam and infinites up the ass.
What does Demon's Souls do better? Nothing.

I asked for gimmicks, not polish...

Explain what separates the two that makes one an ARPG and one not.

>Bloodborne has le bad combat because it's not God Hand
Enough with this meme. Can you get your mouth off of Matthewmatosis' cock for one second?

People with good taste in video games

What is a "gimmick" in this context? Does Demon's have better gimmicks?

people who love music are passionate about music that is good. you become annoyed by people who dismiss it by being asinine, like saying it's "boring", it's a comment a child would make. zero insight. that's all I can say on the matter. there are plenty of payed musicians in this world who have bad taste.

Too bad the character-building was completely neutered and your build is basically just the weapon you've chosen, its less appealing and replayable for that reason alone in my opinion

This one always gets me.

You never played music or it least not beyond plucking a few chords before giving up guitar, and it really shows in statement like these. Musicians, over time, don't view music the same way audiophiles and listeners do. To us, it's the action and the playing. When we listen to music, we dissect and analyze... because we know what we're hearing. It's about practice, repetition, understanding, improvement, and the joy of performance. It is more like athletics in this sense; the difference between a spectator watching an athlete and an athlete watching an athlete.
Finally, you don't get to judge anyone's taste and that's really all there is to it. This is why musicians don't talk to lay people about their tastes except to humor them, because they don't even know the inner workings of what they're listening to and that's really the long and short of it. Someone who tries to claim their taste as superior is incredibly arrogant, and not surprisingly that arrogance makes you think you can pinch upstream, but we are operating at different levels:
You at your "taste" and me on a mechanical level.

People who can play with sub 30 fps and massive stutter. It's nearly unplayable. I can't believe sonyfags could put up with this shit. It was as bad as the memes said,

Getting your health cut in half when you die, getting a boss to kill themselves for you, being too nice and freeing a lunatic that will kill vendors in the hub world. Big or little things in Bloodborne that stood out to you that you didn't see in other games.

You didn't answer my question.

>Yea Forums hates Souls now

this board has peaked in contrarianism, didn't think you could do it

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I liked the game but I was fucking awful at it and never improved. Played for 30 hours and I don’t think I made it more than 60% through the game, think I got stuck around that part with the three hunters in the chapel

Well, one of those mechanics is in BB (the Yurt character). Also it has plenty of its own, like a secondary currency, chalices, dynamic lighting and AI changes, etc. I mean, you have to decide which you prefer, but whatever. The only think I miss from Demon's was Old Monk.

Edgelords and Dark Souls fans.

Please. Every Demon's Souls build was basically Smash R1. The combat was neutered in Demon's.

>think I got stuck around that part with the three hunters in the chapel

I got stuck there for a good while aswell. Feels like I scrapped by by being lucky rather then getting better at the game though.

I think you are far too involved and biased about music to be objective about music.

me

>game came out over 4 years ago
>people are still seething

PS4 always wins babby its Kosom not Kos

I'm not a musician at all. I love music, in all its myriad forms, and I love it enough to know that it's very often the case that "musicians" and the musical establishment misunderstand what is important about music. It's why geniuses like Mark Hollis, who had little technical ability but dedicated himself so much to the recording process that he grafted together masterpieces, pass away and barely a solitary music critic gives a shit. Same with cunts like Finnissy. People who deeply love music are different from "musicians"

>all this snoyers bad cope
game is aimed for manchildren, its literally dark souls fedora edition, as if soul games were not edgy enough already

I don't give a fuck, I wasn't the one who was asked in the first place
Every build in BB just ends up something like 40/40/40/40/x/x because there's next to nothing else you can do with the stats. BB is horrendously shallow in its character building and RPG systems in general.

I was hoping you'd explain some of them rather than listing them. But the only one I found in the game was a "madness system". Where if you keep using an item, you can't talk to the NPCs anymore. I think other things change but I'm not sure.

The only reason I bring up gimmicks is since that's what made me play these games in the first place, I don't care for the combat,lore,difficulty,etc. It's not my kind of thing.

people who like video games as more than a yearly installment from their dopamine dispensary

I don't know, I don't quite like Souls' approach to playstyle variety. You have entire sets of weapons that borrow copypasted movesets and designs within their respective classes, most weapons are never used as such and only the couple, most versatile of their class are used. Then you have magic, where offensive ones are simply press X to throw various sized projectiles at different speeds and win without any of the risk. Souls can be bloated with unnecessary shit that most people will never come to use or be useful in the first place.

There's no such thing as music objectivity except for certain timbral qualities and certain things that are usually viewed as universally bad.
This is again a case of you thinking you have access to some secret truth about music. You don't know anything about the music establishment frankly, or musicians. You appreciate music differently, great. That's fine. Critics aren't musicians either. Fantano knows literally nothing about music and describes albums with buzzwords like "ICY STNTHS" to describe air pads, or "SHIMMERING GUITARS" to describe a Twin sound.
You don't understand what's important about music and have never gotten the high of playing a live performance or watched a piece come together. I genuinely pity you for not ever having those raw feelings about music, but at the same time I won't suffer you talking about taste like it matters.

>Shrine
>a low
Imagine being this retarded
4-1 is one of the best levels in the game, you pleb
The only lows in DeS are 4-2, the dragon god and arguably 2-2 and world 5 (but even those had some really great segments as opposed to everything in DS1 after anor londo)

Every build in Demon's is literally 50/50/40 and mash R1 and only R1, except Kat where you loop, and DBS

It's a linear dull grey piece of shit with like 3 enemy types

>most weapons are never used
That's a pretty big assumption to make

Weapons that share movesets/attacks have other variables that make them worth using over others, it gives you some variation on your weapon of choice. Instead of just having 1 straight sword, you have a few with different properties. You have the standard sword, you have one with bleed damage, you have one that deals holy/divine damage, etc.

>but even those had some really great segments as opposed to everything in DS1 after anor londo)
So, two areas? Everything but Duke's Archives and Lost Izalith are reachable before getting the lordvessel. And the DLC obviously, but that's DLC and I don't think anyone would argue its at all bad.

Changing damage multipliers doesn't change how you play the game. How you approach and deal with enemies does not change. All these intricacies you are implying only really matter in one facet of the game which is the PvP/invasions, and that is a highly contentious aspect of the game in that the majority of people playing these games do not take part in, understandably so.

>This is again a case of you thinking you have access to some secret truth about music
It's nothing to do with a "secret truth", cultivating taste and sensibility is something anyone can do
>Fantano knows literally nothing about music and describes albums with buzzwords like "ICY STNTHS" to describe air pads, or "SHIMMERING GUITARS" to describe a Twin sound.
I don't care for this man's videos, but as gay as that sounds at least the man is concerned with music as expression above "hmm this is a cello but it's a synthesised one and doesn't utilise vibrato, that means it's bad".
>You don't understand what's important about music
I absolutely do
>have never gotten the high of playing a live performance
I actually have, Year 9 talent contest. Won it.
>but at the same time I won't suffer you talking about taste like it matters
Taste is all that matters in art. Art with the right philosophy and sensibility will always realise its full potential. E.g., the beauty and pathos of Demon's Souls music compared to the garish horror pulp (but audiophile's wet dream) of Bloodborne.

>ends up sprawling and porous in the worst ways
Imagine being this much of a pleb. Go back to playing your linear shit, imbecile.

>Cainhurst Castle
Seriously now? It's too linear, but I guess it can get a pass. On the other hand
>Old Yharnam
Yeah, no. The part after the cathedral was good (especially when you come upon that one shortcut near the boss arena), but everything before that ranged from mediocre to shit.
>Upper Cathedral Ward
If you don't have the emblem you need to make a detour through the healing church to unlock the rest of the area - because of this and the fact that the area is mostly linear I would exclude it from the list.

Hey my kitty's name is Luna :(

>Taste is all that matters in art. Art with the right philosophy and sensibility will always realise its full potential. E.g., the beauty and pathos of Demon's Souls music compared to the garish horror pulp (but audiophile's wet dream) of Bloodborne.
Circling right back into "my taste is superior because mine is the correct one".

Damn... he's good

Nah, Old Yharnam was pretty good. The Djura section makes up for it.

Why do you think people would care about your tastes?

>Everything but Duke's Archives and Lost Izalith are reachable before getting the lordvessel
Yeah, but that doesn't change the facts. I'm sure people use "post anor londo" as an easier way to describe those areas, instead of naming all of them, since most people do those areas after finishing with Anor Londo.
Duke's Archives is the only post anor londo one which is actually decent.
>DLC
Extremely mediocre. The forest area is empty and horribly made, the town is mid tier and the caves are almost complete shit. The DLC has some god tier bosses, but that's about it. It's crazy how many people think the DLC is good, and even crazier that some think it's better than any of the 3 DS2 DLCs or The Hunter's Nightmare.

>linear
Play the game properly next time, pleb. There's a lot of solid exploration before you get to the cliffs.

>The Djura section makes up for it
No it doesn't. Lore-wise Djura is interesting and makes the area memorable, but that's nowhere near good enough to save the area from horrible linearity and shitty enemy placement pre-cathedral.

Old Yharnam is far from linear and has a lot of verticality. You can even access it through Yahar'gul. It's honestly a good area, but not as good as Cathedral Ward or Central.

I don't care if anyone cares about my taste. I think people should care about their own taste, and try to cultivate it.

You sound like a fucking pseud.
DeS is not subtle, btw, picrel.

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That's a pretty hefty statement next to
>E.g., the beauty and pathos of Demon's Souls music compared to the garish horror pulp (but audiophile's wet dream) of Bloodborne.
Not much to cultivate when you immediately set in stone the only correct answer.

A cello that isn't a cello isn't doing what it's supposed to, is something should be addressed in a classical piece. Just because you haven't the ear to hear it, doesn't mean anything to me and I don't concern myself with it other than reminding you about the cleft between us.

You don't get to judge anyone's taste, and your taste isn't superior. You ironically sound like Fantano or some stuck up critic who's force to bite down on the matter and refuses to accept that they're just another voice parroting their opinion. You're a young man, you're going to have to understand that people won't adhere to your taste: if they did you'd be doing it for a living—but they don't, and you're not doing it for a living.

Demon's Souls is boring an uninteresting to me. Sure, it's subtle, but boring. Bloodborne is a love letter German opera, you just missed the point and never bothered to listen to any. It's an acquired taste, but I suppose you hate Strauss, Wagner, and their later influences like Holst. That's fine, but won't suffer the silly parroting of a listener that fancies himself an authority any longer.

I agree that it's not subtle, just more subtle and tonally varied than Bloodborne's. I've used this term again and again, but some tracks undeniably have pathos. There is something beautiful in the way that Flamelurker is a straight-forward, brutal and aggressive fight, but the music behind it is mournful and slow. Bloodborne's music is mostly exciting cinematic romps

In any case, I hope everyone will agree that the best areas in the game are Central Yharnam and Research Hall.

Not Nincels

People rate research hall best or worst. It's a really divisive level for some reason. I like the atmosphere of it, but the level design is so-so and there's only like 3 enemy types.

>Bloodborne is Lovecraft
Stop it with this meme and go read Lovecraft you brainlet redditor

literally for gentlemen with good taste and high iq.

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it's definitely among the best.The level design is really well done, especially with the additional "dynamic" aspect of it when you reach the top and activate the lever

"Lovecraftian" and "Cyberpunk" have to be the most bullshit labels of the decade.

When it comes to arguments of taste, it's never the person's own superiority or greatness they are arguing for. It's in defense of the greatness of the art. It's totally outside themselves. I am not a musician and there is nothing that is special or great about me, but there is something very special about the music
>Sure, it's subtle, but boring
This is where we'll never see eye-to-eye. I don't see how anyone who has ever really loved art could make such an asinine comment.

*inspired by lovecraft
it does it's own thing

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Just because you love art, doesn't mean that you'll invariably like every possible form of it.

This
>duuuuude tentacles and ancient gods
>literally lovecraft lmao
>duuuuude neon signs and 80's music
>this is so neuromancer amirite fellow runners XD

It worked well for the longest time, but CP2077 pretending that having sunlight is cyberpunk basically threw a wrench in everything.

>Lovecraft
>Calling others a redditor
You have to go back.

>Flamelurker is a straight-forward, brutal and aggressive fight, but the music behind it is mournful and slow.
yawn
Orphan's fight conveyed these emotions far better

Erase Great Ones and every comparison falls apart. There's probably hundreds of games that make allusion to elder beings from outer space doing weird shit on earth.

Certainly not nincels and zoomers like you OP.

>that cheesy choral
absolutely not
one of the better tracks in Bloodborne though, definitely

I avoid nearly every single game marketed as lovecraftian like the plague for this reason.

Arguing from taste as it turns out is idiotic and we can easily turn your statements on themselves and apply them to you. Here, let's quote you and apply your own rules to you:
>"Bloodborne's pulpy and garish silly portentous horror orchestra. Almost embarrassing when you think about it."
And in return I will pretend to be you:
'I don't see how anyone who has ever really loved art could make such an asinine comment.'
Anything else?

You're a gamer if you need deep thought to realize this is just another game for souls fans.

The shit I took earlier today is more lovecraftian than anything Miyazaki did.

You haven't made a single qualitive statement about music that isn't subjective. The other guy is least shits on samples and loops.

I enjoy pew pew pew and I loved playing a mage in Dark Souls, but then Miyazaki made magic worse and worse in every game, and in Bloodborne, there's no magic left at all (frankly, I would take none at all over the humiliation of Dark Souls 3)

that's wrong, the backbone of the lore is clearly inspired by r/K selection theory if you paid attention to the text

You should actually listen to the Bloodborne soundtrack. Omen, Hunter's Dream, Moonlit Melody, and Soothing Hymn are all extremely subtle songs with slight instrumentation.

Those arcane items don't count as magic to you?

>Arguing from taste as it turns out is idiotic
How is arguing for something you genuinely believe to hold merit "idiotic"?

This is Yea Forums, I shitpost like everyone does. But one of the only redeemable things about this site it that people hold strong views on the worth of things and will challenge your own. It's very difficult to put into words artistic value but it's worth doing

It's not meant to be lovecraftian, just inspired
how am I supposed to feel anything for a literal who demon?

trannies and soiboys

Simple:
Because it doesn't hold merit.

No, I'm glad that you understand that.

I understand that you're a retard

Wrong, and the entirety of western civilisation depends on that being wrong

tools are viable, you fucking retard

Why would anyone with a brain read Lovecraft? Literally trash fiction designed to sell to rubes for a nickel. The prose is on par with other period fictions of the time, Agatha Christie mysteries and westerns ala Louis l’amour (I know he came later, I just mean the western genre) except not as well constructed. Unfortunately his collected works don’t include his masterpiece “on the creation of Niggers” which is literally his only worthwhile writing,

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A lot of seethe and salt in this thread.

Because it has been established that your taste isn't worth shit to anyone but you, and if you think Bloodborne is garish then I can think Demon's Souls is boring and we get to agree to disagree while nothing is established. You keep trying to get past this point, but it goes nowhere, and it's the elephant in the room.

Okay:
Prove its merit.

Tools are utter dogshit and the basic soul arrow is practically the last thing you get in the game.

Pretty stupid desu. Examining art is important, in fact art can’t exist without being reflected on, but you’re forgetting the concept of Competence (or expertise, savvy, etc etc). Just because you believe something holds merit, what exactly are your credentials? Why should anyone listen to you? Do you have the slightest clue of what you’re talking about? Anyone retard can have opinions. The actually damage the internet (including Yea Forums) has done is making retards feel like their opinions on things matter in the slightest or should be taken seriously.

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Reading Lovecraft now and you aren't too far off, but he's not that bad. The major problem is most of the works i've read have a good premise but a poor execution. Often too short and not as fleshed out as they should be. However I can see how he inspires others and it's still decent literature.

>”On the Creation of Niggers”
Lovecraft was quite based and redpilled. I wonder how they were created?

Nah, the executioner's glove, blacksky eye, and ACB are all good tools.
But spellcasting in Souls games have always been shit, as I've said here previously.

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What? Souls games are unoptimized as fuck for co-op boss fights, as the bosses go full retard whenever there's more than one person in the arena.

Not him, but art is shit because of the sheer amount of critique and examination

literally every offensive spell in souls is a variation of the basic soul arrow lmao

Gods and demigods able to withstand maximum feels

youtu.be/hLfJWlusT5Y

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>game so good that being reddit's fav does't take anything away from it
Truly the game of the entire generation

>Why yes, I did enjoy Dark Souls 2 a lot more than Bloodborne, how could you tell?

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>executioner's glove
Eats too many bullets for its damage, tends to miss
>blacksky eye
One of the last items obtained in a playthrough, making it useless. Best tool in damage to bullets ratio and still does pretty pathetic damage.
>ACB
Just shit.

Because your gf Photoshops your patato head into a man and you speak in memes

Level design peaked with Dark Souls 2 DLC areas. Only Research Hall from Bloodborne comes close.

This, art is better when it's all just opinions. ""Expertise"" makes people biased.

You’re being really generous Yea Forumsanon. You can give the guy some leeway for being important to the future of people that worked in that genre, but it’s not like he wasn’t inspired by Poe or Machen or dunsany, two of which are a trillion years out of his league and should be read instead. Lovecraft wrote pulp fiction, pure and simple, it shouldn’t even be discussed as actual Literature, just take a gander at who was operating in the same time frame, while he was locking himself in his attic scribbling out hysterical screeds about race mixing and jews, desperately trying to conceal his artistic shortcomings. His work reeks of insecurity. It’s the equivalent of a novella length shit post trying to sound smart, a brain let convinced he has something to say.

>that opening part of Shulva with the archers
>Old Iron King's Memory
>Frigid Outskirts
>peak level design

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To be fair I haven't played The Old Hunters (I played BB on a friend's PS4 and he didn't have the DLC), but the Research hall looks boring as fuck with all those mangoheads as the main enemy.

ahah

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I believe this to, but the concept isn’t wrong. It’s that the standards for what constitutes “expertise” or “competency” have degenerated to literally “I feel this way about X”. The world didn’t need a million kids going to Art school, or majoring in literature, but it happened and now we have what we have.

Frigid Outskirts is just a pleb filter, people who actually appreciate difficulty and clever gimmicks enjoy it immensely.

Optional areas are not canon and don't count.

I meant to (You) this

----------

>Shulva

What's wrong

>OIKM

Can be easily rushed through if you don't wanna kill the knights

>Frigid Outskirts

An actually decent level that people hated because they were too retarded to figure out the gimmick or too close-minded to adapt to something different for the series.

>divisive
Seriously now? Also how can you think that the level design is so-so? Not only is the exploration top tier, but you also have the rotation of the staircase which changes the level completely, and the elevator shortcuts are perfectly made and the pacing of unlocking them is top notch.

me.

>they were too retarded to figure out the gimmick
Just what do you think the gimmick was?

It's not kids in art school. It's kids on the internet. If anything, the kids in art school will be expected to take a art history class to contextualize art analysis.

Research hall has more enemy variety than any other area in the game.
>basic patients
>giant patients
>headless patients
>bodiless heads
>mage patients
>centipedes
>church servants
>NPC hunters
>minigun wheelchairs
>flamethrower wheelchairs
>crows

This is a really weird thing to say desu. How would actual expertise make you biased? Do you mean it would make a person Capable of identifying trash, and that would make you feel some kind of way if a person who’s opinion you trusted didn’t like something you did or refused to recognize it’s worth? There’s a difference between liking and not liking and something and recognizing if something is shit. You can unironically enjoy trash, something shoddy and poorly made. Plenty of very intelligent people love low or “trash” culture. Pynchon loves pro wrestling and limericks. Bob Dylan too loves Pro wrestling. You can enjoy things that you know aren’t high art. Like video games. You just need to be able to differentiate between things.

And I also forgot crawling patients and straightjacket patients. This is ridiculous variety. It's the same amount of enemy types as the rest of the DLC.

They were just more of Dark Souls 2 I don't see how anyone could think they're a massive improvement in quality
It's laughable to even compare them to the Research Hall let alone 90% of Bloodborne's other areas

Quick advance from point A to B and if not possible, dispatch enemy quickly. It tests your reaction time and nothing else, but people were too complacent after getting summons through every boss and area prior.

You're right. They're much better than the Research Hall, even the weakest one (Old Iron King)

Yes, I agree. But too many people in the arts, dilutes everything. You end up with a person specializing in some niche thing, who then rants and raves that it Is of equal value and consideration. This draws people in (usually along cultural, racial and gender lines). Then you get a college professor saying “why is the syllabus filled with old dead white men, we need to do something about this”.

In other words, it's gobshite.

Peak delusion
It's a good level but nothing special while the Research Hall is amazingly designed with the moving staircases, elevators, great enemy variety, and god tier atmosphere

Hyper contrarian DaS2fagging.

>a game having blood makes it Reddit.
Fucking wew.

holy shit Yea Forums on suicide watch

Every Dark Souls 2 DLC level has moving parts, elevators, great enemy variety and better atmosphere than Research Hall.

>great enemy variety
Every Dark Souls 2 DLC has the same enemy varieties, with Poison, Fire, and Ice flavoring.

Men

Just for me. Everyone else is just a consumer who bought it.

all of the DLCs was a boring slog and has nothing on TOH, move on 2tard

What atmosphere?
Shulva is neat but nowhere near as terrifying and oppressive, the Iron Crown tower is boring, and Eleum Loyce is just a frozen city in broad daylight what's special about it?

>people actually defending the frigid outskirts
The absolute state of 2 apologists it's easily the worst level in the game and one of the worst in the entire series

that's pretty gay

What's so special about any Bloodborne area? They're all exactly the same with the exception of Cainhurst, the wood, Hemwick (but it's shit), Nightmare Frontier (supershit) and Fishing Hamlet.

Lies

Yeah, I guess it doesn't have the amazing level made from tilting reused assets

Playing The Order 1886 and Bloodborne back to back is basically like playing the same game desu.

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Socialists are a bunch of soys so it's an accurate shirt.

Still better than any of DS2's boring shit areas
And Research Hall also stands out and it's a candidate for best level in the series trying to be contrarian and cool and claiming otherwise just makes you look retarded

American guys who took a job teaching in Japan because they were a massive weeb, then had a baby with a japanese woman and moved back to the US.
The japanese wife then leaves him, leaving him cucked as a single dad.

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How can Dark Souls be better when Bloodborne vastly improves on nearly every aspect of it?

Bloodborne is far more open than Dark Souls for one. After Amelia you have access to Paarl, Frontier, DLC, most of the Chalices, Castle Cainhurst, Hemwick etc etc. Meanwhile in Shit Souls 1 DLC is only available halfway through the game, and most of the content is sealed off. The combat is also far better in Bloodborne without a doubt. The setting is less cliche and the level design is more varied and open than the branching corridors found throughout Dark Souls. Even Anor Londo, the supposed high point of the game, is just an long corridor filled with copy and pasted mobs. And this bugged mess is supposed to be the best boss in the whole game:

youtube.com/watch?v=veNODfnljjA&app=desktop

So what does Dark Souls offer? Motoi Sakurabas worst piece of work in comparison to the fully orchestrated soundtrack of Bloodborne? The world design, where completely different regions, climates and cultures are separated by an escalator or a locked door?

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Uh, sure. I don't agree about Poe. I think he's bottom barrel tripe and lovecraft, while having faults is far better than him. I'd say that you're a try hard fag at this point. Lovecraft is C tier and Poe is D tier. Poe is trash.

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>How can Dark Souls be better when Bloodborne vastly improves on nearly every aspect of it?

>Bloodborne is far more open than Dark Souls for one.
After you get out of the Asylum, the first boss you kill could be:
>Taurus
>Gargoyles
>Capra
>Sif
>Quelaag
>Pinwheel

You get access to
>Firelink Shrine
>Undead Burg
>Undead Parish
>Lower Undead Burg
>New Londo
>Valley of the Drakes
>Darkroot Garden
>Blighttown
>The Great Hollow
>Ash Lake
>The Catacombs

All without having to kill any boss after the tutorial, which means you have freedom of choice to use any armor and weapons found in any of those areas at the very beginning of your playthrough. Dark Souls 1's approach to world design isn't to be scoffed at.

I'd have trouble being convniced that Bloodborne isn't Lovecraft-inspired. I think this is either bait or you read one thing about how Miyazaki was inspired by something else and you applied it to the whole game for some reason.

You could easily tell the difference between any Bloodborne area. All of them are very detailed.

>source: my ass

Composing a piece is a great feeling.

second half of the forest is very well made, half of the byrgenwerth is in nightmare aka lecturehall.

If people would learn what Weird Horror is, they wouldn't spout "Lovecraftian" every time a cosmic being starts fucking with things.

The most "Lovecraftian" elements of Miyazaki's games are miscegenation and secretive cults.